1/4
- Prime Alive Hashirama (can use all tecniques when he is alive + sage mode)
VS.
KCM 2 Naruto plus Sage mode (war arc)
EMS Sasuke(war arc)
Who wins
Vs BattlesIs this before or after so6p buff? I dont remember.
Before they MIGHT pull a W extreme high diff but hashi might as well, after the buff its not even a contest naruto and sasuke could solo him let alone together
Before, six paths buff gave Sasuke's Rinnegan.
This is KCM2 Sage mode Naruto and EMS Sasuke
The pic is so6p Naruto, but pre rinnegan Sasuke
Ya that Naruto solos but if it's the one they prolly meant it's prolly pretty even
Do you want the clones to use thousand hands or not?
lmao š
Naruto sees it once "Oh hey that's neat! Sasuke, do you see that?"
"You have Kurama and over 1000 clones in your pocket, idiot."
"š¤Æ"
This comment is funny asf
š
I like how the picture used is literally six paths Naruto lmao
People insisting Hashirama wins are prime evidence that nobody watched or read Naruto. How many of these comments are rooted in "Hashirama Lied"/"Hashirama was wrong"
"Hashirama was known for being humble!" The guy who casually dismisses Madara as a nuisance he'll "deal with later" is known for being overly humble in a fight. Jesus Christ people.
Edit: gotta love people taking "He isn't so humble as to undersell himself" as "why are you calling him egotistical?" Never change, reddit.
I don't understand this comment, is saying you'll deal with a guy later super egotistical or something? How is this at all evidence for or against anyone winning?
How so, thereās not a lot of evidence to suggest that Naruto or Sasuke surpassed their predecessors before six paths buffs.
And also Madara himself stated that they were not at their full power in their edo form.
Wrong, Hashirama beats them down. Lol when Naruto and Minato combined their chakra as well as both halfs of Kurama and then supplied the entire Shinobi alliance with Chakra hashirama laughed and said that their Chakra ALMOST rivals, not equals, but rivals, his. Until Rikudo buffs came he was the strongest Shinobi there was. Naruto had also surpassed Sasuke at that point because Sasuke was salty at Naruto progress.
I mean, there was a bigger issue to deal with at the time than Madara lol. Itās a stretch to call Hashirama egotistical solely from that.
its not that deep bro
they call him the god of shinobi for a reason kishamto literally copied his character from jesus
Lol where'd you get that
what do you mean? anyone with a brain can tell kishamoto copied hashirama from jesus
š Source: I made it up
ok
if you ask me heās smart too he knows jesus was a brown/tan man
Idk from the feats we saw it feels like alive/edo Madara and Hashirama exist in a weird little A++ tier below all the god level characters but well above any ānormalā human character before 6th paths buffs, including Naruto and Sasuke.
I think that A+ tier includes the Naruto and Sasuke that fought Obito right at the top of it, with characters like a theoretical non-crippled Nagato and Minato right below.
Iād say that the pre 6th pathās Naruto/Sasuke had the ability to eventually surpass their predecessors through aging and experience even without their respective buffs. I just donāt think they were there yet. My key example for that is that Sasuke couldnāt use the perfect Susanoo when he fought Obito, and while I have no doubt that Sasuke couldāve eventually used it with just his ems, he simply hadnāt progressed to that point yet. Naruto with 1/2 Kurama and Sasuke with ems are kinda like a composite ems Madara who didnāt use the nine tails to its full potential but had the same overall powers. Hashirama beat him with extreme difficulty and would probably do the same to the duo, not saying it would be easy at all though.
Walking, so short response. But Sasuke did have and use a perfect susanoo when he was fighting Juubito.
I wouldn't have mentioned it, but if that's your key example for why you believe something, you should reassess.
Naruto scaled above Kurama after he got sage mode and then trained with bee. And that was just kcm, this is kcm2 ans ik itās 1/2 of Kurama, but bijuu are stronger with jinjuriki. But I think they are stronger overall the only reason this is a fight is because Hashirama has tailed beast suppression.
I donāt think itās just the tailed beast suppression, weāve seen Hashirama literally one shot their strongest combination.
Itās a fair point that not all showings of the majestic attire on Kurama are the same, obviously the one that fought Momoshiki is way stronger.
Naruto and Sasuke definitely have techniques that could kill Hashirama donāt get me wrong. But unless itās an undeniable kill shot, Hashirama is probably just regenerating. He has higher defenses with wood style and likely higher attack output at this point. I will say stamina is a wash given that Naruto can share chakra with Sasuke.
Maybe itās a 50-50 but I think Hashi takes it like 7/10. I strongly feel like Sasuke is the weak link here, Naruto has the raw stats to probably hold his own but is also outclassed.
He one shot their strongest combination? What? Are you still talking about kurama and Madara susano? I thought we just went over how that kurama is way below this Naruto with kcm2 + sage mode. Sasuke also doesnāt even have perfect susano here yet.
Also Naruto outspeeds Hashirama at this point, and probably in strength too. A 1v1 between them would be arguable ( b/c of tailed beast suppression). Add EMS Sasuke, susano chidori stream and amaterasu can counter wood style, which would give Naruto an opening to whoop him.
Madaraās susanoo is leagues beyond Sasukeās at this point, even if Naruto is using Kuramaās full potential. So Iām not as convinced that their majestic attire is stronger at this point, itās honestly debatable.
I also highly doubt that Naruto has surpassed Hashirama at this point, this is actually the first time Iāve seen anyone say that. I thought the consensus was that Naruto wasnāt stronger until he got spsm. The fact of the matter is we have not seen any non god tier character with as an high attack power as what Hashirama showed in his final fight with Madara with his 1000 hands trump card, and I donāt see how the duo survives it if heās going all out.
You seem to think itās a stomp, while I think itās a close fight the other way- for instance I think Naruto and Sasuke beat ems Madara mid-diff at this point, but lose high-diff to Hashirama. Iād say weāre too far apart to come to a consensus lol.
You can find other people in this very thread saying Naruto surpasses hashi before six paths. I thinks itās when he gets kcm2 + sage mode. Hashirama is already beyond the level of a tailed beast plus sage mode. Naruto is beyond the level of tailed beast + sage mode * kurama chakara. If Hashirama didnāt have chakara absorbing, this would be an even fight against this Naruto.
So you add Sasuke who is high kage level at the lowest. I think they win it Mid to high diff. They have been working as a team when they were younger so they compliment each other too.
Hashi regen would make this fight high diff more like 7/10 for the duo tho and 3/10 for hashi.
I could see him using wood clones to fight the 2v1 and if he incaps one of them itās over. But he would have to be perfect with like Minato level iq and dexterity.
It's not even. Hashirama beats them down. Lol when Naruto and Minato combined their chakrs as well as both halfs of Kurama and then supplied the entire Shinobu alliance with Chakra hashirama laughed and said that their Chakra ALMOST rivals, not equals, but rivals, his. Until Rikudo buffs came he was the strongest Shinobi there was. Check your bias. When obito became the juibi jinchuriki tobirama said "he's stronger than even you now brother" he didn't look at Naruto and Sasuke and say "damn they are stronger than you two now" why? Because Hashirama was still the baddest man on the battlefield up until that point.
Actually Naruto shared his chakara with everyone before he achieve KCM2 Sage mode. I think he had just achieved KCM2, but hadnāt added Sage mode to it yet. Episode 365 (shared chakara/Hashirama comment), Episode 380 achieve KCM2 Sage mode. So he rivaled him at KCM2 and once he achieved Sage mode he surpassed him. And Tobirama kept toting Narutoās horn as they are fighting jubito and Hashirama is incapacitated somewhere. So YOU CHECK YOUR Bias. Puts out cig
No, once again he with both halves of kurama and his fathers Chakra ALMOST rivaled him. When obito became juubi jinchuriki Tobirama and everyone else stated that he was too strong, even for Hashirama. They didn't say a word about Naruto or Sasuke. Why? Because they weren't the strongest warriors on the alliance at that point. Hashirama was. Keep in mind Hashirama was only revived at about 80% of the power h had in life. Tobirama "tooting Naruto's horn" was him saying wow, seeing him on the battlefield ALMOST reminds me of watching my brother, and even at one point he said he may be able to surpass my brother ONE DAY" so yeah, go reread the series (that is if you've even read it, fuck an episode, and check your bias.
drops cigar in your drink
Lmao puts out cigarette, what is this a role play? Lame.
I donāt know why you are adding in Minato and both halfās of kurama, because that isnāt what Hashirama said he said NARUTO, and I think he is smart enough to realize itās not JUST Naruto, but you can try to re interpret it for you argument or you can take what he said what kishimoto wrote as what he meant. With all the statements that Kage made about Naruto and Sasuke during the juubito fight was a clear passing of the torch! Just go back and rewatch itās probably been a while for you.
Takes your drink finishes it and dips
Naruto and Sasuke medium-high diff.
Hashirama might be able to win if he can just completely suppress Kurama out of Naruto and force him to use just Sage Mode, unprepared.
Saying they would win already is highly contentious, but having mid-diff as an option is absolutely egregious. Are we forgetting hashirama out right made the full 9 tails cloaked in a perfect susanoo by Madara Uchiha his pet before proceeding to beat the man himself?
Sure, but the full Nine Tails is so much weaker than KCM2 Sage Mode Naruto it's not even funny.
Madara is stronger than EMS Sasuke, but the gap isn't nearly as big as the one between Naruto and Kurama.
There have been debates over who wins between KCM2 Sage Mode Naruto and Hashirama. It's a contentious topic. This one adds EMS Sasuke. It's much less contentious.
Is the KCM2 your referring to, the same as Sage of the six paths boosted Naruto or before he got that power?
KCM2 is power of friendship buffed Naruto when he no longer risked his own chakra when using Kurama's. He also has regular toad sage mode since the pain arc, and he can combine both. KCM2 is stupid strong since KCM spine gives Naruto speed comparable/superior to a trial teleporter (his dad) and KCM2 is both a stronger version of KCM and with all the drawbacks removed. Keep in mind Sage Mode could one tap every path of pain except the main one, and has sensory awareness such that he can identify a war happening thousands of miles away. Sage of Six Paths mode with the truth seeking orbs was given to him by the SoSP's when he was mostly dead
Naruto and Sasuke win.
You cant have Hashirama step onto the scene and blatantly say Obito is stronger than him while still beating these two. If they can take out Obito, they can stop him.
they didn't beat juubito
They were at the very least relative. You can't say Obito was winning.
I meeeeeeean obito was hella nerfed and they had tons of help fom minato and tobirama, I think is fair to say in a 2vs1 scenario, they would lose
They only beat Obito cuz Obito got mental nerf, which weakened his sword that works on mental strength.
Obito was mopping the floor with them right before that, and they couldn't land one hit.
Tbf Obito was having a mid life crisis
They werenāt stronger than Obito, he was doubting his current self because of Narutoās tnj. If he were truly like Madara they would lose
You remember that Naruto split his chakra to the entire alliance during this, right?
That wouldnāt change anything even if he didnāt do that. Obito was a 10 tails jinchuuriki, Naruto and Sasuke werenāt on that level until they got six paths mode and Rinnegan respectively. Obito lost because of plot convenience and they didnāt even fight him by themselves they had help.
So? Take away tobirama, the alliance and Minato and Naruto and Sasuke would've died multiple times. They would've got nukes or destroyed by tsb. Sasuke couldn't even harm Juubito and they could barely keep up with his speed.
So? The topic is vs Hashirama. Relying on Obito skills and feats that dont directly translate into this fight is nonsense. Does Hashirama have a trap barrier+TBB nukes?
You're bringing up him splitting his chakra as a hindrance or something against Juubito like that was the reason he not as powerful. Juubito was simply much stronger than him. He was also stronger than Hashirama. Naruto have nothing to combat Hashirama constructs.
You're bringing up him splitting his chakra as a hindrance or something against Juubito like that was the reason he not as powerful. Juubito was simply much stronger than him.
Yeah, it is part of the reason. Juubito is stronger but evidently not enough to win. Naruto and Sasuke are the Lion's share of the reason he lost. No one else was.
Naruto have nothing to combat Hashirama constructs.
They have more answers for than Madara had.
Yeah, it is part of the reason. Juubito is stronger but evidently not enough to win. Naruto and Sasuke are the Lion's share of the reason he lost. No one else was
He was massively stronger than them but his mental and the help of others is the reason why they won. Minato and Tobirama also helped them a lot. Naruto and Sasuke would've died with Minato teleporting them out.
They have more answers for than Madara had.
Sure but Madara also got washed lol. Edo Madara played with that same version of Naruto with Hashirama jutsu.
He was massively stronger than them but his mental and the help of others is the reason why they won. Minato and Tobirama also helped them a lot. Naruto and Sasuke would've died with Minato teleporting them out.
This is a massive cope and twisting manga facts on your part to downplay the main characters of a story using occasional assists and brief mental distractions as an excuse.
Sure but Madara also got washed lol. Edo Madara played with that same version of Naruto with Hashirama jutsu.
Thats not a wash it was barely a loss and it was KCM2 Naruto that fought Hashirama's dragon, not BSM and certainly not MA-BSM.
This is a massive cope and twisting manga facts on your part to downplay the main characters of a story using occasional assists and brief mental distractions as an excuse.
Bruh the dude damn near had a break down but okay fam that didn't happen. He was faster than them, he was stronger than them and was more potent.
Thats not a wash it was barely a loss and it was KCM2 Naruto that fought Hashirama's dragon, not BSM and certainly not MA-BSM.
Bsm wouldn't change much and wtf is MA bsm? Idk why you're believe that sage buff massively made him stronger. It made him stronger sure but nothing so huge. Another note Sasuke had to use jugo to enhance his Susanoo. Another reason why Juubito was massively above them
Obito wanted to lose and his strength was contingent on his strength of will
Do we actually have any known counter to Amaterasu from Hashirama's skillset? How does he put out black fire on any of his wood creations?
He removes the body part on fire with wood style.
šššš
Naruto scalers are so bad I canāt even tell if this is a joke
His healing is stated to be on par with byakugou if not superior, that's light work for hashirama.
Ngl he can probably regenerate limbs because sakuraās byakugo can
Well itās possible if he uses a wood avatar or wood armor he can just get rid of the piece on fire
Doesn't Hashirama has a better healing factor than Tsunade's 100 seals according to Madara, the question is can he out-heal a flame that burns forever?
I would say chakra completion but with sage mode I'm not sure, although because of sasukes mangyeko he could just spread the flames onto hashiramas wood constructs so that hashirama can't use sage mode because he has to move to deal with kcm2 naruto who will last much longer with shadow clone sage mode and kuramas practically infinite chakra
If KB can block Amaterasu with his tentacles, Hashirama can block it with wood. And if you want to say he can't block it, he can literally remove the body part and just regenerate it.
when have we ever seen him regenerate body parts?
We haven't but we know based off Madara statements that his healing is better than Tsunade's. And Tsunade has healed from being impaled by multiple Susano blades and literally being torn in half. Regrowing a hand seems pretty small in comparison to that but that's just my opinion. Maybe a hand is just too insane to recover.
i just think itās strange to be making up feats for characters but idk maybe thatās just me
plus wasnāt she only able to heal from that thanks to katsuya and karin helping lol
The healing was Tsunade's ability alone. She can funnel it through Katsuyu. And yes Karin did help because Tsunade ran out of chakra, not from lack of her ability.
You saying "making up feats" is disingenuous. At no point did I say he did do anything. But based off what we have seen Tsunade do, who is stated to be below Hashirama, we can infer that he is capable of doing the same level of feats+.
If you want to say he can't do it because we haven't seen it, then Amaterasu isn't a win condition because we have never seen it actually incapacitate someone of relative caliber to Hashirama. So then this entire argument is invalid anyways right? Only target it hits is on a Biju (which Hashirama isn't) and on Ay who he let it hit him.
Exactly and the point heās making is that Madara outright stated that Tsunades Ultimate healing Justu was just a fragment of what hashi could do just by existing in sage mode.
yeah but that doesnāt automatically mean he can regrow limbs lol yāall are attributing things to him that he never did..
But he canā¦ His sage mode is a stronger version of Tsunades healing and she outright said she can regrow limbs in a panel. Are you insinuating that hashiramas healing is worse than hers? Itās a dumb matchup no doubt Naruto and Sasuke would win high diff but hashirama is still him.
you have no proof that he can tho.. give me even 1 example of him regenerating a limb. or even a mention of it. madara said hers was weaker, not that he can regrow limbs. that is pure headcannon you canāt give him someone elseās feat.
the only person weāve seen who can actually regrow limbs without any help is 10 tails madara and technically naruto when he regrew kakashi an eye.
tsunade needed help to be put back together and weāve literally never seen hashirama do it nor anyone directly vouch that he can. i get that yāall love hashiramas character, thatās great, but letās stick to what actually happened lol
Ah yes wood blocks fire how smart
Blocking an attack and countering an element are 2 completely different things lol. You can block a kunai with wind release but that doesn't mean a breeze will break steel.
Don't be dense
He has sage mode and is proven to be comparable or faster than people who can dodge Amaterasu. Unless he just lets it hit him heāll be fine. And hashirama knows better than anyone not to just let a random sharingan ability hit him
On the wood constructs thatās more interesting. If this were itachiās Amaterasu he could probably just break it off but kagutsuchi makes it a pretty solid counter to wood style
He regularly fought prime Madara to standstills, this more than suggests he knows how to manage Amaterasu.
Does Madara have Amaterasu?
Iām sorry Naruto is strong af and sasuke may have all the hax but I donāt see them doing anything more than hashirama would especially sage mode wood style is very underrated and this man can heal himself without signs
Hashrima is straight counter to Naruto. His wood style can seal the nine tails chakra.
And he can enter Sage mode in seconds
Hashirama wins. Because he's Hashirama.
1 vs 1 Hashirama wins
on 2 vs 1 the genins defeat him
Hashirama, laughing and proud of these fine leaf village ninjas. Then stabs them in the backā¦for the village.
If its before they get 6 paths then Hasirama destroys them
Hashirama with medium to high diff.
People saying āKCM 2 Naruto is stronger than full Kurama!ā as if Hashirama doesnāt even need to try in order to deal with full Kurama. He specifically hard counters Kurama, aka the main thing keeping Naruto in the fight, and is strong enough to beat Madara, whoās stronger than Sasuke. Amaterasu is Sasukeās best option, but not only could Hashirama block it fairly easily with Deep Forest Emergence, he can in fact absorb chakra with his Wood Dragon. And since Amaterasu is made out of chakra, Wood Dragon would absorb it.
To summarize: Hashirama can counter both Naruto and Sasukeās best abilities, with Naruto being an unknown amount stronger than full Kurama (Who Hashirama beats easily), and Sasuke being comically weaker than Madara (Who Hashirama beats with mid-high diff)
Hashirama's wood constructs are not Preta Path. They dont instantly absorb and negate all chakra. They can absorb the chakra physically from targets if they come in direct contact, with an emphasis on Bijuu in particular but not everything thrown at it and not right away. That is why Madara covered his with Susano and also why Hash complimented that move. It protects it from absorption. Otherwise there's nothing "clever" about doing it and Hash wouldnt need the 10000 hand statue to peel off the armor first.
Since its not Preta, it isnt absorbing Amaterasu either. In fact, thats a hard counter to Hash's wood constructs because its a fire and forget. Just let it spread and eat the construct. Hashirama himself can deal with this through his regeneration and wood control but his constructs havent shown this and its not as if Hash just up and made a second 10000 hand statue once the first was gone. Naruto and Sasuke wont even have to fight it like Madara did. Just burn and run. Or fly using his hawk summon. Let the fire do the work. On top of this it doesnt even take Enton into consideration. Sasuke's complicated control and traps changing the form at an instant might even counter Hash's regeneration because he can do specific things like use it to decapitate.
Sasuke is not comically weaker than VoTE Madara. There is a reason he had to be resurrected with Hash cells, Sage Mode and Rinnegan because otherwise he would go down instantly against these opponents without them. Naruto also provides chakra cloaks that act as a multiplier for their techniques as well as replenish chakra. So Sasuke will have that fueling him and making his Susano among other things more powerful.
Hashiramaās Wood Dragon absorbs chakra through contact. Amaterasu needs to make contact. Block with the Wood Dragon, begin absorbing, wood and forget. It does also work on all jutsu. Madara was absorbing with his Rinnegan, so Hashirama absorbed that and could then use Jutsu on Madara again. He absorbed an absorbing jutsu. Itās not unreasonable to say that he can absorb Amaterasu, or again, just block it with an overabundance of wood.
Additionally, Amaterasu takes more strength out of Sasuke than spamming wood does out of Hashirama. Even saying that Amaterasu is āfire and forgetā, which itās not, Hashirama could make way more wood than it could feasibly burn. Even ignoring that, we see multiple opponents simply shed the part of themselves that were hit by Amaterasu, which Hashirama would be able to do.
Madara, post-revival while blind, toyed around with Sasuke. While yes, he did have Sage Mode at this point, having no eyes would put him at around the same strength, or only a bit stronger, than when he was alive.
I donāt think people understand how insane thousand hands is, he could level multiple mountains in minutes. Thatās assuming he even has to pull it out (pause)
Naruto can do that too, and those hands were all destroyed by Kyuubi Bijuu bombs.
True 1000 hands destroyed a full Kurama with Madera on its back cloaking it with perfect Susanoo
People keep throwing out these 100% Kurama comments like its simple math or something. Its established fact Bijuu with Jinchuuriki are stronger and he has Sage Mode on top of it. That isnt a weaker Kurama.
Maybe if it Naruto had 100% of kurama, but he does not
Hashirama fought 100% of kurama cloaked in a perfect susanoo by alive Madara
My guy, its as if you completely ignored what i said.
Madara didnt have a Jinchuiriki attached to his Bijuu. They are weaker and not intelligent.
Naruto has 17 years of siphoning leaked chakra from his Bijuu while it still regenerates whatever it loses.
Naruto also combines Sage Mode with his Bijuu Mode.
There are a lot of reasons that gap is more than covered.
But you can't just ignore it explicitly being half of kurama. The statement may hold true if that was 100% kurama but a 50% jinchiriki is in no way guaranteed as stronger.
We don't know if it's weaker or not is what I'm getting at.
A junchuriki is always stronger than its base bijuu self, Naruto alone is = or arguable stronger than half of kurama, thatās without sage mode. Sage mode Naruto plus kcm2 no diffs full kurama as even minato was able to seal him.
Yeah but doesnt Sage Mode at least count for a massive increase by itself? Is Sage Mode Naruto only twice as powerful as standard Naruto?
Naruto has 1/2 of Kurama. Even tho a tailed beast is stronger with a user, it's still only 1/2 of its power plus Naruto, so at beast that's equal to full power Kurama assuming Naruto in sage mode is as strong as 1/2 of Kurama
Well lets look at how much of a boost Sage Mode is. Would you tell me Sage Mode Naruto is twice as powerful as standard Naruto, or a lot more than that?
Back when Deidara captured Sanbi, he also spoke about intelligence being a significant factor. Meaning the Bijuu also shares the hosts brain. I dont think Madara's genjutsu tranced control is comparable. Naruto and Sasuke are going to be capable of complicated plans and strategies in their Bijuu form.
Edit: The whole point is Naruto's seal is that it has a leak. He constantly takes it over the course of his life and his chakra grows. Thats why you get comments from Hashirama mistaking his for Kyuubi's. He cant tell the difference easily. Naruto's regular chakra counts for a lot more than most people think.
Fr naruto is a Uzumaki perfect sage who can use sage mode a long time with shadow clones he has THE chakra(kisame doesn't count because he looks funny)
Naruto stole 90% of Kurama's Chakra to the point Kurama was skin and bones, and Kurama replenished that by consuming Naruto's.
So, in reality, KCM2 Naruto technically has chakra almost as high as unsplit Kurama. Since Kurama replenished his own after Naruto stole it.
Hashirama stomps. He can suppress the nine tails chakra and Sasuke is inferior to ems Madara until he gets Rinnegan.
Ems sasuke has less chakra but a full susanoo as well albeit not as big
Hashi has the means and the charka reserves to activate every single jutsu he has at his disposal at the same time nearly instantly. It's a big benefit to have 1,000 hands. I don't see a way Naruto or Sasuke can deal with that level of blitz, especially from Hashi.
Sasuke can catch Hashirama with Amaterasu that he canāt even see coming since he has no intel. Depending on where this hits, Hashirama wonāt be able to just cut off that part and regen and if he does heāll be temporarily disabled even if for only a bit leaving Naruto and sasuke room for more blitzing
Hashiramaās jutsu activation and jutsu awareness is faster than a bijuu dama firing off. As in the time it takes for a bijuu dama to fire and reach its target Hashirama can activate a jutsu and have it complete before the bijuu dama reaches its intended target. Hence, no matter how fast EMS Sasuke is with his Amaterasu activation (which btw Amaterasu has never been fatal on screen or in manga) itās not faster than whatever EMS + Kyuubi alive Madara was throwing at Hasirama for potentially 24hrs+. If you need proof either watch OR read the fight between Hashi and Madara using a gundam Kyuubi.
Also if we are really just gonna go based off of āso and so doesnāt have intelā. Honestly, Hashirama can activate 1000 hands near instantly then proceed to fire off every jutsu at his disposal simultaneously at Naruto & Sasuke essentially ending that fight nearly instantly. Naruto + Kyuubi is basically rendered useless because of Woodstyle and then EMS Sasuke is just a poormans EMS Itachi who is a poormans EMS Madaraā¦ So Iād like to think Hashi would have 0 problems dealing with a less naturally talent and experienced Uchiha.
Amaterasu flames materialize on the target they donāt have to travel to their target like a bijuu dama so itās not like Hashirama has been seen reacting to anything as fast as Amaterasu. Ay who is definitely faster than Hashirama dodged it. Obito who is better equipped to deal with it still got caught with it tho he had a bit more time to react than Hashirama would. If Hashirama were to use all jutsu at once that probably wouldnāt be as effective as you think. Madara without even being the jincjuriki of the 9 tails was able to take out almost all of the Buddhas hands. Wood dragon and wood golem would be nice but they can be sliced up with Naruto and sasukeās sage amps and sage susanoo arrows if sasuke cares to use that. Hashirama can be blitzed with Amaterasu and Kirin almost at the same time if sasuke times it right
So if everything goes right and Hashi is nerfed and if we speak about the fact that Hashi would be intel-less it would be a handicap against him but for Naruto or Sasuke being in the same boat isn't somehow a handicap and for some reason if Hashi uses advanced level jutsus it's not as "effective" as I think but if Naruto or Sasuke uses moves that have been blocked, dealt with, etc it doesn't count against them.
Dude just say no matter what anyone says you think Naruto or Sasuke wins just because that's how you feel lol.
How would Hashirama be nerfed? Him not having intel isnāt a nerf, neither would Naruto or sasuke. If they all had intel Hashirama would still lose. And ya Buddha hands are as effective as you think, Hashirama and Madara still had a long fight after that. It wasnāt even close to over. Naruto and sasuke combined are above that Madara and the nine tails. Be forreal.
I saw this guys comment on a different post and thought a lot of his points apply here to you.
His main feats: ā¢ Beat EMS Madara who was already considered the (2nd) strongest Shinobi every time they fought ā¢ Fighting alive Madara and 100% kyubi and winning ā¢ Catching a tailed beast bomb from kurama with the wood human in base
Now scale these, first Madara. Upon being reanimated: ā¢ Low diffed the 5 kage ā¢ Summoned 2 mountain+ sized meteors casually, required 2 kage to stop a single one ā¢ Weaker than he was alive
Reminder that kurama is as powerful as multiple of his tailed beast counterparts, enough to push guy to going 8 gates just to deflect a few bijuudama that later got matched by bijuu mode naruto.
Additionally, he has passive healing on par with byakugou tsunade, wood dragons that can absorb chakra from opponents, sealing powerful enough to restrain the JUUBI as an edo, fast and powerful enough to outrun and overpower majestic attire kurama, grabbed kurama like a fucking toy, blocked swings that would level mountain ranges, one of few characters to destroy a perfect susanoo by just slapping it a bunch, stamina to fight longer than
Maybe this addresses some of your concerns
Thatās all dandy but he clearly dies if he takes an Amaterasu to the face. Nothing you listed counters that . Heās also never tanked a Kirin. He wonāt see either of those coming. Those are legit haxxes that he doesnāt counter. Assuming sasuke is smart enough to place Amaterasu right, it should work. Ems madara is weaker than Naruto and sasuke combined. He didnāt get defeated by the Buddha and he somehow kept fighting Hashirama to exhaustion without the nine tails. Clearly Naruto and sasuke arenāt getting beaten by just the 1000 hand buddha
Thatās all dandy but Naruto and Sasuke die if they take a wood palm to the face. Nothing you listed counters that. Theyāve never tanked 24hrs of beating from the God of Shinobi. Etc etc etc.
You can reply whatever nonsense u want, this is gonna be my last response. Ur obsession with the 1 technique that has never had an onscreen kill basically makes any discussion with you impossible. Amaterasu is great and I guess Hashirama or any character like him has nothing to counter someone looking at them lol.
Sasuke&Amaterasu > Goku and all of anime lol
Naruto and sasuke have taken much stronger hits than a wood palm to the face and survived easily. Narutoās 8 kekkai genkai sage mode rasenshuriken barrages destroys the budda and hashi with it. Heās not as strong as you think. Heās fodder in boruto
We can just agree to disagree you donāt have to get so pissy out it. Dunce
if youāre gonna use six paths sage mode naruto why wouldnāt you use rinnegan sasuke? either way that naruto solos hashirama, dual ems sasuke gets destroyed though.
Does Hashirama have Hashirama cells?
Hashirama clears effortlessly
Naruto is gonna talk no jutsu him so hard Hashirama is gonna ask him if he wants to start a second ninja village with him.
Hashirama negs them. what are we talking about? An alive Madara fucked them up.
Brush you need to change that pic of Naruto, I deadass thought you were comparing Hashirama to SPSM Narutoš
Precious deity gates + shinshu senju solos
Have Naruto and Sasuke shown poison resistance? Because the Kages survived Kajukai KÅrin thanks to Tsunade, how will Naruto and Sasuke get around it other than attempting to cut the trees while losing consciousness?
Sage of six path Naruto can fly and sasukes perfect sussanno blocks the poison just like it did infinite tsukuyomi. The trees wonāt do anything to them
That's... Very hard one? Hashirama still wins, though.
CM Susanoo Sasuke should still be below Madara
Now, I will be conversative here, and say that Oro is talking about Prime Alive Madara, not Edo version(Istg, if someone says that Edo>Alive, I will commit something so vile that Obito's acts will seem like a child play in comparasion). That doesn't make much sense, since Kabuto didn't know Madara's original strenght, so Orochimaru shouldn't either? Either way, CM Sasuke<<Madara<=Hashirama(Yes, Hashirama is his moreso equal, but not by much).
Naruto is>=<this Sasuke. Yes, he packs bigger punch, but they have equal speed and are implied to have similiar Chakra output. Hashirama also is direct counter to Naruto due to his wood style, which should be way superior to Madara's(Madara was able to restrain KCM2 Naruto with single Wood dragon). Add in Deity gates with head seal, which would take away will to fight, and I see Hashirama winning 6/10 times.
Naruto's and Sasuke's wincons are Great Attire Susanoo, but I don't think Hashirama will give them time to get the idea
How would Hashirama get around Amaterasu? What prevents his wood creations being engulfed in flames?
He's Sage mode user, he would feel it coming and either use Wood expulsion Jutsu or some different type of attack to block it. At this point he should be able to react and dodge it pretty eaisly, looking at how Amaterasu has no real speed scaling.
Also, Amaterasu isn't that destructive, it is burning hot, but not that hot. Hashirama's wooden constructs tank point blank 9 tails Bijuudamas. Hell, if you wanna go into details, only way it works on him if it hits, is if Sasuke hits his head or torso, otherwise he can literally rip his body part off like Raikage, and regenerate it
I was really more speaking about his creations rather than himself and Sasuke has complicated Enton control in late war ark, he can do a lot more with it than just burn a target. Its ongoing constant damage that cant be put out. Even on Hashirama himself, constantly regerating will eventually run him out.
Make a wood-armor and "molt" it when the flames hits it
In 1v1 they lose
In 2v1 they win
Hashirama.
Hashirama gets stomped.
Hashirama takes this
This is sage of six paths Naruto. He solos. Sauskes there to watch.
The team low dif him.
Edit: This team literally fought Juubito evenly, who Hashirama admitted was stronger than him.
Fought Juubito evenly? They didn't land one hit, and as soon as Obito started fighting back, he blitzed both of them and slammed them into the ground, with the 1st attack. They only beat him after that when Obito got mentally nerfed.
Orochimaru was talking about this version of Sasuke, and said that Sasuke will surpass Madara one day, which means that he's still weaker than Madara, who's Hashirama's equal.
And by extension that puts BSM Naruto bellow Hashirama as well, since this Naruto is equal to this Sasuke.
Naruto landed a rasengan at the beginning of the fight, which injured Juubito.
Regardless of his mentality, Juubito still got cut through by Sasuke + Naruto after they broke through the six paths sword.
There's nothing to suggest Hashirama would do better than them against Juubito by his own statements.
We're talking about BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke as a team, not just Sasuke, so Orochimaru's statement isn't relevant to how strong they are as a team.
Naruto landed a rasengan at the beginning of the fight, which injured Juubito.
The one when he got teleported by Tobirama and caught Obito off guard?
Regardless of his mentality, Juubito still got cut through by Sasuke + Naruto after they broke through the six paths sword.
Yeah, SM works on him.
There's nothing to suggest Hashirama would do better than them against Juubito by his own statements.
He just stated he's weaker than Juubito. Naruto and Sasuke are also weaker.
We're talking about BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke as a team, not just Sasuke, so Orochimaru's statement isn't relevant to how strong they are as a team.
It is, because Hashirama scales above both individually, and individually neither of those 2 had success with their attacks.
And I don't necessary disagree that they can beat Hashirama in 2v1, just disagree with the reasons.
The one when he got teleported by Tobirama and caught Obito off guard?
Yes? It still injured him?
Yeah, SM works on him.
Yes and their power together overpowered him using the sage of six paths sword.
Something Hashirama wouldn't be able to do by his own statement.
He just stated he's weaker than Juubito. Naruto and Sasuke are also weaker.
Together, they overpowered Juubito. OP stated its Sasuke + Naruto vs Hashirama. Not sasuke and Naruto individually.
is, because Hashirama scales above both individually, and individually neither of those 2 had success with their attacks.
Together they beat Juubito and this prompt says its BSM Naruto + EMS Sasuke.
Together they scale higher than Hashirama.
We dont even know which Madara he's talking about. Madara orchestrated the entire war and had a bunch of shit he never had during his Youth.
We're also not talking about either one of them soloing Hashirama, so it still doesnt matter if they're below him or not.
Mentally nerfed or not, Obito would have went down far easier and quicker if Hashirama outclasses them by the amount you think he does.
We do know tho. He made this statement while Madara was still in Edo form.
And Orochimaru never encountered Edo Madara.
So he's talking about EMS Madara.
We're also not talking about either one of them soloing Hashirama, so it still doesnt matter if they're below him or not.
It is, cuz they individual attacks were completely useless, and Hashirama > both of them individually.
Mentally nerfed or not, Obito would have went down far easier and quicker if Hashirama outclasses them by the amount you think he does.
And how do you know that? Can u quantify the mental nerf?
And I don't even necessary think Hashirama beats them in 2v1, I just disagreed with the reasoning.
Naruto and sasuke will use their secret ultimate technique, big smooch
I'm biased and Hashirama is my guy. So I'm taking the man himself, Hashirama Senju
Hashi
So is it KCM2 Naruto or SOSP? Because the picture is SOSP, which completely changes the fight
I see a lot of people mainly matching hashirama'a healing and wood release against Sasuke's amatarasu, but let's not forget, this naruto has EVERY kekkei genkai chakra nature, and can make like almost a hundred massive rasen-shuriken, oh and he can also use wood release, I don't see any way for hashirama to win (plus Sasuke's indra arrow can one shot this hashirama)
These are KCM2 and EMS Sasuke, neither of them can do any of that yet
These are SOG6P naruto and Sasuke, you know when they were blowing up the entire final valley fighting eachother
Edit: it's SO6P naruto, you're right about Sasuke
Naruto literally puts him in a head lock
I mean hashirama and madara were supposedly equal to each other for the most part according to reincarnation plot with hashi being a little stronger.
He would take a similar fight against a majestic attire susanoo, except instead kurama is more than a genjutsu puppet and willing to fight. He would also have to death with Amaterasu plus flame control which should burn through wood style.
At this point Narutoās chakra pool is close to hashi as he stated it himself. Sasuke also has large reserves so together they would have a larger chakra pool than hashi. They also have highly destructive teams jutsus in their kit.
As for naruto, having one half of kurama in this version id argue he is still stronger than a genjutsu puppet since he can easily control its movements. Also he has sage mode with uzumaki chakra reverse to make it closer.
In defense of hashi, wood style is busted.
So itās close but goes to naruto and sasuke.
Hashirama: "So you have a perfect Susanoo, that's Cute
Hashirama: "So you have the Power of The Nine Tails, no problem I'll just yoink him out of you.
Hashirama literally mops
When hashirama said ten tails Obito is much stronger, that tells me all I need to hear.
The duo wins high difficulty due to hashiramas hax
They could each solo high diff, so together I think it's not much of a challenge.
Hashi getting jumped
Bro sasuke can solo with rinnegan
Hashirama beats KCM2 Naruto and Sasuke mid to high diff. High diff if Naruto does his best to keep Sasuke in the fight, mid diff if not. EMS Sasuke has literally nothing in his arsenal at all that would hit Madara or damage him, because there's no way you're telling me EMS Sasuke is stronger than a Prime EMS Madara with Perfect Susanoo and Full Power Kurama. He's damn near a non factor besides Kirin being one of the few moves that could potentially hurt or kill. Naruto is a little tougher but Hashirama is a natural Tailed Beast Suppressant, so every time Naruto gets hit or touches wood style his Chakra is going to be getting suppressed. May seem minor, but them boys are titans. If they fight bloodlusted (which I'm assuming they're doing here) they most likely going to be fighting as long as Hashirama and Madara fought, probably even longer. Getting you chakra suppressed that entire time will start to add up. Other than that they're pretty similar stat wise, with Naruto having the speed advantage.
Why tf would you use so6p picture of Naruto then pull a different version of him š
Sasuke and Naruto.
Hashirama fan boys will try some fantasy ass pull and say he wins though.
sasuke solos while Naruto waits for his instant ramen to cook. Those take 5 mins to cook btw so Hashirama gets folded at 5 š¤£
Sasuke and Naruto combined are Otsuski leveled. Hashirama couldnāt scale 10 tails or higher. In a 1v1 Hashirama stomps but this 2v1 Naruto and Sasuke win 4/5 difficulty. To the people saying āHashirama beat Madaraā yeah a pre So6P Madara who didnāt have Rinnegan.
Naruto and Sasuke stomp. TBH Naruto might be able to solo in kcm sage mode. Hashirama would have to pull out all his top Jutsus to try and defend himself. At this point Naruto can practically use an endless amount of Rasengans, rasenshuriken and Tailed beasts bombs on top of it that's alot of fire fire to take on. And Naruto is also way faster than Hashirama at this point.
No matter what Naruto wins bc of his main character powersšŖ
Guys lets be real they are packing hashirama upš
Lol Naruto and Sasuke would fuck hashirama up.
Hashirama stomps Sasuke but easily crumples to Naruto's talk no jutsu
Thats Sage of 6 Paths Naruto, he deletes Hashirama by himself. 1000 hands gets disintegrated by the Yin Yang Rasenshuriken lol
Edo Sage Mode Hashirama was superior to KCM2 Sage Mode Naruto, and Naruto didnāt surpass Hashirama until he gained 6P chakra and powers. Same for EMS Sasuke and Edo Madara. That being said, even while alive (being significantly stronger than his Edo Tensei self), I still donāt think Hashirama could beat the combined efforts of KCM2 Sage Mode Naruto AND EMS Sasuke. Thatād be a bitch of a battle.
Then again, what Hashirama lacks in numbers, he makes up in experience and hax. Wood style is perfect for suppressing Bijuu, and we already saw Madara, whoās significantly weaker at wood style than Hashirama, do this when he overwhelmed and suppressed Naruto in their brief engagement. Additionally, Hashirama has a long track record of fighting Uchiha, specifically Madara, and would most likely be able to anticipate and deal with Sasukeās attacks with little issue. His Sage Mode is also probably superior to that of Narutoās. As an Edo, Hashirama still had significantly more chakra reserves than KCM2 Naruto as he admitted as such when Naruto was powering the entire Shinobi Alliance and he said Naruto ALMOST had as much chakra as he had. While alive, I think the gab would be a lot larger between him and Naruto (who also had a lot more chakra reserves than Sasuke did at this point). Not to mention Hashiramaās passive healing factor is a game changer in this. Heād probably out last them in a prolonged battle of attrition. The longer the fight takes, the higher chance Naruto and Sasuke will make mistakes, take damage, and diminish in overall performance, compared to Hashirama whoās performance and overall physical condition would regress significantly slower than theirs.
Biggest thing going for Naruto and Sasuke is their teamwork and Sasukeās Amaterasu, which hashirama has never dealt with, and thatās it. Hashirama has dealt with Bijuu (he captured all 9 by himself), heās dealt with Perfect Susanoo and high level Uchiha abilities, and heās fought against the combined might of both at the same time. So he might actually win this now that I think about it.
If Naruto and Sasuke play it smart and Hashirama underestimated them, they win extreme diff. If not, and Hashirama plays this seriously similar to how he did against Madara in their battle at the Valley of the End, Hashiram wins high diff.
Hashirma for the L
Kcm 2 plus sage mode was stronger than hashirama
Naruto and every other character who use six paths Chakra or six paths senjutsu have surpassed hashirama. Hashirama is the most powerful Shinobi up till that point
I could see prime hashirima winning honestly
Naruto and sasuke is unfair š
If y'all see Hashirama winning your glazing to another level
Genuine question here because Iāve seen it posted several times in this thread alone. How do we know Hashirama can seal the Nine tails chakra when itās being used by a perfect Jinchuriki? We never saw that happen in the story. Wood style was used to suppress rampaging tailed beast, a genjutsu controlled Nine tails, and a jinchukriki who had lost control of the tailed beast inside them. As far as I can remember, weāve never seen it used on a perfect jinchuriki successfully. So how do we know it wouldnāt be like using a genjutsu on a perfect jinchuriki where the user/tailed beast wakes the opposite up.
Iām shocked how many people think kcm2 and rms sasuke win. I dont believe either of them could destroy the buddha statue.
I cant see them beating prime alive madara (susanoo+kurama) and prime hashirama is definitely stronger than that
I thought Naruto was supposed too be the reincarnation of hashi
Are you taking these screenshots on a Nintendo DS?
Sasuke and Naruto mid dif him. He has no counter for Amaturasu. KCM2 Sage NAruto's Chakra should be close to Hashirama's. He has Access to Tailed beast bombs etc.
Sasuke has Amaturasu, Genjutsu. superior cutting ability. and a High tier Susano'o.
They have near perfect Teamwork and could have Beaten Juubito together.
Not to Mention Sasuke was getting more skilled with his EMS the longer the battle went on.
Hashirama is a match for each of them solo for sure.
But again with both of them, and their seamless teamwork. Nah.
He counter ez amaterasu with a wood cloak or armour and simply molt it when the flames hits it.
Sasuke's Genjutsu and Susano'o are way weaker than Madara ones.
Hashirama is not a match for each individually, in 1v1's, they would be most certainly overpowered from Hashirama.
Still, I believe that both together would have a slight advantage so I'm prone to think that Naruto+Sasuke would win after a massive battle.
Madara no diffed these guys what do you think hashirama would do?
He did that with limbo which exceeds what even prime Hashirama could do. I honestly think that if MA Susanoo Madara lost to Hashirama to the slimmest of margins in the VOTE, MA Susanoo Naruto and Sasuke could possibly beat him, because that one was probably more stronger than Madaraās
MA?
Majestic attire
majestic attire madara had 100% kyuubi and a bigger susanoo, I get naruto + sasuke should be stronger because they are two brains working as a team, but they majestic attire is still weaker compared to madara's (at leas 50% weaker)
No, it isnt. That 50% Kyuubi has a host, so combine that additional power on top of Sage Mode.
The Susano isnt bigger, it fits the Kyuubi so its exactly that size.
at this point theyāre each pretty much equal to hashi so in a 2v1 theyād overwhelm him
Hashirama
KCM2 Sage mode Naruto is about equal hasirama so adding ems Saskue is kinda overkill.
This is against reddits ToS. You canāt just post a picture of a rape, dude wtf.
6 missing replies
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.