I am NOT OOP, OOP is u/Electrical_Tour3016
Originally posted to r/AITAH
AITAH for getting mad at my wife for having a secret abortion after I told her I didn't want kids?
Editor’s Note: added paragraph breaks for readability
Trigger Warnings:
Original Post: June 18, 2024
I have been happily married to my wife, Clara for around 3 years now. I love this woman to pieces. I don't want to get sentimental but she truly is my other half and I cannot see myself with another woman, even now.
Before we got married, I made my stance on children clear. I didn't want any. She agreed in the moment and I thought that was that. About a year and a half into our marriage, she brings up the question of children again. She asks me if want kids, I say no, I don't. She hums and we go back to doing what we before. It wasn't a conversation so much as it was an odd question this time around but I didn't think anything of it. We had a very robust sex life but always took the necessary precautions. She has the implant and I use a condom around 90% of the time, so I wasn't worried.
Her bookshelf recently broke, so I ordered a new one. I had wanted to build it as a surprise and put her books up on it for when she came home. While going through them, I noticed an old journal of hers. I immediately smiled and flipped through it. When we were in college, she'd carry it around. It was a future planning notebook or sorts. If she wanted something in life, she'd draw out exactly what she envisioned, add clip ins, the whole nine yards. Manifestation, if you will. She had shown me it in college after declaring that she wanted to pursue her doctorate, and I remember being stunned at the attention to detail. I mean, we were only sophomores and she knew exactly what she wanted to do, what she wanted to study, and where she would take herself. It made me feel out of depth. I liked it.
Anyway, I flipped through the journal, reminiscing about the past. I hadn't expected there to be any new entries, at least, not anything recent that I hadn't experienced with her. But as I opened it up, I saw something I never thought I'd see. It was a section dedicated to pregnancy and baby prep. She had researched prenatal vitamins, obgyns in our area, had images of cradles, etc. It was only two pages, but I remember being feeling so sick. In my head, there was only one reason she'd put that in a journal like this. She wanted kids.
Naturally, I was torn up. I kept telling myself I had been up front about what I wanted, and if she hadn't, that was her fault. But the thought that she'd secretly been suffering because of me, that she was holding herself back from the life she wanted to please me- I couldn't stand it. I confronted her about it as soon as we came home and I found out the situation was a lot worse than I thought.
Clara did indeed want kids, but claimed she wanted our relationship more and was okay with compromise. I asked her a million times if she was sure. I really wanted her to be honest and not feel like she had to hold anything back. She insisted that not having children wasn't a deal breaker for her, but I kept pushing. I couldn't understand why she'd put something that wasn't that important to her in that journal. In the midst of our conversation, she dropped the bomb.
She told me she had an abortion a year and a half ago. Offered up the information like I should have been relieved. Like it was the proof she needed to convince me that she meant what she has said about children not being a deal breaker.
I can't describe what I felt in that moment. What I'm still feeling. What I can say is that I have never blown up at my wife the way I did that night. I didn't put my hands on her, I would never put my hands on her, but it was not a pretty exchange. I just remember feeling hurt that she hadn't consulted me on such an important decision. That she went and had such a life altering procedure without discussing it with me. That I didn't even fucking notice that it happened. I mean, those things have side effects, right? She would have been bedridden for days afterwards, in physical and emotional pain. How could I not have seen the signs? I'm still beating myself up about it. I remember her asking me if I want kids, but nothing about her emotional state for the rest of that week when she would have had the procedure done. How much can I really claim to care about her?
I don't want children, I still don't. But I'd rather chew my left arm off than make her have an abortion, even moreso now after she's told me she isn't really against having kids the way I am. I'd happily raise a kid if it meant she didn't need to go through something so drastic.
I've been staying with my sister for the last week and a half. I needed space to think, so I left. I want to see her, to ask if she's okay, but I don't know what to do or say. I'm still unbelievably angry at her and at myself. I don't want to yell at her again. I think the first time around scared her pretty badly and I don't want to repeat that. My sister thinks I'm being petty, punishing my wife for something I would have agreed with regardless. But I wouldn't have fucking agreed. I don't know. AITAH?
Relevant Comments
OOP on not considering of prioritizing his wife’s preferences when she is prioritizing his decisions
OOP: To clarify, I never once said this. If that's how my post came across, let me clear it up. If she came to me as asked to start trying for a kid, in other words, to go off birth control and stop using condoms, my answer would be no. I've always been firm in that. She's never pushed the issue but no amount of begging would entice me to plan to have a child. Having an unplanned child, on the other hand, wasn't something we discussed. Obviously, hindsight is 20/20 but that doesn't help much here.
Update: June 19, 2024
I woke up to lots amount of comments and outright hate so I thought I'd clear a few things up:
A lot of you were concerned about me "snooping" in Clara's journal. I met this woman when I was 6 years old, we had experienced over half of what she had written down in that notebook together. She's been letting me read her entries routinely since college, though I would read them more often back then. Like I said, I found her decisiveness incredibly attractive. But college was 6-7 years ago and times change. I'm not sure if she has other journals, but her use of this specific one died down as we got older, and so did my readership.
I felt no qualms about picking it up and reading it that day because I quite frankly never have. This was not the first time I read that journal without her present as I've been given express permission to do so. It was meant to be a quick trip down memory lane, I had no idea she had added more things, let alone pregnancy planning. She keeps all her old journals, sketchbooks, etc, in the same area and this book was in that pile.
"You should have gotten a vasectomy" I'm not discussing my reasons for not wanting kids here, but I did discuss them thoroughly with Clara before we got married. Our reasons for not wanting children were very similar based on that initial conversation but I guess hers wavered as time went on. How that turned me into an evil dictator that refused to hear her opinions out, I'll never understand, but I guess that's reddit for you. I didn't get a vasectomy because I am not sure that I won't want kids 10-15 years down the line. I am positive I don't want them at the current moment, but I'm 27. Opinions and circumstances change.
Regardless of its reversibility, it's marketed as a permanent surgery. Vasectomies are covered by my health insurance, but reversals are not. It simply made no sense to invest in something I wasn't sure could be undone if I didn't want it anymore, not when Clara and I were taking the necessary precautions to avoid pregnancy otherwise. She got on birth control way before we started having sex, I had absolutely nothing to do with that decision. As far as I know, she's quite happy with it.
The chances of pregnancy with the implant are less than 1%, even less when using condoms as well. We talked about the decision together and ultimately decided a vasectomy wasn't the right choice. Someone actually went as far as to say that because I didn't get my vas deferens cinched, an unexpected pregnancy was inevitable. A 0.5% chance and inevitable are two vastly different things. You guys do realize that vasectomies aren't 100% effective either, right? Unless you're pushing for abstinence, I really don't want to hear it. We also don't go raw unless we both agree to it, which I would never pressure her to do.
"You verbally abused her!" Clara and I both grew up in shitty homes. Our parents yelled and were extremely combative. After growing up in that environment, we agreed to avoid that kind of behavior in our relationship and we do our best to keep to that. I have never raised my voice at her before this argument. I'm more on the timid side, so I imagine it was a shock for her to see me so angry. She also just doesn't do well with yelling in general. It wasn't my words, so much as it was my tone. Should I have raised my voice? No, but I'm not an infallible robot.
My comment about not putting my hands on her was to draw conclusions away from physical violence. Clearly it wasn't taken that way and had the opposite effect. The exchange was heated on both sides, lots of things were said. It was the worst disagreement we have ever had, and we have been together for close to a decade, close friends for even longer. That being said, I still think it was on the tamer side of the overall spectrum, relative to other people. That spectrum might be a bit skewed due to my childhood but take that as you will.
"You're a dick for leaving her for a week and a half." To be fully clear, this was a mutually respected decision. I told her I needed space to think, she suggested I take it outside the house. Granted, she wasn't the happiest when she said it but we had just finished a heated argument. We texted the entire time I was at my sister's place. Very dull and mundane conversation, mostly pleasantries, but I didn't just abandon her. We weren't speaking AUDIBLY, but we weren't no contact. I don't know how else to phrase that. Things were just tense and very different from our usual level of interaction. Everything was surface level. We would check to make sure the other ate, showered, whatever else, but that was it. There was no continuation of our discussion while we were apart. We were both taking the time to make sure we were in the right headspace to have a proper conversation, as is common for our relationship. It just took me a bit longer to get there.
"She wouldn't have been bedridden. Abortions aren't that deep." I'll concede to the physical aspect of this. I've often heard them described as a bad period and a lot of the women in my life tend to tap out during their monthlies, which is what I based my assumption on. I accept that it was incorrect. Though I'm not sure if I should, because half of you agreed with my take in the post, condemning me for not noticing, and the other half told me I was overreacting. Again, I guess that's reddit for you. More importantly, I will not agree on the general take on the emotional aspect. At the time, I still did not believe Clara genuinely wanted to have an abortion after hearing her updated stance on having kids. I imagined her feelings would be on par with someone who experienced a miscarriage rather than an abortion because of this. I still do. The only thing that would change my mind at this point is Clara herself.
"You should go to couple's counseling and seek therapy individually." We are both in different types of talk therapy and have been for several years. I'm not sure how helpful couple's therapy would be on top of that, but I'm not opposed to it.
"Asking if you wanted kids was consult enough, she doesn't owe you anything." Reading through the comments, many of you thought this, and we're simply going to have to disagree. As the father of the child, the decision to abort should not have been made without my clear and explicit knowledge that she was pregnant. We weren't separated at the time, nor did I cheat, and contrary to popular belief, I'm not abusive. I deserved to know. I won't apologize for expecting my wife to consult me on family planning decisions. I'd do the same for her 10 times over if roles were reversed. Call it "controlling". I really don't care. Asking if I want kids is a completely different discussion than terminating a pregnancy.
I am on my way home now and will update if the situation changes, likely sometime this week. I'd ask for well wishes but I think it's clear none of you are rooting in my favor. Fucking hell.
Edit: Took out the numbers to prevent text from looking long and blocky.
Final Update : June 22, 2024
Before I get into where Clara and I are now, a lot of you had some misconceptions concerning things like me reading Clara's journal, vasectomies, and other things. I made a separate post addressing those. Read it, don't, whatever:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/UuS7dM5JeU
I came home the morning following my initial post and Clara and I had a very long conversation. We both apologized for letting the previous conversation get out of hand and acting out of character. I also explained why I left in the first place and apologized for raising my voice. She's especially sensitive to that kind of thing so I addressed it first. She forgave me and said as long as we could keep things calm this time around it would be okay. She was more interested in finding out what I was so deep in thought about that I was gone for so long. Again, we do take breaks from conflicts from time to time and revisit them when we're calmer, though this was the first one where I physically removed myself from her proximity.
I told her how I initially felt after reading her journal entry. I hadn't been mad then. Part of me was confused - we had agreed on no kids before getting married after all. The other half was riddled with anxiety. Contrary to what you may all think, I adore Clara. She is quite honestly one of only good things this life has given me. I didn't want to lose her but if she wanted kids badly enough to put them in her journal, I wasn't sure what that would mean for us.
She downplayed the importance of the entry. In her view, not everything she puts into the journal is something she's genuinely hoping for. Some things are just nice to fantasize about and not every fantasy is meant to be reality. I was honest. I told her that her words were hard to believe given how meticulously she had written everything down and planned it out. The last thing I wanted was for her to harbor resentment over what her life could have been. She assured me that wasn't the case but I'm still unsure.
Talking about the abortion itself was hard on both of us. I wanted to know if she was in pain, what signs I had missed. I didn't really press for details on the procedure, but we talked a lot about how she felt afterwards, why she hid it, and how she came to her decision. I just held her in my arms and listened for the most part. It was gut wrenching to say the least.
It turns out that the second time she had asked if I wanted kids occurred a month or two after she had already had the procedure done. She had asked because she was contemplating whether or not to tell me about it. I guess she had ultimately decided not to.
She told me I was actually with her the day she took the pills. I remembered the day because she had been crying and I wasn't sure why. When I asked, she cited cramps so I got her a heating pad and laid down with her. Her periods have always been pretty hard on her so I guess I didn't think much of it. In hindsight, I should have realized something was up because she hasn't had bad cramps in years. Still, I'm glad she didn't go through it completely alone.
Much later that day, I asked her why she didn't come to me when she realized she was pregnant. In her eyes, she was protecting our relationship. She knows our circumstances, my reasons for not wanting kids, my stance on abortion. She didn't want to burden me with having to choose between the two and so she made the choice herself.
As hard as I try, I can't understand or accept her reasoning. Her decision to go through this alone, while meant to shield me, inadvertently communicated that she doesn't trust me to support her or handle the truth. All I understood is that she feels like she can't lean on me when she's in trouble. And if that's the case, I'm not sure why we're married. She's always been independent, but this is the first time I've felt completely blindsided by not being included.
I asked up and down if I had given her a reason to doubt me, to doubt my commitment to her, if she felt I wasn't a reliable partner, etc. She said no but that just makes all this harder to grasp. She said she was afraid saying anything would change how I viewed her/our relationship but I'm having a hard time distinguishing insecurity/anxiety from reasonable doubt.
I asked her if she knew I loved her, how much I care for her, the lengths I would go to make her happy, etc. She laughed a little and reminded me of a line from my wedding vows. We shared private vows before our ceremony and I had said quite a bit. I was a little shocked that she remembered that portion at all, let alone word for word. We transitioned to talking about the promises we made one another, and just times in our relationship where we had complete trust/faith in one another. It helped put us both in better moods and ended the night on a lighter note for both of us.
We're doing okay at the moment. Not quite where we were before, but getting there. Everything's still incredibly raw, (including our eyes, we both broke down 5 minutes into the conversation). Clara is against couples counseling right now, (I'm ambivalent) as we're still working a couple of things out on our own. I'm not sure how helpful a third party asking 'what steps we're willing to take to improve trust and transparency', will really be, but I'm open to anything at this point. We're not leaving one another; issues or not, we both think it's clear that there's still an abundance of love between us, and we don't want to throw that away.
Some of you will be happy to know that Clara and I decided on a new rule for ourselves. Clara was a lot more upset about my leaving than she initially let on. From now on, the distance between the top and bottom floors of our home is all the space either of us are allowed to take it we need to cool our heads. If proximity really does become an issue, the max either of us are allowed to stay outside the house is 48 hours. So no more week long stays at my sister's.
And that's it.
TLDR; We're still together. Idk how to properly summarize this, run it through chatgpt or something, I'm exhausted.