Munich Property Prices- Will you stay or leave?

Discussion

Hi everyone,

I’m interested to get other peoples perspective on this. My partner and I are in our thirties, have good jobs and no kids. We’ve been looking to invest in buying a property here and needless to say….its just astonishing how expensive property in Munich is.

To a certain extent, I get it. Munich is beautiful, safe, has great career prospects for a lot of people and is fantastically located. But I just cannot see how anyone here can afford to buy a place unless you are willing to spend 5-700,000 on a shit-hole that needs another 100,000 doing up, or you have family money?

It gets to a point where I start to question what future we will have in this city. We want to be home owners and we don’t want rent forever, especially as our landlord is a pain. But we just cannot compete in this market. We viewed an apartment to buy last week at an open viewing and overheard an older couple say to the broker ‘would you accept a full cash payment?’

I’m really intrigued as to what other people with similar positions to us think about their future. Will you leave Munich? Will you stay?

Thanks!

in Munichby wc6g10

92%

1mo

Masteries

122

1mo

Born in munich myself, I have seen lot of school friends leaving because they are not going to inherit. The rent increases during covid have been drastic and if you dont plan staying in the same apartment anymore, you have to pay market rents again and have a real problem.

Ownership is unattainable for most and is financially not rational either.

I dont see a situation where the prices really lower to be honest. Munich has always been a very attractive city and is going to stay one with very high probability.

tbimyr

1mo

Well, quite same, but I’m born here, my family lives here and I’m not paying 1.5 Mil for a house that’s touching another house.

Tldr: I’m staying. Without a house 🤷🏼‍♂️

DarkManX_BG

1mo

If buying a property to live in is that important to you, and you cannot afford to buy it in Munich, then it's not much of a question really. But if it's just an investment, surely you realize it doesn't have to be in Munich at all.

I have long accepted that I will rent at least for the next decade or so, and now view the idea of buying merely as one of many possible investments (and not necessarily a good one). It's been quite liberating really, our quality of life has never been better, especially since the apartment we rent right now would be impossible to buy and wouldn't hit the market anyway. But we did get lucky both on rent and on landlords.

Infinite_Sparkle

1mo

If you don’t have any family and nothing is keeping you in Munich, then consider moving to a mid-size city like Augsburg, Würzburg or Nürnberg that’s still big enough, is international and lively, has enough jobs and the housing market is way easier than in Munich.

Or if you have a job you can work a few days a week remote, then consider moving to the countryside 1-2h away from Munich and buying there.

If you ask me, I would prefer to move to a midsize city than living in the countryside and having to go 2h to work one way. I know people with kids that have done both. Without kids, you are more flexible. It’s a question of preference.

Otherwise: consider investing your money instead of buying property.

DeeJayDelicious

1mo

Unfortunately you're stuck in a "no-win" scenario.

Even a well-paid job doesn't ensure you can buy property in Germany. Especially not in or around Munich. You just can't compete with all the old money and inheritances floating around.

It is a shame, because so many well paid jobs are here and the environment makes it attractive. But that's also why people want to move here. So the appeal is also the problem.

That said, there is affordable property to be had in Germany. It's just not in cities. So if you can picture yourself living outside of a major hub, you might be able to get a good deal. Some East-German towns also offer good value for money.

Alternatively, paying rent your entire life is viable, if you invest that money instead. That 800.000€ you might have invested into a house, could also be returning 8% every year passively, simply by investing it into an ETF. That 8% is 64k / year and muss less than what you'd be paying in rent.

Turbulent_Bee_8144

1mo

You have to pay taxes on that 64k/year from the ETF, and someone who bought a house and enjoyed the same total returns would not have to pay any taxes when realizing those gains, if they lived in the property for 2 years or held it for 10 years as a landlord.

Main_Complex_2931

1mo

Interesting. those 2y are new to me. Need to follow up.

motorcycle-manful541

1mo

you absolutely have to pay property and 'land' tax

Turbulent_Bee_8144

1mo

Is it the same as the 26% on realized ETF gains?

motorcycle-manful541

1mo

I guess that's not really the point because the costs of owning and maintaining a house are also quite expensive over the years.

Turbulent_Bee_8144

1mo

If you live in it, then its an expense to keep your house livable. If you don't live in it, it can be deducted from the rent you get to reduce your income that you have to pay tax on. Yes, ETF investments are not 100% comparable to property investments. I am not too familiar with the property taxes but I do know they can be quite low on an ongoing basis but if you are renting it out your tenants would pay them as part of their rent.

justmisterpi

1mo

Renting for the rest of one's life is a valid option.

If you just look at the ratio of rent (*Jahres-Nettokaltmiete)*and purchasing price for a given property, you will notice that the ratio is very high in comparison to other big cities in Germany. In other words: Property prices are inflated and renting long-term is the financially more viable option (not taking into account the fact that both options are considerably more expensive than in other cities).

Sure_Sundae2709

1mo

The same argument had been often used to argue against buying property during much of the past 10 years. But you seem to miss an important part in your calculation: Increasing rents. Munich is the most expensive city in Germany to buy something but it will most likely see rents increase more in the long run. If rents double again, your calculation of renting longterm will probably look a lot different.

In general, the ratio of rents and pruchase prices is a dumb way to assess whether real estate prices are inflated or not. Where are increasing/decreasing rents, vacancies, demographic shifts or interest rates in that metric? Nowhere. But they all are obviously influencing what a property is worth.

justmisterpi

1mo

That property marked developed exceptionally in the last 15 years. Not only in Munich, but in all of Germany. But there were also times where property prices did not increase by much – and even developed negatively after adjusting for inflation.

In other words: Yes, rents can still increase more than the property prices – but it could also be the other way around. There is just no way to predict that.

In general, the ratio of rents and pruchase prices is a dumb way to assess whether real estate prices are inflated or not.

It's not. It's literally another way of expressing the annual return of your investment.

Sure_Sundae2709

1mo

In other words: Yes, rents can still increase more than the property prices – but it could also be the other way around. There is just no way to predict that.

What is the other way around? Property prices increasing faster than rents? Then today's prices aren't inflated as well.

There is just no way to predict that.

That's your personal view. There are many predictions about future demand and supply. Except for immigration, demographic shifts are extremely slow and easy to predict. The rough amount of construction can also be estimated. Sure, there is an error attached to it but basically all predictions I know expect Munich to grow, even the pessimistic ones.

It's not. It's literally another way of expressing the annual return of your investment.

No, it isn't because you neglect various important factors, most importantly central bank interest rates and expected rent growth. It's the midwit-way of talking about real estate investments. I still remember how 10 years ago, such midwits were talking about how every price over 20 times annual rent was expensive. Then everything over 25 and then everything over 30. They also expected that there was a big bubble around 2016/2017 already but latest 2019. But somehow that bubble didn't burst, not even during Covid or interest rate hikes. Now we have seen so much higher rents, real estate prices since and construction costs that absolutely nobody would say that 2019 prices were irrational. There is a reason why professional real estate investors look at many different KPIs and not just the ratio of rents to prices.

I_write_you_read

1mo

well you forget that rents are capped by the salaries, which tend to increase less fast than rents. Already now a lot of people can't afford 2-zimmer wohnungen, so soon there will be a cristal ceiling on how much rent people can ask as there will simply be too little demand

Sure_Sundae2709

1mo

And yet, there is really no reason why they shouldn't double again. According to the recent deloitte property index, Munich isn't even in the top ten expensive cities in Europe (without Switzerland of course). Dublin has more than 50% higher rents and even smaller Irish cities like Cork or Galway are more expensive. Even Madrid is in front of Munich and Lyon is very close. Do you actually think people in those cities earn more on average than in the German city with the highest wages? It's maybe the case for Dublin but I highly doubt the others. Plus, everything else being equal, Munich should have higher rents because building new apartments is much more expensive (Munich is number 5 for most expensive cities to build, worldwide!), due to vast regulations and general unwillingness to assign new land for building, than in those other cities. Also, rents are subsidised in Germany (Wohngeld), which further fuels them. If we look outside of Europe, people often spend way more for living than people do in Munich.

I am not saying 10k/sqm. for an apartment is healthy. But I am saying that due to the current environment, rents might skyrocket much more than many people want or can imagine and then it will soon look healthy again. Especially, I would always argue against a bubble if there are basically no vacancies and the cost of building something new is even higher than the current supply. The only scenario where I see property prices fall substantially is if the government finally does its job and deregulates the construction industry and assigns much more land to build on but this is super difficult because changes are needed to be done on many levels (federal government, state government and the city) and that's already on the table since several years without any progress. I also doubt that the inhabitants who already have an apartment want to tolerate new high-rises and less greenery in the surroundings, so changing something will be politically difficult already on city level. All-in building costs of less than 5k€ and a massive building initiative are needed to meaningfully change the picture.

kon_bick

1mo

Well, or Munich is just ahead of the curve. I hope not, but I just don't know

zypet500

1mo

The ratio is valid if you're looking at short term living costs. However, most people buy property to keep cost of living pegged against a 20-30 year horizon. The question is not whether it's cheaper now to pay a mortgage, it's whether in 20 years your mortgage will make more sense than the rent you'd pay in 20 years.

And when you retire and stop working, can people really afford to be paying rent? Or do you want a fully paid off housing? Property prices are inflated right now wrt how low salaries are. But if you can afford it, it might still make sense to buy than rent.

Damnreddit2

1mo

I’d recommended looking at properties outside Munich like Augsburg, Freising etc. They are smaller towns but much more peaceful and if you plan your travel well, you can reach the city within 45 mins.

99tulips

1mo

Agree! Also “the north” is cheaper than city centre but still on the U2… am hart / Feldmoching etc. also there is the big neufreiman development on heidelmanstr which will improve the shops / conveniences in the area (and the panzerweise is way quieter than englischer gardens)

Flexxonaut

1mo

Im in the same position. Sometimes it’s really demotivating. On the other hand, there is probably no better investment than a two room flat in Munich.

Logeekal

1mo

How did you reach the conclusion of a 2 room flat being the best investment in Munich?

Flexxonaut

1mo

In my opinion people want to live in the nice and interesting areas. By people I mean good earning people working for Microsoft, google, Apple, bmw … and there is just a limited amount in the Centre. The suburbs of Munich are boring, the S-Bahn a catastrophy. So it would surprise me if prices would go significantly down. But of course I cannot see into the future

madownss

1mo

There are indeed better investments.

Masteries

1mo

there is probably no better investment than a two room flat in Munich.

I disagree. Buy S&P 500 or World ETF and thank me in 30 years ;)

dd_mcfly

1mo

Yes, but the bank wouldn’t give you a credit to do so.

Turbulent_Bee_8144

1mo

Taxes make the difference between real estate and ETF investing.

rpj6587

1mo

But the thing is, I don't want an investment. I just want a place for me to live in that's my own!

carstenhag

1mo

My landylady renovated her 2nd apartment. The handymen fucked up the parquet flooring and she is suing them since half a year now, without the ability of actually getting the issue fixed & living there. Just one of the examples that owning an apartment can be pretty risky and time consuming

Mr-Jenberg

1mo

Hello everyone,

I understand your situation. We are in a similar situation, both in our mid-30s. We earn quite well (approx. 160-175K per year gross together). We have been thinking about this topic for a long time but decided against buying an apartment. Everything we like is close to 1 million euros. Even if we could get this money as a loan, I just don't think it's appropriate. Furthermore, I am certain that Munich will not remain that attractive. Many of my friends are moving out. The situation changes for most people once they have children.

Only with an inheritance or approximately 250K equity would I seriously consider it. Until then, we have bought a property abroad and are renting it out as a vacation home with a return of around 7-8%. We are happy and relaxed. Don't get stressed.

NurEinLeser

1mo

Why do you think munich wont stay attractive? But in general I agree, buying only makes sense with a lot of income.

Mr-Jenberg

1mo

Just my opinion but .....

Munich's attractiveness has declined significantly in recent years due to a number of factors:

High rents: Many companies can no longer find enough employees, as the high cost of rent deters many people, especially international professionals.

Remote work: Due to the high cost of living, many people work remotely for Munich-based companies from other German cities or abroad.

Infrastructure problems: The unreliable suburban rail system and long waits for medical appointments affect quality of life.

Difficult to build: Strict building codes and bureaucratic hurdles make new construction in Munich complicated and expensive.

Withdrawal of foreign capital: Investors are pulling out because high costs and difficult zoning regulations make returns less attractive.

Childcare: Childcare is difficult to find, which is problematic for young families.

Transit stop: For many, Munich is only a temporary stop, resulting in a less stable community.

Rising prices: Prices in almost every sector are rising faster than wages, increasing the financial burden on residents.

These factors mean that Munich has become less attractive to many people and businesses.

that_outdoor_chick

1mo

Those points are valid for any major city in Europe. Will it change anytime soon? Probably not. Does it make a sense to buy? For investment yes. Next 20 years are unlikely to change.

Cristian369369

1mo

All the problems you listed don’t just apply to Munich. They apply to entire Germany.

sonomakoma11

1mo

It's funny, this post came up because I'm traveling in Munich at the moment and it's like a carbon copy of posts in my current city in California. It's clear that this is an international problem.

emkay_graphic

1mo

I agree with your points. Though when you compare it with other big cities, London, Paris, Berlin, for me it is still quite attractive. Simply put, it is clean and the crime is low. No stabby-stabby gangs, no burning cars, no looting. It is really important for me, especially with a family.

I could buy a house at the rural areas in any second, but why would I want to move there? To take the kid to school everyday by car, cause the distances are so big? To look out from my head out of boredom, cause there are no events, culture around. I wouldn't not like that.

Informal_Wasabi_2139

1mo

To take the kid to school everyday by car, cause the distances are so big

cause there are no events, culture around.

These two parts show that you have no idea about the countryside in Germany.

You don't have to take your kid to school. The state provides public transportation.

There are events every weekend around me on the countryside. Not Taylor Swift concerts, but more rural events. Still a lot of things to do for people that want to go out.

Everything that I imagined the countryside would be, is the total opposite. With good and bad parts.

emkay_graphic

1mo

I have no idea? It is enough to state that I am wrong at certain points, no need to draw a profile about me. But this is the internet.
Anyways, yeah, I am lucky enough to live in the city and not some isolated cow-smelling village. But my Bavarian colleague built a house in a small place, and he told me that.
I am wrong about the schoolbus, cause I oversimplified the story. What I meant to say, that if your kid wanna go to a place, to an afterschool event, to a birthday party, parents have to act as a non-stop driving service, otherwise they are stuck there. Later on when the teenkid wanna have nightlife, it is a real struggle to get home.

"There are events every weekend around me on the countryside." - getting drink with other Bavarians and eating sausage is not that special for many of us XD, but nice try.

Informal_Wasabi_2139

1mo

isolated cow-smelling village

Funny because that is how munich smells at times.

getting drink with other Bavarians and eating sausage is not that special for many of us XD, but nice try.

That's not what I ment. I ment cultural events, from kids theater to concerts or sporting events. However you see the world through your lens...

humpink

1mo

NGL the diminishing foreign investments are a positive development, albeit them being an indicator the bubble is at a limit. As long as you can make money as an investor whilst keeping a building unoccupied, this shit is never going to cool down.

larrylustighaha

1mo

nobody keeps a building empty on munich, there's always a sucker paying the rent, doesn't matter how high

humpink

1mo

Sadly having them clear out for luxury renovations means that having a few flats empty while you're trying to rid yourself of renters is a reality. You sometimes don't want occupation, because you want new renters. Old contracts are usually paying less rent, have more rights and staying power. You can't time limit contracts for non-commercial contracts. So yeah, there are empty flats around.

Popular_Army_8356

1mo

I would argue that munich just attracts a different crowd. That is also why google, micrisoft, salesforce, etc are here. Well educated, previous work experience, specialist in sth, high income level, comparable to Geneva, Zurich, plus you have a net gain of 20-30k people every year. Supply on housing has stalled and no inventory left, plus decreasing interest rates - that is a great outlook for property gains in the short and mid term. I would be bullish on buying right now.

carstenhag

1mo

High rents, fewer employees

I really don't think this is the case. There are still heaps of people that want to join the largest german city with super easy access to nature & lots of other things. Pay is still good. Rent is high, sure, but matches the pay.

Infrastructure problems: The unreliable suburban rail system and long waits for medical appointments affect quality of life.

Underground, Tram and Bus lines are reliable. Only S-Bahn is unreliable. Medical appointments are not that difficult to get, especially with Doctolib.

Difficult to build

This is not a problem in itself. It's good that there are good requirements on housing. Should the bureaucracy get resolved faster and easier to dig through/get help? For sure, I agree on that.

Transit stop

Very typical for big cities.

The rest: More or less everywhere in Germany you will have some of these problems. No country is perfect unfortunately, let's make it better :)

odu_1

1mo

Munich today is too boring for a city and too messy and overpriced for a village.

spaaaaaz

1mo

Can you give examples of cities that are not boring per your criteria?

smajser

1mo

I’m going to start by saying Munich is expensive but so is Canada, France, UK, Netherlands, etc… it’s up to you to decide if Munich is a place you want to spend money in. Munich will probably remain as attractive as other big European cities. It’s always been expensive. I remember from a friend a 1998 contract for 50sqm in milbertshofen was about 850DM. Which was easily close to half of average net earnings back then. So it’s never really changed so much. Only you are winning now if you still have these old contracts.

If you are earning combined 160-175k. I don’t understand how you cannot afford “a” place in Munich. The reason everything you like is 1 million is because that’s what everyone else also probably likes. I’m not saying you should be forced to pay for something you don’t want. But with that combined salary I don’t think it’s impossible. You can potentially find places for about 6000€sqm now vs more closer to 10000€ at the beginning of 2022.

For example I’ve seen even 50sqm for 300.000€. With 50.000€ down the payments would be between 1200-1500€ a month in mortgage depending on your setup.

AdChance4599

1mo

I fully agree with this, if you take a look a bit outside of city center, there are many decent flats in Munich with a good ubahn connection.

If you earn combined close to or above 150k it should not be a problem. I think people are just too picky.

Main_Complex_2931

1mo

50sqm 1 Mio €

https://www.legat-living.de/maxhoefe.html

smajser

1mo

New and Maxvorstadt. That is not shocking. Look how much a place is in London, Paris, etc…

Don’t mistake me for trying to say it’s affordable or something. I think it’s way overpriced for what it is. But real estate has always been location location location.

Main_Complex_2931

1mo

It’s way overpriced indeed. And it’s new and on the market since about 1y. Even the people who wouldn’t care about the money and who would love to live in the heart of Maxvorstadt are not spending it on this. This building is finished and seemingly half empty. Next to it is a huge hole. A construction site that got delayed now for at least 1y…

It seems to me that this market is very binary.

ShamDynasty

1mo

Where did you buy?

Mr-Jenberg

1mo

South of Spain , costa Blanca…there are many opportunities

Moderator removed comment

1mo

Munich-ModTeam

1mo

Engaging in any form of negative generalizations, prejudices or insults directed towards individuals or groups is strictly forbidden, and will, in most cases, result in a temporary ban. Your first warning was clearly stated in our subreddit rules.

Any act of doxxing (posting addresses, phone numbers, personal information) will result in an immediate and permanent ban from the platform.

deucalion1994

1mo

Do you have to pay taxes in Spain for owning a house as a non spanish resident?

doritos_lover1337

1mo

in which country did you buy a house? turkey? croatia?

Embarrassed-Golf-657

1mo

I've resigned myself to renting forever.

thewanderinglorax

1mo

We‘ll probably leave when my wife finishes medical school at TUM as well. We would literally make 4x more collectively in the US compared to what we would make in Germany.

With the local salaries we can’t even be sure we‘d be able to afford to buy the apartment we live in currently.

Dangerous-Okra-2669

1mo

Look at the student debts that doctors have to pay back in the US. The higher salaries in the us come with a price.

thewanderinglorax

-2

1mo

That’s why we chose for my wife to get a free education here. :)

devjohn023

1mo

Parasitic behavior is what erodes the standard of many ;)

thewanderinglorax

1mo

Haha. You're probably the same type of person who believes that Angela Merkel is the devil because she's a woman from the former east who got an education and instead of staying as a homemaker decided to pursue a career.

Everyone has the right to pursue the best path for them. My wife is German, was born and raised here. Her parents work and pay taxes here. She's followed all the steps to get where she is today.

If you want to blame anyone you should point that blame at the government for not making it more attractive to stay.

doritos_lover1337

-5

1mo

ye and then you could easily get shot on the streets. no thanks

thewanderinglorax

1mo

Yeah, there’s definitely an increased risk of gun violence, but let‘s be honest. The demographics matter and the majority of gun related homicides occur within specific demographics. I’m planning on living in a state with strict gun laws and in a safe neighborhood.

Pinocchio98765

1mo

Stay but rent. There is literally no benefit of buying where we are (shitty 1960s Doppelhaushälfte for 800k) compared to renting. You might say that we are wasting money on rent but the shitty Doppelhaushälfte was 900k a couple of years ago while in the meantime our ETFs are up 20-40% over the same period.

Informal_Wasabi_2139

1mo

I am curious if you compared the ETFs and house prices last year or 2 years ago if it would also look the same

larrylustighaha

1mo

2 years view is not a helpful frame of reference when talking about a life time investment

Informal_Wasabi_2139

1mo

Them compare house prices + rent received in Munich over a 20 year span. But no matter what I tell you, you would probably dodge it.

You know how they say: You can't wake a man who is pretending to be asleep.

user-name-2303

1mo

We were in the same boat - it is pointless to live renting your whole life, you are throwing out of the window thousands of euros every month instead of having it invested in an asset. The thing that made us take the leap was becoming a parent. We soon realised our stay in Munich had an expiration date.

So we opted for Vienna, almost zero childcare costs compared to Munich, rents way lower and real estate really accessible. Our household income decreased slightly by 10k, yet less taxes and lower costs increase considerably our purchasing power.

Just consider two cost factors: - 3 room apartment in Munich 2.200€ vs Vienna 1600€ - kita for the baby in Munich 650-1000€ (private as public there are no spots) vs Vienna 165€

BenderDeLorean

1mo

I lived in Munich since 1897 and my kids where born there.

Bought a house far away as the prices became too crazy.

If you have an old contract then congratulations, if you need to find something new (we had Eigenbedarf) then good luck. Fiends are renting a 4 room apartment for 2200€. That's one income for them

I am not happy that so many friends are far away in the city and there are some down sites. On the other hand I now my own garden and peace.

bertvansneijder

1mo

How are you do old jfc

AlohaAstajim

1mo

The oldest person in the world apparently. 😂

BenderDeLorean

1mo

You can't belive how affordable every thing was back that days...

Ooops. 1987 is correct.

yakpig

1mo

Go back to any decade and the same arguments were made - too expensive, ridiculous, etc.. If you can afford to buy in then do it. Stick around for 20 years. That's how it works.

BenderDeLorean

1mo

How are you do old jfc

What?

Responsible_Owl3

1mo

I lived in Munich since 1897

BenderDeLorean

1mo

Not gonna change it...

(1987 is correct of course)

PinotRed

1mo

Good evening, my Graf.

amdnim

1mo

lived in Munich since 1897

Were you ever able to catch an Igor Stravinsky concert live?

Dr_Semenov

Local

1mo

My partner and I are in the IT industry, and despite our stable incomes, we find it nearly impossible to afford a basic apartment in Munich. It’s insane that two working professionals cannot secure a modest place to live. Housing should be a fundamental right and not a luxury reserved for those with deep pockets or family wealth.

The situation is disheartening, and we are seriously considering leaving Munich. It's troubling that a couple with good jobs can’t afford a home, highlighting a severe issue in the housing market. Families need a stable foundation, and the current state of affairs makes it unattainable for many. I hope more of us speak out about this and push for changes that make housing more accessible.

justforkinks0131

1mo

I came to Munich for Uni, stayed for my career. Over 12 years now.

I am considering moving, because I havent bought a house yet (at least not here) and with these prices I dont think it's worth it.

Considering how my company pays the same salary regardless of cost of living, I can move to a way cheaper location near Munich and just work remotely.

expatriad

1mo

Me and my wife (both late thirties + 2 kids) are looking to buy and relocate to the Bodensee area. With hybrid and remote roles in IT we believe is a much better value for your money as we have found the property prices are somewhat 40% less than in MUC.

Mean_Einstein

1mo

I was listening to an interview with the mayor, Dieter Reiter (SPD), about housing in Munich a couple of years ago, pre COVID for sure. He said if the housing prices are the same in like 5 years, we did something correctly. So the political goal is not to decrease prices but rather stabilize them, which sounds not very ambitious, but knowing the situation in Munich, that's already a huge undertaking. Prices in munich only know one way and that's up.

But honestly I somehow think there might be a tipping point soonish. People who only stay in the city for the job and not for the family, enjoyment or culture that Munich has to offer, will move, eventually.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

2 years Ago it was 11k/m². Now it dropped to 8k/m². Prices fall a lot in munich. But the interest rate is still at 3.5%. You need to wait a few years till it drops more. Than you can get some good deals while the prices are still low.

Informal_Wasabi_2139

1mo

Is that what your crystal ball said?

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

That is was the EZB is doing. First 0,25% interest cut will come next month.

carstenhag

1mo

If his goal is to lower the worth of properties, he will not get elected. The houses/flats are owned by people that vote. They don't want to get their investment cut

yakpig

1mo

Not true. Prices only go up because salaries go up and somewhat due to building shortage. Same thing happens in Bay area and LA in California and has been for 40 years.

Mean_Einstein

1mo

So it's true? Salaries go up, yes, but only for a relatively small group which makes disproportionately more money than the rest. People working for the City, in Öffentlicher Dienst, don't make double the money that their colleges in East Germany make. Also, if you ever have been to the Bay area, it's just madness. People are homeless because they can't pay rent anymore, despite having an education and a job.

Charduum

1mo

We will leave Germany eventually, when we are ready to settle down and have property

MOTVS19

1mo

We are both working in Munich and just waiting to have enough money to move to Spain. Houses there are still affordable for a German salary. So in a couple years we are hopefully able to move. If you have a house, it should be manageable even with shit Spanish pay.

mrmarbury

1mo

We are leaving. We will still move to a city that’s expensive but it will still be around 1/3 cheaper than Munich. Munich‘s rents are ridiculous. Also in recent years I am more and more under the impression that Munich is in kind of a downfall in general. There are more and more places that are just dirty, littered and run down. We would be able to afford the rent of a new place but we just don’t want to. We currently pay ~15€/m2 which is pricy anyway. But cheap for Munich. A new flat would change this to 20-25€/m2 depending where you look. It’s ridiculous.

odu_1

1mo

I second the “dirty and rundown” observation, it keeps fascinating me how no one here is noticing it and keeps repeating this “MuNIch IS cLeaN just look at Berlin or Duisburg or Chicago or Stabbinghampton or whatever shithole that otherwise comes to mind” mantra while the city government gave up on even trying to keep places like Stachus clean, is not even capable to equip the city with modern decent street lighting and lets historical buildings and bridges rot in graffiti. And every Sunday with nice weather it is impossible to find a garbage bin that is not overflown with litter laying around in a 1m radius.

mrmarbury

1mo

Oh I don’t mind graffiti at all. It’s more the trash that fills the city more and more while Munich as a whole behaves like spoilt brat. Also what other city has destroyed their club scene in a way that you can have to go to a museum to see the remnants? It’s so sad.

Kryztof-Velo

1mo

I 100% agree, when I go for a walk I see trash everywhere. 99% from fastfood, cigarette butts and empty coffee cups.

gimmemorebeer

1mo

Where r u moving to

mrmarbury

1mo

We’re moving to Hamburg. Rent for our flat there is equal to the rent we pay now for the flat we live in since 2011. but it’s not just for the rent. We want to be closer to friends and the places we love. But Munich rent pushes us further. You can basically never move again in Munich AND put away some money for bad times or your retirement. Also the music culture is way more present in HH and people are way nicer. The often cited Munich grumpiness just falls on my nerves so bad as well. And it gets ever more trashy. WHY ARE THERE NO TRASH CANS?!? What’s your problem Munich?

carstenhag

1mo

Sorry, it won't magically get better in a different big city.
Plus, I really don't think there's a lack of trash bins in Munich. If you mean the missing yellow bins: agree

Surtlogi93

1mo

Full Cash payment for houses is illegal nowadays.
If you cant compete the answer is easy, you will have to look elsewhere. All the people I know who can afford to buy houses or even flats in munich have family money. And the market will not change any time soon, maybe never. People who come here always underestimate how much money some families in munich have. The difference to for example the US is that not everybody shows it that much. I have been to the US and the sheer amount of showing off wealth was astonishing to me to the point I felt uncomfortable.

blobblet

1mo

Full Cash payment for houses is illegal nowadays.

It's possible that the elderly couple was just signalling they'll use 100% own capital and won't need bank financing (cash vs debt, not cash vs bank transfer), which is somewhat beneficial for the seller because it expedites the sale.

hecho2

1mo

In this context people say cash in the sense “own funds” and not literally paying in cash.

Surtlogi93

1mo

Ah sorry, it was the german in me 🤣

bludgersquiz

1mo

Why is it illegal?

Surtlogi93

1mo

Because the law finally changed. https://koehl-jetter.de/immobilie-bar-bezahlen/ Paying in cash for houses and flats was used for years to launder money especially by rich people who didnt need the tax break anyways and by criminals.

Aquaticdigest

-1

1mo

That is completely crazy. So if you save & invest over 20-30 years and then want to buy a house full cash by selling other assets, its not possible?

Surtlogi93

1mo

It is possible. But it has to be bought via bank transfer.

TwitchyBald

1mo

Simply leave. It is all about demand. At the moment more people are willing to pay stupid high rent / money to purchase a property.

UnderstandingOver911

1mo

For me leaving is an option - price/value is just out of the world and there are other places to live in.

Long term goal: achieve a high level of remote work and then move towards the mountains (e.g. Allgäu)

assasin196

1mo

I left personally for another city because even though Munich is ‘fine’ it’s not worth the hype. Jobs are abundant but salaries do not live up to the expenses in Munich at all. If I can i will move either to London or Middle East in future where the salaries would eventually live up to the living expenses.

DummeStudentin

1mo

I'll try to move to the US (or Switzerland if that doesn't work) after I graduate from TUM. Staying in Germany is just not worth it financially.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Healthcare in us is knocking on the door. Childcare in switzerland enters the Chat.

You need to live in Augsburg in a small room for rent, work in munich for 4k+ net and put 3k every month in an etf like s&p500. In 15-20years you would have a million € Networth. That is the way.

DummeStudentin

1mo

Your points aren't wrong, but they depend very much on one's individual situation.

Healthcare in us is knocking on the door.

Afaik, US health insurance premiums aren't income dependent, which is good for high income earners.

Childcare in switzerland enters the Chat.

Not everyone wants to have children. I won't, that's for sure.

You need to live in Augsburg in a small room for rent, work in munich for 4k+ net and put 3k every month in an etf like s&p500. In 15-20years you would have a million € Networth. That is the way.

This may be a way to build some wealth in Germany, but don't forget that you have to pay like 30% in taxes every time you sell shares or get paid a dividend.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Ever heard growth stocks? They dont give dividends. Like nvidia, Microsoft, Google, meta etc. And 2000€ per year is tax free anyway as couple. Buy and hold. No need to sell any stocks.

DummeStudentin

1mo

What's the point of holding forever if they don't pay dividends? Live poor, die rich?

And 2000€ per year is tax free anyway as couple.

Less than 1k per person. As if that would make a difference.

carstenhag

1mo

What's the point of holding forever if they don't pay dividends

The Zinseszinseffekt is bigger when you aren't paying taxes on the yet-to-be-taxed amount.

That's why you should definitely use the 1000€ per year, but apart from that, accumulating ETFs are better because you barely get taxed at all in the investment phase (only Vorabpauschale applies).

DummeStudentin

1mo

That makes sense. It's better to pay these 30% or whatever as late as possible.

Anyway, in Germany you'll always have to pay the tax eventually, although the invested money was already heavily taxed when it was earned.

This is better in the US and in Switzerland. Depending on the state, income taxes are much lower, and capital gains are only taxed at 15% in the US (for annual taxable income between 44k and 492k) and 0% in Switzerland.

Few-Scholar-7448

-1

1mo

U only need 600-900k till you can go financial independent retire early. Then move to Thailand, Dubai, malta, cypriss... you pay 0% there for your stock earnings... you are not really financially educated arent you?

DummeStudentin

1mo

Maybe I just prefer living in a first world country with a decent income rather than living like a poor student for 20 more years, just so I can sit on my ass doing nothing in a low cost of living country for the rest of my life. 🤷🏼‍♀️

U only need 600-900k till you can go financial independent retire early.

This is the bare minimum. For a decent standard of living, it's more like a few million.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

I never said i dont wanna work till 70. I said, you would be financially independentend and can retire early or work what u want.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

No its only 600k. For live better than 50%

DummeStudentin

1mo

50% of Germans or 50% of the world population?

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

With 600k you have 4k net per month to spend. Its way more than 50%.

1mo

1mo

1mo

Are you alright?

Turbulent_Bee_8144

1mo

Sounds like a miserable existence. In fact it sounds like migrant workers in the Gulf states.

MasterDroid97

1mo

Left half a year ago.

AdGuilty5107

1mo

We are leaving towards Frankfurt.

The second child is on its way and there is no way we can buy or even rent properly in Munich. We are buying a building plot just outside Frankfurt for 200k and with another 450k get a decent house for ourselves.

Munich isn't worth it with kids. Rent is increasing with every child as of its a working grown up, while your income doesn't.

odu_1

1mo

IMHO Munich is getting more and more overrated, it had its peak pre-COVID when the engineering and software branches were booming, especially around automotive. Currently the trend is downwards, lots of people I know who initially moved here for high-earning jobs in 2017-2019 are leaving to Switzerland/London/whatever, cost of living is growing while the level of customer service and gastronomy is sinking, the city itself is boring (with the city authorities trying very hard to keep it that way), has nothing to offer except some nature during good weather and the Alps nearby.

Mr-Jenberg

1mo

True!

erroredhcker

1mo

although im a big nature guy and access to the Alps was really a huge highlight of my time here, my Schadenfreude would be immense the day tech bros finished razing Munich like it did LA and SF by choking out the blue collars. The disrespect among some of my colleagues, and people say the youngins are progressive.

jblangworthy

1mo

My girlfriend and I completed the purchase of our apartment in Munich 6 months. We got very lucky because our landlord wanted to sell and we could afford it (734k for the apartment + 26k tax + 15k notary). But honestly, it was a 50/50 decision and I'm not sure I would make the same one again. It doesn't make sense in terms of a pure financial investment, and the renters rights are so strong in Germany that you really can make a rental your longterm home. But we are also happy to call something our own, though it doesn't change our lives except that we have 1.5k less disposable income per month now :)

winter-2016

1mo

How big is it and in which district? 1.5k payment/ month means you have to bring a lot of capital for down payment I guess.

GobbyPlsNo

1mo

I guess its more than 1.5k, since they way it is phrased i would guess its 1.5k + the rent before - So more like 3-4k/month.

ambidextrousalpaca

1mo

We're staying, and moving into a housing cooperative: a Wohnung Gemeinschaft. These are a sort of compromise between buying and renting. You make an income based capital contribution - which you can get a subsidized mortgage for - which is going to be a maximum of 15% of the market value of the place you're moving into and in return you get permanently nominally fixed rent which is around 50% of the market rate when you move in. There's a lot more to it than that, and there are a lot of pros and cons, but those are the hard numbers. I don't want to be a property speculator. I just want affordable security of tenure that lets me stay in this awesome city, and this seems to be the most straightforward way to get it.

KaijuBioroid

1mo

We bought because we’re staying and couldn’t justify paying off someone else’s mortgage any longer.

On the other hand we know several couples who moved away from Munich and sought career opportunities elsewhere because they didn’t want to pay the high home prices or couldn’t afford to.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Rent for 2k and put 700k in an ETF would be financially better to buy a house for your own. Just my 2 cents

KaijuBioroid

1mo

The way we looked at it is 2K each month into a 1% mortgage to build equity over 20 years instead of paying off someone else’s equity. We still have 700K+ in various ETFs and investments

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Buy 7 small rooms instead and get someone in to pay you rent. But you live for rent. Never ever live in your own house.

anon-cypher

1mo

It is difficult unless you are an nvidia employee. /s

Iil_Mirror8080

1mo

LEAVE

Dry-Helicopter8163

1mo

a couple of years ago (close to the end of the pandemic) we (mid 30s,married, no kids, no "family money") decided to leave munich (and germany) behind us and pursue career opportunities in switzerland. Working in switzerland for at least 5 years will put us in a position where we can consider buying a flat, but honestly...looking at the prices they are still (and will most likely always be) detached from what i consider good value for your money. We will return to munich sometime in the future because for us it offered a lot of what we somehow cannot find here (in zurich).

Beside friends and family - also the restaurant and bars are something I absolutely miss whole-heartedly.
So our situation is different than yours, but even with our two well-paid jobs we would have never been able to afford something in the range of 1 mio and above. It's sad, also to see that the rents continue to force people to leave munich - maybe it is not worth going back there in a couple of years from now?

Mr-Jenberg

1mo

Just out of curiosity, what do you miss in Zurich?
What is there in Munich that is not in Zurich?

Dry-Helicopter8163

1mo

Hard to explain, but let me try:
Growing up in Munich of course i got accustomed to a lot of the bars, boazn and in-between places that contributed a lot to the emotional ties/roots that i'd be missing no matter if there'd be better alternatives around here in Zurich or not. I spent the last 3 years located in Sendling, you just needed to step foot outside of your door and would basically be surrounded by great places to spend time (and ofc money) in. Despite not speaking bavarian (didnt pick it up in my 34 years of munich residency, sorry mom) i feel instantly at home when surrounded by typical bavarian places (Bräustüberl, Biergarten etc). In my experience the overall tone of people in munich can be described as rather unfriendly, reluctant to interact and pessimistic - not the most flattering description, but once i got used to it i also fell in love with it.

In Zurich i have tried a lot of places, but i just dont see that "typical/special" attribute - of course the swiss culture has a lot to offer, it's just that the cities vibe does not catch me in the way munich (or other cities) did. It gives me the impression of a cultural melting pot that still struggles to find its own identity, with a lot of people preferring english over the "official" languages and minimal exposure to local culture. Of course this is just an impression (or my way of trying to articulate it) - not meaning any offense with it, we enjoy our time here and still hope the sparks fly at some point in time...

Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

-4

1mo

our two well-paid jobs we

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.
Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

NeilArmShlong

1mo

I think you are exaggerating a bit here. For 700k you can find a decent 2BR that won't need any work done to it. The situation is bad, but not THAT bad.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

You can get that for 150k in augsburg. And just drive 20min with the ICE to munich.

Lunxr_punk

1mo

Idk what to tell you OP, same boat, if you find a million bucks somewhere then the stuff changes but you are right, even if you get a 700k place it’ll probably be kind of ass, and that’s already a shit ton of money

GeneralSpinach1592

1mo

Buy in Augsburg or Nürnberg instead. Or in Magdeburg..do not invest in Munich.

PinotRed

1mo

We left for Austria. Bought a house here. We‘re very happy here.

olfino

1mo

Long story short: Prices have dropped in the last 2 years, but doesn't matter, if you don't have a lot of cash.

We have seen an unprecedented increase in prices for buying property since the money-printing era of 201x. It's no surprise that thus prices skyrocketed, if you could buy a house in Munich with only 10% equity financing at super low interest rates. Paying 1% interest for 1M€ => Less than 1k€ in financing costs per month. No wonder people just pumped money into housing.

Higher interest rates have already lead to a significant price decreases because there is no buyer market anymore. Doesn't help anyone though, because now only people with enough cash on the side can afford to buy.

Will the prices drop further? Who knows, but wouldn't bet on it. Will they increase? Only if interest rates drop, otherwise we are back to 199x and 200x price increases, which were quite moderate.

I will stay in the cheaper Munich suburbs, because my home town south of Munich is even more expensive. I will only buy, if I am forced to switch as our current rent is still from the pre-interest increase times, thus while being high, still better than what you get now.
I have checked other places in Germany like Berlin and Hamburg. And for a good location, you also pay there sums nowadays, which have been more linked to Munich...

It's a pity.

larasol

1mo

If landlord is a pain and you want to be home owners and also don‘t have actual plans to leave then I would have an appointment with a mortgage advisor to see your options. Set a target price and start looking at properties until you find that makes sense to you. Prices are insane but so are also rents nowadays and they get crazier each year. I would still prefer to pay the bank rather than rent. Munich prices are only going up, so many good companies are just expanding and the university is one of the best in Germany. I think only time will tell if its a good financial decisions and you can also rent it out if you decide to leave.

m4ius

1mo

Think about what you value and what you want for live. If you want a big house with a garden or pool you either own already, move somewhere else or better become a millionaire. If you have to life in Munich for what ever reason, ask yourself if it’s worth it. Is there anything to unique it offers to you? For us it was very easy: We moved back to our home town. For kids nice smaller towns or the countryside have way more to offer, it’s way more relaxed (open the door, let the kids run out to play) and you won’t have the time to enjoy museums or concerts that often anyways. Can still get a nice hotel for all the money you still save the few times you do.

Noxm

1mo

Born in munich and we just bought a flat last year in pasing. Prices went down so much over the ladt 2-3 years, that‘s crazy right now you can really make a steal. When we started searching for a flat prices for a 4 room flat were over 1.000.000€. Now you can get something for 800.000€ which means prices came down by 20%.

The only problem is, that only people sell now who have to. I would never sell now a flat if I don‘t really have to. I even thought about selling my 2 room flat because I‘m not a big fan of being a landlord but I changed my mind because I don‘t want to burn money now. I rather wait more years (and rent it out jn between) and sell it when prices go back to normal.

winter-2016

1mo

How much did it cost you for the 2-room apartment in Pasing?

Noxm

1mo

This was in laim, now we went to a 3 room because we got a baby. The 3 room was at roundabout 650k

Exotic-Draft8802

1mo

I left Munich. After "Eigenbedarfskündig" I had to pay 1650€/month in Germering for 66m². Now my credit for a 165m² house on a 700m² property in Bavaria costs the same. 1.5h by train to Munich, 30min to Passau. I don't regret the move.

Dangerous-Okra-2669

1mo

I guess it's my favourit big city in Germany but the more conservative and closer to 40 I get, the more absurd it feels to stay here. It's a nice place to hang out with friends at the english garden, or spending the summer at the Isar river, I never felt the same vibe in any other major german city. Even though it's a little too crowded to truely relax for my taste.

However, it's not just rent, also the insane kita costs which doesn't make it a deal for a rather slower lifestyle with kids. Sitting in park and having a pick nick is nice, but it's still not the same as having your own garden which is considerd a luxury here.

supreme_mushroom

1mo

I'd recommend talking to a financial advisor and also working out your financial goals.

Owning a house is an important financial goal in many countries, but in Germany, there are many other ways to invest that work out just as well, but it depends on your situation.

HovercraftFinancial2

1mo

Been here for 4 months already, I'm leaving in July. I can't believe how much I'm paying for the shithole I'm in, and the city is all a Baustelle anyways.

Munich, at least right now, is no deal for me.

Yolobi7878

1mo

Leave. Munich is overcrowded.

Breatnach

1mo

Munich born and bred. Left 5 years ago. It sucks, but we simply couldn’t afford it.

We now live about 100kms outside, but luckily my job doesn’t require me to commute.

Western-Ad7766

1mo

We bought a very nice house in a village that is only 25 minutes by train from Munich Hauptbahnhof (20 minutes to Ostbahnhof) for 750k. We get a garden, nice neighborhood, fantastic view of the Alps, and a faster commute to work than when we lived in Munich city.

Adventurous-Tea-46

1mo

Which village of that?

Western-Ad7766

1mo

A dorf near Aßling (2 stops to Ostbahnhof). Though it is similar for any station between Grafing and Rosenheim. Huge numbers of Munich commuters (including many in tech jobs) live in villages that are 5-10 minutes from these train stations.

[deleted]

1mo

Some comments:

Wanna live in munich? Move to augsburg 😭😂

j_fonte8

1mo

honest question, is munich building enough houses?

Main_Complex_2931

1mo

What about buying something that you rent out for 10y to save taxes and finance the property. Is that scheme working well?

thewanderinglorax

1mo

I think you can either move further outside Munich and buy or stay in Munich and rent. It makes no sense to buy in Munich. The apartment we live in costs something like 50 years of our current kalt rent. Even if we can afford to buy our apartment It doesn't make any sense to.

emkay_graphic

1mo

Probably you are right. You can think of it as a strong asset for you and for your kids though.

hecho2

1mo

Inheritance tax says hi!

emkay_graphic

1mo

How hardcore is that?

tofudoener

Neuhausen

1mo

How much do you earn? Possibly you can use München Modell - allowing you to rent or buy properties for a decent price.

Myself, I'm not into owning property. So much hassle. I live in a Genossenschaft and enjoy the best of both worlds - as flexible as renting, as stable as ownership. My flat is in a great condition and location - would never be able to buy sth imilar.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Münchener Modell ist nur für Geringverdiener. Jeder normale Job in München ist über deren Grenze.

tofudoener

Neuhausen

1mo

Quatsch. 51k für Single, 116k für 4-Personen-Hasuhalt.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Das sind 15k weniger als mein Einstiegsgehalt.

tofudoener

Neuhausen

1mo

Na herzlichen glückwunsch. Aber 51K dürften ungefähr das Münchner Median-Bruttoeinkommen sein, und somit weit weg von Geringverdiener.

Manche Leute und ihre Bubbles, ey....

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Wer als Akademiker unter 60k einsteigt, der kann gleich in Augsburg arbeiten.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

57k ist das median brutto übrigens in muc.

Few-Scholar-7448

1mo

Bildungsgrad: Beschäftigte mit einem Hochschulabschluss verdienen in München mit einem Median-Wert von 65.000 Euro deutlich mehr als Beschäftigte ohne akademischen Hintergrund, die nur auf 48.000 Euro kommen.

winter-2016

1mo

Yes, the cost of owning properties here is very high. But besides old money, professionals are earning well in Munich. Well but not super great as tax is high. Dual income couples in their 30s here typically earn 150-200k. Salary for a senior position should be from 80k/year. Let alone employees and managers at big firms and big tech, they earn very well. So, the competition for 500-1M apartments and houses is tough.

I’ve been living in Munich for 8 years now and have experienced quite similar feelings as OP, multiple times over the years. I think the market for salaried employees is before covid, when the interest rate was low. At 200k/year, you will easily qualify for 1M loan. Now, the market shifted to cash buyers. Think of older families with bigger savings, small to medium business owners.

All I’m saying is there’s reasons for the high cost of properties in Munich and surroundings. What you get for the price is ridiculous. But it is what is …

Rand0thr0n

1mo

Leave

Few-Scholar-7448

-1

1mo

Why buy? Get a WG and pay only 700€ warm

Few-Scholar-7448

-1

1mo

[Image]

Oh they pay no dividends...soo dump to invest... your Name checks out.

bimbomann

-10

1mo

If you have well paying job and can't manage to take a 650k credit, you're doing smth wrong. Either you didn't save or you don't want to change your lifestyle.

I understand that its impossible if you spend 1,2 Million Euros. Almost nobody can carry this financial burden.

But 650k is possible. You'd have to save a lot of money by not eating out or not having a fancy car. But if you really want to be a home owner, that's what it takes sometimes.

stratomaster00

1mo

Sure thing, but with 650k you‘ll get an old flat with 55 m2 and two rooms outside the city center. So..

MasterDroid97

1mo

See those Gen-Z eating all their fancy avocados? This is the reason they can't afford a house /s

bimbomann

1mo

If you have a well paying job in munich you'll earn at least 70k a year gross. Since they both have well paying jobs, i presume they gross household income is around 140k a year gross. That's around 6500-7000 per month net for them both. If you as a couple can't save at least 1500 Euros a month for equity from this household income its definitely their lifestyle.

A 200m² piece of land with 100m² house (built new) is around 700k in the surrounding areas of munich (i know for a fact that a m² land in Anzing is 1500, in Gilching as well as it is in Feldkirchen).

It's absolutely possible. But its not gonna be a piece of cake, that's for sure.

MasterDroid97

1mo

I'll rather stick to my Avocados, thanks

anon-cypher

1mo

This is a plan. Good response.

nixass

1mo

Ahhh yes.. "don't eat avocado toast" type of advice

sharkism

1mo

You seem to have complete misunderstood OPs post. 650k gets you nowhere, this is the bare minimum to buy the worst objects of the city. The needed cost on top of 100k I would call optimistic and yes they are almost always mandatory, the bank will not lend you money if you can't sustain the value of their collateral. 1 Million is realistic.

bimbomann

1mo

It isn't. Friends of mine bought a house just a year ago for 600k. It's near Dachau, but still. A colleague of mine is about to buy a 100square meter house with 200square meter land for 750k in Feldkirchen.

I'm gonna build a house next year and you can build for 3000 Euros per square meter. Land is 1500 Euros where i live (20mins to City by car, 35 by public transport). So you can absolutely build a new house for 650-700k. You're not gonna have anything special or big, but you will have a house on your own piece of land.

The problem is not that people with well paying munich jobs can't afford houses anymore because they can (albeit not at fucking Stachus and of course and not a palace), its that people with normal jobs can't anymore.

winter-2016

1mo

Which town is it? I’m genuinely curious because I have been searching but found none. I agree with many things you said here. People who want to make it need to make compromises.

5 missing replies