I'm honestly not familiar with Arena and Daggerfall, but Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim all focus on defeating some sort of world-ending apocalyptic threat.
I'm kind of curious what would an Elder Scrolls main quest would like if it took a different direction. New Vegas and Cyberpunk came to mind to me as stories that didn't solve some "fate of humanity" problem and instead focused more on local politics or personal survival.
A politics-focused main quest would work really well for TES VI, assuming it's set in Hammerfell as what most people believe, given the current climate with the Dominion, Hammerfell and the Empire
3 factions war against the rebuilding of Orsinium. Redguards, Bretons and Orcs all have different agendas, different militaries and leads to different endings but all revolves around a massive conflict spanning 3 provinces and a military campaign.
Isn't that basically the Orsinium DLC for ESO?
Orsinium DLC for ESO as far as I recall is actually a rebuilt Orsinium dealing with Malacath Worship and Trinimac Worship a sabotage from one side or the other.
I literally played it a few weeks ago. It's much more about getting the tribes to follow one leader and unify against the reachmen threat, who are basically Bretons. The only thing missing is Redguards trying to interfere.
That’s still not the same thing. The reachmen are first of all, not Bretons, they share common ancestry but both the Bretons and the reachmen will tell you that they are not the same. Further demonstrated by the fact that as a Breton in ESO, you are often fighting reachmen like Angof.
In TES history though, the entire province of Highrock will unify under a single banner and join forces with Hammerfell who will do the same and march their armies to wherever the orcs are and lay siege to whatever they are building. What you’re talking about is a minor clan of reachmen having a conflict with the orcs who built Orsinium, it’s not a full scale war between 3 races.
Oh, ok, I think I get what you're saying. Your initial comment made me think the whole focus would be on the rebuilding of Orsinium, which is a significant part of the DLC in ESO. I think your idea could make a neat strategy game if TES wants to expand into that territory, but idk how much I like it for a main series TES game. It just seems like the player's role will largely be decided by where they start, and I guess this could allow for replay value if the game let's you choose, but that doesn't strike me as very TES-esque.
TL;DR at bottom
The game wouldn’t let you choose where to start. In this situation I would have you start on a ship as a prisoner at sea. I’m assuming ship sailing will be a feature in TES6 so I’d start you off in a situation where we can teach that to you in the tutorial and I’d have something attack the ship, your captors die and you’re forced to try and steer the ship out. You can either be ship wrecked and rescued or have the ship barely make it and give the player a severely damaged starter ship and let them sail from there to where they want to go. The attackers or your captives would introduce you to the main plot.
It’s not a strategy game per se. It’s a story about conflict. The 3 banners war in ESO isn’t really a strategy game, it’s just introducing you to the many conflicts. Piracy is an issue during war times, the Thalmor are still a threat that needs watching. The empire still has Highrock in its grips, orcs are lashing out across the lands to try and cause distractions to force the militaries to pay attention to the wrong places while the orcs build. discovering the location of Orsinium itself would be a major part of the quest, building the armies and getting everyone to agree to join forces, dealing with the nuances of this being genocide for like the 6th time in history. Internal conflicts between the Bretons and Redguards who are allies but generally don’t get along. Internal conflicts between the Breton kingdoms or crown and forebear factions.
There’s a lot to work with story wise without introducing strategy game play. You wouldn’t start as a high ranking member in the military anyway so you’d just be following orders and getting assignments and doing what you were told. Maybe eventually you’ll be a high enough ranking member to make big choices that change the ending of the game. But war, conflict and inner conflict would be good enough for a great story in my opinion.
War also really opens up the landscape to hardship which creates many problems for people to solve that aren’t focusing on the war. The Witcher 3 did this really well, where your character has nothing to do with the war happening in the background but is actively finding more work for himself because of the conflict. Like I said, piracy runs rampant, crime ramps up, bandits get bold and try to expand territories, beasts and monsters have their nests and homes destroyed or their food source dwindles because of troop movements, forcing them out into the open. plenty of grief leads to people making emotional decisions that might leave scars on the landscape etc.
TL;DR I wouldn’t say it’s strategy, but a story about war and conflict. You don’t start where you choose but can choose where you go and who you join, just like choosing a side in Skyrim’s civil war.
That does sound interesting, but it just seems a little too close to Daggerfall for my liking. Shipwreck start, Iliac Bay location, political intrigue, lots of different factions, the player kind of caught in the middle of it all with their choices having a heavy influence on the outcome... it just seems way too familiar. I admit I'm already kind of peeved that the most probably location is Hammerfell. I would have much preferred Elsweyr. But if they're going to do Hammerfell I think they should at the very least put in an effort to make it more than just a thinly-veiled modern remake of Daggerfall. I understand that's not exactly what you're suggesting, but there's just too many similarities for my liking. Just my two cents.
Fair, I’ve only ever played Skyggerfall so I’m not terribly familiar with Daggerfall outside of the main plot.
Wait... Skygerfall? I've heard of Skywind but didn't know Skygerfall was a thing. Is it completed? Like fully playable and everything? Fuck man you can't just drop a bombshell like that on me out of nowhere! xD
no
Starfield had a very personal main quest with no rush, and no world ending conflict. People hated it. I think people like the epic in their epic fantasy more than they let on.
That said I'd love a mundane beginning that leads into stopping a region destroying problem. A more nuanced civil war that ends up leading into stopping a plot by the thalmor would be cool for example
People not liking Starfield's main quest has nothing to do with the stakes, it's the fault of Starfield's setting, characters and world building not being remotely interesting.
Raising the stakes and having some grand threat to fight, or great crisis to subvert, wouldn't have made people who didn't care about Starfield suddenly start caring.
This is how I felt about it. It simply wasn't interesting, and the "end" just being a new game+ gimmick with no resolution was deeply unsatisfying. The faction quests were much more interesting for the most part.
It doesn't have to be "save the universe" stakes. It just needs to be good.
It was both. I did very much enjoy some of the early stages and there were a few good side quests. But after a while it just felt sterile and repetitive.
And the main quest kind of ruined everything for me. Everything I had done just felt utterly pointless, because effectively it was.
I don't think that's why people hated it, though. It just didn't have great writing. The premise itself was great.
I have no idea why Emil is so high up on the chain, he's so bad.
I was surprised people hated it for this reason when these people have been complaining since Skyrim at least.
Yes - I actually stopped playing once I found out the main "secret".
It wasn't some kind of protest and I didn't deliberately stop playing nor intend to stop. My session simply ended that day, and afterwards I found I just had zero desire to load it up again. And I haven't since.
I had played hundreds of hours before, doing side quests and just exploring, and really enjoyed it.
But once the "secret" was revealed, there was sort of no mystery to it anymore. And the fact that the plot means made every play seem kind of pointless, I think.
Also so few companions. If you're going to do companions, at least do a wide variety. Let alone companions with romance as a feature. People have varied tastes.
Personally, I wasn't upset about the number of companions, but how completely uninteresting, cliche, and one-dimensional they were. They felt like they were written by a high-schooler.
Also there were a couple of potentially much more interesting ones, like Jessamine, but they weren't written fully.
When it comes to the companions, I’m fine with just having the 4 if the 4 are insanely fleshed out and well done. In their current state we have 4 companions, all from the same faction with the same morality with the same goals and mostly white. Their affinity systems all lead to a total of like 5-6 conversations where a favour is asked and then once completed you can try to romance and once completed the companion just talks to you differently and makes jokes when you wake up. This is the recipe I’m fine with if you did like 20 companions. This is the same level of detail we got in fallout 4 and I wanted more added to them but at least we got a bunch of different types of people in Fallout 4.
For 4 companions I want them to be fully quest aware of everything I do in the entire game including all the DLC. I want them coming with me through the unity and going through NG+ with me as my romantic partner all of which I want dialogue for. I want them to each have a different back ground and back story. I want to be able to talk to them about so many more things, I want flirting to happen organically, I want them to flirt with me as well and not push away sort of like Sarah does which gives me the ick. And I absolutely want to see the romance happen on screen. When I marry someone I absolutely want to see my character kiss that character in an animation, I want to be able to kiss that character that I married. I’m not asking for full on rated R sex scenes but treat me like I’m an adult and give me the options to do basic shit.
Right now as it stands I am told I need to care about them and I absolutely don’t. I gave more of a shit about Shadowheart in 15 minutes of game play than I have ever given about Sarah. I went through the unity married to her and didn’t even think about it. Sam died and I only felt bad for his daughter. Didn’t even care he was gone. The big reveal “Sam’s back!!!” I almost forgot he even existed to begin with at that point.
It wasn't well written however. The concept was cool as hell, not going to lie. But it was ass.
Personally they can do something political motivated, it's all the rage these days any ways. I just want an option to be another NPC in the world UNTIL a certain quest line threshold as been met. Before that, I don't want to be teased or occur in a prophetic dream or anything.
Just let me live.
Idk I don't think it was poorly written. It was easily written off until the quest high price to pay, and then I was very invested until the ending.
I dont think it’s the lack of a world ending conflict that people don’t like about Starfield. Most if not all fallout games don’t have any world ending plots for the characters to deal with.
TL;DR at the bottom.
I think most people don’t like it because it’s got too many fetch quests crammed in. It’s got poorly written characters and only a hand full of interesting moments but for the most part its just a generally boring main questline. And it’s not even the situations that are super boring a lot of the time it’s the implementation.
The idea of going in to a nightclub to make a deal with a thief to obtain an artifact and having to fight your way out, sounds inherently exciting. However the dialogue options presented to you that lead to the same outcome no matter what, the serious lack of animations and atmosphere and their inability to sell you on the fact that you should be intimidated or worried about anything going on just makes the quest fall flat.
Flying across our own solar system trying to track someone who’s in danger and prevent them from being killed so we can rescue them and retrieve our first artifact also sounds fun on paper but there’s no real threat. Add a timer to that quest and make things feel more urgent after you discover he’s in danger and actually put him in danger so if you don’t get there on time and figure out where he is, he dies.
No matter what you do someone dies part way through but they don’t do anything to make me feel anything for these characters. I was inherently more sad because it was Sam in mine and I watched his daughter stand over him and that made me feel horrible but not because I loved Sam, because I can relate to a teenager who’s lost a loved one. If it was Barrett or Sarah who died I would have felt nothing. “That sucks” would have been the most emotional response it would have gotten from me.
TL;DR The writing, the implementation and the inability to do any type of… environmental story telling (their inability to make the world around you convey the emotions they want or need you to be feeling), in game makes this all fall flat. Theres an example I’ve seen in a video that compares doing a deal with criminals in CP2077 to the nightclub deal in Starfield and CP2077 makes you feel uncomfortable, the animations, music and situation forces you to realize the danger you’re in. Has nothing to do with the low stakes or lack of world ending threats. It was just Bethesda’s inability to draw you in to this world and the stories that made it all feel dull and boring.
the Nerevarine isn’t preventing the end of the world.
Yes, they are? Once the Blight reached the mainland, it was over for Tamriel. The Ghostfence was starting to fail.
Sorry, I wasn’t thinking about the blight, it’s sort of a side effect of going against Dagoth Ur that you prevent that. The real plot of Morrowind is centred around getting to Dagoth Ur which from what I recall (it’s been a long time) Dagoth Ur was a Demi god that wanted to rest control of Morrowind from the tribunal and “rescue” them from imperial control. From what I recall, the point is to save Morrowind from his control, but it’s not a world ending event.
Dude is mad. Even if his points sorta make "sense" as in he just wants to gain control over Morrowind, it would be by turning everyone into corprus beasts, and no way that would stop at Morrowind's borders, as the Blight is contagious.
Yeah, I’m agreeing with you, you do save the world in Morrowind, i was just thinking about the plot not being sold as such. Even if you google the plot of Morrowind which is what I just did lol. It says pretty much what I said above ^ you fight a Demi god to prevent that Demi god from taking control over Morrowind to rest it from imperial control. But you are right, obviously that person was a mad god and wouldn’t have stopped there and the blight was a major issue.
But still, my point still stands that it doesn’t need to be a world ending event. The world already ended in most fallout games and you’re usually dealing with more localized plot. So the issue with Starfields plot isn’t that the world or universe isn’t in danger. We’re fine with lower stakes plot lines in Bethesda games.
He's making a god to wage war against the empire. He wishes to spread the blight and corpus to make everything his slave more or less
He literally made a second numidium, it was a world ending event.
I’m just gonna edit that part out, I’ve already discussed that and agreed, people are fully ignoring my actual point because of that lol.
Idk, I think that was the only thing worth arguing against, I agreed with everything else
I'm constantly amazed at how much richer (100% vanilla) Skyrim is, and how great it looks - given it's two console generations old - vs that nearly-empty-nightclub scene in Starfield. Is it really that processor(?) demanding to fill it with NPCs?
I also felt - similar to Fallout - that the settlements were unrealistically sterile and bleak. If you look at any human settlement, including "slum" type dwellings, humans rapidly decorate, cosify, make everything more attractive. They got this correct in Oblivion and Skyrim where the furnishings were great.
Starfield felt less lived in and permanent than a campsite.
Agreed, starfield feels about as lived in as a household with the plastic covers on all their furniture still lol.
the plastic covers on all their furniture still
That is the PERFECT way to describe it!
Starfield could've been great if it was more low stakes actually. Just focus on the ideological conflict between the two main factions, maybe building towards another war between them or be able to resolve it peacefully
Instead it goes off into some quasi-religious multiverse stuff for no reason, and I think thats when people start to lose interest
I disagree - I think most people want a Huge Epic Plot as the central goal in an RPG. There has to be a reason and purpose for all the questing and levelling and getting better gear.
The problem with Starfield was that there wasn't this, because of the NG+ thing, it all ended up feeling pointless. Just back to square one. Again and again and again in perpetuity.
Nah, the issue with the Starfield main story sterns from the fact the game setting is a near future version of our own universe (2330, any pre 2023 history reflects our own IRL history) in a NASA punk world made in co-operation with NASA. Yet for some reason they desperately tried to make a Skyrim in space version with special powers even unrealistic for over 300 years. If this is the main quest of a game actually set in their own separate universe without any links to IRL there is nothing wrong with it.
Because I actually like the slow pace.
Daggerfall dealt with three warring nations in the Iliac Bay (High Rock and Hammerfell) with you ultimately deciding the fate of the region, so it more or less falls into what you're looking for.
It's a bit of a convoluted political mess, however, and the game's real strength is less with its pre-written questlines and more with making your own story through its radiant quests (I don't care if the term wasn't coined until Skyrim, it applies here too pretty well - though DF's radiant quests are better).
Lol it was way more than three warring nations bro. There were a ton of different nobles all with totally different agendas that the player had to interact with.
lol Daggerfall, Sentinel, and Wayrest are the only kingdoms that remotely matter in the main plot, bro, and I was keeping it brief. Anyone who wants to deeply understand Daggerfall's main plot should play or read up on the game.
I agree with the second part but how dare you disrespect my boy Gortwog like this.
Gortwog whom you visit, what, twice? Thrice? Fair enough though, he and his orcs do have an ending.
He's that tall goblin, or whatever, right?
I wouldn't put CP2077 as "low stakes". You're told you're going to die in like in like a month, but then the game introduces you to 100 side quests.
You're only on a timer narratively, I know, but the underlying urgency of V's problem still takes me out sometimes.
Starfield I felt did the main quest sort of right for once, in terms of urgency. There's only a couple story beats where realistically your character would definitely keep following the story, but the overall premise is just a broad "discover the secrets of the universe". Those secrets aren't going anywhere, the universe isn't ending, nobody is going to die because you're delaying your journey, nobody is pushing you to HURRY GO MOVE THIS IS IMPORTANT. It felt like I was allowed to breathe, narratively speaking.
I hope the game somewhat flopping doesn't deter them from that kind of main quest again.
Maybe not apocalyptic but you could take inspiration from the Star Wars prequels and have it be a political conspiracy story. It’s still a big deal because you decide the fate of major factions like the Empire, Dominion, etc but no matter who wins life will still go on. Life could even be kind of boring for average people during this time with little to no risk of ‘monsters/demons/warriors’ coming in and destroying their village. Have things be more like slice of life Zelda style quests outside of the main quest. Just comfy ‘can you help me set up this ritual so my crops will survive winter’ style quests rather than ‘OH SHIT THE CITY IS BEING DESTROYED BY THE FUCKBEASTS OF THE 12th DIMENSION’.
Maybe managing a plague. Disease are usually very manageable in Tamriel, but when plagues crop up which defy alchemy and divine blessings, things can get out of hand fast.
Would be fairly straightforward: fetch ingredients, assist research, avert war, fight a large green dragon, etc.
Ooh, this could actually be really interesting, especially if the Sload are involved. They already unleashed a devastating plague on Tamriel once, imagine if they tried to do it again. I'd also like it simply on the basis of it not being just another game of fighting the Aldmeri Dominion, which is what a lot of people seem to be hoping for.
tbf we haven't actually fought the Thalmor in any meaningful capacity, aside from ESO which is a different beast
ESO is a totally different thalmor. The thalmor in ESO actually fight against racism. But what I was talking about was Skyrim. Like, yes, the dragons are the main antagonists, but we still infiltrate the Thalmor Embassy and kill any thalmor we come across, so we're getting a view of how the thalmor operate in a province they don't control. A game set in Hammerfell that involves fighting the thalmor would feel like a continuation of Skyrim as opposed to a standalone game. Besides, there are mods that let you fight the thalmor in a second great war for Skyrim. If the game is set Hammerfell, I hope it's after the thalmor have already been defeated and the main story has a new threat/plot.
well, diff'rent strokes I suppose :) personally, the Thalmor bits in Skyrim always seemed incidental, since the road encounters are basically optional, and there's really not much payoff otherwise aside from getting Ulfric to call Elenwen a bitch xD
I'd love to really fight em again in another game or DLC, but I think your idea is more likely, or it'll just be more background flavor again with the odd quest
Imagine a game that was all about managing a plague in the Imperial City, with part of the game being a "base builder" that's all about constructing a hospital. Except it ends with some kind of fight against a giant kaiju Peryite who's like "This hospital must go."
Corpus
What a grand and intoxicating pestilence. A severe outbreak of Ticklebritch would do the trick.
Well just as an example for Skyrim it could have just been old versus new, everything plays out the same minus specifically Alduin. So dragons, shouting, the works, but rather then being some shouting Jesus type you're just a decent of one of the pre-Mead Emperors/Empress.
And the main story would just be which side of the Civil War you take to decide whether or not ancient Nord customs takes rule over imperialization.
For the next game assuming it is a Hammerfell it could just be you as a member of the Penis Oculitis helping undermine the elves.
I feel like the Thieves Guild questlines aren't exactly about world-ending experiences, they're just heists.
Sure, in Oblivion, you steal an Elder Scroll, and in Skyrim you meet Nocturnal. But none of them are truly cataclysms, they're more just fun stuff to run by in your thieving.
Yea but they aren't main quests
maybe something with a more personal stake like New Vegas. I'd love a revenge tale or some such, which balloons into a larger conspiracy or plot or something. Or perhaps lean into the "freelance adventurer" thing like they lampshaded in Morrowind, and you get swept up into something bigger, like people have mentioned politics and the conflict with the Dominion. Maybe a conspiracy where you fight people like that Redguard Thalmor sympathizer in Skyrim, to prevent another invasion. Whatever it is, I hope they keep the trend of a near-anonymous cipher like in previous games, and don't go the Fallout route of making you a specific type of character
Who's the Redguard Thalmor sympathizer? I play Skyrim way too much and I don't think I've heard of them
I forget her name, you meet her in Whiterun and the Alik'r that have come to arrest her accuse her of such. There's no concrete proof, but it's overall likely they're telling the truth
Oh, Saadia. I remembered her, just not the fact that there was Thalmor stuff involved.
One of Daggerfalls main objectives is to find a missing piece of mail lmao
Rebuilding a region after a devastating war in a slow paced story line or some political story that doesn't revolve around world ending bullshit.
In Oblivion you already know in the tutorial that you are special ingame. In Skyrim you already know during the second quest after leaving Riverwood about being the Dragonborn. By virtue of being the PC I already know they are important, no need to throw it in my face.
Arena perhaps. Jaguar Tharn wasn't going to end the world. Battlespire also may be a contender. Yes, Mehrunes Dagon wants to capture the battlespire. But it's basically a school to train battlemages in a pocket dimension removed from Nirn.
As much as I prefer this, the buildup of the Thalmor definitely sets ES6 to be a massively important main quest. I suppose it could go like the Witcher 3 where the main quest starts as very personal and ends up being incredibly world endy.
An actually intriguing corruption investigation in the Aldmeri Dominion, the successor of the Mede dynasty, or the now independent Skyrim, Hammerfell, Elsweyr, Morrowind etc.
Questwise, start in the middle class, where everyone is wealthy enough to not have issues with the authorities but not wealthy enough to influence politics. Then go to the lower class and learn how the authority fucks them in the ass and takes advantage of their lack of political power. Finally go to the upper class and discover how they influence politics and then start a vigilante group or so to punish meddling in politics and restore the empire to its former largely benevolent state.
It starts off similar to the oblivion thieves guild, just better and without the appearance of some weird personal stake of the guild leader
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