What can I do about a creepy/dangerous tenant?

Discussion

The house across the street from my parents was recently bought by a renter, who’s been renting the place to straight up drug addicts / mentally ill folk. we didn’t really have any issue with this until recently, when the current tenant came over and told my dad “i was going to fuck your daughter but i didn’t”. mind you, i have two brothers, but one looks feminine so i’m assuming it was about them. went to the police but they’re fucking useless, so basically wanted to see if anyone has any advice on what to do about this? i have a gut feeling this isn’t going to be the last OR worst incident.

edit: after calling the owner of the property, the man making the threats was moved to a different house. it IS confirmed to be a halfway house now, so i hope whoever gets him now doesn’t have to deal with that shit.

in Michiganby Thrillkilled

165

88%

2mo

2mo

TheHumbleFarmer

152

2mo

Find the owners info and call to report the behavior

OP

49

2mo

yeah i’ve been looking for their number so we’ll see how that turns out.

61

2mo

Check the tax records for the place. You'll find a number there.

OP

19

2mo

will do, thank you

35

Marquette

2mo

Don't know if you got any helpful websites but here's another that I've used in the past.

https://bsaonline.com/Home/WelcomePage

12

2mo

It’s crazy what you can find on that site! My wife commented that they had information about our new windows/doors from last summer.

12

Kalamazoo

2mo

If there was a permit pulled, it will be on there. This is actually the result of public records laws and a good thing. You can go down to the county office and see basically any record you wish.

5

Marquette

2mo

People in general do not consider how much information is out there and your data privacy or privacy alone is not inherantly protected in the constitution or any Supreme Court rulings asside from limited medical, financial and criminal and investigative activities.

The 3rd amendment would be assumed to be protected as the quartering of soldiers in one's home could be interpreted today as government servailance as well as unreasonable search and seizure. However this only would extend to the government and not private companies and would not prevent then from retaining or distributing data or information on specific targets to digitally manipulate them. And then, that does not stop foreign interests and their securities from meddling in our daily affairs.

The government is far behind the curve in legal representation for you and everyone in data privacy and information regardless of party affiliation. And this is a problem. We assume the people who storm the capitol directly consume the same media as everyone else, in a free media enviroment. Or that it couldn't be made to happen again. I'm sorry, to rant it's just people should be concerned.

19

2mo

Yep. Just need a name and an address. I was able to find all of the properties a former landlord owned, what he paid for them ($1 each, fucking nepo-slumlord), and what he paid in taxes each year for each property.

13

2mo

Google "whatever county you're in GIS" and then look up the address.

You'll find a lot of information on properties that way too if you're home buying.

OP

8

2mo

i’ll look into this, thanks man

2

Walker

2mo

Or just go to the website for the county. Usually, property lookup is pretty high up in the navigation and easy to find.

2

2mo

yeah that google search usually takes you to the county page...

capthazelwoodsflask

2

2mo

Very useful and also a fun tool to use

T00kie_Clothespin

1

2mo

You should be able to go through the rental licensing agency too. May be code compliance, may be a different entity

Healthy_Win3461

0

2mo

If you can find their address, send a letter both regular and certified mail stating that you are putting them on notice of the behavior of their tenants and then list it out with dates if possible. End it with something like: “now that you are formally placed on notice, you may be held legally liable for any further acts of misconduct” Any landlord with half a brain will be kicking these people out ASAP. Plus by doing this, you have notice to present if it does go to court.

disgruntled-capybara

19

Age: 9 Days

2mo

Not a fix for the creepy behavior, but it may improve the situation a bit. My parents have a very sketchy rental property next to them. The people are weird, creepy, and generally not fun to live next to (my parents have lots of stories). It goes beyond that, though. They also do things like leave trash, furniture, and broken down cars out front. They let their grass get overgrown. At one point, the tenants got caught burning things like paint, carpet, and chemicals in the front yard. The house is in terrible shape. It's an eyesore in an otherwise typical neighborhood and brings my parent's property value down.

After 15+ years of suffering through a stream of characters, my parents contacted their township government. Turns out, the owner is a notorious slumlord who owns properties throughout the township that he doesn't take care of. They said anytime the exterior condition gets too bad, to report it to them. Since, the township's code enforcement has made multiple visits to tell the owner to remove junk from the front yard or fix this or that. The characters are still there, but at the very least, the house is a little less of an eyesore and the visits have tamped down some of the annoying behavior.

OP

7

2mo

funnily enough, this is exactly what the renters living RIGHT NEXT to the lunatic are like, and we did the same thing to some success. mind you, they aren’t crazy and haven’t been weird, just kinda white trash with loud cars they’re working on all day, but reporting them for being an eyesore enough lead to probably hundreds of dollars worth of fines and they finally started to AT LEAST mow their lawn and take their trash in.

DrugSeekingBehaviour

1

2mo

If they're working on cars all day they might be running a business out of their home- most places have zoning laws regarding the types of home occupations that can be operated in residential areas.

No-Weather-5157

-1

2mo

Yes I did this back in the day, some guy that worked for the State. Big dick till I started to me an enormous dick of myself then loser family kicked out.

Practical-Lemon-7244

67

2mo

Get a security system and cameras set up. They will help deter potential intruders. If there is an altercation of any kind, you will have evidence of aggression. Which can then be used to obtain restraining orders or press charges.

OP

23

2mo

yup, we got some security cameras installed along each side of the house, so we’re good on that.

Practical-Lemon-7244

7

2mo

Good, hopefully that'll keep them away from your parents.

2

2mo

Consider getting a dog. Pit or a German shepherd would help

2

Ann Arbor

2mo

Plus many heavy drug users hate being on camera 24/7

21

2mo

If he came over into your yard you can possibly have him trespassed. It is possible to have someone evicted for harassment in MI but thats up to the landlord.

Other than that… if the landlord doesn’t care, the cops can’t help. If the cops can’t help your best bet is the courts bc it’s a civil matter. Basically, get pepper spray and have the cops on speed dial until he escalates to something worse or get a lawyer. If he tries to talk to you or your dad simply say “do not speak to me”, this will help if you ended up going to court for any type of restraining order.

Get cameras too.

OP

12

2mo

cameras are already covered. he did indeed come into our yard but i feel like that’s going to be hard to spin as trespassing. definitely going to contact the property owner today and try to make their life hell about this until they take some action. thank you.

16

2mo

"He trespassed into my yard and made threats of sexual violence against my children."

This is already a crime. Follow up with the police and ask when they're going to do something, if they have the authority to do something or not, and if they think this will be easier to deal with now or after the news cycle breaks that a child was raped and the MPS/sheriff did nothing to intervene despite ample awareness of a credible threat.

These people are supposed to be protecting you goddammit.

4

2mo

At this point he could just get a formal warning telling him if he goes back on your property he would be given a formal trespass. I’m not sure exactly how much warning you need to give someone before serving someone with one, but the cops can likely tell you.

I’d also say if the cops don’t seem to want to deal with the neighbor, consider calling the next level of cops up. Our town cops refused to deal with our trouble neighbor, she was eventually arrested but it was by the county cops 🙃.

Best of luck!

OP

5

2mo

good idea on escalating it to the next level of cop. our town cops are notoriously lazy and more worried about giving the local high schoolers parking tickets than dealing with actual problems in the community.

36

Up North

2mo

Put up cameras. Talk to your elected local officials, talk to the sheriff or police leadership, check with code/ordinance enforcement and see if the landlord is operating legally. Be a pain in the ass and don't back down. Bear spray is a super effective deterrent.

OP

18

2mo

bear spray is a great suggestion actually. i’ll definitely look into the others. luckily we already got cameras, so now it’s just a matter of being a pain in the ass. thanks dude.

8

Up North

2mo

Crazy is going to crazy, you can't prevent crazy from doing crazy. You can document, you can get local officials on your side, talk to the other neighbors and get them to stand together. If every neighbor on the block is aware of this threat and is watching each others' backs, you'll be in a much better place.

You can protect yourself, you can be firm and clear with this person in any language you choose. Next time tell the you're not going to be intimidated, you're not afraid of them, and you'll 100% retaliate to any threat. Then follow through on that promise.

OP

4

2mo

very true. we’ve been documenting everything so far, and apparently something happened again literal minutes ago so i think we might need to escalate this already. the neighbor stuff is all really good advice. i’m going to bring this all up to them ASAP.

2

Up North

2mo

Don't wait for things to get worse, multiple incidents is already a problem. Conversations with neighbors today, in-person conversation with local LEOs and phoners with elected officials on Monday.

OP

2

2mo

apparently they’ve been talking with neighbors all morning so now onto the other stuff. sadly am at my apartment so very hard for me assist with anything besides calling around.

ScandiacusPrime

6

2mo

Bear spray comes in large canisters that can be hard to keep on your person if you're not actually out hiking and already carrying gear. It needs to be with you (or with your parents) to be useful in an attack. Instead, pick up some pepper spray designed for human attackers. Sabre is an excellent brand of self-defense pepper spray that will fit on a keychain, and you can get it for $10 or $12 a canister at Walmart or on Amazon.

5

Age: > 10 Years

2mo

Be a subtle pain in the ass an overt one is more likely to set off the crazy.

OP

3

2mo

yup, we’ve been very careful not to be overtly aggressive / hostile. people are fucking lunatics and we recognize how bad confrontation can go.

3

2mo

Definitely do as the poster above said, especially checking if they're operating legally. I had a neighbor start a halfway house. Day and night, there were stony-faced men just sitting around smoking, watching. Lots of people driving up for a quick minute and leaving. I've lived next to crack house as a teen and was babysat in one as a small child, and this was like dejavu. Got to the point where my daughter and her friend next door were afraid to go outside. A bunch of us in the neighborhood contacted city council and the city zoning department. It was deemed illegal and put an end to that.

OP

3

2mo

that’s exactly what has been happening with the house across the street, down to the cars showing up for a quick minute and the people just smoking and watching. insane to go from having a nice old woman across the street to fully grown men who do nothing but act sketchy.

7

2mo

I feel for you. I've been in my home for 25 years and have watched my neighborhood change. It used to be so quiet when all the old people were still here. Now we've got booming music all hours of the night, racing vehicles, loud arguing in the streets, and fireworks being set off randomly throughout the year. Like, I did not move from Detroit to the suburbs for this lol.

Ineedavodka2019

1

2mo

Can you call the police and tell them you suspect that they are selling drugs?

1

2mo

I suggest starting a fresh notebook and documenting incidents daily. Car with license plate x pulled up at 1.02pm and left at 1.05pm. Car with plate x pulled up with 3 children jumping around not in carseats. Violent fistfight on the lawn at midnight.

I'd do a fresh page a day. Write it objectively as "evidence".

Ask your other upset neighbors to do the same.

2

2mo

Bear spray is illegal to use on humans. Carry a firearm (and be prepared to use it if necessary), utilize the cameras and dogs. Bear spray could result in charges or a lawsuit. Protect yourselves, but in legal ways. You don't want these trash people turning anything around on you. Have a plan. Know how/what you will do in a worst-case scenario. I am sorry your family is going through this.

4

2mo

Bear spray is regulated as a pesticide, it is as illegal to use on a human as using hornet spray, and it produces a widespread blast that will blow back on you and burn eyes for a full block downwind.

I would only use bear spray to disperse more than 4 people and wishing I had a firearm.

Pepper spray is a tight stream that's very aimable within ten ft. Take some practice shots with it, don't leave it in a hot car, if they expire rotate it out.

1

2mo

All this. Don't give up till they're gone.

13

2mo

Document everything for the aftermath.

I say aftermath because there's nothing you can do until it's already too late. This is a situation that the police won't do anything until after it's already happened. They literally can't do that much, because it's your perception that the people are drug addicts and dangerous and not actual facts... Yet. It's a real crappy situation especially if the owner of the home isn't a corporation.

coffeeandcoffeeand

6

2mo

Is there a lease in place? What does it say about behaviors? What about lease renewal options? Can they refuse to renew?

OP

7

2mo

i’m sorry, i should clarify my parents aren’t the ones who own the property. we just live across the street, so obviously have absolutely no details on the contents of the lease or anything like that.

coffeeandcoffeeand

2

2mo

Nope, I read that too fast to catch the situation correctly. My fault.

You should put up cameras right away. If you know who owns the house, you can try talking to them about it. Not much else you can do if the police won't help, except move away. People have rights to housing, so long as the landlord doesn't evict them.

OP

3

2mo

very fucked up, but you’re right. sad that one lunatic is probably going to force everyone around him to have to change their lives rather than just getting rid of the lunatic.

5

2mo

Get a blink/ring doorbell or cameras and keep the activity and interactions.

OP

4

2mo

yup, already got it.

Adept_Investigator29

5

2mo

I'd keep calling the cops every time they exhibit illegal behavior. They may be useless, but having a paper trail might help your case.

9

2mo

Get a dog if your parents can manage one. Cameras are great too but when people hear a dog bark, even a small one, they are deterred by the sound.

OP

8

2mo

we do have three dogs, two being extremely large, so i think that will definitely help.

1

2mo

Good!!

4

2mo

Get a gun, get some self defense training, call the owner of the place and tell them what happened, if you have an HOA report it to the HOA, call the police if that happens for harassment

DrugSeekingBehaviour

2

2mo

"went to the police but they’re fucking useless"

Could you be more specific?

OP

6

2mo

they took the report but nothing has been done for a few days. mind you this is a small town and the town cops usually have nothing to do.

5

2mo

You call them for every incident. Every day. They’ll get sick of it and do something out of annoyance and you’ll have a nice bit of documented reporting

OP

3

2mo

will do

1

2mo

No they won’t. We had a drug house down the street (small town) and he was well known to the police. He even stole my daughter’s bike and when we called the police they’re like, “go ask for it back”. Um hello, isn’t that your job? He was breaking into cars and dealing drugs out the front door. The only thing that made it stop is that he died of an overdose.

Ineedavodka2019

2

2mo

Call the county sheriff.

DrugSeekingBehaviour

3

2mo

It sounds like your family is established in the neighborhood- have you talked to other 'normal' residents to find out whether the guy has interacted with them? (or to simply give them a 'heads up!' that there's a crazy fuck wandering the street?)

OP

2

2mo

they told me this morning they’ve been talking to the neighbors that actually live in the neighborhood, so i’m hoping we can get a kind of collective eye on this dude.

__masterbaiter__

2

2mo

What do you expect them to do? Far as I can tell from your description no laws were broken. Best they can do is talk to him.

OP

5

2mo

threatening to sexually assault a child on camera is a pretty big deal to most normal people, so i would expect something more than radio silence.

__masterbaiter__

2

2mo

That's different. You didn't say your brother/sister was a minor.

OP

4

2mo

yes, they’re a minor. they were walking home from highschool when he said it.

1

2mo

Especially considering there’s no “daughter”, there would be zero chance a prosecutor would write charges based on that statement alone.

Best you can do is document things, and actually provide proof of “drug use” such as videos or pictures to the landlord or police. Words alone would not be enough.

OP

4

2mo

i mean my youngest sibling is trans i’m pretty sure so they look like a daughter and are also one of the only teenagers who walk the block, but i get what you’re saying. never seen him openly doing drugs, only really weird cars pulling up for a few minutes at a time in the middle of the night.

Single_Expression499

2

2mo

I’d have kicked his ass then called the cops and said he attacked me. Who are they gonna believe me or the drug addict?

OP

13

2mo

i wish that was an option, but he’s very obviously mentally ill and i could imagine that escalating into a stabbing/shooting if this dude is sufficiently crazy

1

2mo

i could imagine that escalating into a stabbing/shooting if this dude is sufficiently crazy

If you DO believe them to be crazy, arming yourself with a gun is most likely you safest option (outside of leaving). Unless you really feel you could handle a sudden violent outbust of an attack, you're not gonna defend yourself well with a melee weapon against the crazy and violent, and a gun would truely be the best option. If you have that option where you live, I would take it. And DO NOT under ANY circumstances brandish it or even let your crazy violent neighbor know. The only time they should find out that you have a gun is when they are shot by it after attacking you. All you're doing is inviting more conflict by letting them know you are armed.

Future_Cat_Lady_626

1

2mo

I'm not excusing that comment or this person's behavior, but drug addicts and mentally ill people need places to live too

4

2mo

True, but if anybody becomes a proven threat to the neighbors, especially children, nobody is required to just allow them to continue just because they're mentally ill.

Future_Cat_Lady_626

3

2mo

Definitely not. If they're causing active problems that is a very different situation. However, merely renting to a mentally ill person is not necessarily a problem

2

Ann Arbor

2mo

I'm all in on the collective we helping the mentally ill, but the average person shouldn't be expected to shoulder the burden themselves. The house needs at least a social worker with frequent checksif everyone else needs to just accept it .

Future_Cat_Lady_626

3

2mo

My point is that there is an equivocation between someone being mentally ill and someone having overt behavioral problems that disturb their neighbors. You can be mentally ill without being a problem neighbor, but that is not being acknowledged in this thread

Obviously overt behavioral problems like this are... a problem. However, painting all mentally ill people as the same thing is very damaging for literally a quarter of the population who will experience a mental illness

OP

4

2mo

i never said anything to the contrary. i didn’t give a fuck about who lived their until this incident. probably not the best to put them smack dab in the middle of a suburban neighborhood.

2

2mo

People said the same thing about a perv that lived on my street that was way overly neighborly to kids only. Gut told me and other neighbors something is off, he then started trying to lure kids in his yard/house to see his pet bird. 1 lady said well he pays my kid to do yard work, a couple months later things went bad for her kid. Guy was hauled out in cuffs, his girlfriend put the house up for sale real fast. Im not blaming the girlfriend none of us think she knew, house was hers he was just living there with her, she traveled for work constantly rarely there. Im not a nosy neighbor but when things are off and ya have to live by it, you have to do for you.

Go with gut OP.

OP

3

2mo

jesus christ, im very sorry to hear that. definitely going with my gut on this, hoping my parents are going to take this as seriously as i am.

DrugSeekingBehaviour

1

2mo

I don't think any residential neighborhood should have to deal with shit like that, regardless of where it's located.

OP

1

2mo

yeah i definitely agree

Future_Cat_Lady_626

-7

2mo

I don't think you understand how common mental illness is

DrugSeekingBehaviour

4

2mo

the current tenant came over and told my dad “i was going to fuck your daughter but i didn’t”.

Exactly how should this particular situation be handled?

And how comfortable would you be as the 'object of desire', with this person monitoring your movements?

Future_Cat_Lady_626

2

2mo

I'm not excusing that comment or this person's behavior

OP

4

2mo

yeah i’m gonna be real honest with you i don’t particularly care about having this conversation with you right now, really weird place to try and have it.

Future_Cat_Lady_626

-6

2mo

You'll probably feel differently when it happens to you or somebody you know

OP

5

2mo

ironically, i was completely in your line of thinking UNTIL THIS happened to somebody i know. again, go argue with someone who cares.

Future_Cat_Lady_626

-2

2mo

I'm not arguing with you, but you seem upset so we can just drop this and carry on

DrugSeekingBehaviour

-2

2mo

I'm not arguing with you, but you seem upset so we can just drop this and carry on

Also ironically, with that remark wannabe-a-cat-lady sounds like someone with a borderline personality.

OP

2

2mo

sounds like it. again, don’t have an issue with the mentally ill having housing, but this is fucking ridiculous.

DrugSeekingBehaviour

1

2mo

Your OP described a very specific incident- there was no reason to infer that you had an issue with mentally ill people in general. catlady took it as an opportunity to mount a moral high horse.

I mistakenly inferred that your brother was an adult- knowing they're a minor makes the behavior even more egregious. Did the police talk to the guy (or run his name- it's not unlikely he has a record of criminal sexual conduct or is possibly on probation)?

1

2mo

I had a similar problem with a guy across the street. I'd never so much as talked to him but he'd knock on the door asking for rides or to mow my lawn. One day I caught him on the ring in my front yard and went out there and he said he just wanted to mow my lawn. Mind you it was already cut and I had told him no twice in the last two days. He would also walk up and down the block in cold weather wearing a wife beater and open carrying a pistol. Eventually he just disappeared so I assume he went to jail or a mental facility.

OP

2

2mo

insane that you mention the ‘walking while open carrying’, we actually had a dude doing the same exact thing who we think was living in that same house at the time.

tired_need_beer

1

2mo

If you have an HOA, report to them. Depending on the HOA rules this behavior is usually not tolerated.

OP

2

2mo

no HOA. starting to realize why they’re a thing lately lmao

1

2mo

Maybe file a non domestic PPO with your court for some of the behaviors you have been describing.

1

Age: > 10 Years

2mo

Beans

1

2mo

Read

The Gift of Fear

It has a stalker protocol that is effective and not intuitive. It is a book that has saved lives.

1

2mo

Pretty sure we live in the same city as I saw a similar post on a community fb page.

Since you have video evidence, press whatever charges you can and be diligent with followup.

Last year, my next-door neighbor threatened to kill my adult son. Police report filed. Prosecutor filed breach of peace suit. Neighbor lost it during the Zoom arraignment - swearing, yelling, breaking things - and was not found in contempt. The case went on for over 5 months bc the judge let it drag on. In the end, the prosecutor and police did absolutely nothing to try to prove the breach of peace. Therefore, dumbass neighbor got away with it.

Lesson is, followup and push the police and prosecutor to do their jobs.

I wish you and your family the best. You need to feel safe in your own home.

SuspiciousPillow

1

2mo

In addition to the other suggestions: sue. My parents had a similar issue with one of their neighbors. The landlord didn't care as long as he was getting his rent money. My parents and a couple of other neighbors brought this up and suddenly, now that it could affect his money, he cared.,

1

2mo

Leave them be?

Moderator removed comment

2mo

Michigan-ModTeam

1

2mo

Removed. See rule #2 in the r/Michigan subreddit rules.

1

2mo

Is your parents street ZONED for this? Check with city.

And I’m no lawyer but Google says: ”Verbal assault* is a form of aggression where someone uses words or language to intentionally harm, belittle, or intimidate another person. It involves using offensive, disrespectful, or derogatory language with intention of causing emotional distress or instilling fear”*

DrugSeekingBehaviour

1

2mo

https://www.remarms.com/shotguns/tactical/model-870-tactical

OP

3

2mo

we’ve already got multiple firearms, that’s not an issue.

1

2mo

Oh good, then just know you're probably going to have to use them if the crazy person keeps escalating their behavior so be ready for it. It's not the best outcome but it's probably what hte outcome is gonna be if they keep being aggressive like that and law enforcement does nothing. On that note, call and report EVERYTHING they do so you record of their behavior over time.

1

2mo

Lots of people saying pepper spray, MI has some pretty strict laws as to concentration and it’s pretty weak. A high on with malicious intent won’t be deterred by pepper spray.

I’d recommend getting a pistol, train with it and a CPL.

Sounds like you have cameras so next time tell them they are not to return or you’ll trespass them. Then if they do, call the police. If the police won’t do anything call the prosecutor’s office.

I’d also make sure the landlord knows and sue him for any possible issues that they have under quiet enjoyment. As landlord he can be named in a suit. Make sure he knows what is going on. With the 2 new landmark verdicts in MI, if anything happens, a prosecutor may be able to go after the landlord for criminal acts of the tenants if he knew or should have known there was criminal activity on the property.

0

2mo

Nobody wants to deal with a barking dog.

-11

2mo

Username checks out.

OP

0

2mo

how?

-2

2mo

You know in the future from the crazy guy 🤷‍♂️

OP

2

2mo

you’re so weird

-4

2mo

Lmfaoooo

3 missing replies