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What are the Advantages of Citizenship Over Permanent Residency?
CitizenshipCitizenship:
No travel facility/RRV/residence requirement to worry about
Australian passport is very strong, unless you are from a very specific list of countries you will probably end up greatly expanding the number of countries you have visa free access to.
Can vote (or "must vote", depending on how you look at it I suppose)
Circumstances in which you can lose Australian citizenship are extremely limited and usually involve terrorism. On the other hand, permanent visas are cancelled every single day.
Can pass citizenship to your children if they are born offshore, children of PR can only get citizenship if they are born onshore
Speaking very broadly, any job that requires a security clearance will require you to be an Australian citizen. This is a particular issue for PR holders working in Canberra, especially people in the IT industry where so much of the available work is connected in some way to government operations.
HECS!
This was me. Family were PR for 16 years till i couldn't get HECS (brother was able to but they changed the rules by the time i went to uni).
The Australian passport carries more weight too. Passport control don't seem to ask to many questions when crossing borders. I guess its unlikely that Australians are going to out stay their trips and work illegally.
I have seen this in the airport. With all the restrictions in place for biohazards, i have seem one lady passing the passport control with two slippers, on which i have seen foreign dirt. They dont even check
Wanting to vote was one of the main reasons why I applied for citizenship. I know my vote alone won't make much of a difference but I just want to make my voice heard and be able to know that I am in the cohort that made the same choices like I did.
Oh yeah also easier to get into APS/VPS jobs which I definitely have done lol
Question: In what scenario would someone loose their permanent residence?
Getting busted for a serious crime is one way. Being overseas for too long is another. There are quite a lot of reasons a visa can be cancelled.
Could you please elaborate on the last point? I'm applying for a Visa 189 in the Aerospace field. I will need security clearance to work in this field, but how will I be able to obtain it since I'll be offered permanent residency for the first four years, only after which I have the option to apply for citizenship?
The Australian government recognizes a strong need for aerospace engineers and has added aerospace engineering under the Visa 189 category. They are inviting qualified aerospace engineers from all around the world. What’s the point if they’re not able to get security clearance?! All of this seems very counter intuitive.
You can get security clearances as a non citizen it is however much harder and may involve the sponsoring agency to put forward a business case in why the clearance is needed. There may also be a limit on how high your clearance can go.
Some top secret documents may have a caveat that they are for Australian eyes only. This is obviously only for the most sensitive of information.
Citizenship is actually permanent, and can never be revoked unless you're convicted of terrorism or some other serious serious offences
"Permanent" residency doesn't last forever, if you've been away from the country for too long you won't be granted a new RRV , making you effectively not a PR
technically as long as you don't apply for another visa you're still a PR, but you cannot come back to Australia as a PR
If you want to come back to Australia you must then apply for a visa , and that visa supersedes your PR visa
The strongest reason people don't want to apply for citizenship is that many countries prohibit dual citizenship, and they don't want to lose the citizenship of their home country as it is an important part of their identity
As a PR you cannot vote, stand in elections, or be elected (even citizens can't get elected if they also have a foreign citizenship)
Just a note on the comment about PR isn't PR. This is actually incorrect but without going too deep into the Migration Act and Regulations
In essence, the Permanent Resident visa i.e. Permanent Visa, is permanent in nature but can be revoked if you commit a serious crime. RRV is a visa that allows you to enter the country i.e. pass immigration clearance.
When you have a PR status, it is granted by law that you can permanently stay in Australia, with or without RRV. RRV is synonymous to key that allows you to open the gate and enters the country. RRV does not grant you a permanent stay in the country.
To OP
Citizenship allows you to vote and participate in higher secuirty-related roles within the government. Some jobs in the country require you to be a citizen, and some even require your parents to be 2nd generation citizens before they are eligible. You cannot, in essence, lose your citizenship as you are also protected by the country in the event of a major disaster/war if you happen to be in an affected area. You can run to Aus embassy for help Or any Commonwealth country embassy (UK, NZ etc ) if there's no Aus embassy locally. Dual citizenship may give you better coverage from that perspective but also gives you a risk that you may lose one or the other depending on where you commit some serious crime. If in event of such situation, only Ministers intervention can revoke your citizenship and send you packing
PR, on the other hand, allows you to be in the country, live and work, and any of your dependents can claim citizenship by descent. You can however lose your PR if you commit serious crime and the decision to revoke your PR status can be done at departmental level (no need Minister's intervention). If you happen to be in a disaster-stricken or war zone, the country does not have obligations to provide assistance.
The point I was making was in relation to not being in Australia
An Australian citizen never loses their citizenship just because they've left Australia for a long period
But a PR not being in Australia for >5 years might have difficulties renewing their RRV
in which case their PR is , in effect, null, since they can't even travel to Australia as a PR
Actually, you don't loose it even if you are outside Australia longer than that of 5 years. Key is "strong relationship with Australia". RRV can still be granted if you can demonstrate the strong relationship.
Shortest RRV is 1 day which allows the PR to return
I have had a client who stayed in HK for 12 years and never stepped foot in Aus, granted a 1-day RRV to return, which he still remains to this day.
anyhow, it's Reddit and I'm just another Redittor ;)
But many people don't have the strong relationship
Like someone who graduated uni here, worked a couple years, got PR, then got a job offer from a different country
No family here, no property here, spent only a few years here etc, it's hard to get your RRV back
The point is if you have citizenship you never have to worry about any of this
Yah, don't disagree with the circumstances but the info above is really refers to facts. Each individual would have to suit their situations to the facts.
For those who don't have property in Australia and get the opportunity to work overseas, better to apply the Australian citizenship first.
How did this Hong Konger in your case prove to an Australian government that he is in a strong relationship with Australia if he is not working and living here? Did he buy a property or invest in an Aussie company? or simply because he is from Hong Kong, which used to be a British colony, rather than mainland China?
I don't want to divert the discussion here. My HK client did have a property in Australia (IP), but he has other strings of relationships that can be used as a justification. He didn't have an investment in any business tho.
RMA's job is to help find that information and apply the circumstances to achieve the client's ultimate goal.
Another note is that the origin of the person doesn't play much role here, so being HK is simply seen as HK, not a British colony or China. I understood why a lot of the preconception could plays into this, but much of those is untrue.
Thank you for your answer
Some jobs in the country require you to be a citizen, and some even require your parents to be 2nd generation citizens before they are eligible.
Super-secret spy stuff I presume?
Most of it is an American issue. America is very precious to who gets to touch their stuff, so Australia plays along. Like an Aussie born in Iran isn't allowed to touch some things from America
actually not really. Each country would have their own information that you don't want other nations to know about it.
Just like each person have things that we don't want anyone else to know. Some would know a little bit more than others like your accountant, and your GP and so on. It's just a sovereign nation doing it's sovereign nation things.
The basics would be from Aus Defence security clearance rating ranging from Baseline to Positive Vetting.
Then there's a difference in the level of information you can be trusted with once you work in those agencies.
It's quite common for people to get Baseline and NV1 for basics operations level and those touching international to be needing Positive Vet 1.
Won't go to deep into it but enough to say the security vetting digs real deep into a person's personal details and secrets.
Citizenship is actually permanent, and can never be revoked unless you're convicted of terrorism or some other serious serious offences
That isn't permanent then really. There are some circumstances in which some people can have citizenship revoked. Which I firmly disagree with, if someone is a citizen then they are our responsibility now and it is our responsibility to deal with them when they do Very Bad Things. I'd rather have a terrorist here getting locked up and monitored than zipping back to some third world country that doesn't have the resources to stop them blowing up a religious institution or a shopping centre or something.
Citizenship = you are australian PR = you are not australian
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19d
Ehh, if you ask some bigots, even that’s not good enough, unless you’re white.
PR can be cancelled at any time, there is a proposal floating around to limit PR's to 10 years
My mum has been a PR for 72 years now. She's never seen any reason to get citizenship, she votes, gets a pension. They gave her grief about a RRV last year when she came back from NZ for a friend's birthday, but her original 1952 handwritten visa had no such stipulation, so they let her through.
Is your mum British? British subjects who settled in Australia prior to some very long ago date that I can't remember have a whole bunch of special rights that no other PR holders have.
Yes, her whole family came over on the 10£ Pom deal, after leaving India following the partition.
Haha, my grandma is exactly the same! Evacuated from India to Australia after WW2 and never left. She's now 95 and we only found out about 5 years ago that she's not an Australian citizen.
I think it was by 1984 that this arrangement ceased, but only for British citizens that arrived after this date. British citizens that came before that can still maintain those rights, my grandmother was one, she arrived around the late 20's.
By 1986 the Australia Act had been implemented which is when we essentially became an independent nation, although this wasn’t strictly related to citizenship.
Interestingly Australian citizenship didn’t really exist until 1948 and we were all British subjects up until that point, we were considered both British subjects and Australian citizens until 1969 when the law was changed again when we became solely Australian citizens. You could argue that someone born before '48 had their citizenship taken off them in a sense, although a lot of people that point would’ve been UK citizens by decent due to the large number of British migrants that colonised Australia anyway.
PRs can't vote
They can if they were on the rolls prior to 1984 when they made it citizens only.
Edit: also had to be British apparently
Some very limited circumstances where they can based on old colonial rules.
'there is a proposal floating around to limit PR's to 10 years'
Is this solid internal information, for sure? How likely could this happen and around when could it possibly happen?
Previous Liberal/Morrison Government but it has some support from both sides
Thank you for your answer.
To be Australian or not to be Australian, that’s the question.
You can vote, you can leave the country without concerns about a resident return visa, could be easier for your children to get citizenship. Unless you’re from a country that doesn’t allow dual citizenship I’m not sure why you wouldn’t
If you have the opportunity to get citizenship don’t wait do it and apply for citizenship as PR can be cancelled for so many reasons. I have seen people living in Australia for 40+ years and getting deported back to their countries for some crimes. They were shocked thinking with PR they can stay in Australia forever but that’s not the case. So better get citizenship if you can.
I thought there was a 10 year limit on criminal deportation liability. As in after 10 years of residency you can not be deported except in extreme cases. I think it's even called the ten year rule.
Some people with an already powerful passport don't care about getting new citizenship.
Some people don't want to renounce their original citizenship if they are required to do so because of their home country law (where dual nationality is not permitted).
I know some people choose to remain permanent resident instead of getting Australian citizenship. They are from countries that don't recognise dual citizenship, and by renouncing their citizenship by birth they lose access and privileges to assets (inheritance, property etc). So if you come from any of these countries, make sure you sort out personal and family assets in your home country before committing to another citizenship.
In simple term, a PR gets the same rights as an Australian citizen but one: voting.
Unfortunately not just voting. I think other than voting another important benefit is HECS and Security Clearance option. I'm still contemplating (because I come from country which doesn't recognise dual citizenship and still have some assets back home) whether or not to apply citizenship so that my kids later on eligible for HECS and I can also apply for more consulting job that require NV2 or TSPV clearance (which only applicable if you're Australian citizen)
Thanks. we differ in the way that I don't see HECS or security clearance as benefits of an Australian citizenship.
HECS is a form of tuition loan, your children will have to pay for it once graduate and gain employment. It reduces the parent's burden from having to pay for their children's higher education. This is also the reason why many banking institutions offer education savings plans for parents, not only in Australia but also in Indonesia.
Certain public service jobs require security clearance, mainly federal government jobs. State governments or councils accept both PR and citizens as well for many roles including consultants and contractors.
U can lose PR(they just wont let you back in) if you leave AU for longer period of time. That's the only thing I can think of.
Oh and as a Citizen you're forced to vote.
Here is the thing. You don't have to register to vote here in Australia. I know a few citizens by birth that never got in any trouble by not voting simple because they never registered. It is only when you do, you have to vote.
It is actually the law that you must register if you are eligible. The AEC just doesn't constantly go around cross referencing tax records etc to figure out who has and hasn't enrolled, so the odds of getting caught out are relatively small.
First homebuyer grants were only open to citizens when I bought my property (I was PR so was only able to claim the NSW stamp duty exemption).
Also some countries don't allow dual citizenship so you have to consider which one is more important to you in the long run.
PR can be cancelled like any other Visa
Wild not one comment on Jury Duty yet! Citizenship means you have to be ready to put your life on hold when called up. PR has no such obligation.
It’s fairly straightforward to defer jury duty indefinitely if you read the instructions that come with the letter.
I have been called up for jury duty once in 22 years. Not exactly something to bother factoring into your decision making. Also easy to get out of.
I disagree, but acknowledge everyone will have a different experience.
Most times you can be excused from Jury Duty if needed. Corporate employers are also quite accomodating to prospective jurors.
Wild not one comment on Jury Duty yet! Citizenship means you have to be ready to put your life on hold when called up. PR has no such obligation.
EDIT: You are obliged to do jury duty if called. Yes, you can try and wriggle out of it if you really want (but not always), but that doesn’t change the obligation of citizenship.
Australian passport !!
Some countries don't allow you to have dual citizenship. That's the only point i can think of.
Just curious, if you take up the Australian citizenship, does the Australian government inform the government of the country that you are currently holding citizenship?
I assume they don’t share out such confidential data, unless under special circumstances or maybe strictly with their five eye buddies only,but i could be wrong.
If you're a high profile person in your home country and come to Australia to seek asylum, for example, then you'll be in the news anyway.
But for normal persons who are not in a wanted list, no exchange of such information as I know of. As you may be aware, a country provides legal avenue that allows its citizens to renounce their citizenship by birth.
Someone I know tried this, when they flew “home” they left Australia on their Aus passport (as a citizen you have to use your Aus passport) and tried to go through immigration with their home country passport, immigration detained them and confiscated their home passport and government id card and forced them to apply and pay for a visa. The government then issued them an order to sell all assets within 12 months or forfeit them to the government.
Seeing as your flair says SG... If you secretly get Australian citizenship and ever travel to Singapore, even on your SG passport, don't be surprised if you do get caught. Dun play play one.
Happened to a friend of mine. Dunno what they cross check. Might be because when leaving SG there were pre boarding Aus immigration checks both at checkin, where the airline checks with DHA that you are registered as a dual citizen, and again at the gate where they had to show their Australian passport to ABF officials. Possible the authorities got the info from the airline... So it's best if you don't ever fly directly to or from SG to Aus, go via Malaysia or some other third country. That way SG only ever sees your SG passport from start to finish.
From memory, they gave her 90 days to relinquish her Aus citizenship or they would cancel her Sg one and take legal action if she did not relinquish her relevant SG assets.
Haha ,not a sinkie thou, just currently based here.
Thats interesting! I did not know they have DHA staff at changi, i thought only at boarding points from “high risk” countries.
I personally know a few Singaporeans and Malaysians that secretly held two passports, they all have their own way of navigating through immigration.
a former colleague remains on PR just because she is lazy to apply and to study for the citizenship test.
If you can read English you could study for the citizenship test in probably half an hour.
I jumped from PR to citizenship back in 1999 because the government was talking about requiring permanent residents to pay full fees at uni. I couldn’t afford that so got citizenship instead.
Took up citizenship for HECS
Did you keep your SG citizenship or renounce it? I can't risk potentially losing my SG citizenship by playing the illegal dual game as my mum would lose a lot of benefits (she is only an SPR). Once she passes I would likely consider renouncing SG citizenship as long as they'll still let me into the country on a two week visitor visa lol.
I renounced as soon as I received my Australian citizenship.
Got all my forms filled up and documents ready even before the official ceremony.
When I received my citizenship, I got the Justice of Peace to verify all the documents the next day and sent it over with the NRIC and passport to the embassy. No time to waste. Didn't even feel a thing.
In my case, my brother is also an Australian who lives in a different state 45 mins flight away, and my mom lives with me, and my gf is an American.
So I didn't really have any reasons to retain my Singapore citizenship. I don't have any grudges against Singapore as I had spent 47 years living there but I guess it's time to move on.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like it was seamless. Ahh I wish my immediate family were here with me. I'd renounce in a heartbeat. All my cousins and their parents are here but my mum and eldest brother are still in SG. Unfortunately there's no way my mum will ever move or can move due to circumstances. HECS and never having to worry about losing residency rights would be lovely.
Not having to pay for RRV every 5 years, access to a good passport if yours is shit as well as the ability work in the public service which really opens up the job market
Let’s list the disadvantages. You can be called for jury duty, if war breaks out you need to take arms assuming you are of cannon fodder age, you have to vote which could be a positive or a negative, you may lose citizenship from the place you came from. Upside is no one can tell you to go back to where you came from.
i stayed outside aus for a year and a half and the rule states to only stay outside aus for under a year if you wish to apply. Is there any exemptions so i can do the citizenship asap and not have to wait the whole duration again? my partner is an aus citizen who owns property if that helps.
I'd imagine no unless you meet one of the exemption categories (Google it) and you'll be entering the ministerial discretion area which means you might as well get legal advice if you want to go down that path.
PR just a visa can be canceled anytime
As a citizen you can get government jobs and security clearance. Can’t with PR
I’m staying on PR as my home country doesn’t allow dual citizenship. However my children can have dual citizenship until they’re 21, as long as I don’t revoke my home country citizenship & then they have to pick my home country or Australia - 100% sure they’ll pick Australia.
I’m thinking to get Australian citizenship when all my children formally decided their citizenship but I don’t know…if I become Australian, I probably will miss applying & paying for visas every time I go overseas 🥲
I’m from a crap country with a crap passport so I would go for citizenship down the line
Title: What are the Advantages of Citizenship Over Permanent Residency? , posted by AccomplishedPie1255
Full text: What are your thoughts on permanent residency (PR)? Is anyone choosing not to pursue citizenship and instead stay on PR? What are your reasons for this decision?
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