As a man with C-PTSD, is it unhealthy that I only prefer to be around women?

1. Your therapist is a fucking idiot and his analogy is shit. Iron does not sharpen iron, literally. We use stone or ceramic to sharpen, or even diamond-coated plates if you're fancy. You can use a steel to hone a blade, but it's really just unrolling the edge. Also, hanging around dudes is not going to make you manly if it's not something you want.

2. I lack a formal diagnosis, but the tell-tales of behavior and history of abuse are all there. Like you, I vastly prefer the company of women. Most of my friends are female, the males are few and far between. Oddly enough, my abuser was female, my mother.

I think my preference stems from having few positive interactions with men, and quite a few negative. My abuser would antagonize everyone, and since my father was away most of the time, I would do my best to "defend" my mother. This led to a lot of negative interactions with guys that were justifiably pissed at my mother, who would then browbeat, insult or threaten me because I was daring to confront them. Didn't help that I was a bit fat, a bit bookish, a bit sensitive, and emotionally a bit all over the place. My male role models weren't in "masculine" fields and my mother actively suppressed anyone from teaching me "masculine" skills and roles. She wanted a daughter, and pushed me that way while deriding me for not being masculine enough.

Anyway, I never clicled with other guys, largely because of that "top dog" mentality and the need to insult one another, and then want to throw punches if you insult them back.

So I'm there with you. I prefer conversations and activities with women, most of my close friends are women.

Note, past this point I just ramble about my experiences:

You know what did manage to change my dynamic, and what I think may have helped most with my recovery? Puberty gifted me with height, and weight. I'm hardly musclebound, but I'm tall and wide, and heavy. The unfortunate side-effect of my abusive upbringing also left me with a lot of... angry reflexes, and I can deadpan rattle off whatever insane free-form threat I can ad-lib. It definitely leveled the playing field. Oddly enough, this doesn't seem to impact my friendships with women, because I'm not turning it into a pissing contest with everyone. It gives me a great out whenever the guys around me are being too "sports and guns."

Were your abusers primarily men? Did your abuse have to do with your perceived masculinity? You do NOT have to answer.

In my experience, women tend to be more emotionally intelligent, more intuitive and responsive to non-verbal cues than our masculine counterparts. I found women to be more receptive to negative emotions. Whether this is due to nature or nurture, I’m not going to assert. There are also some studies showing that animals prefer adult women to men and children.

We are less threatening, both in the pitch of our voices and in the way we move. All this to say, there may be a correlation between your trauma and your affinity towards feminine energy. I know women who prefer guy friends due to bad experiences with other women, or having trouble relating/communicating in a feminine way.

I understand on some level what your therapist may have been getting at - there are some aspects of the male experience that women can not relate to, and thus having masculine friendships can be beneficial for a guy. But I don’t think it’s an absolute necessity. Surround yourself with those who make you feel safe, loved, and heard, first and foremost.

Man honestly I think you should listen to your instinct. I’m a 28 year old guy who has been in the military for 10 years and have had similar (though not exact) feelings and behaviors, and I totally empathize with your intolerance for the stupid who’s the baddest dog game. To me, more posturing equals more insecurity and it drives me insane.

As someone who wants to be a therapist when I’m done in this career, I find it questionable that the therapist is using that language and would consider maybe finding someone else (not all therapists actually care deeply for their people I’ve found in my experience).

As a follow up to my “go with your instincts comment”, I believe that as you do that, the right people will enter your life and you will know who to put energy into and who not to, whether they are male or female.

*this is advice that comes from my own experience, not just me speculating

I feel the same way. 31 year old man with an amazing wife. Just don't feel safe around men, and I absolutely hate machismo.

I am a man that is terrified of other men, like even being around men at like the grocery store is enough to cause a full on panic attack. I’ve never had any interest or want to be ‘one of the guys’, I’ve always felt uncomfortable around men. When you add on all of my trauma, which is extensive and pretty extreme, all of it perpetrated by men, it’s become a huge trigger for me.

I think it's one of the biggest tragedies that as men we exist in this place where we get a lot of invalidation from those of us who are most similar to us, and who, if they sat down and thought about it, experience these exact same things they invalidate us for.

I can feel the residue of it on me. I find it hard to empathise with men who do have something to them from an external locus of control. I find it hard to accept my own being a victim, and I find it hard to accept in other men.

But that's my damage. Somewhere along the line I was twisted into not empathising with myself and empathised with others.

Like so many men at around the age of 10 I wasn't allowed to have these feelings of pain and upset and fear. I was supposed to be competent. I was supposed to turn feelings into actions because there was just no where for the feelings to be received. And that forms a rift between my vulnerable children/exiles and me in the present. One that manifests in similarly trying to convert mens feelings into effective action.

This is absolutely my failing to accept feelings and empathise with feelings in others. You do not have too many feelings. You have the right amount of feelings. I dare say the men you feel uncomfortable around would have to sift through and peel back the layers that they've had to live under, and the relationships that enforced those to their detriment.

And as far as minds a memories go we try and hold onto things that we've had to for so long it's far easier for these men to be adversarial to your feelings than approach the idea that they themselves have been a round block hammered into a square hole too.

It's not right, it's not fair. But it's absolutely not your fault you feel this way. We need more men that can in fact feel with you. But I first hand know the headwinds and resistance and dare I say hostility I receive for trying to do that.

I’m the same way and the few guy friends I have are more sensitive types so we actually discuss our feelings and all. But generally I’m pretty spooked by men for reasons you mention and my abuser was a man. I don’t like manly odors or anything it gets under my skin.

I like the softness of a dialog with a women a lot more. I’m married so my wife wouldn’t be to big on me having a bunch of female friends but I do have a couple.

I got a female therapist as well I just think I’d have a hard time opening up to a guy. And I prolly wouldn’t wanna hear advice like yours told you etc.

Your therapist has some clown takes. I think this is perfectly valid, and if it’s not impacting your life negatively (this seems to be the case from what you’ve shared), I wouldn’t think this is unhealthy.

Not alone, sir. 44m here and I’m on a completely different wavelength when I’m around other men. I gave up trying to be one of the guys not too long ago.

I, too, am more at ease around women. It’s never sexual for me either. Also, I’ve never questioned my sexuality, but I can’t get it up unless I have a strong emotional connection with someone (thankfully I’m happily married to a lovely woman).

I chalk it up to being raised my a cold, distant, and angry step father who I don’t feel comfortable around to this day.

Holy crap. I am exactly like this, AND I also live in Wyoming. Most of my coworkers are guys. I am convinced that they have no depth beyond hunting, fishing, fighting fire, and shed hunting. The few guy friends I do have are huge nerds like me and can talk about geology, paleontology, archaeology (we're all archaeologists), music, etc. without it feeling like someone needs to win or be the best at whatever.

I have learned that I don't do well with male therapists and always request a woman. For some reason, it is easier for me to open up and be vulnerable around them. With guys, there is always this weird vibe where if I am too vulnerable, I am just whining. It sounds to me like your therapist is suggesting that you reshape yourself to fit into a societal concept of what it is to be a "man" in the West. That is such a Western thing to say. Don't forget that Wyoming has the highest suicide rate in the country.

The most frustrating paradox of being more comfortable around women, for me, is that I find it extremely difficult to connect with women on a romantic level. It frustrates the shit out of me. Living in the middle of nowhere Wyoming probably doesn't help.

Hello! Fellow man (24 years old) here. Majority of my trauma comes from men and I can say that, for the most part, men terrify me. However, I can also say that I have a deep need for connections specifically with men (I myself am bisexual, so it extends beyond the platonic).

It’s hard because there’s only two men in my life that I trust. And they’re both in therapy, so the way they navigate their emotions, triggers, and specifically their anger is very, very different. So for me it’s hard to put myself out there and really connect with men.

This being said, I think your therapist is a bit out of line. Should we live our entire lives avoiding men or being in fear of them? I don’t believe so. But I can’t blame the women (and men) who do, considering their trauma and lived experiences.

A subreddit that has helped me tremendously in connecting with other men is r/menslib (right now they’re private for the holidays I think). It’s a feminist space for men to discuss men’s issues. Maybe you can start small - if you’d like! - by just reading a few posts on male-centered subreddits or connecting with men online.

Regardless, you need to do what’s best for yourself, your safety, and your mental health. Even if that means being a bit cautious around men who don’t make you feel comfortable or safe.

People have given some really thoughtful answers here so I'll just leave this...honestly your therapist's advice is kind of alarming? I don't know if I'm misinterpreting it but "Iron sharpens iron" reads like a pretty toxic masculinity stance IMO. Why must you be "sharpened" in the first place?

"Iron sharpens iron" sounds like that toxic masculinity shit. You're a human not a sword.

Absolutely everything I know about masculinity says it's not something that's catching, contagious, rubs off on ya. There's "monkey see, monkey do" which is our primitive learning system, but it's kinda weird for a therapist to encourage you to use that to determine how you want to be as an individual person. "Just go copy other people and be an identical man with the other men who are all the same!" is gross advice, like you're supposed to decide how often you bathe and which scents you like by just blindly copying other men.

Frankly, that modern extra serious masculinity reads like a bunch of scared sheep. It's like middle school boys at their first school dance, standing in a cluster and telling each other that girls are all mean and have cooties anyway so they don't have to bravely face their fears and go ask one to dance. It's weird and not remotely manly, buncha tiny roosters crowing that they're six foot giants.

Ya know what, you do what makes you happy and don't worry about how it presents to the world. The people around you apparently love you, so you're lovable just the way you are and not in need of being shoved in a mold to better fit your therapist's narrow view of man.

All the guys I've known who I'd most want to have my back in a fight were the ones who wore their hair in "girly" ways. Beautiful long curls, pigtails, thick healthy hair halfway to the ground, and didn't give a damn what anybody thought of it. The guys I knew who liked long hair but let life bully them into keeping it cut short or heavily neglecting it into ruin, life eventually beat them down flat.

Just focus on being a well rounded person and you're fine. It's good to have lots of skills and knowledge that enrich your experience of life and come in useful to help people you care about. Really doesn't matter if those skills are hunting or cooking, trapping or sewing, martial arts or history or both. All skills are needed and sometimes gals do the hunting, my stepmom could go shoot a deer and butcher it in the garage without any help.

I love Wyoming, but last time I lived there I was a little "tomboy" riding bikes with another "tomboy" and her brother so I probably wasn't even slightly catching the culture at the time. But I do remember it was the one place where my dad found a group of guys to play cards with, and the one night I went along to watch they actually did seem to all enjoy his company and him theirs. Bit of a language barrier though, the guys were all from Mexico and dad only had a smattering of Spanish, but the shared laughter was honest and happy.

I think you need to find another therapist. He had no business shaming you , when you're sharing about where your values are and that you're finding it difficult connecting with healthy male role models. Please look for another therapist.

You might be a creative..Highly sensible person. If your an introvert ( I am myself) it can be tricky in society where the expectation is to be loud and more agressive to assert dominance or whatever. But these frameworks don't work anymore, but are still there.

The culture around "being a man" is kinda messed up in a way. The same weird expectations about what women are expected to be. It puts limits on what people feel they can be, do , or speak on, which is unfair. I don't there anything wrong with you. You just haven't found your tribe yet, which is why you might find it difficult making friends with guys. You might not find your style/ interests goes well in the community your in bc the parameters are so narrow there. There's a guy, who makes videos on his nature walks. He is a guy but also kinda goofy and loves nature. He expresses himself with authenticity which is why his page has taken off; He also goes snowboarding alot.. He's a dude doing his thing and he's hilarious! https://www.instagram.com/reel/CVDQiKVlzHg/?igsh=MWpkZHZycnd0czRsMg==

If you like books, I can send it some links.Cheers!

I'm not supposed to say that I'm unaccustomed to dealing with men because of my upbringing, seems to get me downvoted a lot. Self-hatred is the only acceptable response /s

What can you do when your experiences are so... integral? It is not like society gives you much opportunity to escape it.

"Iron sharpens iron," sounds dumb. Therapists are dummies. Being around random people for the sake of being around them based on checked-off demographical boxes isn't going to sharpen anything other than trauma responses. I also love that they have to ask you if you're straight... what a fucking maroon. It's such an intrusive, idiotic question. People like that aren't any different than some other people who view gender through an excessively narrow window meant to assauge their own feelings.

As a guy who feels the exact same- my absolute closest and best friends are women and I am way more comfortable around them- (excluding the couple sensitive, sweet guy friends I do have) I would drop my therapist immediately if he said something like "iron sharpens iron" to me and asked me why I didn't have more male friends. Yikes. You need a therapist who understands you.

Nope. It's not unhealthy at all. I used to think this about myself, but realized I just like emotionally intelligent, safe people.

I moved in with this random huge dude with tatoos who went to church every Sunday. I initially expected him to be super standoffish and judgemental. He ended up being really sensitive and thoughtful and a positive influence in my life. I was really glad to have met him.

One time I moved in with a girl who I expected would be emotionally safe and intelligent but she was super stuck up and judgemental. She was awful to live with.

You can find cool people of any gender, but if you've had bad experiences with a stereotypical male, it can make you very uncomfortable around guys.

Almost as if I wrote this wtf

Hello,

I'm an almost 27 y.o. man. I grew up as the middle of 3 brothers. I was bullies, beaten, shamed, and terrorised since age 4 until I grew large enough to be the scary one in turn.

I hated being the scary one. It's just looks, you know, I'm a huge man with huge eyebrows (and now also a huge beard) and I used to never smile. I've never done anything to people, yet children would run away and hide, and adults gave me looks saying they'd like to as well.

I haven't actually held a conversation with anyone from age 11 to age 18. Then, I could only handle one person at a time. And only girls/women my age.

I hated masculinity. I felt like any random burst of anger could result in me killing someone. I hated humanity, as a whole. I hated the drama, the gossip, the bullying, the plotting, all of it. Men/boys were seemingly bullying each other as a form of socialisation, and I didn't want anything to do with it.

I started opening up when I hit 18, first to girls. I had an invitation somewhere (I hated invitations) and I decided to use it for all it was worth and just act comfortable. As a result, most of them decided I was arrogant and self-centered (I might've been), but one of them decided to keep in touch.

I started meeting friends of friends, only keeping to people I could be introduced by the people I knew. Inevitably, I met a social butterfly who introduced me to dozens of people and the dam broke.

That's when I first started talking to men. Only "Hello" at first. "How are you?" and "I'm fine" went after. I decided there are two kinds of men: those uncomfortable with themselves, and arrogant prats.

Ironically, it was my currect wife who taught me play-taunting. I don't know the name for it, there probably isn't one. It's when you talk like you're fighting for dominance, but it's a game during which you learn to defend against strangers who'd do it to you, but in a friendly setting. Kind of like lion cubs play-hunting.

I still think men/boys go about it the wrong way. I believe relationships are built by opening up, vulnerability, honesty, and common goals. You need that initial base of trust before you can taunt each other without hurt feelings. School boys especially do it completely wrong.

I was 20 when I first understood my older brother didn't actually try to insult me every time he opened his mouth. He thought he could play-taunt with me. Also, he hid his insecurities behind it. I'm 27 and I'm only just now succeeding at that base trust with him.

I still don't have many guy friends. I have like... 2. I barely managed to find a best man for my wedding. BUT I am capable of talking to guys. Gender stopped making a difference. Part of it is just people grew up. Part of it is that I feel more secure with myself.

--‐----------‐-----------------------

It took me literally years to go from where you are to where I'm now.

My opinion? Gender makes no difference. You should be able to talk to anyone and feel comfortable with yourself. I don't think you should subject yourself to "iron sharpening iron". You would benefit from having a guy friend, because it would improve your view of the world (because now you think half of humanity is unsuitable for interaction). Who you interact with is your choice, but you should have the option.

My advice? Make and effort to find men you're comfortable around. Men who don't pose. Men who don't try to play-taunt you like and old friend the first time they see you. Men who feel secure about themselves, who don't hide behind "masculinity". You would benefit from that, from an example of a healthy, grown-up, secure man. Definitely not from trying to harden yourself by allowing people to emotionally attack you.

(Coming from the perspective of a femme-presenting nonbinary person) Your therapist sounds so full of shit to me. "iron sharpens iron" ok buddy thats some "divine masculine" "divine feminine" sounding shit to me. Maybe my gender identity makes this a little incompatible with me, I consider myself both a woman and a man, and I prefer womens' social groups so much over mens' for a lot of the reasons you cited. I find myself friends with men incredibly often if its just a 1:1 friendship though. I've been pretty fucked up by how I've been treated in groups of "the guys." and simply refuse to lower my standards of how I deserve to be treated anymore just to feel like "one of the guys."

Sounds like you just have preferences with socialization types. I don't believe there's some inherent quality in men that is going to magically improve you as a human, and honestly you probably shouldn't lower your standards for the sake of having men in your life, that has been a massive mistake in my own past experience. Your therapist seems a little entrenched in his binary ideas of gender, like those people who think a kid needs a male and female parent to be complete or whole.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" is one of the Proverbs taken from the Bible and your therapist seems to have deliberately distorted it. In this context "man" means person, it does not mean "male". The Proverb is literally saying "to learn more and keep yourself sharp, be around others". There is no godly or therapeutic mandate that says you MUST be around men primarily

If I may ask... you say your guard is always up around men, you've aimed to look stereotypically manly, picked a manly job, etc.

So when you say you've never met another man like you... how would you know?

Do you yourself present like "a man like you"? It seems like you're trying to make sure men don't perceive you accurately, so maybe there are more men like you than you think, but they're doing the exact same thing? Maybe you've met quite a few.

I say all this as a man who feels like masculinity is a concept devoid of any specific meaning. Like I see toxic masculinity, and that's all awful, and yet when I see something labelled as healthy masculinity, I have no fucking clue why that isn't just healthy humanity - why there's a gender divide for that standard like at all.

I also would've found your therapist's advice hard to take seriously. That's a saying that doesn't mean anything, and who gives a shit what he finds "strange" or not? How fucking vague and boring can you get lol? Strange is a compliment in my book.

I do get on worse with men though. It's certainly way less socially invigorating. I've never really like trying to find a place in amongst men. That does always feel like an act, and it hasn't been one I've bothered with for years. Giving that up has been great. I've no interest in trying to fit into a role like that. Pretending to be someone you're just not does often result in depression and anxiety and low self-esteem. I think at the very least you'd benefit from being more yourself around men.

That quote sounds concerning in this context. Maybe he’s a good therapist, but I just want to throw it out there that not all therapists are worth sticking with. Might keep an eye out and explore elsewhere if needed.

Is exposure to what we don't like necessary for growth? Or is it ok to stay with what makes you feel safe? I tend to vote for the latter. I just get triggered and it doesn't help.

I know men who are like this despite not having PTSD of any kind. They just don't like the whole competition and aggression thing. I've seen random strange men freak out at my male friends despite not having done much of anything to cause it.

Everyone has the power to protect their peace. Everyone wants to feel comfortable. You have figured out something that feels good to you. Congratulations! Don’t let anybody take that away from you. You aren’t living for them, but for YOU. Trust yourself. Your opinion about you is the only one that matters. Be you.

I think it comes down to whether you want male connections in your life. I can relate to you as males in my life were emotionally distant, loud, angry, and mean. I grew up being intimated by men until I started going to therapy few years ago. In therapy, I came to a realization that I desperately wanted to have my group of boys. I kept trying to convince myself that I hated being around other men because being angry/judgmental was easier emotion for me to handle than the anxiety of being potentially rejected and hurt by them if I make an effort.

I told this to my therapist and a way to overcome this was through exposure. I needed to gradually put myself out there and started finding other guys to connect with. So I did just that. It started as extremely simple as saying "Hi" to a male security guard in my office building, to opening up about my hobbies to colleagues, reaching out to old acquaintances, and joining a hobby group. (I joined Jiu Jitsu gym and I plan on taking acting/filmmaking classes soon). It was slow triggering three years but I did eventually built connection with other men.

I had few rules to start filtering out who to let into my circle. For example, if you ever insult people to get attention, mock my hobbies/preferences, take everything as a competition where you need to dominate, only text when you need a favor, dismiss any feelings, and take everything as a joke, you're not getting into my inner circle and everything will be surface level. With that filter, I don't have any of those 'toxic masculinity' men in my life. I have three guys in my inner circle, and all of them can articulate emotions, show support, and empathetic while being fun to be around.

I'm not sure if it's unhealthy or healthy to be only prefer to be around women as that's personal choice. All I can say is joy you get from companionship/camaraderie from other men is great and worth the effort as they will be able to fully share your male experiences. If only around women is not having any negative impact in your life, then all good.

As a woman, and as someone with CPTSD, I totally understand and sympathise. You will get no negativity from me.

Try hanging around with the LGBTQ crowd. Wear a rainbow pin and show up as an ally. You will find that we are the polar opposite of the toxic masculinity/patriarchy crowd.

Eeeeh I'm "male". Non-binary. I can count on two fingers the number of cis, heterosexual men friends without really fucked up worldviews I've had in my life that I can have more than surface-level conversations with and I've also largely worked in a field with a lot of grab-assing machismo bullshit. I'm sad that I only met those two when I was 29. Also grew up in a state where the ideal man is in workboots/cowboy boots, drives a toddler-smasher truck, and bitches about his wife.

Your therapist sounds pretty Wyoming, by which I mean "a shitty therapist". "Iron sharpens iron" sounds like weird twitter manosphere bullshit. I know your therapist options in the least populous state are pretty limited, but might be worth therapist shopping again. I'd say worry less about keeping an even balance in a spreadsheet of the genders of the people you can relate to and focus more on continuing to only let people into your life that are decent and care about your thoughts, feelings, and experiences. If that's largely women, so be it.

On the other end of the coin though. I'm bi and I *am* physically attracted to some men but they better not forget their socks at my house.

Iiiiiif you're looking for more decent men in your life, you might find them volunteering at some cause you care about. Secular food banks and a (preface that I am abso-fucking-lutely not trying to proselytize) Unitarian church put me in contact with some Boomer men with relatively good heads on their shoulders. YMMV

Nope. My very straight husband is the same way.

I feel the same way in being more comfortable around women, also just with the way society is, it’s easier for men to be affectionate and receive affection from women than men.

But I might say that I agree with your therapist in that hanging out with more men might be beneficial, maybe a men’s support group? That should hopefully eliminate the toxicity, while also showing you that men like yourself have issues and their own struggles.

I also feel that although I find it easier to hang with women, I talk about different things when I’m with men and our interests are often more aligned.

Like when I lived with a woman as a roommate we got along well, but we never stayed up till 1 talking about aliens, ufos, and cryptids like I do now that I live in apt with men.

So I’m learning that hanging out with men can actually be fun if you find ones that aren’t toxic.

Also video game analogy, I think hanging out with men and women fills different “status bars” in terms of social needs.

Yes, it is unhealthy, however, not unusual. I went through a period where I couldn't stand women (I'm a woman, btw) and preferred to be around men.

As I continued on in my healing, I have learned that for me my "problem" with women wasn't a problem with women, but with myself. Once I started to get more and more comfortable with myself and also my Self, I started to find I can be comfortable with any gender.

However, now in my mid 50s I've been looking to make more female friends and reconnecting with one of my female cousins. I have actually been actively seeking out women for the last decade, so much so I was in roller derby for 6 years. 😂

Maybe talk to your therapist about taking time to examine areas of your past where men were a major factor and what, if anything, was surrounding that. Sometimes our bodies tense to high alert when we're around the gender that has significantly harmed us in some way, for you it's men, for me it was women.

Your therapist sounds a little weird. Anyway an it harm none, do what thou wilt. So long as you feel you yourself are not being affected negatively, simply live as you wish!

“Iron sharpens iron” was cringe for me when I heard it tossed around at jiujitsu. But from a therapist, it would be grounds for termination.

35/M. Most of my friends have been women for a long while. I was fortunate to have a very compassionate, loving male therapist throughout my twenties, so I know men can wonderful (And women can be terrible, too). But most of my trauma came at the hands of my father, and a lot of it is tied up in my received notions of masculinity, so men have had to take a back seat in my life for a while.

As you heal, you may find yourself desiring to connect with men. I have. But that happens on your own time, and has to be an earnest desire on your part. And you have to be able to somewhat discern which men are healthy for you and which are not, in part by refusing to gaslight yourself into thinking you should put up with BS behavior. Having a healthy male model helps with that immensely, since you have a standard for comparison. Sadly, it sounds as your therapist is no such man.

Fortunately, this is a wonderful, healing opportunity to establish more self-trust with yourself. If you don’t like this guy, you can walk— not because you’re too sensitive, but because you hold your intimate relationships to the highest standard. That in and of itself may contribute in some small (or large) way to improving your relationships with men in the long run— when you continually demonstrate to yourself you have agency, that you don’t have to tolerate men you don’t like, it might diffuse some of the anxiety you feel around them.

If you decide to leave, you don’t owe him an explanation. If it’s important for you to say something to him, then power to you. But you don’t need anyone’s permission to do what feels right for you.

Not telling you what to do, btw. Just my two cents. Whatever choice you make, I’d respect it, brother. Glad you’re here and doing the hard work.

I have always felt the same about men. Turns out I’m transgender.

Its not unhealthy. I don't know if I'd even consider that strange as I know plenty of straight, un traumatized men who have mostly female friends. Sometimes trauma affects us in ways that are not harmful but are a bit peculiar.

Nothing unhealthy about having preferences. Now if you go out of your way to avoid men we could talk about it being an issue, although a minor one unless it went to the extremes.

I also prefer women and seem to fit in with them better than men. Most all my online friends are women simply because my interests have steered me into spaces dominated by them.

Granted having played games my whole life I have also been in some extremely male dominated spaces as well but not picked up many long time friends there or really enjoyed the more toxic environment.

As for trauma I got plenty from both genders though I'd guess the worst was from my mother. Maybe trying to fill some void there but I think it is mostly just that women generally are much more emotionally mature. Struggle to be comfortable around any people but have noticed I much prefer it when they are in a stable relationship/having no interest in me.

Also sounds like you should look into getting a new therapist as that sounds like some wild takes.

I've had the opposite experience, as a man who doesn't identify with traditionally masculine. The men in my life accept me for who I am, where the women are the ones who try to enforce the traditionally masculine roles and feel like there is something wrong with me.

I struggle with the exact opposite: finding emotionally intelligent women whom I can be safe with. It probably has something to do with how we see a specific gender and how we, ourselves, connect with them. There is something here. This is defiantly something we both should work on.

I think you need a new therapist, my guy; dude doesn’t seem to acknowledge your pain and is more interested in spouting nonsensical platitudes

I’m the same way. Just a couple days ago I realized when looking for a new therapist I was only looking at women. And I’ve always had girl friends. My best guess is that my relationship with my dad was so shallow and toxic that I’ve generalized that into thinking all men are shallow and toxic. I have a couple guy friends, but the reality is that relationships are extremely shallow. We play games and talk about the need but that’s about it. There’s something deeper that’s missing, and I’ve never found it with guys. Maybe it’s not healthy, idk, but it’s not that big a deal so I’m not too worried about it right now. And if you’re happy with your existing relationships, that’s all that matters. Who cares if it’s a “little strange”. And frankly your guy is an idiot, everyone is a little strange, therapy isn’t about getting rid of the strange parts of you, it about changing the things that hurt you. So if that lack of male connection doesnt bother you, I’d say carry on

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have never heard a man’s view in that way before.

I do agree with the other comment or who mentioned that females tend to be more nurturing than males - or, at least, that has been the gender norm for… ever? Perhaps you need or want or enjoy that more nurturing side that women tend to have or show in the presence of mixed company, their children, or men.

However, I have also seen the cat fights and jealousy between females, which seems to be the equal to the masculinity, tough guy, who’s the strongest, biggest, toughest, and so on. It can make the work place a horrid place to be, especially if you a female with a female boss who feels threatened by or jealous of their female subordinate employee.

I do not think there is anything wrong with you feeling more comfortable with, and therefore preferring the company of women - especially if you spend your days and much of your social outings in the company of “manly men” who cannot offer or share on the same emotional comforting or nourishing level that you find women cannot have been able to do with you.

For all you know, though, half or more of the tree guys you work with feel the same way you do, but do not feel free to voice those feelings or act upon those feelings. You may be missing out on some very close friendships with other men who are capable of an emotional connection, in addition to having the “manly” image.

My abusers were both male and female, so I simply do not relax and feel comfortable around anyone of any gender who does not first show me that they are capable of being kind, civil, caring, and considerate, and are capable of reciprocating nurturing, nourishment, and meaningful connection beyond the attraction/sex impulse. Every time I have tried to be more “open” to trusting and connecting with others, I’ve gotten horribly “burned”. I hope you are able to be more open to what you feel you want or need to be open to/with, without any serious harm occurring. 🙏🏻🦋

I am the same way. I feel like I can finally relax around women and it's a good thing.

As a guy I find most men to be an obstacle course to talk to through their ego. Women I find are much more relaxing. I personally don’t do female “friends”. They’re either someone I date or someone i talked to briefly.

For me learning martial arts and working as a bouncer for years was a game changer in life. If someone doesn’t like me, I can likely defend myself physically and win. Because of this, my self value does not come from external factors and this realization works in subconscious ways in communication both verbal and non verbal. This is a masculine thing, like the saying goes a good cop never fired a single bullet and the same goes for a martial artist that never has to use violence.

Hey :) I can only tell you my experience although it's the opposite from yours. I grew up with ONLY sister, no brothers or male cousins. On top of that I went to a all girls school... soooo do I have female friends? No. I don't know why but I've never been able to connect with women I've tried to befriend. No matter how hard I try it seems like they don't like me, or talk baldy about me behind my back. My therapist says it's bc I might not have much in common with "most women", I don't wear make up, my hair always looks the same, I've never attempted to walk in high heels, I don't go to the salon to do my nails ... just like you said: you don't seem to fit the typical gender role and that's the reason you're not able to find true connections with other men. To your question: if it's unhealthy. Overall I would say no. I am pretty sure there are people within our genders that feel the same however these people are not often "seen" bc of society being a bully. For instance I would be called a pick me girl or whatever bc I don't do stuff others girls do, you would be called gay (no offense obviously it's just an example) bc you don't do "manly" stuff. So basically people like us get shunned from society and are labeled certain names, so therefore it's hard to find like minded people.

Hope that helps to ease your mind :)

There is no 'ideal' [gender], there is only what you yourself value and what you think is important. Ignore the opinions of those who seek to have you judge yourself based on a playbook that isn't your own.

You are comfortable around women because the men you know try to engage with you in the engagement techniques that they are used to doing with other men. Women have different engagement techniques, so them not doing that is providing a safe space for you.

There are plenty of men who don't take the machoism that seriously. There are groups of men who may make jokes about it (roasting fellow men about things is a common thing, though it is oftentimes rooted in no intentional hard feelings, it's generally meant to elicit a humorous response which validates their purpose in saying whatever they said, and can make both people feel 'part' of the group. Of course, when someone's perception of things/values are too different, this doesn't happen.

There are also groups of men who do stuff like that for showmanship/bragging etc. based on what they take pride in.

There are also groups of men who don't care about that kind of thing at all.

Often younger men (seeking more the bragging/points/validation) can exhibit this behavior, though of course learned behavior can persist through life if they don't see things that challenge that viewpoint.

I think it is fair to say that there is definitely a non-trivial amount of men that are like how you described. A plurality or majority even.

The challenge becomes finding the groups of people that share interests/values (which is often the solution to many different kinds of problems across the world, whether this or dating or otherwise).

You are stubborn because of what you have been through, knowing what works for you and what doesn't, how your mind behaves and what you value. Trust it (as long as your mind is open in general).

Men disgust me. Most are emotionally constipated and are only good at making other people feel bad

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I get what you're saying, much of guy culture is just fucked, but it's getting better.

I have no interest in hanging out with dipshits who mentally never left highschool either.

But I've found plenty dudes who know masculinity is a hoax, who are kind, genuine people in their own right.

You tend to find them around cites of culture, art, science and left-wing politics. I've got a place nearby that organizes art installations, jazz jam nights and cheap vegan dinners. Those kind of places often have little communities of regulars that would probably be my first port of call for finding decent men someplace new.

I have found male only spaces to be so essential to my healing. There I found empathy and understanding that I could not get anywhere else.

However I don't think favouring one gender over the other and putting them on a pedestal is healthy. Calling all women "higher quality creatures" is very naive and kind of gross. Its know as the Madonna/ whore complex.

Our whole culture is toxic and that includes the overly macho man bs and the modern toxic feminism. Really anyone who is sexist one way or the other I find I just can't be around because of my past trauma

I relate to seeing the “alpha” behavior, the woman thing is just coincidental that you get along with them three specifically. Iron sharpens iron is a recovery and mindset practice which can be useful. It’s about wether you’re able to really be truthful about your life with a couple people and change by having a strong circle to confide in and work shit out with. I know my truth, I’m a sensitive man, I’m super intellectual and overthink everything but most people men and women I can’t talk to about anything. You can already see how childhood pushed you to test yourself with tree work. I did the same shit and built a fake crazy tough guy image. It sucks we do these things but you seem ok. It’s something about the challenging of self and our comfort zone. Can we be more flexible and then we’d grow? Do we have to? Maybe some people just can’t accept the sensitive people and introspection, we make them uncomfortable?

I think his "iron sharpens iron" mindset kind of sums up why you don't feel comfortable around men lol. It sounds like a "who cares if you're uncomfortable, who cares how it feels inside of your body, this makes you different and we shame differences, so stop being weird and just pull yourself up by your bootstraps already!"

I'm a woman and there's not too many men I feel comfortable around. I realized over the past few years that my circle is almost entirely female, other than 2 relatives that I keep at arms length cause they are not as emotionally safe as I need them to be, and a bunch of men I talk to online cause I desperately want a romantic relationship and want to believe I can find a good man amongst the heap of garbage.

I think you should trust your instincts. Be around people that feel safe to your nervous system. Limit your time with people that don't feel good. Stay open to the idea of finding some good male friends/role models. You may be missing some things that you can only get from a relationship with another man. Look for positive male role models doing podcasts and such. If you don't feel good about the men in your family you had to look up to, they could fill that role for you.

Woman here. I generally prefer being around men. I just vibe better with them. Having a preference is not wrong and if that’s how you’re happiest, then don’t sweat it. You know yourself best. Therapists can only guide, they don’t know for sure.

Father abuse and bullying here. I'm married and always feel uncomfortable around men so I tend to get along with women better.

All of the guy talk and objectification is just uncomfortable when around men.

At least you are social, able to make friends and have stable relationships!

idk from shit but I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with this.

I kinda get along better with males than females and I’m a woman. I have been treated very badly by girls/women throughout my life.

I think it's pretty typical for someone who was abused by males to feel uncomfortable around them. That you feel comfortable around women just means you see them as equals. There's nothing wrong with that.

Yeah just sounds like a preference thing. I will say that there are guys who aren't like you described but I am not sure how easy they are to find but I found some good guy friends that aren't like that. I would not get along with guys who are the type of masculine where everything is a contest as they usually are super annoying. I do know plenty of masculine guys who are pretty secure with themselves and don't do that dumb stuff though but I don't have similar interests so not really friends with them. Anyways it is your life so live it how you want to and unless being friends with only women is causing problems I don't see any issue here.

No, but it is something you should face and work on improving with time. You deserve to experience the best of both worlds and not forever have your abusers play or have some power over your life and decision making.

Can men like you gather all in one place so people like me can find guys to be friends with and/or see if any of y’all who aren’t attached like any of us who are not attached and vice versa?

Sounds like your therapist is an idiot who wants to prop up archaic gender stereotypes. I've always found both extreme masculine and extreme feminine cultures to be massively toxic, and so I gravitate towards more gender neutral, nonbinary, and agender people. For various complex cultural reasons, that seems to be more common among AFAB people, so most of my friends are not AMAB. Unless there's a sexual aspect to the relationship, I really can't see the point of worrying what bits your friends have, but if you really want to "give guys more of a chance," I'd suggest dipping your toes into subcultures that don't so heavily promote extreme gender identities.

I’m a man abused by men and I don’t find it weird in the slightest. I also do feel better around women, and my therapist says it’s natural to have aversion to the gender and even race when endured abuse. Im not usually around women though because of my profession and also to make things more complicated I’m also gay, so… but yeah. I have a female therapist and I always choose female doctors when it’s possible. I have a hard time trusting anyone, but naturally it comes easier with women as I haven’t been abused by them.

⚠️ TW: I think it’s not necessarily a sign of wellbeing (a.k.a. think it is generally a sign of being unhealthy, but it also is dependent upon where you’re at in your healing journey [which I am not covering here because I have a feeling such is likely covered in many of the comments already; so, I am choosing to focus on why I deductively think it is not a good sign of mental wellbeing]). ⚠️

•••••••••••••••••

I don’t think women inherently can understand men as deeply as men can understand each other (just as the same for women).

So, if you are wanting to more deeply heal past wounds that is leading to your preference, I suggest (if not already) at least having one male close friend who you can open up to one another with.

Having a male in your life as such will also make your relationships with women better because we already have within culture a developed “norm” of being emotionally “there” for each other; meaning, we are processing feelings and providing support more regularly which men have also traditionally demanded on us in inappropriate places such as the workplace.

So, yes, by having at least one close male friend who is willing and trusting to discuss feelings with, this will ensure that you have deeper validation that you need as a man and prevent you from feeling invalidate in a relationship by way of inadvertently seeking this type of deeper validation from a woman (whom can’t fully ever understand because we are women and not men) which can lead to unhealthy relationships between a man and a woman.

[Note: Especially because the majority of women are generationally tired having this type of invisible work being expected of us coming from any direction at all times. Some women don’t recognize or admit it at first, yet it does tend to ultimately come out in some form of resentment in an intimate relationship.]

Abundantly, I think it’s important for everyone to feel validated fully as themselves authentically; and, I think that it is healthy to acknowledging that differences between sexes, genders, etc. means that you may need validation for some elements of yourself from those who relate more to your internally living experience.

Also, I generally believe giving yourself access to a non-limiting perspective on diversity, including cognition/emotional diversity of your same identifier, is very important.

Not sure if this is a “controversial” answer, but ya, I generally believe that limiting yourself away from a specific group of people is not necessarily a sign of wellbeing.

Hope this is helpful; and, my apologies in advance if this triggers anyone.

I'm 50 and I'm the same way. My trauma comes from an alcoholic and absentee father. I spent my time with my mom mostly, who messed me up in other ways. But my oldest brother was abusive physically and I really don't gel well with men. I was in the Navy and felt like a fish out of water the whole time. Do what makes you comfortable. Nobody cares who you hang out with but you. Be yourself and be happy. Don't try to put a square peg in a round hole unnecessarily.

The thing is there’s no secret there’s this baddest dog in the pack competition with men. With women there’s competition, but they don’t have competition with you.

It’s not a bad thing that there’s competition though, it’s natural in a way. While all those dudes are doing their silent competition you’re progressing as a human. You are in therapy, reflecting, thinking about what ways you’re constricting yourself.

But also, there are other men out there like you who ain’t buying this show off macho bullshit. I think you should look for other male artists. If you can, maybe go to an art museum, take some kind of art class, go to a community event where you think you’d meet nicer dudes. Maybe even move to a more inclusive area if you can?

However there might be another dude in your circle who’s sick of the competition too and just not showing it?

Iron sharpens iron is a term from the bible. That is a red flag that you are dealing with christian counselling. They do not care about what is actually good for you, they just want to make you "masculine" and push you towards christian lifestyle. Its coercion towards their beliefs not therapy.