Toxic shame is like a never ending emotional flashback.

That feeling deep in your soul that you are broken, defective, bad. The slightest look of disapproval sends you into a spiral of self hate and disgust. The constant hypervigilance, scanning people’s faces, their mood, their body language, looking for any sign that they are mad at you, that you have been bad. You feel like an open wound visible for all to see and alls you want to do is hide, hide yourself, hide your shame, hide from the world.

Edit: I am reading a really great book that talks a lot about shame. It is called, conquering shame and codependency. It is probably one of the best books I have read on the subject and even if you are not codependent the chapters that focus on shame are invaluable.

in CPTSDby Spiderpsychman98

1.1K

100%

1.5y

UmbrellaWeather0

279

1.5y

For me it would be that sense of inferiority, never being good enough or deserving enough, (stupid, ugly, something wrong with me) and constantly scanning for negative judgement.

Spiderpsychman98

1.5y

The feeling of inferiority I can definitely relate too.

LilianaCole

1.5y

The important thing to remember is that we create our own self worth and it's a habit combination of the things we say to ourselves, and inner work on releasing negative emotion like shame, anger, and pain. We have to find the root of where our shame comes from so we can heal it for good.

You wouldn't take a little girl (or boy, if you're a guy) and put him in a corner and make him feel the way you feel or say the things you say to yourself to them. Retrain yourself and treat yourself as precious and worthy of love. We are the only ones who can do it, I know it sucks, but we can support each other and love each other and work through it together. And that's what this sub's all about. It brings me joy to see all of you and be here with you, I am grateful for it. :)

vivalabaroo

1.5y

I know that your comment comes from a good place, but it doesn’t sit right with me. We dont create our own self worth - our self worth stems from the worth we are told and shown we have when young. Loving, present parents show their children that they are important and they matter. As a result, those kids tend to internalize a high level of self worth, and there thus less vulnerable to toxic shame.

We can learn that we are worthy at a later age, but it is really hard and it is not our fault that we weren’t taught that we matter when we’re younger.

LilianaCole

1.5y

I understand where you're coming from, I've felt it before, I respect it and I'm not going to invalidate where you are at in your healing proccess.

The only thing I will say is that if those that are vulnerable like you and I continue to let other people determine our worth and value, we will forever be a slave to everything and everyone outside of ourselves, and if we live our lives that way, truly doubling down out of grief because of everything that happened to us, we may throw away our joy and fulfillment because of it. This is victim mindset vs survivor/accountability mindset.

I internalized low self-worth. The way people treated me was severe and very few people saw who I was and everyone wanted something from me, and what they all had in common was that 'something' benefited them and disregarded who I was and what I needed in the process.

Things changed for me when I learned to truly build myself up through self care and self work/improvement. I realized that the only person who determined who I was, is me, as well as the actions I choose to make. I had have integrity and re-build and re-create who I was, to choose how I wanted my life to be, and release myself from influence of the abusers and what they wanted me to be. I had to be loving towards myself, and that took a lot of strength. I was literally all I had for a while, and it was honestly excruciating because I also have severe OCD (intrusive thoughts, inner critic on steroids). I have had to build the habit consistently, but in truly understanding and learning to release the internalized shame, my life is now truly my own. I love myself so much, and I admire my own strength. I respect myself and I became one of my most cherished people, and that reflects in my relationships and in my life in general. That is absolutely priceless and worth the struggle, and I wish it for everyone.

It is absolutely not your fault... but unfortunately for us, it absolutely our responsibility to pick up the pieces and create something beautiful that we can finally find peace in.

vivalabaroo

1.5y

I’m so glad you’re at that place! Sounds very healthy. I actually feel similarly to you - I have drastically improved my self worth as well. The reason I commented is because cptsd often comes with the feeling that everything that happens is our fault and was somehow deserved. At least for me, beginning to build up my self worth really necessarily came first from understanding that having my parents isn’t something I deserved, and as a result, the way I feeel about myself isn’t something I deserve or am at fault for.

LilianaCole

1.5y

I understand. I'm really grateful for your recovery too. :D *High five*

The_Almighty_Claude

1.5y

What resources and actions were most valuable in learning this for yourself?

LilianaCole

1.5y

I really like the way you asked that, and I am very happy and excited to help you.

The way I speak to myself changed. I used to beat myself up for mistakes, now I talk myself through things like I'm a twin almost. I speak to myself, and work through whatever I feel like that, and it's also a wonderful feeling that someone's always there with me, and it makes me feel very complete to have almost like a partnership with myself. Being able to communicate with myself and ask myself 'why am I feeling so stressed?' 'I feel anxious... why am I feeling so anxious? Don't trip, baby I got you. I love you, we'll get through whatever it is, we're all good.' is extremely important in pinpointing the source of your distress and soothing yourself in the moment of it. When you recognize the source, you can identify what triggers you, dive into it a bit, then find understanding and release some of the pain of the root cause of it through compassion for yourself and acceptance of whatever is causing you to react this way. This action is paramount.

Another action is to read and educate myself on the struggles my heart is going through. You may focus on your self-worth now, but then realize, by Googling how you feel and reading up on psychology that all along you may have been supressing panic attacks, or you may have had ADHD or ODC that you were dealing with at the same time. We are a whole person, so being able to address our pain as a whole is extremely important. For example, I'm an expert with my OCD now, I understand introjection, and the difference between shutting down my emotions and existing in a chaotic emotional state, and how to take care of myself when these things happen. I can soothe myself when I disassociate, I understand sometimes I go through depersonalization, and educating myself on these things to understand what my body, heart, and mind are going through, helps me manage it.

Something that follows this one, is being able to recognize what it FEELS like when I'm experiencing intrusive thoughts, shame, depression, anxiety, panic, or dissassociation. Knowledge is important, but the ability to speak to myself and actually move through/release my suffering comes from this action. For me, I supressed a tremendous amount of energy/emotion and I'm very efficient at doing it. A lot of the time I'm numb and in shut down, so being able to pick up on the subtle energetic clues to identify how I'm truly feeling is extremely important. Then I can self-soothe, and begin talking to myself and working through it, like I explained in the first paragraph.

I've read books such as 'Daring Greatly' by Brene Brown to help with my self-worth. That book is high school level easy to read, and it helps tremendously, so I recommend it highly to anyone with self-worth struggles. Basically it's a shame expert explaining these things, but in a story telling, empathetic format with levels of compassion that anyone struggling with these things will appreciate and connect to. She also has other books that help.

The last action that I can recommend is a bundle of actions that encompass great self care. This is (as you see, haha) a lot to handle, at least the level I experience. No matter what level anyone is at though, it's imperative when dealing with trauma to execute great self care. It is paramount and basic in regulating brain chemistry to enable healing in the first place. Getting enough sleep is extremely important, having a clean, well organized area and organizing your to-do list is important, as well as enough water, and eating organic, unprocessed foods (no chemicals or harmful perservatives). Next, doing exercise is important. It's important to do cardio as well as weight lifting/stretching exercises. For trauma, yoga in particular is necessary as it reconnects you with your body and teaches you to be present, by teaching you to move slow and really experience the moment, as well as releases stress and relaxes your tension. (Manging tension and inflamation enable your body to function. Having too much of this is like creating blockages and your body will become diseased trying to deal with it, and it takes years off your life.) A lot of people who experience trauma are stuck in the past (depression) or stuck in the future (anxiety) so yoga cannot be stressed enough as an empowering and important part of recovery. Yoga with Adrienne is my go to, she truly connects with you, she's compassionate, empowering, and truly speaks to these principals. Following that idea, the necessity of meditation in healing can't be overstated either. It's for the same reasons, but additionally and most importantly meditation enables us to access our subconscious and release some of the chaos and suffering that builds up there, as well as, eventually, with enough practice, master control over our thoughts and energy, which I don't have to tell you why that's beneficial. Also, in accessing your subconscious, your intuition and subconscious will do a lot of work for you. It will speak to you and show you the suffering it desires to process and release, and help you pinpoint things that you struggle with. Learning to listen to it is extremely important. I recommend Michael Sealey on Youtube, his 20 minute morning meditation and his Chakra meditation are great to start with, and then he has specific meditations for things you may need help processing and targeting. Fighting, wrestling, or boxing is also recommended, as it gives you a sense of security, with the knowledge that you are truly capable of taking care of yourself, no matter what. Cardio is great too. Being in nature is important, as nature has a soothing effect on the human body. Hiking or going to places surrounded by trees or water naturally decompresses human beings and soothes our stress mechanisms.

Last, but extremely soothing and important is processing through music, (I like NF: Mansion, Pvris: Mirrors, Pierce The Veil: Flair FTD + Selfish Machines, and lots of love songs to remind me why I'm working on myself, to someday experience true love.) writing, (I write music, and I also have a book I'm handwriting based on my experience with OCD with a paranormal and spiritual twist, haha.) and doing things and being with people you love and enjoy to decompress the weight of it. (support systems are necessary, so keep company with non-toxic, compassionate people you respect, I also like video games like Dark Souls, horror games, (since I'm so brave anyway haha.) and fighting games like League of Legends.) Fighting in particular, and learning how to, (it's good exercise as well, but I'm just learning the theory through games right now, so baiting, matching movement, initiating, almost like a dance.) has made me feel more secure and more confident in myself, like I could take care of myself no matter what. Feeling self-sufficient is always key in becoming/regaining your health.

I've had to have deep understanding of it in order for me to heal, so I told you a lot of what I know. It's a lot, but it's worth it. Let me know if you have any questions.

The_Almighty_Claude

1.5y

This is immensely helpful. I saved all of this haha.

The funny thing is, I could see myself writing exactly this in the future. I've not been doing well lately, and when I think back on times I was functioning way better I realize I was doing a lot of the things on this list, most ESPECIALLY when my self talk was positive and loving. That made the biggest difference of all. This is all a really great reminder for me of where I have gone off track.

And I can actually pinpoint the main reason I've backslid so much lately. I've gotten closer to a specific friend. He is fun and has a good heart, but he also has a history of trauma and is quite critical in subtle ways (the nit picky/passive aggressive type that will constantly find something to be annoyed with me at) and I didn't realize how much spending so much time with him absolutely inflamed my own inner critic. It's been really eyeopening. It really speaks to your section on surrounding yourself with positive people. I have other lovely friends and I never feel bad after hanging out with them, and in fact I feel quite peaceful and happy, but with this other friend I always left feeling inadequate and not knowing why, really. I've now separated myself from this friend so that I can get back on my healing journey.

I really loved the sections about connecting with and soothing emotions, because i am 1000% the type to numb or escape. I’ve started meditating in this last week and have noticed small but important differences already. At your suggestion I’m going to incorporate yoga immediately.

And the sections about music and writing also really connected w me! When I’m doing well I notice I am much more creative.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write this out—I was looking for something thorough and actionable and this really spells it all out. You’ve really helped me :)

Nikkywoop

4mo

Perhaps the best comment anywhere ever. I have read it multiple times. It helps so much.

CaraLinder

1.5y

I've found that self compassion, and mindfulness are honestly so effective for me. Being able to ground myself, and be comfortable just being in my body without judgment makes a world of difference. Of course I'm still learning, and I mess up or forget, but being able to forgive and accept myself makes healing so much easier. I had to really fully commit, but I've been doing so much better.

The_Almighty_Claude

1.5y

Thank you!

I’ve had a backslide lately and realized I’d been very focused on needing others to treat me a certain way, and being a victim to others, and having a lot of anger towards others. Today I committed to focusing again on what I can control within myself and having self compassion and has helped immensely already.

CaraLinder

1.5y

I'm so happy for you! Honestly the smallest steps are the most important ones. Remembering to use our coping skills, even after a while, is something to be proud of every time ☺

LilianaCole

1.5y

Sorry about the long post, but thank you for asking that. I will be sharing my thought exercise with family and friends, and future people who need this kind of instruction. The structure of your question really triggered me into being so thourough, so thank you so much for asking in this way.

I wish you healing and recovery, and I thank you so much. :)

throwaway329394

165

1.5y

That's a good description. Also I would remember things from my past and feel the shame. I would get those shame hits all throughout the day. I don't think it's a normal shame though, it feels like the end of the world.

Spiderpsychman98

1.5y

Yes I can relate, you remember something you did and feel a strong sense of self disgust and embarrassment.

raclnp

1.5y

I don't think it's a normal shame though, it feels like the end of the world.

I was about to write something similar. It hurts so bad, and everything feels pointless, and all disagreements or rejections/judgements come back all at once.

Fear for your future, safety, and like you will be completely shunned in general. It makes you also very needy for anyones approval so you feel you don't fall into a bottomless pit.

throwaway329394

1.5y

Fear for your future, safety, and like you will be completely shunned in general.

This is spot on. It's clear to me now it's trauma-based because of it. I think this started very early because it's almost like a biological response to abandonment. A baby or young child can't survive alone. That's why the shame feels so strong sort of like a fear of death. The rejection means death to the child, something to be left to the wild animals, worthless, unprotected. I know I was left alone as baby, and didn't cry. Probably because I was in survival mode. This is something so deep it can't be reasoned away, it's in the body.

LilianaCole

1.5y

Please get the book Daring Greatly by Brene Brown. She's a shame researcher and her book is easy read as butter. It's a very healing perspective, and it's important for anyone who experiences these things.

LostSoulSearching13

127

1.5y

Yes. Ive been in my dream job, had my own home, had a partner, done shit in life I should have felt good and proud about...yet didn't. There's never been a time when shame isn't with me. Everytime my mind criticises or speaks to me I hear the exact same words my parents used to use. Same tone. Same word usage. They don't even need to say shit to me anymore, I automatically do it to myself, like a form of brain washing. Scary as fuck

a_rythm_invisible

1.5y

I know this scary brainwash feeling. I can relate. It’s so difficult to congratulate and celebrate one self with toxic shame. It’s difficult to feel pride, success, or joy in my life and successes because I don’t feel connected to them. Even when I try to have an awareness of it, it just doesn’t feel like mine to own. But the shame always does. I hope to get there one day though ❤️

Manifestecstacy

1.5y

Yeah, it's like I've been trained in part for self-deprecation. Or like I've been wired to be belittling to myself. I feel constantly vulnerable and a bit defenseless, feeling like an attack is imminent; either, verbal, physical, or psychological. The effects of the, what I suppose, is trauma can be perpetuated when you see yourself as this frail being; having learned helplessness. It's a horrifically mortifying place to be in; the shame. I hope that you will overcome and live a fulfilling and great life.

LostSoulSearching13

1.5y

Ya I hear this. The shame is like a prison sentence for a crime we didn't commit

Manifestecstacy

1.5y

It reinforces the trauma.

Nikkywoop

7mo

I so relate to what you all shared here. It’s constant for me nearly, the awareness of my own shame and the constant ruminating about it. I guess it really is trauma.

greeneyedciel

117

1.5y

I think the worst part is no one understands. Embarrassment is you did something. Shame is you are something. And when you experience chronic shame you're now having this engrained. You are a disappointment. You are hated. You are these awful things.

Positivity and just having people say that's not true. Like oh ghee whiz thanks. I will realize that now and all these past traumas and experiences shall be replaced by your statement for pointing out how illogical my thought process is.

And the worst part is you're right OP. It's just continuous. It's never ending. I wish I could climb out of it or offer some encouragement other than mood. I feel that. I am this too.

Spiderpsychman98

1.5y

Yes that is the worst part by far, shame isn’t an emotional response to doing something embarrassing or bad, it is a constant state of being.

greeneyedciel

1.5y

Exactly. It's something people who do not have CPTSD, and something sometimes even people who have it, will never understand. It's so engrained. I have never not been shame. I have never not been told I am bad, I am a burden, I am a disappointment. I have never not thought this or told myself these things about myself.

Someone telling me that isn't true is not going to fix it or make me go wow I guess that isn't true.

It's a whole reparenting process and the worst part is I have no idea if it will work. If it will heal it. I've never met anyone who overcame their CPTSD. That's what I'm not afraid of.

I've read so many books. I read the toxic shame that binds, Pete walker's book, Jenna Fischer's fragmented selves. I've read so much and done so much therapy and I am still trapped in shame and shame cycles. I just now have more memories that I used to. I have more shame than when I first started. That's what sucks.

I hope someone offers you some kindness or insight you can take to heart to help in this thread. Unfortunately, other than going through it and understanding your thought process and feelings, I don't have anything useful for you. I wish there was a cure for it.

Spiderpsychman98

1.5y

It must be hard for you to try so hard and still feel this way. My advice would be though to not give up hope, keep researching, keep reading and keep doing everything you can to heal, even if it takes the rest of your life. A life spent healing is better than a life spent in pain. And yes whilst healing you may still be in pain but at least you are pushing back against your past and trying to find out who you are in the present, underneath all of the pain and the trauma.

greeneyedciel

1.5y

Hopefully I reach a place where I can hear and believe you. Right now it's just out of reach but thank you.

Injuinac

1.5y

Your brain tells you that other people's behavior around you means they have negative opinions about you but simultaneously you're also being taught in therapy to trust yourself and your feelings because during your (abusive) childhood your feelings were invalidated. These are contradictory things. Should I trust my own feelings when my feelings tell me that everyone who interacts with me dislikes me for good reason? I hate myself because I feel like a person who can't be loved because I'm too broken and everything I excel at is just a product of how broken I am. I'm amazing at my job but I feel like that's because I work constantly and have no family and a very limited social life so I spend most of my time working or thinking about work. You'd have to be a crazy person to dive into work the way that I do so even my success at work feels shameful for me because i feel like a healthy person would never obsess over work like I do and my skill at my job reveals my internal brokenness. I feel like everyone I work with can see how broken I am and while they admire my skill, they pity me because I'm not healthy like them, I don't have a partner, I don't have a family, i don't have many friends. I can't even date anymore because I feel like any person who looks in my eyes can see that I'm broken. I've been in therapy more than a decade...

throwaway83970

1.5y

I think it's not that you have more shame, it's that you are becoming aware of it.

livinontheceiling

1.5y

Like oh ghee whiz thanks.

Totally. I feel like this was sort of the crux of what my therapist was doing when she badgered me with compliments and praise of different kinds. It NEVER helped. Like so, what? I should replace my opinion of myself with yours, when you don't even really know me? Cool that's helpful

greeneyedciel

1.5y

Same. They just don't get it. People who haven't gone through this will never get it.

itsmechaboi

this is my flair

1.5y

Felt. Over the course of a few months of therapy I realized that I am terrified of everyone and everything at all times and have been on guard basically as long as I have been alive.

We tried to do a meditation session in one session and it was a first time experience for me and I had never felt more uncomfortable in my life, being right on the verge of letting go. That one session really opened up a lot of insight into what is going on in my disaster of a brain.

Hopefully one day we can learn to let go and to love, be loved and feel things as they come as they are instead of being in a constant state of hypervigilance.

Spiderpsychman98

1.5y

Yes I relate to this, I always have a guard up. Sometimes in work I will start having a laugh and a joke with my colleagues and my inner critic will tell me to stop, it will tell me I am being to friendly and that this will leave me vulnerable and open to attack.

Nikkywoop

7mo

I so relate to this. Constantly terrified of everyone and everything. Relieving in a way to know others relate but that won’t stop the pain.

Vendixta

1.5y

I feel exactly like this! It just breaks your soul..

Typhlojian

1.5y

I wish there was a solution for this, besides weed

RainbowPrincess37

1.5y

Ugh this is way too relatable, I was doing better but then some things happened and now it's like this all over again, the constant feeling of me being "wrong" and constant need to apologize for literally existing.

socradeeznuts514

1.5y

Oops did I drop this here?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1swgHgE60cIsM7YZSQjUm99o_YRO-0CnO/view?usp=drivesdk

pacachan

1.5y

Sus

socradeeznuts514

1.5y

Healing the Shame that Binds

By John Bradshaw

He has many interesting YouTube videos

Here's one on toxic shame https://youtu.be/UBAAgdRHWlM

This for example is my favorite series https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4wA21d2cgvEoCnGkVBFG-RrQA-qGxaD-

It's incredible that in 1985 somebody knew so much.

He is in many videos of my self healing playlist https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQun1ee6u9NZWO71azTBeRzSl3yGxlnF1

I love you, and I am getting out of the iron sphere around my mind called toxic shame

BlibbetyBlobBlob

1.5y

Omg yes! I can't believe the videos of his lectures don't have more views. His work has been so helpful to me in my recovery.

socradeeznuts514

1.5y

I make it my life's mission to share him everywhere it's needed.

I also teach my students similar things, like "it's ok to feel, it's ok to feel, it's ok to feel".

mionru

1.5y

I watched the toxic shame one & he was on point thank you so much for this

socradeeznuts514

1.5y

He also has a series called Homecoming, about reclaiming the child inside of you that had to adapt to toxic situations growing up.

I am very happy to have been of help!!!

mionru

1.5y

Will you mind sharing the link I really need that 😭

socradeeznuts514

1.5y

Ask and ye shall receive!

Knock and it shall be opened for you!

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4wA21d2cgvG_Q5cB1pnwNO6CoEk65W5G

It's possible the playlist doesn't work from there, so you can just start from the first video.

https://youtu.be/xz-TqZzY2DY

I love shopping extremely slowly at the grocery store while listening to this, it's so soothing!

However, I also suggest you give yourself some space to feel those repressed emotions, some of it gets REALLY intense, but anger is necessary at some parts. Your emotions WERE valid, and you needed them mirrored by caring parents, you needed them to be recognized, and if you didn't have the chance to express them, they might have been stored in you, and they will need to be processed.

It's doable!!! You can do it!!!!

If you go seeking, ye will find!!!!

mionru

1.5y

You're lifesaver, alright so I watched the video you recommended last night there was too much information for me to actually to hold so I am answering late but it was really helpful there are things I barely thought about a lot of things make sense now. I like how the guy uses humour inbetween the lines whenever the subject gets tough idk why nobody talks about him he's actually on point as someone who cannot afford therapy rn it helps a lot. Sure there's feeling of numbness & sadness but in satisfying way idk if I'm wording it right but thanks again I'll watch the whole playlist as well :D

socradeeznuts514

1.5y

Just go be sure, you know it's ten videos, right?

It is a lot of information, I like to relisten to it, and I always catch something new.

Therapy is expensive as fuck, and it also has the possibility of giving someone the wrong impression that the healing is in somebody else's hands, so one might lose their own power by giving it away.

That numbness and sadness that feels satisfying I think is called the feeling of hope and healing. If you want another trail of information, look up Nonviolent communication (San Francisco workshop to start, then come see me for the rest), it's like the tenth video of my big playlist, dude with puppets.

What he does is that he teaches you to connect your feelings to your needs, and to do the same with others. It gives you agency, and eventually you come to welcome each and everyone of your emotions because they each have a message for you.

I am very happy to see that I have had a positive impact. If it helps you, pass the word around, maybe with your cousins first, they are usually the msot receptive lol!

mionru

1.5y

I only watched one yet I'll watch all of them one by one it's just there's so many things in it I need to process through & practice with myself so it'll likely take time

Therapy is expensive & I'm not sure if the therapist is reliable there's a lot of things to unpack & I will get vulnerable if I do open up, ik I have issues but I am not really comfortable talking about things that are very personal to me to a stranger the idea of it is scary.

I never heard about them thanks for another information I do want to move on & heal so badly but I just lack any touch with my own emotions watching toxic shame video reminded me how I was never really taught to say no when I am hurt & I doubt if I actually ever said that I tried practicing it altho I was just trying to verbalize it to myself it was really satisfying to say almost like a burden lifted off my shoulders.

Again thank you for sharing such info, I do have some friends who may really need it I'll pass them those videos again a bunch thanks :D

Continue thread...

[deleted]

1.5y

Do something that takes that feeling away. Volunteer somewhere. Visit an elderly person in a nursing home this holiday season. You will realize you’re not broken, you were surrounded by broken people who skewed your view of your sensitive self. 💜💜💜

Spiderpsychman98

1.5y

How do you think doing these things would relieve these feelings?

[deleted]

1.5y

You would realize how much you matter just for being you. No one knows anything about you but your kind heart for being there. I think that energy helps to heal.

ResponsibleFig6140

10mo

Agreed. Altruism is another way to not feel the shame. And I find that it probably wouldn't help with my shame.

Spiderpsychman98

10mo

I’ve done this in the past but it turned into moral perfectionism. I had to be morally perfect in order to keep the shame at bay and that is just no way to live.

ResponsibleFig6140

10mo

Exactly. Thats what. And I don't see how they don't see it. Everything they claim to be doing newly or as virtuous is something I did as a kid and I feel like they have no fucking clue what they're talking about.

a_rythm_invisible

1.5y

I relate to this so much. We aren’t alone 🫶 I was just on the train ride home a few minutes ago ruminating in toxic shame. Slipping in and out of perspectives; challenging it, indulging in it, investigating it, feeling cursed by it. It’s holding me back in so many ways and constantly feeling tangled in it and managing it is so exhausting.

88CORES

religious trauma, ex-jw

1.5y

this is why i love this sub cause y’all just explain shit so well

goodenoughenough

1.5y

I wish toxic shame was talked more about in the mainstream. It is so crushing. I too suffer from it. The way you described it fits very well with me. Have read a few books about toxic shame. It seems really difficult to heal. But I think truly understanding it is not your fault we have it the first step. And probably grieving the fact that we have only known what its like to live like that. And also, getting to feel anger and disgust at the people who caused it. The last part is very dif for me. I feel angry but I still fawn to these people. But Ive read that chronic shame is something yiu are going to have to manage your entire life, even if you get to a place of healing.

Sanchastayswoke

1.5y

You just described me to a T, especially the hypervigilance to the slightest change in anyone else’s demeanor or expression 😩 it’s EXHAUSTING. For me AND other people because it usually triggers my fawning response which ends up making things worse.

AllTheWine05

1.5y

I'm sorry for the book here but I hope you can relate to my own realizations and progress.

I've had a lot of shame growing up. There's a lot of issues, most of them are small but repetitious. The one that I think roots a lot of the others is one that I have just figured out in my mid-thirties.

https://youtu.be/xITOAxzScCU

Probably a scene you're familiar with. Warren is on the spectrum and has a touch sensitivity about his ears. For whatever reason, touching his ears makes him feel attacked, and he responds totally reasonably for his experience in life.

Now I'm on the spectrum somewhere. Never diagnosed, and mostly I can convince people I'm not. But among some of the bits of my brains mis-wiring is this "chess function". In certain conversations I can very accurately, very quickly predict the outcomes of everything I can think to say. When they all seem to be going negative, I tend to get irrationally flustered. And it always goes downhill quickly.

It's almost worse that I seem normal because then everyone else has no fucking clue what the fuck I'm doing. Growing up, I would often be pushed to explain myself but I knew I didn't have 2 hours to do it out I'd confuse everyone anyway. It lead to what seemed to others to be an anger problem. I always knew that my anger was justified but could never explain it, and I had a family that totally invalided my feelings.

What I was left with was a feeling of being deeply broken and isolated. I approached everything in life as if none of my emotions were right and I trained myself to read the room and react accordingly. I'm good at a lot of things but's impossible not to develop a sense of imposter syndrome in that environment. It's pervades every aspect of my life and stopped me from having enough confidence to really be what I know I can be.

I've been seeing a girl for a couple of months. She's one of the most emotionally intelligent people I know and probably a touch on the spectrum herself. I've been more open and raw than almost anyone else in life. But a couple days ago we had a perfectly pleasant conversation that somehow went down that route where it seemed impossible to fix and recover. I did what I could to keep cool and explain that despite what it seems, I'm no longer able to explain anything without getting everything wrapped around the axle. She continued to ask what I was trying to say and why I wanted to stop, and I started yelling and triggered her past trauma response. As I predicted and warned, we got into a very very dark place. We spent 2 days not talking, myself in crippling shame.

Talking it over after a few hours of not being able to talk, I worked out what I described above. What I realized is that the shame I feel is totally undeserved and based in being effectively the first person on the planet to have a touch sensitivity. Of course, Warren should not be ashamed of his ear sensitivity any more than I should be ashamed of my own mis-wiring.

TL:DR: I am mis-wired. I am broken and wrong in some ways. But so are most people in various ways. Just because your issues are less common doesn't mean you can't understand them and honestly realize that you don't deserve to be treated the way you treat yourself. It's ok to have issues and I'd bet that whatever makes you so ashamed of yourself is explainable and acceptable. Because you don't have to be perfect to be happy with who you are.

Lanadelrey_kindagirl

1.5y

This is exactly how i feel every single day. Wow. Its emotional to read, cause for the longest time i couldnt exactly describe it or explain it, i just felt misunderstood or like im broken, thankfs for being so vulnerable yet brave to share this, im really thankful, i hope we can get better in the future<3

Pynkalicious

1.5y

Thank you for these posts...the honesty and the vulnerability. I am not alone, there are others like me.

pr1marycolor

1.5y

YES THIS 100%

[deleted]

1.5y

It is

burnin8t0r

1.5y

Yeah it's a constant thrum, but sometimes it makes be blush so hard it literally hurts

Michele345

1.5y

I'm so on guard I can barely leave the house. It's 2xhausting to be so hyper-vigilant.

AvailableSolution584

1.5y

Spot on.

Anytime I make a mistake of any form/fashion, major/minor, I'll loudly call myself out immediately in a negative fashion to try and avoid/lessen any punishment. Even when I'm alone.

smalls714

1.5y

Makes me want to close myself up in a shed and hide away from people entirely...oh wait I'm doing that I'll shut up now.

susanasusana9

1.5y

One thing that helped me a little to overcome shame was realizing that all my “bad behavior” as a child wasn’t really my fault. What I mean is, when I (4yo) had my first traumatic event my parents didn’t help me nor did I asked for their help (bc I didn’t feel safe enough with them to ask for their help). Following years I had so much shame and anger towards myself for not trusting my parents. Now at 23 I found out it wasn’t bc I was a bad kid, but bc from the start they weren’t good at being parents and didn’t provide me with enough security to form healthy attachment. Lifting that weight from my shoulders made me so much less ashamed not only about that tragic event I was blaming myself for (really, how could a 4 year old ask for/cause such a thing to happen to her???) but also for my “unstable” behavior growing up. Now it turns out I have CPTSD and BPD traits and I’m feeling good at blaming my parents for my toxic traits (jk, but not really) 😉. Hope it helps

Real_Ad_9119

1.5y

I'm going thru this right now and I don't really know what triggered it but I feel like I'm constantly ruminating on experiences that validate why I should feel like shit about myself and maybe why I would be better off not in anyone's life.

I know it's irrational but it's strong.

I just keep thinking of all the times I've been made to feel weird and ugly and annoying.

Even if it's things that have been worked thru with the other person. My brain is like even if they apologized after, they wouldn't have said it if they didn't mean it.

[deleted]

1.5y

I wonder what I did aside from being autistic. Then I spiral to well what if that person wanted to harm me too? What if they publically shame me. What if I stare at them? What if they too end up thinking I have perversion instead of a trauma hangup? It's literally PTSD hypervigalence and a form of OCD I thought I got over in middle school. But, shame me enough, dehumanized me enough, say I'm doing such and such. I end up in a self fulfilled prophecy. I have no thoughts but fear and dread around others. Their gaze makes me choke. I'm not sexually attracted to you, I'm having a flashback.

[deleted]

1.5y

I end up so disgusted by people and myself I end up fasting in isolation

TuesdayShuffle

1.2y

"fasting in isolation"....... feck......I just forced myself to eat yesterday bc I hadn't eaten for 2 days. I feel like if I eat I won't be ready for the inevitable reckoning that is around the corner. I also am realizing a lot of things I thought were peculiarities growing up ,(i.e. crippling shame, depression, and anxiety), were actually things I needed to address.

ARRokken

1.5y

Hah what’s funny is I do that some but my parent was highly reactive emotionally, verbally, and has very stern and judging facial expressions with all of that.

It’s not just me. And, only get worse if you mention it. I’ll sneeze during a movie or cough and it pisses him off. It’s a lot. I’m always tense. My social anxiety comes more from him the person who raised and not the mother who killed themselves. Lol

[deleted]

1.5y

same

[deleted]

1.5y

Olay fuck toxic shame. I'm beyond open about things because fuck stigma. I have to be slightly compartmentalised because of the nature of my interests 😅 anyways there are three major things in my friend circle that I smash stigma around. I've been kept quiet my whole life and I'm not doing it anymore. I didn't do anything wrong and I'm allowed to be myself.

Aboogart

1.5y

🖤😔

WiltThaStilt

1.5y

im 6"9 and 30 soon and since 15 being ashamed at my height and being locked in my home getting addicted to porn i cant overcome the feelings of sorrow and regret for all those years and the years to come fuck life bye thanks

RosesByTheStairs182

1.2y

Just wanted to say thanks for this book recommendation. Reading it now, resonating with every word in the intro.

NovelCheck7371

6mo

Whenever i feel like this i feel so unbelievably disgusted by myself. I physically almost throw up sometimes cause i cant stand seeing myself. Its getting better with time though i hope

Nikkywoop

4mo

This is the most helpful thread I ever read. I have felt so alone in my toxic shame.

Spiderpsychman98

4mo

Glad I could help. That is probably one of the worst things about toxic shame, the sense of isolation.

Nikkywoop

4mo

How are you doing now?

ClearSky5456

1mo

I didn’t realize until quite recently that this feeling is shame and that toxic shame has an influence on so much of my life. I guess recognizing it is a first step.

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1.5y

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jeniinabox

1.5y

this is so so real, thank you for this post

throwtheways77

1.5y

You explained this so well, thank you

[deleted]

1.5y

Manic depression is touching my soul
I know what I want but I just don't know
How to, go about gettin' it
Feeling sweet feeling,
Drops from my fingers, fingers
Manic depression is catchin' my soul
Woman so weary, the sweet cause in vain
You make love, you break love
It's all the same
When it's, when it's over, mama
Music, sweet music
I wish I could caress, caress, caress
Manic depression is a frustrating mess : Jimi Hendrix

I constantly hyper-vigilate a person's face and if any facial move is made, I immediately " view " it a negative barrage on my person. It is such a cluster F. I don't know how my other puts up with this, but then again, she has her own stuff, and Then again, I may be viewing her stuff as my own stuff and it becomes so muddled. Then when she speaks, I change my tune ti match hers. " WILL THE REAL ME PLEASE STAND UP !!!! ".

[deleted]

1.5y

That’s how I feel!!! Thank you for putting this in writing!!!

ogrechick

1.4y

Yep

[deleted]

1.0y

That dip in the self esteem is so hard to recover from fr

kingocito

4mo

It’s excruciating. For me it’s being bombarded about EVERYTHING in my whole life, attacking me for not doing things when I was younger, things I dreamed of, and yelling to me that it’s too late now. And that it’s all my fault. It’s a compulsive, forced comparison to everyone around me saying that they did so much better at my age. That I’m broken and pathetic and that I will never achieve anything. Extreme perfectionism. Extreme self hate. I isolate so hard. Because my extreme perfectionist also affects the people around me. I’m also judging them for not being perfect (I’m ofc not saying it to them). That’s too shameful to admit.

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