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The anti-society trend is silly and often comes from people that couldn't exist without society.
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5d
Pretty ironic that the cause of their doomsday mindset that they spout all day on the internet is oftentimes spending too much time on the internet. Spend all your time on Reddit and you'd think the world is ending tomorrow.
Well and here's the thing about that. Even if the world did end tomorrow, would you really want to spend your last moments on earth prepping for disaster? And if you could survive a mass extinction event, would you really want to?
Imagine living in a world with no clean water, no safe or reliable food sources, no electricity, and perhaps most importantly, little to no modern medicine. I imagine it will be absolutely brutal, and people will know pain they never dreamed possible. I reckon that most of the preppers would be begging for death before long.
Imagine living in a world with no clean water, no safe or reliable food sources, no electricity, and perhaps most importantly, little to no modern medicine
Billions of people live in that world right now, and keep on going. The survival instinct is powerful and I don't think any of us can say how we'd react unless we are face to face with that situation.
Usually the internet is the only place they can find community at all because they were forced to leave or conform by a community, their community, that is hostile to their existence.
Edit: the internet is the symptom not the cause.
Well said. Maybe not in every case but I suspect that for a great many people finding a community online is something of a last resort when all local irl community is actively hostile to their existence
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Ain't that the truth!
Internet nest.
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Claiming lives lol.
Absolutely!✌🏻
The average redditor can't create their own manure, raise their own crops or animals. They can't create their own fuel or properly maintain something running on solar or hydro.
Isn't that societies fault though? We are all forced into preparing for work life and then actually working.
Easy to shit on society, but my child can get all of their education and health needs met. I have reliable heat, water, food, and hygiene. And I have as much entertainment or hobbies as I can afford.
You're just summing up the positives. There are plenty negative things to society too.
Isolation, loneliness, stress, no purpose, anxiety,
You're also forgetting most of society does not meet health needs, heat, water, food and hygiene. And if they can't afford necessities, do you think they have time or money for hobbies and entertainment?
When's the last time you donated time, money, or effort to your immediate surroundings ?
Again, if people are struggling in their lives, how do you expect them to do this?
Religion isn't for everyone, but being part of a tribe is hardwired into 99% of the population.
That's one of the flaws of modern society isn't it?
Seriously on another note, my father recently died. The goverment gave me 3 days to mourn. It took me 2 weeks to get him back to our home country.
My boss was asking when I'm back to work. And I was back to work way to soon. My friends prefered to do fun stuff instead of checking in with me or making time for me. The friends that did make time for me were more interested in their own dramas. Some just dissapeared.
My psychologist literally explained that this is a modern society problem, as in tribal times people actually cared and helped mourning people. Now, you're left to fend for your own and have to somehow deal with mourning, previous problems, chores and work at the time time
Seriously, you're entirely dependent on a system you have no control over. Food shortages or crumbling infrastructure can threaten your life. If the grid goes down in Phoenix in July, people can and will die from the heat. If there's a problem with the water supply, what are you supposed to do? I have crippling anxiety about my complete dependence on poorly designed and unsustainable infrastructure. Homes here aren't designed to be cooling efficient, none of us grow our own food. We're basically helpless cubicle cattle.
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4d
For starters, you can grow your own food and supply your own power. As far as water, you could choose somewhere to live with where you can build a well, a water tower, or collect rain water and store it underground in large tanks. You can build homes that are naturally cooling efficient and switch to split HVAC systems to reduce unnecessary energy consumption. If you can't do that, you can push for more walkable cities, infrastructure budgets, and public transit in your own city. Beyond that, building your community, knowing your neighbors, cooking each other food, all those things help you build a less capitalist and out sourced life.
Not sure why your first thought is anarchy.
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I never said I don't want a society
One of the most valuable benefits of living with other people is risk sharing. Living on your own, even if you are fully capable of doing so, puts you far more in the path of danger of things you have no control over.
I never said to live on your own
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This is the right answer but something tells me it won't find a welcome audience here.
That's great buddy, but research does show this is a general trend in the developed world
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For material needs, but for mental needs? Not so much
I want to preface this by saying that I'm not trying to excuse your friends behavior. I'm not. But all that stuff you mentioned about going back to work too soon? Only 3 days off to mourn? Your friends are dealing with that too. We're all dealing with that. So many of us (myself included) are just glutted on tragedy and stress and being there the way we should be when we can't catch a goddamn break when we need it for our own tragedies is damn hard.
I had that little epiphany pretty early on into the pandemic and reevaluated my friendships because I didn't want to be that kind of shitty friend, but I also felt the need to be realistic about how much I could offer someone. And also worked my way through my feelings on being transparent about that and also offering other forms of support like, no I just do not have it in me to offer emotional support, but could I bring over some frozen meals instead. Or pick up the kids from school and take them to the park for a few hours. Or take care of your mail/plants/pets while you're out of town dealing with things.
We're in such enormous misery because of the way society is set up now. It's so sad.
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“I make time for those who reciprocate” “You mostly have control over who is in your "tribe".”
I genuinely think the next major challenge for humanity is to realize it’s not about giving back to the obvious people you already should have been giving back to (in your immediate city/community circle).
It’s to realize all the labor you benefit from that you don’t see or have any connection to, that you’re erroneously leaving out of your “tribe.” You don’t have control over the supply chains you’re forced to use, and yet excluding them in your consideration of whose support you depend on obviously leads to an incomplete picture of your REAL “tribe,” no?
No amount of love thy neighbor is going to fix the problem of ecological and colonial exploitation propping up all of human consumption and tech in the western world. In terms of the materials and labor for production. Mining the metals. Farming their lands. Producing in factories.
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There’s no resignation here - it’s not an either or.
I got too much fight in me to neglect the source of the vast majority of labor and production that enables my life, which is the global supply chain.
I’m very happy with my current level of engagement locally, I have known my local farmers for 5 years in this area & have bought & grown with them for the past 3 of those 5 years. It’s the global aspect that’s missing that I can’t control, can’t thank, and don’t get to choose a more ethical or sustainable option.
I HONESTLY am sorry you were treated like that. I'm a solid believer in allowing people the time that they need to mourn.
It's terribly important, and if we are not allowed the things our minds need to heal and process sad or traumatic events, then I worry even more.
Comes with being the family spiritual keeper I suppose.
You are being so compelling... I need to walk away 🤣🤣
My friends prefered to do fun stuff instead of checking in with me or making time for me. The friends that did make time for me were more interested in their own dramas.
Your problems have nothing to do with "society" and if a psychologist told you that they're cosplaying as a historian or giving you an inappropriate coping mechanism.
Your job sucks because you have a bad one. Your friends suck because you have bad ones.
When my mother-in-law died two years ago, my wife was off work without issue for over a week, her boss went so far as to make sure she had a better flight arrangement than we were able to get ourselves on short notice. We received flowers, cards, gift baskets and well wishes from friends all over the country.
If you go to a psychologist or a therapist and they are giving you a license to blame nondescript and ambiguous "society" for whatever is bothering you, they are giving you a license to not work on yourself and you are giving them a license to not actually do their job.
If people actually believed this stuff, they would not be posting their complaints on internet forums, they'd be off the grid, or spending all of their time in real world pursuits that are actually constructive for themselves, other people, or their communities. No one actually believes this. It is just an easy vehicle through which we can lodge our complaints about things we don't like. That's not society. That's you.
Please be sure to down vote anyone who disagrees with you that society is the reason you have a bad life and then cry more about your social problems. I bet that will help you.
Your problems have nothing to do with "society" and if a psychologist told you that they're cosplaying as a historian or giving you an inappropriate coping mechanism.
So my job, friends, laws that affect me, people in public are not society according to you?
Your job sucks because you have a bad one.
Well it's my 10th so I'm wondering when the good ones will pop up.
for over a week
That's pitifully low. My brother got fired after being assured he can take the time he needs.
We received flowers, cards, gift baskets and well wishes from friends all over the country.
That's great for you, but we're not all as lucky. So you got lucky with the people you met trough your life.
But somehow it's my fault mine don't care?
If you go to a psychologist or a therapist and they are giving you a license to blame nondescript and ambiguous "society" for whatever is bothering you, they are giving you a license to not work on yourself and you are giving them a license to not actually do their job.
I didn't know agreeing on one point ment a license to blame everyone.
Besides, many psychological studies do show increased anxiety, loneliness and isolation in people. But I guess you know better.
If people actually believed this stuff, they would not be posting their complaints on internet forums, they'd be off the grid, or spending all of their time in real world pursuits that are actually constructive for themselves, other people, or their communities. No one actually believes this. It is just an easy vehicle through which we can lodge our complaints about things we don't like. That's not society. That's you.
Yeah because it's that easy. It would take years to learn the skills to survive solo as society doesn't teach them.
You're exactly what's wrong with society. You have it good so you can't understand others have it bad. You read my post Mut you did not bother to try understand it or show some empathy. You automatically assume it's my fault and you can't comprehend not everyone is as lucky as you are.
You're just proving my Point.
The best disaster preparedness a person can have is knowing who the neighbors are. Being able to help, share, and communicate saves more lives than a hoard of tinned soup in case of zombies.
Found that out fast after Hurricane Andrew. All the neighbors helped each other out for years. We got to know each other fast.
I make sure I know all my neighbors. Blows my mind that people wouldn't want to know exactly who they're living next to
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I like to bring them something homemade first time I meet them and get their number for emergencies. If they keep to themselves, fine, but I want to have a few positive interactions so there's less tension if there's a problem. You never want your first interaction with a neighbor to be because of a problem, that's for sure.
That's what our goals are within 2 to 3 year's. At LEAST 80% self sufficiency. Yes indeed humans are hardwired for Tribalism.
I don't believe I've ever seen anyone invest time in their own community or offer to cook for and feed the older people.
I really love doing that. And these ladies have taught me so much sharing their wisdom.
I know that rambled, what I mean is that it all pays itself back into the community.
It's a beautiful thing to see.
That's what people need to be concerned about these days. Bet barely ANYONE could feed themselves without grocery stores and take out
I'm just waiting for cell service to die for more than a week, and the net go out 🤣🤣😂
“I don't believe I've ever seen anyone invest time in their own community or offer to cook for and feed the older people.”
Friend, you are soooo close to seeing the source and solution of the problem in one fell swoop.
Because I have been in many settings where I was surrounded by this kind of ethic and needed their kindness. I’m actively in such a community right now. Surround yourself with what you want to see. Or retreat & intensify the problem. Those are the options.
You are so very right. I wouldn't want to be within any less of a community.
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Yes it is! I can't wait to be doing it full time. Maybe I romanticize it, but a full days work, knowing that you made sure your family had tomorrow...best feeling in the world. I have some chickens, ducks that eat the ticks and fleas, I grow a ton of vegetables. I've not been hunting since I was a teen.
When you are motivated and doing something you enjoy, the work doesn't bother you as much. I'm glad you are able to do it.
Thank you so much. It will never make me a millionaire, but to me it's a worthy and I don't have to deal with middle management.
The Yanamamo of the Amazon would like a word with you. If I recall from Anthropology, it takes all but 15 hours of "work" a week for them to meet their needs. I think that's a record for laziest society in history.
I recall the context being a well managed ecosystem and efficient agronomic system.
Not a degraded planet overheating and teeming with pest/disease-inducing conditions, all on the verge of collapse.
Wasn’t the amazon also one of the most abundant places on earth?
Yep.
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Subsistence is different than surplus. Farming work comes in spurts. The calves coming, the harvest ready. The in between time is mostly choring. You can ignore a lot of chores with a specific approach. Your yields will still be enough to feed your own family.
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Oh HELL yes
Well that’s your answer. Modern creature comforts. Livestock cares for itself in small quantities. Hunting wise you set up a trap fence of a feeder to bait deer to an area down in a valley. Don’t have to hang out long before you get a shot.
But also it’s about being in a village. Say one hunter kills a deer that feed for a day. Well if you have 7 hunters you’d only need to hunt once a week etc. Economy of scales that doesn’t apply to the “frontier” solo on a ranch kind of life.
Yanamamo are so lazy their counting system is "1, 2, more than 2". 😂 You're not working hard in the society.
Although you do have to learn the strict etiquette of an Axe Fight. 🤔
"I don't believe I've ever seen anyone invest time in their own community or offer to cook for and feed the older people"
I've seen this often and I live in a major city. It happens in sub-communities all the time. Hell, my karaoke community has crowd-funded all sorts of things for others in the group. I've contributed to people I know almost nothing about except for what they like to sing.
There are bars in my neighborhood where everyone knows everyone else, and people help out if someone is struggling. Some of them host holiday lunches and dinners for people who otherwise don't have anyone else to be with at Christmas or Thanksgiving.
I've also seen people helping out strangers on Nextdoor. Like offering to bring dinner for neighbors who are ill or house bound. Or in some cases, raising money to help out a homeless person in the neighborhood.
That doesn't even include religious groups, which often provide a lot of community support.
In order to find these groups though, you have to actually go out and find them. But they definitely exist if you look a little.
Great...and correct... perspective!
Very few people could exist without society. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be critical of it. Society is a big project that everyone works on
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I doubt you know the personal lives of every redditor. I'm a redditor and I donate 1/2 my income to charities and work 20-40 hours a week of unpaid overtime at the hospital since we're short staffed (suffered multiple health issues from that so have cut back a lot lately). Feel like I'm contributing to my society and I still complain about it like everyone else on reddit.
agreed! i do think that humans should learn how to be more self-sufficient tho. like even having a vegetable garden would be better than relying solely on the grocery store
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Oh shit I'm growing chives right now
I think we should grow our own food, cook our own food, and do our own yard work. But the pointless 8 hour a day corporate shackles and long commutes suck the time out of our lives that should be spent living. People eat TV dinners and food out of cans because they grew up that way. It's completely unnatural but so commonly accepted as normal.
A problem with today's American society that it's not constructed to encourage community life. No front porches, everyone is doing their own thing, can't even walk to a bar and back. Hell, can't even walk without getting run over.
That's a huge over-generalization, many cities are walkable... also to my knowledge no one is taking out extant porches.
I just moved into an apartment where for the first time in my life I don't have a local bar/pub within walking distance and the first time my mom visited my new place she noticed and pointed it out, because it is pretty unique.
Walkable cities in the U.S. are also unaffordable cities, in my experience. Then you have cities like Phoenix which sprawl 50 miles in each direction with buildings built like greenhouses and golf courses every 10 blocks. This city is designed so poorly and there's no sign we're going to start building sustainably. No bike paths, no trains, infrequent buses, no shade at bus stops, asphalt that radiates 150° heat. The heat island effect is absurd. You go 40 minutes out from the city and it's 10° cooler.
I'm really glad that you've had that experience. I've been stuck in the suburban South most of my life. One of the largest growing cities in the Southeast us, Atlanta where I live, is nothing but car-centric suburbs. If you could direct us all to these walkable places you've lived, that would be really neat.
I've only lived on the west coast (and in Europe), but in the U.S. Portland (where I am now) and San Francisco are both very walkable, Oakland, CA is not quite as good but I still did fine living there without a car.
Your points are valid and I understand hyperbole, it just frustrates me when people say "nowhere" in the US is walkable because it's disrespectful towards the cities that are walkable and have robust public transit - people have put in a lot of work to make those things happen!
PNW here. The west coast is exceedingly more walkable than anywhere but the oldest cities located on the east coast or a few around the great lakes. These cities do it out of necessity. It’s getting better a lot of places but the system of zoning laws make it difficult at the best of times.
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So I was walking with my gf down the road in her rural hometown in Michocan and was struck by:
1) She had some idea of who lived in a given house ~80% of the time (made easier by how many she was distantly related to in some form or another and the amount of houses that had family name placards)
2) You absolutely must say buenas to every single person you pass
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Almost every person: "Buenas x!" "Buenas x!"
Few seconds later after passing
Her (sotto voce): "Ok remember how I told you about my cousin's wife Reina (or other relative I absolutely did not commit to memory)? That girl we just passed was the who..."
Most guys from Mexico I have met here feel a sense of loneliness. I took there that seriously, because they have a strong sense of family and community, and I'm the frog in the water getting heated up.
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Standoff-ishness from Americans towards foreigners?
I loathe the people who speed down my street in front of my house at like 45 mph
Idk man, I have lived in a ton of close knit, friendly, and social communities all over the US. I think it's just where you live. I live in a town of 2000 right now and pretty much the whole town is out doing various events every weekend, people chilling on front porches every evening, food shares, all sorts of stuff.
That's nice, but not the experience of most places I've lived.
That's why I said it's just where you live. You can't make a blanket statement about the US based on your little slice of the country
I've traveled all over though. California, Texas, Colorado, Chicago, etc. It's the same for all the places I've been. I ask around and people don't know their neighbors. People commuting everywhere and don't make friends on their commute in trains because no trains. No community participation. These articles reflect my personal experience that I've seen and experienced. Even in large cities, cars have changed how people find friends.
According to data HUD and Census collected in the 2017 American Housing Survey (AHS), 52 percent of U.S. households describe their neighborhood as suburban, 27 percent describe their neighborhood as urban, and 21 percent describe their neighborhood as rural.
If most suburbs are similarly isolating, as I've seen in my travels, then 51% (a majority of Americans) live in spaces built to isolate them. Also to force car-dependency.
Having also lived in rural America too, I have also experienced the isolation of living in the sticks as well. There's a well-publicized loneliness epidemic of American farmers and rural Americans.
Based on these numbers and reports, I don't see that my experiences and reports received from others are abnormal or peculiar.
I've also had people from outside the country tell me the same.
Based on all of this, I'd say that the statement of communities not being built for communal living in the US isn't generalizing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Suburbanhell/comments/y3y2eg/the_crippling_isolation_of_american_suburbs/
https://www.vox.com/features/23191527/urban-planning-friendship-houston-cars-loneliness
https://cromwell.com/2019/01/01/how-public-policy-encouraged-suburban-sprawl-and-cultural-isolation/
https://www.newsweek.com/transform-suburbs-address-gen-zs-loneliness-crisis-opinion-1898500
Oh yes absolutely most of these people who keep asking dumb questions like why do they have to get a job and can't you just go live in the woods still live with their parents and have never even been out camping, they couldn't survive without WiFi let alone society.
This is my biggest issue particularly with anti capitalist types. You can literally go buy a plot of land for a months rent and, with some supplies, just go live out in the woods. The Amish do it with minimal help from modern technology, you with modern technology shouldn't have much issue with it. It's called homesteading. There are homesteading communities that will help you get started. Hell you could go all out and start a commune if you want. Capitalism doesn't mandate your participation.
Yes indeed on the commune. ✌🏻
anarcho primitivism is not the main response to capitalism its a response to tech. capitalism.does mandate participation due to labor being needed for profit. you mention anti capitalists but you only addressed anarcho primitivists...
I've lived in frontier areas of the world for extended periods of time, too. While there is some validity to OP's point, it does nothing to address the serious issues there are with modern society and why people hate it.
Sure, washing your underwear by hand in a stream would be jarring to most members of an industrialized society, as would the skill gaps to become self-sufficient farmers.
So what?
Modern western society still sucks, and people's inability to farm for themselves can also be blamed on the design of our society. We're not taught or encouraged to farm, we're encouraged to learn to use Excel and build apps.
It's ALL a choice...to a point.
I think what you’re missing is how advanced societies have devolved in a way that weakens community. I grew up in a small town. My brother and SIL love living there, as do a number of people we grew up with. I hate how in your business everyone is. I don’t mind it if it’s people I know and care about but 6-800 people that I don’t know or care about can kick rocks. I love that the community was there for my dad these last few years even when he got taken by a scammer after my mom died and they turned out for his funeral like I knew they would.
Conversely while I appreciate the anonymity living in bigger places has afforded me I feel zero connection to communities I’ve lived in. I’ve made friends that I cherish but don’t give a damn about the community.
For me there isn’t really a happy middle ground where I get a sense of community while also only being surrounded by people I know and care about. I’m queer in a red state and have no kids so living in a small suburb where no one knows me is fine with me, but I’d much prefer to sort of hit reset on society and live in an intentional community with my friends.
I don’t have enough of skills or knowledge to survive out away from established society for sure. I’m trying to learn, but I’m broke so learning is all I can do. What I want is a place I can be proud of because people have the values I cherish and put their money where their mouth is in taking care of the people around them and don’t vote against their best interests. I can’t fix society but I can work to insulate myself and my inner circle from the worst of it.
All that being said, I don’t know how others feel about any of this. I’m sure there are those like me with similar motivations, but I’m sure there’s also a lot with some of the same motivations but none of the values I think are important. I don’t want the neo-liberal, everyone for themselves, super conservative, judgmental, racist, homo/transphobic, religious people that I’m surrounded by. So it’s not so much anti-society as a rejection of those that rejected me first.
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You’re talking about joining segmented communities while I’m talking about the traditional role of community where all of those kinds of interest groups overlapped in a larger community such as a town/village (so maybe a town of under 1000 vs a city of 50,000+). Where I’m from there is no “quail hunting community” there’s just “your hunting buddies.” The only reason hunting buddies have become a “community” in a much larger area is because the roles that a centralized small community of geographically isolated people played of bringing people together via school, church, and community functions has devolved and fallen away. Yes those things still exist even in larger towns/cities but the general town events aspect of social life where you run into lots of people you know but aren’t friends with at the church bazaar, town fair, or harvest festival isn’t so much a thing anymore so you supplement with niche interest communities such as those you’ve mentioned. So the result is that you’re surrounded by tremendously more people you don’t even know which just serves to further isolate you. I think it’s great that we can find interest groups like that in bigger communities. It affords us the ability to pursue interests that our ancestors might not have been able to.
It’s all a trade off. Closer knit more traditional communities that are highly connected vs much larger dispersed populations where you have to figure out how to fulfill the community role through creative means.
Even if you are able to build that sense of community through various interest groups you spend all your time working to be able to afford your hobbies and interests with zero ability to save for retirement or to be able to pass something along to your kids. If that’s what life is gonna be like I’d rather have a small farm of 100 acres where I can raise/grow enough food for myself and a small group of my friends and be able to take off time to pursue my interests and hobbies when I want/am able to. At least that way I’d be able to have long term food and housing security that I don’t currently have and be able to weather any kind of societal collapse so long as we can defend ourselves.
And I think if I wasn’t so poor/broke I would feel more connected to society by having a sense of community that I don’t currently have because I’d be a able to actually get out and do things that interest me. I think even then there would be serious issues I have with modern society such as politics, economics, etc. that wouldn’t be fixed even by getting engaged in niche interest communities in those topic areas. Even through political activism I can’t change how the federal government behaves. I can’t restructure society to be more equitable and inclusive. Societal progress will never be fast enough for me. An imperfect analogy would be: it’s kind of like staying in an abusive relationship because you both like to dance, go to concerts, and make quilts. Sure those things are fun and the good times truly are good but when it comes down to it why should you stay with someone for some fun when you can have security for your future in a healthy relationship that’s better than you ever dreamed it could be?
Absolutely. It's like the anti-vax position.
People have spent so long spoiled by it, that they have no idea what life is like without it. So when they're lazy brains look for something to blame as the Be-All Cause of everything, because nuance is too much for their lazy, small minds to want to consider, they can't resist.
It's a completely spoiled and privileged viewpoint, tempered by never having lived in a Traditional Economy, or an actual lack of government.
"There has never been as many people killed in the name of a doctrine, than in the doctrine that humans are naturally good."
-Anatole France, Legendary French Satirist, and Hardcore Marxist.
I just want to say that I am so very thankful there are rules in place. Several in a row that truly deserve far more than they'll ever receive
Eh. I’ve been to countries like Afghanistan, Syria, Ethiopia, Papua New Guinea- we can’t filter them through a western lens and compare them to redditors. We’re all so very complex.
Its not so much anti-society as much as anti -this- society.
The way you frame this is some typical conservative trap: Either you embrace latestage capitalism with all of its corrupt hierarchies and pathologies or go out and live in the woods on your own. No complaining allowed.
People don't like society because they, themselves, don't meaningfully contribute in any way. Is life shit ? Is your area shit ? When's the last time you donated time, money, or effort to your immediate surroundings ?
Doing those are noble things and I wont demean anyone who does any of that, but I will defend the people who are cynical about it. Capitalism will just steamroll over any of those local efforts.
I mean the efforts you describe are the utter clichee of flyover america. You had generations of people putting their efforts in exactly those activities and look at them now. Left behind in the apocalyptic wasteland.
Changing global capitalism would be the most herculean effort imaginable and it makes sense that the outlook turns a lot of people into dysfunctional misanthropes as you describe, but that doesnt mean that the base outlook is wrong.
One could see your outlook just as much as denialist rationalisation, even if on the personal level and in the short term its perhaps healthier.
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How do you know how many people are believing this hyperbolic internet rhetoric? And participating in what? I can’t prove it but my hunch is it’s just a defense mechanism of a very small minority. It is like it’s part of a developmental process — you see it a lot in addiction spaces, a phase of recovery is blaming society. Then add that the internet is addictive and you’ve got a perfect storm of seeing people on the internet blaming society for most likely personal failings.
I see it frequently enough IRL and feel it in myself but I fight it because I know it’s silly. I know people who claim they’re doing everything they can to “be happy” but get all riled up on line.
my hunch is it’s just a defense mechanism of a very small minority
Anything to help you sleep better, right?
Yeah I have a tendency to not let amorphous things keep me up at night, I have enough concrete concerns.
Building a relationship with your society can mean a lot of different things to different people
Yeah and resistance is one of those things.
You actually just advocated for cynical lazy behavior as a good thing?
Nah get behinds up and do something OTHER than complain and bich about semantic silliness
You actually just advocated for cynical lazy behavior as a good thing?
I actually did, how about that? o_0
Read some Dostoevsky.
It's quite similar to the trend I've observed where the people who most desire tax-funded social programs themselves typically pay the least in taxes.
In both cases, the person advocating seems to ignore their own situation while advocating.
Who are these non-tax paying people who want better social services that you speak of? People in low income brackets? A talking point I wish/hope the left and right could easily align with is that there are plenty of US tax dollars - they're just used HORRIBLY. Conservatives wouldn't hate taxes so much if they were actually allocated for social goods, but instead they're used for corporate subsidies and military funding.
Unless you are a member of a hunter/gatherer tribe you cannot exist without society. You lack the knowledge and skills to do so. When the world ends they will be the only ones that will survive. The preppers will last another year if lucky but will eventually die.
Yes! Agreed. It's a symptom of misanthropy, and this anti-society mentality is poison just like misanthropy is.
Mostly agree but Everyone contributes in life some way. If you give $20 to a bum he'll create work for several people you wanted.
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4d
Agree 100% I follow a guy that sheds a light on conditions in China and it’s shocking. I’m a proud American for better or worse
The worst thing about our society is how terribly wasteful we are in providing any of the things you mentioned. Sure, we have all these nice things, but just beneath the surface you see this machine runs on gluttonous consumption. It can’t go on like this for much longer. One decade, maybe two is all we have to turn it around.
What about those of us who just don’t like large groups of people, those of us that love animals, and nature rather than concrete? I have made and contributed plenty to society. I have just found my personal niche. It brings me peace as in wake up and have coffee on a mountain. Solar and propane chugging away as my wife showers, the kids playing and enjoying the day without fear of being human trafficked, or drugs, or shootings. You may have your society, I would like my heaven. Thank you for allowing me a rebuttal.
Yeah, just put credit where due - the society that allowed you to do that.
Had to laugh and up vote.
I always have to laugh at the "self sufficiency" people.
I remember reading about this family who fled to Soviet Union and went to live wayyyy out in the remote woods, and even with knowledge developed over thousands of years by hundreds of societies.. well, let's just say, they were living like animals, because being cut off from the tech society produces for everyone pretty much dumped them off in the neolithic.
Society is great. Cooperation is the winning strategy. Who says these things are shitty?
It depends on where you are in said society. To some people society seems great, they meet friends, have easy access to hobbies, depending on where you live it's safe, you may have a home, and a secure job where you make enough money to live comfortably.
But on the flip side someone who's living paycheck to paycheck that's forced to choose between gas or food after having to pay income tax, doesn't it make sense for them to view society negatively?
Sure does. Thanks for the response.
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It doesn't? Really?
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Where are you seeing these anti-society Redditors? Do you go looking for them?
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People like to say that to me but maybe they just go in one eyehole and out the other because an anti-society person on Reddit is kind of self-canceling.
Usually they've gotten annoyed because someone hasn't socialized with them in the way they expect/feel they're entitled to and they start this line here.
They’re not hard to find, unfortunately! Just this morning I came across a thread full of people saying that they if they had to choose between saving their pet and saving a human they don’t know, they’d save their pet, because they hate other people and don’t owe them anything. It was pretty disturbing!
Yeah I just avoid those kinds of threads. I myself know how cliche I’m being in this moment without adding much new to the conversation.
I will be totally honest — I’m in my mid-fifties and in my less fine moments I engage but I have the feeling I am engaging with people much younger than me who have very little real world experience to draw on with their Big Philosophical Stances.
The best way to build community is to shit on another community.
Tale as old as time.
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Harder to do what? Am I missing something? You’re leading a completely full and satisfying life in the real world contributing to your community, correct? I haven’t had coffee yet and don’t want to write a story in my head.
I think this kind of thinking often goes hand in hand with a glorification of nature and the “natural world”. Living out in nature is hard as fuck, and I think pretending that it works out fine in this perfect utopia is really stupid.
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4d
do you have any actual critiques? a small class owning everything isnt really working, even the richest countries in the west have insane wealth inequality and most cannot afford a small emergency. also OPs post wasnt even addressing communists so why did you even respond talking about something completely unrelated. why do you want profiteers to reign over working class people?
It is totally fucking hilarious. People living off grid, almost always using tools made in a factory with thousands of years of technological advancement, with heads filled with knowledge from thousands of years of research. All built in the back of many societies, and they'd be a whole lot of nothing without.
Self sufficient my ass. Dumb concept is dumb.
It’s also easy to generalize and shit on people you’ve never even met in order to feel superior fo them.
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Agreed. There are a lot of folks who could benefit from a few listens to ‘Holiday in Cambodia’ and some honest reflection. Self-reliance is a great goal to shoot for, but maybe a little at a time. Say, this fall I plan to learn about canning, or another skill that would not only benefit someone isolated from grocery stores, etc., but can also be beneficially practiced in the heart of a city. I think an all-or-nothing mentality attracts a lot of people, but there’s also a lot of middle area that can also improve quality of life at a more realistic scale, and ‘realistic’ is going to be at different points for different people and depend on a lot of factors like age, physical condition, mental fitness, prior experience using similar skills, etc. Not everyone is equipped to thrive as Grizzly Adams, part of the reason we have societies to begin with. Finally, there is an appreciable difference between society and community.
Maybe I'm just an anti-society redditor but who are you talking to? Are there a lot of people like you're talking about out there nowadays? I know there's some but my impression of people 'off the grid' are people into society, not against it. Not always the same society, but not completely isolated.
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“Yes, and….”
You’re absolutely right. And also there are glaring problems presented by the modern world that pose a literal existential threat at least to human life, and most likely to life on earth. These points are in no way mutually exclusive.
Can you explain your own contribution towards society or anything?,
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My bad. I'll peruse later.
People are allowed to live their lives as they see fit as long as they're not breaking any laws.
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All I owe society is to 1. pay my taxes. 2. obey the laws 3. Don't annoy those around me. I believe I'm doing it right when my neighbors don't know I'm even here.
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And likewise, glad that works for you. What doesn't work for me is this pressure to fit into what works for others under the label of 'society'. And that 'society' is always what that other person claims it to be. What sort of good society shames and pressures people to act like they conform?
Yet … and here it comes … you’re here and not helping anyone in your immediate surroundings. Maybe you’re judging people who are just letting off some steam on Reddit.
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And you didn’t respond to my point that perhaps you’re judging people who are just letting off some steam on Reddit.
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Agreed. People forget that living together in societies is how humanity has made it this far. We’re not particularly strong or ferocious animals. But we’re smart. And we stick together. And we support and rely on one another. Humans are hard-wired and built to live together in communities. I’d love to see more people really investing in their communities, because we truly need them, whether people accept that or not.