Of all the things that didn’t happen, this didn’t happen the most
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lol, ‘my friends in the LGB alliance’
The organization that's apparently over 90% old striaght people.
I mean, I'm pretty confident that every LGB person who identifies with the 'LGB Alliance' is anti-trans, because if they weren't, they'd say they identify with the LGBTQ Alliance instead. I just imagine that's a vanishingly small number of people.
I'd believe it if there were gay guys telling her this too. Speaking as a rainbow American I can say there's a lot of fearful gay men who think if we support trans folks it threatens our own respectability with straight people. It's got a lot of overlap with the "I'm gay but I don't like gay culture" and the "why is there leather at a pride parade?!!" demographic
I know that within the lesbian community, there are people who have been really traumatized by men, and I can both feel for them and their desire to not be around people who are AMAB women while still also recognizing that doesn’t describe most lesbians, who are generally more inclusive. It wouldn’t surprise me if the inverse were true in the gay community.
Trans-inclusivity was mentioned as one of the reasons the recent Dyke March was canceled in SF, though an unofficial event happened. https://www.kqed.org/news/11992072/dyke-march-canceled-for-san-francisco-pride-organizers-say
I know that within the lesbian community, there are people who have been really traumatized by men, and I can both feel for them and their desire to not be around people who are AMAB women
I mean "men have traumatized me so I demand to never be in the presence of anyone who was born with a penis even if it's a trans woman" is genuinely a deranged position and that fact that it's at all entertained as legitimate is a sign of transmisogyny. Imagine if someone was raped by a black guy and then decided they didn't want black people in their spaces anymore. Or basically any other marginalized group. Trans women have the right to use those spaces too and you can't weaponize trauma to *cause* trauma.
To be clear, I wasn’t saying it was okay, just that some people really never work through abuse.
Trans people are always welcome in a space where I am.
Yeah but I think you’re making a mistake by considering not having “worked through the abuse” sufficiently to be the operative factor in why people act this way.
In practice it’s the opposite, where preexisting bigotry is being retroactively justified by a past trauma. Given trans women are victimized by men not only just as often as cis women but actually more often according to all available statistics, “A man assaulted me therefore I’m uncomfortable around trans women” is a position that requires an ideological fixation on grouping trans women and cis men as the same category so regardless of trauma this position is the bigoted part.
Like if someone was assaulted and had a fear of men but this person also had a trans sister that they loved and supported, it’s unlikely their fear of men would translate to transmisogny.
My mother was a social worker, and I’ve heard abuse (not always sexual) so horrifying I won’t even tell my husband. It just cannot be unheard, and I’m not sure it’s something someone would (or could) ever move forward from. So I may be more aware of the horrifying than the average person (all of these required surgical intervention, so trauma docs have seen some things.)
Most of the “reasons” given to exclude trans people from spaces are just bigotry, and weaponizing hypotheticals. And you’re right about that aspect.
Yes I understand and have had friends who have suffered abuse along these lines so my goal definitely isn’t to downplay the horror of abuse my point is mainly just that abuse doesn’t typically make someone bigoted, it’s usually preexisting.
Well leather at pride is sorta messed up. I mean kinks are supposed to stay in the bedroom. That's what they're for. And straight people aren't parading their kinks in public either so...yeah ....
And before you say " even if I don't they won't respect me" ....and that's means keep at something that overly sexual to piss them off. That's childish
So Straight people don’t parade their kinks during Mardi Gras or Spring Break, huh?
Who made you Judge Judy?
Judge Prudy
"And straight people aren't parading their kinks in public either so...yeah ...."
lol bullshit.
Idk why you're getting downvoted. Pride parade is supposedly supposed to be child friendly, I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to teach kindergartners about BDSM and butt plugs. Let kids be kids.
I'm sorry but how does wearing leather instantly relates to sex —unless someone has told a child it relates to sex?? Things have to get awfully specific to differentiate leather straps from leather jackets in order to get the sexualisation across—at which point the person explaining this to a child is the actual problem.
You, as well as others, are being deliberately obtuse. This is overtly sexual. Anyone trying to say otherwise is arguing in bad faith. You would not show up to an elementary school, or a preschool wearing this. It would be like if you had a punisher sticker on your truck. Not everyone would understand, sure. But enough people get the message and there's definitely a tone you're trying to set.
Edit: I keep seeing comments that "I'm the only one sexualizing" this type of dress. You are all so blatantly full of shit. Please enlighten me to the places outside of kink events or sexual play where this is worn?
Here's some ladies at the beach. Are you going to go on a similar diatribe about them?
You're being revisionist and puritanical. This is something the US society can keep, thank you very much. I'm very happy Europe has managed to take away the shame discourse around sex - be it straight or gay. But I suppose youd happily abolish fully nude saunas because it's sexualised, too?
There's a difference between shame and differentiating what's appropriate. Are you saying you bring your toddlers into the room to watch you having sex?
Pride is not, in and of itself, a kids event. Some parts of them are, and that's great. ultimately though, it's a parent's responsibility where they bring their kids. Don't put this on the community who have fought (and still continue to fight) long and hard battles over their right to exist.
Edit: also lol at you equating nudity around family members with having sex in front of kids.
There is a difference between nudity and attire with sexualized connotations and you know it.
That's such a huge logical leap going from having parts of your body exposed to full on penetration with an underage audience. Build heavier strawmen that aren't so easy to knock down.
It's not a strawman. My argument is simple. Children and sex don't mix. Parents and health teachers have an obligation to educate them in a clinical way, absolutely.
To address what OP also said, yes. Pride isn't necessarily a kids event. But also it's a conversation worth having that it shouldn't necessarily be a sexual one either even if there are no kids present. Pride isn't about sex, it's about love and identity.
you're the only person here sexualizing it.