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I kinda had this the other day. We were playing a point based card game. I was at the bottom of the board with 4 points and a "friend" brought me down to 3 because he had to play that card on me (everyone else had 10-6 points.) Well I hit him every time I had a negative card and he ended up on the bottom. And I got told it's never fun to hit people when they are down. š Cool it's just fun to hit me when I'm down because it was such a funny card, gotcha.
Yeah, I don't like it either. My gf does this sometimes, with a smile though, but obviously my brain can't see it as anything other than a sadistic smirk. I know she doesn't mean harm, but I haven't had the courage to bring it up yet.
I logically don't understand this behaviour either. Why is it preferable to lie instead of saying nothing or being genuine? Why tear down someone you actually appreciate? What are we supposed to understand, when we're the target of this? Even non-traumatised people don't appreciate being talked to like this
I used to use sarcasm as a defense mechanism when people insulted me. I still use it sometimes around people who hold irrational beliefs about me or other things.
āSarcasm: the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded.ā - Fyodor Dostoevsky.
I do believe irony and sarcasm are out of control in American culture, especially among young people. If itās used too often by too many people things that should be taken seriously will lose their meaning.
That quote will be added to my list! Thank you. And agreed. The sarcasm irony is so ubiquitous it is hard to have proper dialogue sometimes
I canāt handle it, either. Mockery is the #1 way my family communicates and I was heavily bullied in school on top of that so people that āteaseā are not safe to me. Itās a pretty isolating way to feel. I canāt even watch Drag Race because I hate the way the queens talk to each other. My friends love it so Iāve tried to sit through multiple episodes but it just makes me so anxious. I think itās supposed to be funny but unfortunately, I canāt discern the difference between lighthearted ribbing and mean-spiritedness. For me, the effect is the same either way and so I just avoid those people and situations when I can.
Me too! The sarcasm on Drag Race, to my ear, has such a bite of maliciousness to it that I just hear mean words and not humor. And it's so popular that I felt bad about myself for not liking it. Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who feels like this.
I don't mind "bants" when I know the person doesn't mean it and I can clearly tell it's a joke. If I'm not sure I'll ask. It kinda ruins the joke, but I need clarification. There is literally one person who can bant with me. Anyone else, I never take it as a bant, I take it as an insult. It's a very fine line.
In short it's better to compliment people on good plays rather than focus on the bad plays and insults. Personally I think a lot of "shit talk" comes from unconfident people as a sorta projection or to balance it out.
I definitely see the balancing thing out. It's a childish response to bounce back "joke" that's gone over they line to make things even. It's more mature to ask them what they meant by that and let them know that's not okay or that we may not know them well enough for jokes like that.
Absolutely. My whole family culture is saturated with it. I grew up feeling bullied even though I knew they were joking. They used sarcasm with me before I was old enough to understand that they were joking, so by the time I understood it, the damage was done. Never use irony and sarcasm with kids younger than 12-14, and really: just don't, in general. Even with adults.
It just feels like bullying to me
I get super uncomfortable if it's someone I don't know. My friends and I tease/bully each other on the regular, especially during the game we play competitions against each other with. I don't understand it when some random person thinks they can tease and it wouldn't make someone uncomfortable.
Listen I'm a guy and I've expressed vulnerability in my circles before and it gets absolutely no traction. Like stone walled. That's from women and men. So I don't think it's as simple as that.
Men don't want to open that can of vulnerability they've been forced to keep down and buried to have relationships and I don't know what it is for women. I've had male psychologists be the same way, incredibly validating and empathetic to women but when it comes to me there seems to be no circumstance where empathy is acceptable.
And before everybody starts telling me you just need to find people who are like you. I do. They're in this forum. They're in the messages men send me saying I really resonate with what you say. But out there. No it's business as usual for so many of us. All kind of reinforcing this "degradation" of ourselves. If anything that's the only available way out vulnerability can be "seen". Seen enough to be laughed at.
I get it. I dislike it too. When I was alone for about and I could unwind some of that programming I felt exactly as you do. But since coming back to relationships it seems thats all that's acceptable.
We don't want to be like this but we've all got to peel back layers of sadness and deprivation together to do so from the first time someone reacted with disgust at us crying.
I'm not bagging you. I'm just saying it's indicative of the quiet suffering that we all have experienced continue to experience and are demanded to continue to experience.
from the first time someone reacted with disgust at us crying.
I realized this is how my vulnerability was reacted to as a baby, which is why I internalized emotional neglect. Internalized emotional neglect comes out in many ways. I'm really working on it with my therapist.
Can confirm! I've only been a man for 3 years and the difference between how I was treated as a woman versus now? It's indicative of a systematic issue that reaches across race, sex, religion, etc. Men get treated like SHIT.
Honestly, I can see why there's so many violent crimes. Even when men ask for help, they're shut down by EVERYONE. Family, doctors, friends... it's like when I became a man and people recognized me as a man my worth tanked. People became suspicious of me and treat me, still, like because I'm a man I'm more likely to commit some horrible crime.
Justice for our boys, for real. They're fucking in so much pain and they have no one.
Yes, we get treated like shit, and then people look at us and ask why.
Like how many times can you be harmed before you lose yourself. How many not so subtle snipes can you take at your existence when there is nothing on the other side.
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your experience.
Honestly feel as though it's acceptable in a lot of quarters to treat men like this and it just reinforces the incel-like attitudes a lot of young boys and men grow into or the idea that feeling or expressing emotions is going to get you attacked.
In a lot of cases people bringing up these issues are infact attacked as being mysogynists which just makes a lot of them double down and grow more and more bitter about the situation.
The thing about being treat as suspicious or dangerous in some way - absolutely fucking exhausting. I even remember going from getting friendly smiles and waves as a kid to the moment where people started giving me the side eye as if I was some kind of problem. I was probably around six or seven.
Ugh why can't we just admit that we're failing pretty much everybody as a society. Being a man, apart from feeling relatively safe these days, fucking sucks.
You don't, you don't need those toxic man groups in your life.
Sarcasm and passive-agressiveness are not acceptable ways to communicate or joke around
in ANY kind of relationship.
When I watch those sorts of streams, I have to disable the chat. That stuff is beyond tedious at this point.
For me, it depends on how well I know the person and what they say. Me and my friends curse at each other when messing around, but there's boundaries we respect.
An example: I teased my friend/roommates for making the toilet seat greasy whenever he used the bathroom. He didn't find that funny at all, so I apologized and never make jokes like that anymore.
An example involving me: I was being teased by my old friend. He was joking about my and my gf (at the time) asthma. I snapped and told him to fuck off. He crossed a boundary.
These jokes can be in jest, but they can also be used as masking for sure. Like, self-deprecating jokes can undermind our confidence or put ourselves down. It can also be used as humor if you know you're not being serious.
The way I see it is that it comes down to respect of other people's boundaries, transparency of when something goes too far, and knowing/trusting who you're making jokes with.
It took me a long time to be able to handle that kind of thing, but if you're with people you trust and care about, it's really quite fun. Definitely not for everyone, though.
Not just men, the girl I was seeing does the same thing. She's sarcastic when I'm trying to be vulnerable, even just telling her 'Oh you feel bad, I'd love to give you a hug' she responds with 'of course you do'. Jesus h Christ. Yeah I've noticed that I don't want to be around those people when it comes to those topics.
Woman here. I prefer the you old ugly bastard comments from my male friends. It means I'm safe there..they accept me. The worse the insult the better. Because it's said as jokes. And it means nobody is trying to fuck me. I can not do woman's jokes though. They tend to just be cruel.
I totally understand where you"re coming from. I am a woman btw. I see men put each other down all the time, as like you said a "joke". It definitely happens more among men. My own family bullied me like this too btw and they are all women. But i also saw it a lot in school when i watched the guy groups. Made me think I would hate being one to be honest. Women are usually raised to be more compassionate and and nice. I see it a lot with "alpha gym bros" lol. these people are insecure and don't have the backbone to tell someone what they really think in a straightforward way in my opinion. I get incredibly angry seeing it happening, as someone who as been deeply hurt by it!! We need to educate people on how to be respectful and considerate!
ā¦sarcasm? well then you certainly wouldnāt like being around me
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It makes me super uncomfortable tbh. Especially if there's a power dynamic, they tease you but make you feel like a shitty person if you do it back. Just feels like an excuse for bullying. If I know someone well enough and I know they can take it as well as they dish it out, then I'm more ok with it.