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I'll be honest with you everyone. I did not like Advent Children.
DISCUSSIONThat's totally OK, Advent Children is not good.
It’s not very good. I hope they don’t tie PT 3 into it.
yeah it isn’t that good. it’s fun, little overly fan servicey, not much real plot, just not great. i still like it tho lol
I feel the same, I wanted to go in truly admiring the film but it just wasn't for me.
.: Things I wasn't Fond of:
Moody Cloud & dressed in semi goth garments
Barret's attire , just didn't work for me
Didn't like the concept of degradation with Mako effected folks just felt tacted on for me personally
"Dilly Dally Shelly Shally"
Sephiroth's soul splitting , I'd rather a new character as the foe
.: Things that worked for me:
The main party wearing a pink ribbon in honor of Aerith
Final battle with Sephiroth and the epic, grand scope of how it was filmed
"One Winged Angel" song version in this film
Cloud seeing Aerith and having a sorta proper good bye
with her so he can move on with his life
As a standalone is ok-ish.i looks good and the fights are great. But as a sequel mehhhh. I think it ruined the tifa/ cloud relationship. I get he is depressed but common. At least the end seemed hopeful. The presentation of the couple was poorly handled just because they did not want to commit to the only official couple. I hope they change it. They have the one chance to make the ending epic and final. The dead should stay dead and they should not left anything open. Like FF 16 still crying.
Yes they need to commit to it and I think part 3 is the last chance
Advent Children was the first thing I ever saw from the FF franchise and it made me a life long fan. It was literally one of my favorite movies as a teenager as I had never seen something like that.
Yeah and why not. I think Zack came back for us to reunite with aerith. And cloud kissed today official so common.just stick to it
Exactly that's the only canon couple
It was when things really started to go wrong. The compilation has been one extended desecration of Final Fantasy 7's legacy... from Crisis Core to Remake and Rebirth. Disgusting what they've done to this beautiful game.
Yes, it was cringe and unnecessary.
Imma be honest, the first half was hardly enjoyable, second half was decent, best part was obviously the final fight with Sephiroth. Other than a few good bits here and there, don’t really find the movie all that appealing. If it was made into a game, and had a few things changed, might be better.
Edit: also, there is also a huge disconnect between the game and the movie, due to the fact that most of the main party in the game is absent for most of the movie, and the fact that everyone talks in cryptic early 2000s ways. Worst part for most of the movie was Cloud. I understand he has survivors guilt, that is very serious, but the big problem is his massive inability to talk about it, which he should have no problem doing after the events of the OG, just making things more difficult than needed.
Yeah I really didn’t like it either but I love ff7 so much that I still ended up with two copies of it somehow😭 It was okay to play in the background while doing homework, but I probably wouldn’t recommend it to other people
Yeah, shit is awful. No clue why people like it, legitimately one of the most boring movies I ever ever seen. I prefer it to Spirits Within, but that’s like saying I prefer dropping a hammer on my toe to cutting off my toe. The movie completely missed the point of the game and canonized edgy cringe Cloud, and I’m incredibly glad they mostly dropped that shit in Remake. Leave it far in the past, edgy Cloud is simply incorrect.
In fact, the most cogent theories of what’s happening in the remake saga is that they’re aiming to retcon advantage children.
Do you mean like make Advent Children better?
Clearly you have no clue what survivors guilt is. Also watch more movies
- Look, it’s a movie. The movie didn’t grip me. Don’t come at me with something like a survivor’s guilt argument, I understand what it is and I find that the movie was boring despite that. Just because a movie has a dark theme doesn’t mean it earned it, Advent Children kept basically none of the goofy vibes of the original and it didn’t really feel like the OG as a result, at least to me. If edgy Cloud is your thing then go ahead, but VII wasn’t a game about people moping around on bikes.
- Square Enix has famously boring movies, calling one of their movies uneventful or boring isn’t an out of the blue criticism. Shit, have you even seen the Kingdom Hearts movie? At least stuff happens in Advent Children, I’ll give it that.
Yeah 100% the way Cloud was portrayed was bad. I actually really like what they have been doing with the remake series but after hearing it's gonna be canon to advent children really disappointed me
I mean, don’t worry about it. They’re not DOING advent children as far as I know, so you can just forget it exists. I don’t think a single advent children thing has come up so far, the most obscure reference was a boss from dirge of Cerberus and that’s about it.
The 3 whispers at the end of 7R are the 3 from AC.
Okay, just looked it up and, they emulate their fighting styles correct? But they’re not literally those 3 characters, just emulating how they fight. Is that correct? I haven’t played Remake in a fair bit, and I likely would not have picked up on that regardless.
When advent children was re-released in theatres earlier this year, there was an intro video that played before the movie started with interviews from the developers for remake and they confirmed the 3 whispers are infact Kadaj, Yazoo and Loz.
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3d
You tried dirge of Cerberus? Because… woof. Sounds like you’d fucking hate that one 😂
Lol no I haven't, and from the sounds of it, I probably won't
Advent Children sadly made me realise that Tetsuya Nomura did not know what made Final Fantasy VII great - the story. And it felt like a forced attempt to turn the whole thing into an action movie that competed with the Matrix, and ended up feeling like a way too long music video.
100% it's sad, it's so good and then Advent Children took the OG so many steps back
Im smoking hopium that they redo AC with the new voice talent and with a better script, with mostly just the overall plot the same...
And, unashamedly, that it shows Cloud/Tifa a little more obvious together... I know lots of people who didn't realize they were without the novel.
Why every time... how many times do the creators have to say it CloudxAerith and CloudxTifa is not canon.
''Even a kiss at the end''
For the kiss you already have it with the gold saucer and even one who almost did it at Gongaga and yet it doesn't seem enough.
Alongside you have those who appreciate the character of Zack who were quite disappointed with his role in Rebirth and then you have the people who like the character of Aerith who must, despite the bait of the easily conceivable end of the remake, still be pissed on by the creators.
People would cry fan service if Aerith or Zack came back to life and yet it's the same people who have been waiting and asking to see a kiss between CloudxTifa for almost 30 years, I think you can see the hypocrisy in that and no it is not against you that I say this.
As for the other fans, apparently they can go fuck themselves forever.
Apparently fanservice is only good when it affects only one part of the fandom, whereas the creators could have celebrated life as a theme instead it is still the theme of mourning seen and reviewed.
My friend, I like Aerith quite a lot. Zack is cool too... I'd happily see them get more time in the sun, but as someone who had played Crisis Core and has also read the novels, its clear that outside of the "player choice" time of the main game, that Aerith and Zack, Cloud and Tifa were pushed...
If the game existed in a vacuum, I think it'd be fine being noncommittal and vague. It'd be no different than arguing which romance interest Commander Shepard went with...
But FF7 has books, games, and a movie outside of JUST the game, making Cloud an established character himself and not just a vehicle for the player to experience the story through.
The vagueness just feels forced, and there are literally folks from both side of the aisle that would rather "lose" (using that term loosely) than have whatever weirdness we got in Advent Children.
Cloud and Tifa adopt a kid together and live with each other before Advent Children... are you honestly telling me that a kiss at the end of Advent Children to just be a little less vague about the endgame would be a bad thing? It wouldn't...
And my desire for Aerith to stay dead is entirely rooted in the fact its part of what made FF7 impactful and great... not because of shipping reasons or dislike of the character. Aerith is AMAZING and I hope she gets a MUCH bigger and more clear role in part 3 when she helps the planet defend itself. I want Aerith to ultimately save Gaia against Meteor by helping the planet defend itself in time.
But you are so clearly hurt by Gongaga and the disparity in the intimacy or the GS dates that you seem a bit jaded on the matter...
We SEE Zack and Aerith, smiling, walking TOGETHER off into the light via lifestream visions... They got their happy ending... Why doesn't Cloud and Tifa deserve the same happiness? Then all 4 characters get to have someone.
I just want a happy ending that clears the air and shows ALL INVOLVED with things they want... Not the "maybe happy ending?" Last 3 minutes AC gave us.
There is no maybe, it clearly had a happy ending.
Fair, but its at the absolute last minute and left too many questions imho.
''But you are so clearly hurt by Gongaga''
No but by the hypocrisy of this fandom yes.
And you have literally confirmed what I thought in fact you don't care about the words of the creators, what interests you is pushing your side of the expedition and imposing your vision of things, nothing comes to contradict what the creators have said by the past and yet you give me the old arguments about movie and the novel but obviously a ''canonical'' couple which is false.
Because firstly I read the novel, saw the film and secondly why are the ''fans'' still waging their childish war of expedition still if it was so obvious during all this time.
As for Denzel, it proves nothing. Do you really think that Cloud would have abandoned a child in need, especially at that moment Cloud felt that the fact that he found Denzel was not a coincidence, and thought that Aerith was behind that she had brought Denzel to his motorbike so that he could find him.
Anyone in their right mind would have done something responsible to save these kids from need and you think it a confirmation for your expedition, yes I have seen the film, you on the other hand need to watch it again.
Obviously you don't appreciate the truth and when someone comes to highlight this hypocrisy you get angry and the only way you can get around it is to tell the other person.
''you get hurt by this''
Firstly and sorry it is false and secondly by showing good will by going in your direction it does not contradict what I said
So all your reasoning doesn't hold water.
Alright. Sorry the devs didn't give you what you wanted.
See ya in part 3. Cheers.
Yeah that was another thing, not trying to bring ship wars into this, and this isn't a dig at what couple you believe is canon that is any fans preference, but me being a Cloti it seemed like how they saved eachother in OG didn't matter and Advent Children put their relationship on some back burner and acted like they didn't just save the world together 2 years prior in OG
Not turning this into a shipping discourse either but with them adopting a kid together, living together, being a "family", I'd say that counts as "canon together"
Them fighting all movie didn't help though. Even a kiss at the end instead of Tifa bedroom eyes only would have helped.
Edit: All ships are fine for when the game is taking place. There is a reason you get to decide who you go after and things like the affection/affinity system exist... I am just saying that post game content with the novel/movie are pretty set in stone.
Yeah exactly! But they chose to basically act like they don't even know eachother at times
EDIT: Yeah I wasn't making it a shipping discourse, you can ship anyone, the Tifa and Cloud dynamic was not good though, even if you put them as just friends, their dialogue was pretty bad.
Have you seen it with subs/in japanese? The dub is terrible.
I mostly agree with OP. The one thing I get was Cloud becoming depressed, because it made sense for me. Cloud thought that killing Sephiroth would bring him peace.
Only to realize that Aerith is still dead, and he still failed her. Her death, in his eyes, is his fault, and that can never change. Probably the reason he was hesitant to tie the knot with Tifa. He was too ashamed and afraid of losing her too one day.
Thank you for agreeing.
So many people reassured Cloud to stop blaming himself, Reno says "I think Tifa wants you to get over it", Aerith says to stop blaming himself and then finally Tifa had to really catch him and say "is it a memory or us"
He went from becoming a hero in OG to going back from 100 to 0 again and a combination of teaming up with Shinra in the movie didn't make sense when they were the antagonist other than Sephiroth
Shame. rings bell
Dilly Dally Shilly Shally
Lol
The dialogue was a bit goofy, but I loved it. Especially in that era when video game based projects were absolute dogshit or non-existant it was waaaay better than anything else.
I got og ff7 when I was 8. Advent children was cool to watch but yea it's boring. I'm surprised ff movies are boring as fuck.
There's that ff ghost spirit movie I finally watched like 5 years ago and that shit was awesome. As a kid it looked dumb but yea I was a dumb kid. Spirits within? And roz Doyle's in it.
I just don't like the implication that it is canon to FF7 because I believe that story stands on its own. But now the devs are saying the remake series is gonna be canon to Advent Children and that to me is disappointing
I don't think this is some revelation, i think most people feel this way.
I don't like it either. It's always good to see Cloud, Tifa, Barret and the whole team together, but the story was pretty messy and uninteresting and I feel the main draw was the fanservice.
Yes I 100% agree, yeah it's always great to see them together but the story for Advent Children just wasn't there, and I have actually been enjoying the remake series and now that the devs said the remake series will be canon to Advent Children made me disappointed
We get it. Advent Children fucking sucks. To be honest, everything that expanded on FF7's story sucks, including Crisis Core and Dirge or Cerberus.
Preach on, preach on!
I adore Remake and Rebirth, they’re the only FF7 “spin-offs” I like. The CC and DC inclusions are so jarring, just from character designs alone, that those are the only obnoxious parts of the remake to me.
I despise Zack. If he was better written, i'd be ok, but i can't stand him being just a happy guy that is only positive and nothing else. Too one note, he has nothing going for him.
Gettin downvotes for saying facts about Zack. Ya'll weird.
My upvotes have been fluctuating so much I've been getting people downvoting and upvoting I'm at like a standstill for posting this I bet more than like 500+ have upvoted and then downvotes on my post, if it's your opinion though then who cares?
Let's hate together. We don't need 'em.
And yeah it just comes down to writing, that's why I didn't like advent children because it made Cloud go back to his survivor guilt depressed, it just needs to be written better so you can like the character, I'm okay with Zack but I understand that you can't always just be the happy character all the time just like Cloud can't always be depressed all the time
Thing is, after Cloud recovers returns from the lifestream with Tifs in FF7, he's back to being the real Cloud, a quirky fun guy who's kinda awkward, then all of the sudden he's this melodramatic, depressed diva in Advent Children. Why? They threw his whole character arc out of the window.
Thank you that's exactly what I have been explaining, it's like why just throw out his character arc for some movie, that's why I felt it made FF7 take like steps back instead of moving forward, that's all, and people liked the opinion and others didn't.
Dirge of Cerberus sucked, yes. But being able to shoot things as Vincent and customize different guns for him was an amazing
Finally someone with some sense. To me, OG FF7 gave me more than enough story and what I didn't know was fine because part of the fun of it was the mystery. All of the spin offs have just felt like the soul of the original was lost.
I know man, that movie just took the OG steps back
Yeah, very true. I remember when I finished the game for the first time feeling like I didn't really understand the complete story, but I still enjoyed it because the character moments were perfect.
The death of Aerith is still one of the emotional high points of storytelling in a videogame. Even if you didn't understand the lore about the Cetra, the Ancients, the lifestream, the moment when Sephiroth comes down and stabs her just hits so fucking hard.
So, even after 40 hours of gameplay, it still feels emotionally satisfying when Cloud hits Sephiroth with the omnislash at the end of the game.
Advent Children felt like a Dragonball Z movie with FF7 characters - cool fight sequences, cool music, but derivative of the "real" story in a vaguely thematic way. That being said, I still love the AC Version of One Winged Angel with the electric guitar solo.
Probably the best version of One Winged Angel imo. The guitar sections added to it just make it sound way more evil and dark.
I just thought the animation looked cool. I pretend like the story doesn’t exist. Like I do with dragon ball GT
That's funny, I just replied to another comment saying that Advent Children felt like a Dragonball Z movie with FF7 Characters. Good point.
Yeah I don't believe it's canon to the story, even if the devs say it is, I don't believe it's a good look for the devs to canon the remake series to Advent Children as FF7 stands alone
I like it because of its esthetic. Not only the fight choreographies, but generally speaking the film is stunning visually, the character design for Cloud & Tifa is perfect & the piano versions of FFVII music is really beautiful. But I dislike the story as much as I dislike the rest of the 2000's compilation of ffvii.
At first I was blinded, because I love the OG game and it's lore, but after rewatching it recently the script is weak like wet paper. It's the graphics and it's iconic characters that keep the movie afloat, but it isn't a great movie if you've never played the game.
yep! the story was ridiculous. but clouds fusion swords, his battle skills and the usual bg music was amazing!
Yeah the story just kind of took OG steps back
I didn't like how AC trivialized my efforts at the end of FF7 by bringing Sephiroth back. We SPECIFICALLY went into the lifestream to end him there because he wasn't really gone, and dissipated his soul.
I know, and Sephiroth is one of the best written villains ever, but the whole point of OG was to stop him and they did it 3 times, just to bring him back so I believe it was fan service and I love Sephiroth
I love advent children.
It’s pretty bad, but I think they addressed somethings without adding the context that the short stories did.
Cloud is suffering from PTSD he essentially didn’t become aware of who he was or his mental state till the end of the game. When he contracted geostigma it was the straw that broke his back. Which is why his relationship with Tifa and the kids went on the back burner. I think the movie slightly addressed this where he says something along the lines of “if I can’t take care of myself how can I take care of my family?” This is probably the only thing they did decent wise but suffered due to lack of added context.
Everything else about the movie is hot garbage.
It's a fan service film. Of course it's gonna be bad. It's just an excuse to see awesome fights, which is why I love it.
Of course you didn't. It's unnecessary garbage.
Yeah made me miss OG, and I am really liking the remake series but now that the devs say that the remake is gonna be canon to Advent Children really disappointed me because FF7 stands on its own
Oh it's an awful film, I absolutely love it but it's terrible.
Its one of those movies that was TOTALLY unneeded and didnt add pretty much anything, but I thought it was fun enough
Yeah it really wasn't needed for the story
The party and the turks were on chill terms in the OG game, you could literally skip the last fight by being chill
I don't skip parts, I play the whole story
as u/chillb4e pointed out, this was just to highlight that the Turks are chilled with the party in the OG game
I think they meant that you can choose not to fight the TURKS the last we meet them.
This is not a hot take at all. The movie is very bad.
Out of curiosity, did you watch the original or the Complete version?
The complete version just adds more Denzel scenes and more blood/dirt.
Reductive but not wrong. Honestly, having jumped into the Compilation with Advent Children classic, I really would’ve appreciated that scene in Complete with Cloud talking Marlene, because I thought throughout the entire film that she was Aerith’s younger sister rather than Barret’s daughter.
Nothing unpopular here, it's pretty bad and really representative of its strange era. I can see some people liking it for its "so bad it's good" quality or because they saw it before playing the original game. Advent Children was made 8 years after the original game came out and with technologies that were unthinkable back in 1997. It was a sequel but also a new beginning and a small retelling of the same story for an entirely new generation of players/viewers. No wonder everything seems to go back to its original state like the og never happened. The movie also introduced some new concepts that would be used in the remake series, which is a good or a bad thing depending on where you stand.
Yeah, I've never really understood people taking Advent Children so seriously. At the time it was just a very cool CGI tech demo with some nice fight choreography. It literally originated as a short by someone in one of Square's CGI houses before getting built out into something bigger. But I've never been able to take it very seriously narratively or as "canon" or whatnot.
I mean, love it or hate it, I can see arguments both ways and neither bothers me. It's just a bit pointless IMO to hold it to the standards of a more traditional film, its plot will never hold up to any kind of real scrutiny.
Yeah I can't see it as canon to me either, that's another reason I didn't like it
I mean if ya kind of pitch it as like, "Squenix threw a bunch of money at a sick fan service piece with the best cg tech of the era with some wicked fight scenes," I love it. I just love it in the same way I love the Sephiroth fight in Kingdom Hearts. It's ridiculous but fun and I'm all for that. It's just...separate. and that's totally allowed.
Or in comics terms, it's like I love that this Suicide Squad isekai anime exists but if they were trying to shoehorn it legitimately into DC comics canon I would think it was stupid.
(Though I can go on whole rants about how insane the Big Two's approach to "canon" in their main line comics is. I generally only do American superheroes in one-offs/shorts because of it.)
honestly only really like Fenrir and the Fusion Sword, god I'd kill to have a proper hd model of the Fusion Sword that isn't mine or NT's inferior model, come on FF Ever Crisis
I only like Cloud's outfit and sword(s) design. Fight scenes were good in a vacuum, but you're right, the story overall was a mess.
I always laugh at the door knocker on his shoulder. Like, Nomura's designs are always ridiculous but this one takes the cake for me.
Awful direction and fan service. Then again, they could only do so much in a 100-minute movie.
I remember seeing the preview when the first teaser trailer was released with sephiroth's theme. It was awesome hype.
The villains were some of the absolute worst in FF.
Yeah the movie was fantastic service and for me I can't see it as canon but the devs are saying the remake series is gonna align with advent children which is annoying
I mean I liked them since one’s a legendary Soldier
fight scenes were good in a vacuum
This sums it up
Yeah I liked the change of outfits and from the thread everyone loves the fight scenes, i appreciate that you know the story didn't progress just like most do
Yeah I didn’t enjoy it either. But then again it’s tough to fit in a good story and involve all the characters we know and love within a 2 hour film. My biggest problem with it and I watched it at the time, was too much action and not enough time with the main party. I remember the hype being all about knowing if Aerith was alive or dead
Yes, to me I felt like they changed every characters arc and they completely changed from OG even though it was 2 years.
They kinda tried too hard to put together a serious story but looking at recent final fantasy games they seem to have realised that the more light hearted stuff with twists works better. The end of the remake trilogy will be the true ending for me
100% agree, I like the remake series, it has added great new things while still having the OG material. I agree and I'm just saying Advent Children set it back, that's why it wasn't for me. The characters completely changed and Cloud found himself in the OG and then went back to being a person he felt wasn't worthy anymore. It was just taking steps back
I agree with most of your points, though I have watched it only once several years ago. I remember laughing out loud when Kadaj rounded up all those kids and started lecturing to them, it seemed so ridiculous.
I would add that Aerith's character is also gutted along with everyone else. We never see her mischievous, rebellious side or her sense of humor. Though it is difficult given she is a ghost and the voice acting is lackluster. I'm glad the Remakes have done a fantastic job correcting this, and showing us true Aerith in all her quirky goodness.
And Barret becoming an oil driller was a big wtf moment for me. Like, come on. I know he has experience with mining but you'd think he'd put it to a different use.
I would extend this criticism to the compilation material as a whole. It seemed like they were trying to chase mid-2000's post-Matrix sensibilities, so everything has this drab color palette and an over-serious tone. The colorful, yet darkly whimsical nature of OG FF7's world is never expressed. All the locations are gray and industrial. There's no space for levity.
The characters are shadows of their OG selves. The only character that seems intact is Yuffie. She seems incredibly fun and dynamic if Dirge of Cerberus, and you can tell they modelled Remake Yuffie on Dirge's version. Perhaps this is because she seemed like such a vestigial character in the OG.
Frankly, I would love it if the Remake series retconned the compilation material out of the canon and established a new continuity. It may sound like blasphemy to a lot of people, but as someone who loves FF7, I truly believe this. The Remake series has gone above and beyond to correct all the issues with the compilation material. The world is colorful. The characters are amazing. They seem more "themselves" than they did in the OG. There's actual humor, and the characters talk to each other like human beings.
It wouldn't make any sense for Remake part 3 to "lead into" Advent Children. Picture it, at the end of part 3 the party somehow defeats a version of Sephiroth who can control Fate and exist across multiple worlds, then two years later the remnants show up and start kidnapping children? It would make the Remakes seem incredibly unimportant and anticlimactic.
The only meaningful ending to the Remakes is the final end of Sephiroth and Jenova, salvation for humanity and possibly , the Gi. In short, a new continuity.
I love how the remakes are going and adding new things to the story, Advent Children to me was that they changed everything OG did and created a bunch of more problems with in 2 years to have the characters completely change, and Cloud going back to his depressed self even though 2 years ago he saved the world with his party and realized his true self.
It's possible to make a depressed character interesting, but the way Cloud comes off in AC makes him look immature. The voice acting and translation is part of the problem.
Again, I don't mind a depressed character. I take issue with a dull, non-communicative character. But dull and non-communicative describes most of the characters in that movie...
Yeah the overblown the regrets part which they still could have had but it made him slow down as a character.
It pretty much undone cloud from his progress after the his life stream incident where Tifa helping to rebuild his mind. Disc 3 cloud is often I refer to as prime cloud since he was at his strongest mentally.
speaking.
I often thought cloud will be someone who'll be trying to regain his humanity in the aftermath and just stay away from the shinra related stuff.
So brave of you to share this opinion on a nearly 20 year old film that many hardcore FF7 fans also don't like. Did you really think this was groundbreaking in 2024?
Well you sarcastic nature isn't going to really affect how I feel about Advent Children. It wasn't for me, if you liked it that's good for you. If you are trying to bait me into getting angry it isn't working. Calling me brave is trying to get me to fall for your sarcasm. My opinion is that I don't like it and if you do that's great, have a good night
Why do people nowadays think that their opinion or their feelings about anything is like something super important?
Mine is not important, but from the comments it started a discourse of Advent Children which caused the debate on whether you liked it or not
The same reason you felt compelled to comment on it I suppose
Social Media has been rewarding individuals for this shit. It makes people think other people also give a damn.
...sorry i gotta do caps. "GUYS, DID YOU KNOW ADVENT CHILDREN WAS THE SECOND FF MOVIE AFTER THE SPIRITS WITHIN?"
Squaresoft (at that time) was so confident The Spirits Within is the mainstream FF that they invest to much but it turns to the worse box office bomb at that time, forcing Hinorobu Sakaguchi to resign and allegedly the main cause to merge as SquareEnix. It was considered a low blow and we were seriously thinking its the end of high graphics, high quality FF games and no more movies.
Well well well, when Advent Children was out and its a direct FF7 continuation we lap it all up. We were so desperately wanted a decent FF movie and it was action packed we applauded it as return-to-form FF (whatever that means). Hence it was top rated just because.
Now as a rewatch? i just rated as.. OK. not great not terrible.
So the whole story of The Spirits Within box office bomb forcing Sakaguchi out of Square is actually not accurate. I was surprised to learn this a few years ago, but it's one of those old gaming stories that just got repeated over and over again on forums and gaming news websites that people just accepted as true. It turns out that Sakaguchi already had one foot out the door before The Spirits Within was even released. The real reason he stepped down was due FFX being delayed from the 2000 fiscal year to the following fiscal year, 2001. Causing a huge loss.
The timeline looks like this:
June 2000: Yoichi Wada joins Squaresoft as CFO (Sakaguchi hated this guy)
Summer 2000: Square and Enix merger talks begin
January 2001: FFX is delayed from May to July, causing Square to fall in the Red for the first time in company history. (https://web.archive.org/web/20140319043934/https://www.animenation.net/blog/2001/01/22/ffx-delay-squares-first-deficit/)
February 2001: Sakaguchi resigns from his role as Company Vice president and assigns development of FFXII to Yasumi Matsuno and Hiroyuki Ito (First FF game he won't be involved with in any capacity.) The current CEO Hisashi Suzuki takes a 50% paycut.
May 2001: Sakaguchi files a domain name "www.Mistwalker.co.jp games" (Indicating that he knows his future is bleak at Square due to the company's poor financial performance with FFX being delayed.)
July 2001: The Spirits Within releases. It grosses 30 million in Japan and about 85 million in total. But the full budget for the film, was about 137 million. But this causes a loss for the next Financial year, 2001.
November 2001: CEO Hisashi Suzuki steps down and COO Yoichi Wada becomes CEO.
The timing just kind of lined up nicely to blame it all on the movie tanking, so that's what most of the western gaming media assumed was the reason. And we all posted it everywhere and it became the "truth". But the real reason was FFX's delay causing a sales shortfall of about $100 million for the 2000 fiscal year. But FFX wasn't really delayed for us here in the West, since FF games always came out in English after the Japanese release anyway. So that part of the story wasn't really noteworthy to us, but it's actually THE reason Sakaguchi left.
Looks ok, ok action, terrible character development and story that ruins OG’s perfect ending. It’s almost infuriating how much it casually ruins some of the main plot points of the game.
I never considered it canon and I certainly hope FF7 ReUnion or whatever is called doesn’t try to integrate that movie’s story elements in any way.
Yeah I never considered it canon either but I guess the remake series is gonna lead to Advent Children being canon which annoys me because as you said it ruined the games perfect ending
Too late.
I know and I really like remake series cause it does still go by OG and has added new things which I like, but if they are gonna make Advent Children canon to the remake, that disappoints me
It's very important to know when you watched it. If you watched it nowadays, then yeah, it's understandable.
But back then it was super cool to see the ff7 characters animated in a movie. It was very new and exciting.
I absolutely loved Advent Children back then for that reason, even if the story was lacking.
Fun fact: Advent Children was originally conceptualized as a game but they ultimately weren't able to do it, at least not during that time.
that's pretty interesting. didn't know that.
Ff7 is / was my favorite Jrpg, and I did not feel this way at launch. It felt sloppy and I hated that sephiroth magically returned. Just lazy story telling.
Yeah this was what I was looking forward to. The story is shit but the fightscenes are awesome and it was awesome seing the characters an what they where capable of.
It was that movie that showed me how bad ass tifa actually was lol
The story is meh, but the animation still holds up incredibly well. CG animation tends to age quickly, but AC still looks as fresh to me now as it did nearly 20 years ago.
Sad for you, then.
Well good that you enjoyed it
It has my favourite version of OWA
The movie's pretty meh. It was pretty for its time, the action sequences are cool, but the story's pretty mediocre and they don't spend enough time exploring the characters or explaining things. It honestly feels like they were created the FMV's for a game, and then took out all the points that the player was supposed to control the character, talk to NPCs, explore the world, etc.
That said, I am going to respond to a few of your criticisms here:
Cloud going back to his depressed state after saving the world from Sephiroth set the game back
Putting aside the Geostigma BS where Sephiroth is still poisoning Cloud's mind, PTSD and survivor's guilt are both real things that one doesn't just "get over" by doing one big thing. Grief and depression also aren't simple switches, they come in waves. You have good days, you have bad days, and if it's not managed, you tend to spiral into more and more bad days.
The Turks and the OG party are on good terms acting like the Turks didn't drop a plate and killed 50,000 innocent Midgar citizens.
This is a criticism about FFVII, not Advent Children. After Midgar, they became the quirky miniboss squad that your characters never showed real animosity toward and were mostly used for comic relief. Your last meeting is in the tunnels below Midgar, where they part amicably.
Cloud and Tifa's relationship goes on some awkward back burner was bad acting like he didn't save her from the Nibleheim incident and she didn't save his life in the Lifestream which I don't know why they did that.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here, because I don't see why the events that they went through 5-10 years ago should be relevant to how their relationship is today. Relationships can just fall apart, especially when someone's struggling with their mental health and specifically isolating themselves. Tifa makes an effort, but Cloud isn't willing to let her be part of it.
Well with the PTSD, Tifa and Reno even said that Cloud needs to move on and not step back, go forward, he is going back
Actually from what I have seen post from the proper criticism most fans have, most didn't even understand why they Turks are there for comic relief after what they have done, so they shouldn't even be on the same side
When Tifa repairs Clouds mind, he becomes the Cloud from Nibleheim the Real Cloud and not a possessed Sephiroth, just to go back to his old possessed ways even though he isn't under influence from Sephiroth two years later and no possession, like you said just survivors guilt. It deviates from him being the Real Cloud
He feels guilt for Zack and aeriths deaths. Also for not being able to cure Denzel.
I hope you dont say that to someone in real life when they share their PTSD experiences. Telling someone to move on and go forward never helps with anyone, especially someone with mental illness. Cloud is depressed.
Something to reconsider is the circumstances of Aerith’s death. She was brutally killed by Clouds nemesis right in front of him where he was not able to do anything. Is he supposed to be more open about his feelings and mental struggles to Tifa? Yes. Is Tifa supposed to be more active in asking how she can support Cloud in a way that he needs? Yes. Both of them are way over their heads.
Its not just guilt over not being able to save her, but like he said in the movie, he let her die. He needs motivation to keep living, “permission” to move on with his life, he thought it might come from her. After getting his vengeance from Sephiroth, its easy to see that hes lost his way. All the time we spent with him in OG, his mind was full of Sephiroth, now that Clouds succeeded defeating him, all there is left is destructions. Its not that easy to just move on and go forward. To add to that, Clouds heart is very fragile to begin with.
By the end of the movie, keeping Gaia save for the children (Denzel & Marlene) to grow is his motivation to live, be the hero of Gaia, knowing his found family is with him. Fitting for title, no? To me, thats really well done arc for Cloud.
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Im glad, because it might be just a movie from a video game franchise, but we need to apply these kinds of things to real life as well. Many are suffering from mental illness, time and support are very important. To minimise the struggles and being told just move on and get over it can be very harmful.
Well with the PTSD, Tifa and Reno even said that Cloud needs to move on and not step back, go forward, he is going back
Yeah, I've been told this while struggling with suicidal ideation. Hint: telling people to just stop being depressed doesn't usually make them stop being depressed, it just makes them stop talking to you about it.
Actually from what I have seen post from the proper criticism most fans have, most didn't even understand why they Turks are there for comic relief after what they have done, so they shouldn't even be on the same side
It's because Final Fantasy VII isn't the most well-written game. That's why the murder of countless people is swept under the rug because lol, the Turks are funny.
When Tifa repairs Clouds mind, he becomes the Cloud from Nibleheim the Real Cloud and not a possessed Sephiroth, just to go back to his old possessed ways even though he isn't under influence from Sephiroth two years later and no possession, like you said just survivors guilt. It deviates from him being the Real Cloud
I mean, first of all, he canonically is under the influence of Sephiroth, that's what Geostigma is, it's poisoning his mind. But second, just because he recovered from a catatonic state doesn't mean he's dealt with his guilt, his grief, etc. Him being the "real Cloud" or possessed doesn't matter to this. He didn't have time to process his emotions.
Cloud vs Steph battle was friggen amazing, story was sub par. That end battle tho, just wooahhhh
Most people don't like Advent Children for the plot, they liked it because it looked cool and gave us Advent One Winged Angel.
I don't see how Barret becoming an oil tycoon is necessarily out of character though, he had no problem with coal. He was only anti-mako and anti-Shinra,
Because mako is a metaphor for using the life force of the earth for power and profit. He’s a revolutionary eco-terrorist.
You are right about the metaphor.
Barret isn’t a straight up eco-terrorist, though. Barret didn’t come to Avalanche because Shinra is using mako. He came to Avalanche because Shinra destroyed is village, killed his wife, and, he thinks, killed his best friend. Sure, he goes all in on the “saving the planet” once he’s mad at Shinra, but he’d be all in on anything that both allowed him to lash out at Shinra and gathered a community around him.
So, Barret moving into oil is one of the few things I really like about Advent Children and I think it’s very consistent with his character.
There are people who fought to get rid of leaded gasoline and CFCs etc. and still don't believe in global warming...
I don't know if other natural resources in FF7 are canonically as harmful as in real life, or whether it's known yet. Either way everyone is capable of cognitive dissonance, especially when changing their beliefs would obligate surrendering their wealth.
The story not so good…but when it came out the animation was top of the line. And come on cloud fighting seph in what was top animation, can’t help but smile.
Serious question, those who said you are fans of FF7 here, have you read the book "On the Way to a Smile" and watched the movie in context of it?
I felt that reading the book has given me more context and understanding to the theme of the movie and the character motives. I appreciate it for what it is today. Also reminder that this is an almost 20 year old movie you're talking about.
It’s a whole load of blah blah between great fight scenes and I love it for it.
Heck I’ll fast forward through it just to get to the fights.
I've been seeing a lot of people basically only liking it for the fight scenes
They’re the best parts - plus any scene Reno is in
Lol I admit, Reno is funny
it's just eye candy fan service. if you think about it like that it becomes a bit better imo.
If they could expand on the story instead of like changing everything they did from OG than maybe I would have liked it
There's very little to like about it. My friend was trying to squeeze every drop they could out of it and it was some of the purest copium I've ever heard. Haha
Yeah I couldn't get into it man, it sucked the life of OG from me
Cool fight scenes at least, plot was a whole load of meh also suprise sephiroth duel in the midgar ruins LETS GOOOO
You are hardly alone. I watched it as a teenager and loved the action (bahamut vs team, Cloud vs sephiroth). Everything else, I forgot (It was that unremarkable).
By today's standards, the movie might be slightly better than Disney trainwrecks, and that too will only be due to action scenes imo.
Yeah I mean from the way my upvotes have been fluctuating I can see it's such a mix because I have seen it go up and down so much, it just wasn't for me cause I felt it took a step from the OG and felt there was no further progression, like you said I agree, just a lot of action scenes which are fine but the main story didn't progress
I didn't even know Advent Children existed until last year.
I also think the franchise peaked with FF6.
I watched while live-"tweeting" my reaction to various paets of the movie to my good friend whos obsessed with anythingFF7 using telegram.
I loved every bit of that movie.
Was it perfect? No.
Did it have some dialog and editing issues? Yes.
But it was clearly made by a team that loved FF7. The movie was what I would consider to be a love letter to fans.
I consider the music of AC to be the "pixel remaster" of the OG OST. it's nearly flawless, and the AC version of OWA is the best piece of music in the entire final fantasy franchise.
And this is coming from someone who thinks the OG OWA is not even top 5 of end boss themes.
I say watch it for what it is, an action movie featuring some characters we love doing some really cool shit for 90 minutes before everyone comes together at the end for one of the best "everyone comes together" montages in cinema.
No, I’m with you. As a big FF7 fan, I watched it and thought, wow that was impressive (And it really was for the time). But it suffers the same issues as most of the extra FF7 stuff. It’s all just retreading the same plot. Geostigma? The three clones? Oh, it’s all just a way to get Sephiroth to come back AGAIN. I would love to see them explore new ideas in the ff7 world, but they just don’t seem capable. Can anyone name a new character NOT in the base game which they love?
I suppose Denzel's decent, even if the movie didn't use him very well? But that's about it. The books are generally better than the rest of the EU imo. (I still need to read The Kids Are Alright though.)
The Gi stuff in rebirth I feel like could have some story for after the original ending.
It insists upon itself.
I’ve seen more people hating it than liking it to be honest.
I personally liked AC and I rewatch it from time to time. I’ll try to discuss all your points so I apologize for the long reply🙏🏻
Cloud wasn’t depressed in the game. He blocked out Zack’s death and that combined with Jenova cells took a toll on his memories and personality. Cloud was never able to process Aerith’s and Zack’s deaths so the moment he wasn’t high on adrenaline and was genuinely happy, survivor guilt hit. He felt guilty for being happy while his best friends died. He’s also most likely dealing with PTSD, along with a deadly illness so depression is pretty normal given the circumstance.
Rufus wasn’t killed, his status was unknown at the end of the game but Ultimania explored his escape.
The Turks cooperate with the party in Wutai so is it strange that they they do the same 2 years after the events? Especially considering the common enemy? I mean the Turks were also attacked to it makes sense to join forces.
Geostigma is caused by the “tainted“ Lifestream (infected by Jenova) so anyone who came in contact with it developed the illness. The Lifestream emerged when meteor was descending so it all started at the end of OG.
The Lifestream -not yet healed- is the reason why Sephiroth came back. Hem after all, became part of the Lifestream and as long as Jenivaova cells exist he’ll always find a way to come back. At least that’s what I understood.
I found Cloud and Tifa’s relationship “realistic”, they are a family but he isolates himself the moment he realizes he’s gonna die due to the disease, which again I find it pretty realistic. He found his way back to her. I liked that they showed us this side of their relationship and that it’s still strong. I also liked the family they created.
I can understand the Barret one but I think anything was better than draining the planet and killing it, so they had to find a way to replace the lifestream and they did so using the oil they had just discovered. Was there even another alternative? I’m not really sure and I don’t even know how oil work in the FF7 world.
Yes, the devs already said AC is canon to the trilogy and it makes sense as the trilogy will only cover OG7 storyline. AC and DOC are still the canon sequel to the storyline, just like CC is the canon prequel. I don’t see them remaking it in new graphics, if they wanted to do that they wouldn’t have released AC in theaters before the release of Rebirth.q
It’s not for everyone, and you are allowed to dislike it. For me it makes sense that it released, it connects the dots and it shows what happened after OG (I didn’t like the ending). The novel already explained what happened in the Lifestream so it makes sense that they showed what happened to the living. FF7 was the first game to reach such a success worldwide so they most likely wanted to explore more (they says many times they had to cut much from the game, but they still expanded the lore in different ways).
I appreciate the generous response because if you like it you do and if you don't then you don't we all have our opinions.
Tifa did repair Clouds memories in OG, so Jenova cells are no longer bothering him though. I get the survivors guilt part that makes sense
The Turks dropping a plate and killing innocent Midgar civilians that the party knew and were around just to team up 2 years later, I apologize but that doesn't make sense to me
I do really appreciate the response and I'm glad you enjoyed the film. Yes FF7 is one of the most successful and one of my favorite games made. It sucks that they had to cut parts out because of how good the game is
Have you read The Kids are Alright or On the Way to a Smile?
You're not alone. I watched it a few times, I tried to like it, but I just couldn't. The movie is a hot mess.
Yeah I couldn't get into it, I mean my upvotes have been fluctuating so it's been such a mix, I actually didn't know at first it was like this
Yeah. Tk be fair, everything post OG is pretty much just dilly dally, silly shally...or whatever fucking nonsense she starts spweing.
Lol
I grew up on FFVII and have seen the OG AC which is (checks notes, dear lord) almost two decades old now. It was ok, I enjoyed it but I did feel it detracted from the base story rather than added to it. There were some really good soundtrack tracks though (Tenrai/Divinity) that, as a music composition student, I thoroughly enjoyed.
Yeah I feel the same way, I didn't think it really progressed the main story and it kind of kept it stagnant, if it didn't I would have probably have liked it
Advent children sucks as does pretty much everything they added to the remake / rebirth trilogy
😂😂😂 old heads man.
Ff vii is fine and the new games are making the game more popular than ever for a reason
Hey man, the pinned post on this sub says we should not be rude and hurl insults towards eachother, we all have our own opinions and you have yours which is fine but don't call someone an old head just because they don't agree with your opinion, and when you call someone an old head that is possibly saying you are new to Final Fantasy and hasn't played the OG.
I like the remake series, I think they are doing a good job and adding new things. But please be respectful
I didn’t really like it either. And I saw it when it first came out. I really wanted to like it though, because it looked so good and I just wanted to see all the characters again. But it’s a dud for me and probably won’t be watching it anytime soon.
Here’s an opinion that will probably get me downvotes but….
FF 15 Kingsglaive is actually pretty good and a whole lot better than AC.
I really like the movies.
I like it before, but rewatching it now ... Animation is still good but the voice acting, cringe.
I found it okay. It is fun to watch but I didn't take it seriously (aka, it's not in my headcanon despite it originally supposedly being canon).
With Remake and Rebirth, I'm now classing those as semi-sequels in my books. Those are canon for me.
That's the one thing that I was trying to say though about it being supposedly being canon. Like Rufus dies in OG, and they bring him back. The Turk are on good terms though they dropped a plate and murdered Midgar citizens and blamed them for it. So I don't get how you can from that and then 2 years later they act like that didn't happen and it's supposed to be canon.
The Remakes are good, the devs have added some things that weren't in OG, I think they did it because it was possibly something they wanted to do in 1997 but couldn't
I also hated the english voice cast, I can't speak to the Japanese vo, it's the stereotypical over the top JVO as with most anime. But Tifa in particular is awful in my opinion
If they remake advent children, they really need to gut scenes and some of the storyline. The action based stuff was fine, but the way they portrayed cloud, his dynamic with tifa, the gloominess of it all… just terrible.
I will also say the voice acting and lines were a joke compared to the ff7 remake series. Ff7 remake series compared to advent children is night and day.
They're not going to change things in the film to appease people who absolutely want to see a better "relationship" because there is no couple at all. (creator's own words)
I don't want to seem tiring with this, that's not my goal.
Otherwise in my opinion I don't like the movie the only good thing is the music, the action, some scenes, I like the dubbing in Japanese and English but the rest of the film is less qualitative and brings nothing.
I didn't really care for any character ship in the movie tbh. I just thought it changed most of what happened in the game. Like the hero moved forward and saved the planet and then goes back 2 years later and he changes again and moves back again instead of forward and characters like the Turks being on good terms doesn't make sense to me
Yeah that's another thing I don't like is Tifa and Clouds dynamic in it, she helped him get back to his senses just for it to go to him being emo or angst Cloud again two years later
Not liking AC has been a common opinion for about 20 years now lol. Only the fight scenes are interesting and now with time, it lost its high production and one of a kind format privileges so, is that much less enjoyable to many now.
The way they treated the characters was the worst part of the movie, namely the "emo" Cloud that ushered in a new era. It gave general FF7 haters fuel as they acted as if the original game portrayed the character the same way and would deny it when you proved them wrong.
I actually didn't know how much of like a mix if people liked it or not, I love OG and I felt the whole movie deviates from it.
Yeah I agree with that as well because they totally changed Cloud again, that's what makes me not like it too because I was also talking with others and they said it's like they put him back from 100 to 0 again, and I didn't like that felt like they pushed him back instead of forward. And because of that it did give FF7 haters fuel to use against the actual game
I also despised the holy mother Teresa thing they did with Aerith. Seriously, writing and characterization did so much harm to the brand (which Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia upheld). I'm happy that remake has been changing that.
I should have added that music and character design were highlights too. Monster design left a lot to be desired though I feel it was due to limitations of the tech, namely the color palette not deviating much.
Is watching the movie after remake a bad idea? I never played og ff7 before
If you're going to watch it, play Rebirth first. Otherwise, a lot gets spoiled.
I mean, it does spoil a lot of things that happen at the end of the OG FF7, so watching it after remake would have you scratching TF out of your head if you didn't play the OG.
It was made in the middle of the 00s after all
Guess i won't watch it then
How brave..