Rainier without a guide

There are guides that are better than others. And some might cater to a group that does need which side to put a backpack on. Lumping them all together is a mistake.

A problem though is if you don't hire one for just you or your group you might end up with Mr Backpack in your group. That's a group problem, not a guide problem. They need to work with the least common denominator. In some groups that might be you, since maybe you wind up in a group proficient in glacier travel already.

So you could shop around. A good guide is really an instructor, a way for you to extend your knowledge and limits.

If your goal is to get to the top /and/ build a skill set for future climbs, you could look at a glacial skills seminar on Rainier. These programs inckude several days of teaching rope skills so you know how to rope up on glaciers and perform crevasse rescue, and they culminate with an attempt of the DC route.  Regarding "scariness," people die on Rainier every year. Rainier is heavily glaciated (unlike Hood's standard route) and larger, with worse weather. It doesn't have the same steep terrain you'd find in the pearly gates, but it has other hazards the other mountains you've listed don't.  If you're set on climbing without a guide, I'd take a crevasse rescue course and try to make connections with people in the course as potential partners. Climb Adams and Baker with them, make sure you work well together, and then go for Rainier.

Edit: adding that the DC is a "beginner-friendly" guided route, meaning that you don't need mountaineering experience to be on a guided climb. You may end up with Mr. Backpack. You could avoid this by finding 7 other like-minded and similarly experienced folks and booking a private climb, which would still be similarly priced

Rainier is different from every other peak in Washington and Oregon, and significantly for intensive, worrying about getting taught something you already know is silly, you should take in every piece of knowledge that you possibly can form guides, even if you feel they are “babying” you, there job is to ensure you make it to the top as safely as possible, the ways they achieve that is extremely useful knowledge you can use for yourself forever.

Being from out of state and not having a group is alone a big problem, you need to find someone to go with that is equally or more experienced than you and have taken some form of glacier travel and crevasse rescue classes.

There is a lot of research needed for rainier that guides can fast track you through, if you want to do it unguided it’s possible, just make sure you are well aware of the current route and the gear you will bring

I have slightly more experience than you do, and have taken crevasse rescue. (st Helen’s 5x, Hood 3x, Adams 2x, and an aborted-due-to-weather Shasta, countless South Sister climbs.)

I am a local. I would not climb Rainier without a guide.

Get involved with the mountaineers, a meetup group or some other climbing forums and make some climbing friends that are at a similar spot as you.

No one needs to be guide level skilled but you all should have some basic knowledge of crevasse rescue and rope work.

First off, I think you are on the right track in terms of some skeptism in your thought process, and your progression track is right on taking a crevasse rescue course. That said, the focus of those courses are fundamentally how to get yourself or a team mate out of a crevasse, which is important. But the part about keeping yourself from falling into a crevasse can't really be taught in a course and comes with experience of being out on glaciers. So while it means something, it and of itself I don't think is a qualification for being "experienced" to just immediately jump into the deep end without some other mentorship.    

Rainier is a different animal IMO than the other peaks you have done. It's true that in the right conditions, it can be pretty straightforward. In the last few years, the mountain has been impacted quite a bit by hotter summers and milder winters, so I don't think going forward that will be the case as much. That all said I personally don't think Rainier should be anybody's first venture into crevassed territory where you are the one making decisions for your own or others safety. I'd maybe look to doing things like Baker or other glaciated stuff first to build your resume up first if you want to avoid a guide (which I get and am all for). I think that will put you in a much better starting position for planning your own climb. Or if you really want to jump straight to Rainier, I'd make sure you have some more experienced people on your team that have glacier experience more than just a weekend crevasse rescue course. If being from out of the area and/or finding experienced team members that means you need to go the guided route, then so be it. With some other glacier experience, I would think that you could probably find a group without too much trouble.     

For some reference, I've been on Rainier like 10x now on 4 different routes. I had to turn around for weather and altitude issues on a few of those. While most of them were fairly straight forward climbs, this past year I went up the Emmons in early July. I did the same route like the last week in July several years before and it was pretty straightforward, maybe only one or two crevasses that you really had to deal with. This past year, I was genuinely surprised by how poor conditions were, particularly that "early" in the year when it’s usually peak and prime conditions. That descent was sort of a harrowing experience and one of the first times I kind of felt like I was battling the mountain just to get off it. A good portion of the upper mountain had poor/no visibility due to a persistent cloud on top. There were multiple crevasses that we had jump across without any end run options (like a running jump). the snow conditions were the softest I've ever experienced (it wasn't even that hot of a day) that caused us a lot of issues with hidden crevasses, most of which were in the middle of a trenched boot pack we travelled on the way up that I had no idea where there. We were repeatedly punching through them in the heat of the day on the way down and had to start employing belays across sections while crab crawling to distribute the weight over the snow bridge). Then there was a serac that we crossed under that scared the shit out of me-it was sort of precarious on the way up, but on the way down it was leaning a lot more than it was a few hours earlier. There was nobody else up there to rely on. Not trying to scare anybody off, but I think its important to understand what can happen and make sure you are prepared for such. I also personally know somebody that was killed on Rainier. Yeah the DC is more travelled and better maintained than the Emmons so less of a risk, but the point is it’s within the realm of possibilities to have a similar experience and the right approach to climbing the mountain is being under the assumption that you will have know how to keep yourself safe.   You very well may have to make decisions for yourself and team, so just make sure you have enough experience to do so. It's also more rewarding that way.

I'd hire a guide if you don't have glacier and crevasse experience, plus a competent team. I climbed rainier with a guide back in the day when I was still green and I learned some invaluable stuff on that trip that set a good base for me to build off of. You may have a few very inexperienced guys on your guided climb, but alot of those guides (atleast with IMG) are extremely good climbers with a wealth of mountain knowledge. Ask questions, watch what the guides do, and get your money out of the trip. If you don't want to go just to get to the top, take one of AAI's courses on Baker. You will learn enough in that trip to safely climb rainier next time.

One thing to keep in mind: if guided, you only get one summit day weather window. If the weather's bad on the day that you booked, you're shit out of luck. If you go guided, absolutely make sure that you book mid June or later -- the earliest dates usually don't summit.

If unguided, do you have the schedule flexibility to go when the weather's good? Including: trying your best to click fast and get multiple permits, and having multiple refundable flights booked or a relatively long time (week or so) in Seattle that encompasses multiple weather windows?

If you have flexibility, then your summit chances may actually be higher if unguided. PNW weather is fickle and the forecast can absolutely make or break your summit bid. The more possible summit days you have, the better.

Rainier (emmons) was my first glacier and first volcano. I felt totally ready after practicing crevasse rescue with my team. I think you're in a good mindset to get yourself ready for an unguided climb.

The challenge for me honestly was having partners in the right place at the right time to get the climb done. It was hard for me in Colorado where lots of people want to climb Rainier but everyone has to book flights etc. Started out with 5 but 3 dropped out when we had to go with the plan B dates due to weather. It might be even harder for you in MI where the population of people with mountaineering skills and goals is lower. There is ice climbing in MI, so maybe ask around in that community? A guide would also solve the partners problem for you.

Please take a glacier and crevasse class. If you do it through a guiding org or with a local community group, you'll meet other like-minded people and can forge climbing relationships that might yield a good group for Rainier, down the line.

Guides are trying to earn a living, so yes, they'll do stuff like take inexperienced climbers up and teach them to wear their backpacks. You won't necessarily be babied by one, but there's no guarantees your group members will be on your level - and your group will move at the rate of the slowest climber. It's likely you'll feel frustrated.

I think you'd get much more out of learning some skills in a formal setting this season, practicing on lower-consequences peaks (research the Easton route on Baker, for example) and attempting Rainier another year once you've established fundamentals and found some solid partners.

You could look into a mountaineering school that involves a Rainier summit.

Alpine Ascents International has 3 courses with a Rainier Summit. The 8-day Rainier is the Emmons route, the 9-day Rainier Baker is the Muir and the 10-day Rainier Baker is the Kautz route.

You'll get the training you're looking for, and you'll end up with mountaineering buds who have a solid skill base for future trips.

I went through the same decision making process over the last couple years, and ended up taking a crevasse rescue course from timberline mountain guides and then doing some glacier travel in Europe before I ended up doing Rainier.

You will have to still train a lot with your crevasse rescue skills and have good partners, but if you are willing and able to do this then I don't really see that having a guide is necessary.

I'm sure it really depends on the year and conditions, but last year when I did it the DC route was basically a very long walking path. If I'm going to hire a guide, I'm hiring them to show me where to go and how to do the climb.

Figuring out how to follow the DC route when I did it (July) really didn't require anything more than a functioning brain and a pair of eyes. Long and grueling? Yes. Technically difficult? No.

first, thank you for reaching out to the group for honest feedback, that's really important and hopefully you take all the suggestions with the good intentions (largely, someone will be rude surely) they are given.

it is great the mountains you have climbed but as others have mentioned, Rainier is an entirely different proposition. i have done climbs where the weather window was clear and then in real time you watch it deteriorate from a bluebird day to zero visibility with 40+mph winds and you have to hunker down for an indeterminate amount of time.

i would strongly suggest a guide service. yes there are some potential drawbacks of who may, or may not! be on the team with you but weigh this against your life. people die or are severely injured all the time on Rainier, even on the "chill" DC route. there is virtually zero margin for error. i would suggest reaching out directly to a few of the guide services, let them know your experience level and what you are looking for and see what they say.

weigh the potential drawbacks of a guiding service against your life and limbs.

Do you know how to self rescue out of a crevasse? I

i mean you have three options:

1. climb with a guide
2. climb with someone who isn't a guide but has really solid experience
3. be the person with really solid experience.

your post would appear to rule out 2+3.

you are exactly the kind of person who should climb with a guide. and fwiw, if you don't want to feel babied, they won't baby you. guides are fucking stoked on clients who show up in shape, humble, and ready to go. they're only going to be a problem for you if you're not as ready as you think you are.

Rainier is not to be underestimated. Coming from out of state with no real glacial crevasse experience means that you put yourself in real danger if you do this unguided. Perhaps it’s expensive but either you have the money to come back alive or take a chance that you won’t.

If you can set up a crevasse rescue under stress go for it. How do you know if you can???? Well, you can’t until you do it. So, like, only you can decide.

Using a guide is better than soloing if you're not too experienced. You can always do the emmons route to make it more challenging.

Hire a guide for a more advanced route.

If you do the ID or DC route you probably won't get a "did it all by myself" vibe anyway.

Even though they instruct the least common denominator in the guide group. You will still learn some things if you ask for extra information.

If you feel it's too easy when they have camps ready for you than don't do a guide.

Or, one thing I found was that they were a bit slower than I expected. But they set the pace to maximize the success of the team, and make sure people still had energy to get back to the trailhead. So that meant on the slow side.

But otherwise, you need crevasse rescue training and avalanche safety training in order to do it safely. A lot of people die getting in over their head.

And it's one thing to take the course, but be honest with yourself, are you confident that you can handle a crevasse fall on your group? Are you confident you can assess avalanche risk?

Keep in mind these are literally life and death decisions. So don't take it lightly.

As a local guide who doesn’t work on rainier (but has friends who do) I can relate to some frustration with the way the concession system works on the mountain. The services do a great job at getting folks of varying abilities up and down safely but are heavily disincentivized by the NPS from offering custom and low ratio itineraries for people who come in with more experience or want a more specific type of climb or to move around their dates. It overall feels a little less customizable and nimble than a guided trip can be in other venues but they are real pros and do a great job up there.

I would say go without save thousands of dollars. If you go the dc route it’s basically a highway to the top with the amount of traffic there is on it.

Review crevasse rescue before hand and don’t push it if you feel uncomfortable find two people who are similar in experience as you and go for it.

I’ve done it unguided and thought Shasta in early season was ten times more physically strenuous.

Get involved with some mountain climb and go for it when in good condition with a friend. Or two. Or even 3. Main route is like a highway. Just follow the lights. Make sure weather is good and route condition is excellent. I did it like 15 years ago, with broken hand with some friends. It was fun. Nowdays if I was in the area I would solo it no problem, just needs to be in good condition and weather needs to be good.

I’m going to assume you’re doing the DC route. I went unguided with a group of inexperienced friends. We all have a rock climbing background so we all felt comfortable with exposure and the gear. I don’t think a guide is necessary just take necessary precautions and make sure you’re in good shape. The DC route isn’t particularly dangerous and there’s a well worn path the entire way up to summit. Success on Rainier is all about fitness and timing imho.

I've done Rainier without a guide the past two years and will do it again this summer. I've never done any glacier or mountain training and never gone up a mountain with a guide. I don't bring half the recommended gear. The mountain is tall and dangerous. But if you take your time and be smart about it, it is totally doable and not very difficult.