I Think This Is The End

Romance/Relationships

This is a throwaway account as my husband has my main account. Just over 3 weeks ago, my husband (39m) and I (38f) were fighting, we had been fighting for the entire weekend. On Sunday it came to a head and I slapped him because he was going to go see our kids and he was very angry. I asked him to calm down before going downstairs and when he didn’t, I slapped him to stop him (super smart, I know.)

He called 911, claiming that he had it ready to go because he was afraid that he would get physical with me (something he’s done before) and when the dispatcher answered, my husband hung up. Of course this alerted the cops and they came to our house. Long story short, I admitted what I had done to the officer, and the state where I live any form of domestic violence is an arrestable offense, so I spent the night in jail and am facing charges. I take accountability for the fact that I slapped my husband and am dealing with the legalities.

Where I am struggling is that my husband got physical with me a couple of times before, and I never called the cops (I did not see it as abusive, as it was just a couple of shoves). Our fights have been escalating the last few months, with the last straw before this fight being that he got so angry, he brought a hammer into the house and was threatening to destroy our stuff. We agreed at that point to seek counseling together.

As we had already been seeking counseling, we were able to get into a counselor pretty quickly after the incident. We are separated at this time due to a protective order, which I have actually seen as a blessing in disguise as it’s given me time to evaluate my feelings about this relationship and see my parts in where we went wrong.

His actions since the incident have made me see him in a new light. Before our first counseling session, he accused me of using counseling to better my legal case. He refused to drop our kids off at my mom’s house because she unfriended him on Facebook. He has completely disregarded my boundaries about what I am willing to talk about, even after our counselor agreed my boundaries weren’t unreasonable for where we are in our relationship. Today, after explaining why he was struggling so much, and me not truly understanding what he meant, he opted to tell me he’s not sure that he loves me anymore instead of trying to explain better what he was trying to say, apologizing a couple of hours later. In other ways he’s showing that he can change, actually starting to deal with his adhd, realizing how disgusting a house can be when not cared for, and being more attentive (when he’s not being an ass) then he has been in the past.

Part of me wonders why hitting rock bottom is the reason he started to do things I’ve been asking for years. Why was me asking him before not enough? Can I trust that if we have harder times, he won’t be a complete asshole to me? Are these changes permanent or just enough to get me to allow him to come back home and the cycle starts?

I need this group to know that I know I made a mistake, getting physical is never ok. I will regret my actions for the rest of my life. I am taking accountability for my actions and trying to be better.

Has anyone had anything like this happen? Is this salvageable?

in AskWomenOver30by No_Coffee_9159

184

85%

1mo

hauteburrrito

1.1K

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Get a good and expensive lawyer now, OP.

fortifiedblonde

232

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

I wish I could pin this but my mod powers are not strong enough lol. But this! This a million times! And please start solo therapy if you’ve not yet already.

paper_wavements

108

1mo

Yes, OP needs therapy to understand how she let it go so far to get to this point.

No_Coffee_9159

1mo

Tried an EAP therapist, hated her. I have an appointment next Friday with another therapist.

_Amalthea_

1mo

I've hated the couples therapist and individual therapist I was given through my EAP, but found a wonderful therapist on my own. It may just be a coincidence, but don't rule it out based on that experience. Best of luck to you.

No_Coffee_9159

1mo

Our couples counselor said “EAP counselors are shit.” 😂 I don’t think it’s coincidence.

[deleted]

1mo

homeless snatch brave axiomatic mindless retire snow rotten crawl longing

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

PurpleFlower99

Woman 50 to 60

1mo

The only reason to go to couples counseling at this point it’s to find a way to amicably split

gemInTheMundane

1mo

Which isn't going to happen. Abusive relationships don't end amicably.

rootsandchalice

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Please stop couples counselling. You should not be attempting to save your marriage. You have kids. Please leave.

You need solo counselling.

MeinScheduinFroiline

1mo

I have found good therapists through my EAP and terrible ones. Finding a good counsellor takes time and effort because you’re trying to find somebody to match with, when you’re going through the hardest times of your life. Please don’t give up just because the first one didn’t work. Someone will work and they will help you.

No_Coffee_9159

1mo

I’m absolutely sticking it out for a good therapist.

ValkyrieKitten

1mo

OP. Please keep trying. You are paying the therapist. Find one that you click with, and that understands what you are going through, and trying to achieve. They are worth their weight on gold. It is perfectly alright, and SMART, to interview a bunch of therapists until you find one that is right for you. Just like you would do for any service position. You wouldn't take the advice of a home decorator that didn't understand you, why would you treat your mental well-being any less?

BeBraveShortStuff

female 40 - 45

1mo

I am an attorney and I approve this message. Family law and criminal defense, yesterday. And you need to get out of and stay out of this relationship. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. (Not legal advice. I am an attorney but I am not your attorney. Consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction).

vulpesvulpes666

195

1mo

Yeah, him calling the cops was not on accident because he had 911 on speed dial lol

He’s trying to create evidence to make his case stronger for whatever he wants in this divorce.

Significant-Trash632

104

1mo

Yeah, and now he has proof of abuse and she does not.

I mean, holy crap, I'd be afraid for my life if someone came into my house enraged while welding a hammer.

OP, I truly don't think this relationship is salvageable.

Edit to add: children should not be in a household like this. It's time to go your separate ways.

[deleted]

1mo

deserve fuzzy spotted grandfather fanatical cough north automatic familiar mindless

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

Significant-Trash632

1mo

True

paper_wavements

1mo

Yes, OP, I am worried for you, that your husband will want full custody to hurt you &/or avoid paying child support, & he will leverage your slapping him to get it by saying you would hurt your kids.

MaybeDressageQueen

189

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

I think you should spend some time reading this thread from yesterday titled Did Your Partner Get Better. The overwhelming number of responses to that question were from divorced women. It might help you to put things into perspective.

Ok_Seaweed1996

1mo

I wish this was at the top.

WXGirl83

1mo

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOver30/comments/1c043cy/did_your_partner_get_better/

elvish_foot

1mo

Just combed through this thread, thank you for sharing.

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

The overwhelming number of responses in that thread focus on complaints about housekeeping, not abuse. I feel like those two hardly deserve to be used interchangeably.

MaybeDressageQueen

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

I agree with you. But I've read so many posts from women who are victims of abuse who think there's something they can do to change their abuser. I was hoping something on that thread would help OP to viscerally understand that it isn't possible to make someone change.

fritolaidy

250

1mo

As others have said, you need a lawyer and this marriage is needs to end. Any "change" he's making now is purely for his own sake and not because he actually wants to save the marriage. If he wanted to save it, he would have listened to you long ago when you originally asked for these changes.

I also think you need to hear this: he was abusing you long before you hit him. "A couple of shoves" is physical abuse. It's not fair to yourself to say that because you didn't call the cops on his physical assault of you that it wasn't abuse.

Cyber_Punk_87

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Yep, 100% this. And reactive abuse is a thing. When you're abused, sometimes you reach a point where you feel like the only reaction you have left is to abuse back. It's more common than you'd think.

IANALbutIAMAcat

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

A couple of shoves from someone much bigger, stronger, and scarier than OP is more than just “a couple of shoves.”

The same/inverse way men will actively avoid making women afraid of them (like crossing the street so he’s not walking behind her) OPs husband is using his physicality to assert dominance in a way that OP cannot.

curiouskitty338

-34

1mo

Yes, this was her first slap and he had some shoves, but if I placed Money on it… those shoves were going both ways. It takes two to tango and this whole thing wreaks of abuse from both sides

IANALbutIAMAcat

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Disagree. OP is “not proud” of the slap because she knows better and it was an out-of-character reaction to her husbands increasing physical hostility.

curiouskitty338

-12

1mo

She’s not proud cause she has to include that detail to convey the rest of the story. Things have been “increasingly physical” FROM THE BOTH OF THEM

diabolikal__

Woman 20-30

1mo

He came into the house with a hammer and threatened to “destroy stuff”. Does that go both ways too?

curiouskitty338

-21

1mo

That was another occasion. Not the current one. They both have been escalating violence and physicality.

Do you honestly believe that she never touched him before? Ha.

It might have been manipulation for him to call the police, but who else knows what is going on here. OP is part of the problem.

She’s also making issues between her mother and husband? This is clearly out of hand because of both

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

I hope no one ever responds this way to you if you ever find yourself in an abusive situation and get frustrated and use words or actions to try and hurt back instead of behaving like an angel 100% of the time

curiouskitty338

1mo

lol - again, you’re assuming this is the first time she was every physical in any way with him. She said their fights have escalated physically. That means both of them. Not simply “he got more physical with me”

It’s been physical. It’s been escalating. And she slapped him

Edited because I have been in physical and abusive situations. You always have the choice to walk away

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

You don’t always have the choice to walk away. And even if you do, not exercising it doesn’t always automatically mean you’re equally responsible for the situation. It’s entirely situation and relationship/context-dependent.

curiouskitty338

1mo

That’s the biggest load of crap I’ve heard in a while.

I have hit an abusive ex. I broke my hand. While he was an absolute shit bag… my actions were my actions.

Here he was attempting to leave and she slapped him.

Stop being permissive of violence

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

So you hold yourself equally responsible for all the abuse that occurred in the situation where you hit an abusive ex, you mean? You feel you were abusive to him as much as he was abusive to you and that you only have yourself to blame?

curiouskitty338

-1

1mo

Yes. I didn’t have to hit him. It was a toxic relationship. Two to tango.

“He made me hit him!”

Said no mature adult ever

Continue thread...

BirdBrainuh

1mo

That’s not how abuse works, by definition.

curiouskitty338

-6

1mo

There’s multiple types of abuse and we don’t know if either one are participating

1268348

1mo

OP YOU HAVE CHILDREN. Get a lawyer and a divorce. They should never have to deal with this bullshit.

avocado-nightmare

282

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

How's your counselor been with explaining abusive dynamics and cycles of abuse to you? Have you heard the term reactive abuse - this is when the abuser basically escalates a conflict until their victim acts out in some way in self defense. In this case, your husband antagonized you, made you fearful that he would terrorize or hurt your children, and you slapped him to protect yourself and your children - he then called the police on you. But his actions in the time leading up to the latest fight actually indicate that he's been cultivating a threatening environment for some time. I think you need to proceed very carefully, including around taking blame for slapping him.

In terms of your choice to discount him shoving you and threatening to destroy all your families objects violently with a hammer in front of you and your children - that's intimidation, it is abusive behavior, and I don't think you should've looked the other way or refrained from reporting him. In essence you enabled him because you have demonstrated that a) you will protect him when he behaves dangerously towards you or your children and b) you'll take the blame.

You need a lawyer and you probably need to stop living with him/interacting with him without someone else present.

edit: is this salvageable? Only with extensive individual and family therapy, and, to be honest, I wouldn't recommend it. Particularly as it sounds like things have been getting progressively worse over time, instead of better.

nyliram87

122

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

When I was in my low-20’s, I had a situation like this with a boyfriend. The number of times he pushed me, slapped me, grabbed me by the arm, things like that

One day we got into a huge argument. He came up to me, got real real close and just shouted right in my face, he lifted a hand and I gave him a right hook, right in the face. I wasn’t even thinking “I’m gonna hit him” I just wanted him out of my face. The argument was over something way too stupid to have someone screaming in my face like that

I didn’t know about reactive abuse. He acted like I set his house on fire. “I never touched you, I can’t believe you’d do that, you think you can just get away with it because you’re a woman…”

It’s many years later. Guess who is in prison on multiple violent offenses? Not me. I spent a long time thinking I was the biggest piece of shit in the world for how I reacted during that fight, I was anxious for the whole 4 years SOL, and yet he went on to brandish a knife at his friend. You know how they say “time will tell” well I feel like time did tell here. I never liked the way I responded but I know I didn’t do anything wrong

Significant-Trash632

1mo

He raised his hand as if to hit you. What you did was self-defense.

nyliram87

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

I know that, now. But I was 23 and stupid, I didn’t think like that back then.

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

That sucks. In my mid-20s I also had a boyfriend who raised his hand in front of my face and said he wanted to hit me. This was after I’d watch his best friend shove his wife into a tv for chuckling about something that happened during a football game, and my bf defended it by saying “football means a lot to him”. I dumped him as opposed to hitting him, but I definitely knew that hit guy was bad news. There had been some sexual coercion/manipulation also. Men can absolutely use their larger physically size to imply threat and get outsized influence without always having to follow through.

Bobcatluv

Woman 40 to 50

1mo

I appreciate your sharing that term “reactive abuse.” OP’s experience reminded me of Gabby Petito who was famously about to be arrested by police for admitting to slapping her boyfriend during an altercation before he murdered her.

nyliram87

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Jesus, man that whole situation was wild. And I think it really opened people’s eyes to this type of stuff. In abusive relationships it is just too easy to see one angle, and draw the wrong or incomplete conclusion

empathetic111

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

That was the most insanely insightful link, wow. Thank-you.

One-Armed-Krycek

156

Woman 50 to 60

1mo

Everything beneath, "I slapped him" is irrelevant at this point, OP. You need a lawyer. Even though he did get physical with you, there is no legal paper trail of this. There is not a legal paper trail with you. You need a lawyer.

No, I don't think this is salvageable.

GuavaOk90

1mo

No. Based on what you described. This is the end. Don’t prolong your own suffering.

ginns32

1mo

This is really unhealthy for your kids to be around and I honestly think you two should divorce. Re-read what you wrote and honestly ask yourself if you think things are going to change. In fact you wrote that things have been escalating. I would have left the first time he got physical.

VodenskiChereshni

1mo

Stop putting your kids in the middle of your bad decisions. Go to lawyer and split up already.

OlayErrryDay

101

Non-Binary 40 to 50

1mo

He's accusing you of doing things to build a better legal case because that is what he is doing right now!

He wanted you to slap him, you did it and now this is on your record. Who knows what else he has up his sleeve.

You're in the middle of a war and you're still trying to ring up Germany to ask what is wrong, when they've got soldiers and tanks all lined up across your border.

You need to shift your focus to the divorce, this isn't the end of your marriage, it already ended quite a while ago and now you're just realizing it.

You can grieve later, there will be time for that...for now, start meeting with lawyers and start working on a plan.

some1sWitch

1mo

You need a lawyer. Find a damn good divorce attorney - you'll need it. He will very likely use the DV charge as a reason he should have full custody.

And then ask the divorce attorney for a reccomencation for a criminal defense attorney. DO NOT try to defend yourself against these charges.

You two do not need to be living in the same home. Violence has occurred multiple times before.

ETA: do. Not. Plead. Guilty. To. Your. Dv. Charges. Lawyer. And only plead if that is what your lawyer reccomends.

And no, your relationship has been dead for ages. Mourn it if you need, but don't even consider trying again. It'll be awful for you and worse for the innocent kids.

No_Coffee_9159

1mo

Unfortunately, my lawyer did tell me to plead, since I admitted to a police officer on camera. All it would take is them showing body cam footage of me admitting and I’d be done. In my state, if convicted it DV charges, they can never be sealed. If I plead or try for a diversion program, I can complete the program and can then seal the records.

EuphoricSwimming3911

1mo

This. They'll put you on probation for 2 years and then drop the charges off your record. They'll have you do therapy and probably go to a probation officer for 6 months or so.

Mother-Pen

1mo

You cant heal in that sort of environment. I have been there.... As another commentor mentioned please research Reactive Abuse, a form of self defense, that you are explaining. Also check out the book (free pdf online) Why Does He Do That.

Coconosong

Non-Binary 30 to 40

1mo

The relationship is broken and you are at a disadvantage as you wait for him to heal and become the person you need him to be. When a man responds with “I don’t think I love you” it means they are opting out of the work that it will take to contribute to a family unit. It’s done. Even if he apologizes, he has shown you his cards.

You need to consult with a lawyer. You likely need to seek support with a coach, group, therapist, or counsellor that demonstrates that you do not have anger management issues or a record of abusive behaviour. You need to get ahead of this going severely south.

stealthisvibe

1mo

Why Does He Do That? free archived pdf

eratoast

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Why do you even want to salvage a relationship with a man who's been physically abusive with you before?

[deleted]

1mo

Codependency

FatTabby

1mo

Do you really want to salvage this relationship? As an outsider to your marriage, I don't see why you'd even ask 'is it salvageable' when to me, the real question is 'how do I extricate myself from this marriage as safely and speedily as possible?'

If nothing else, your kids don't deserve to grow up in a household where their parents are at war and the police are getting called.

theycallhertammi

Woman

1mo

He changed because his circumstances changed (you left). He was forced to deal with the consequences. Should you go back he will revert to his previous behavior. He didn’t adjust his behavior when you asked him to because there were no consequences. People like this are poor partners. They don’t listen and take into account their partners feelings. They only change because things changed. If you want to risk more years of your life trying then go back. But remember that he never truly heard you when you communicated with him. He only felt the consequences of your absence.

americanrecluse

1mo

Not salvageable. Pretty sure that hammer wasn’t for your stuff.

de-milo

Woman 40 to 50

1mo

i can’t believe this was just glossed over. i’d be terrified.

BirdBrainuh

1mo

You slapped your husband to protect your kids, this sounds like reactive violence from you OP, and is completely understandable given your situation. Your husband is abusive and weaponizing the cops against you to maintain control, read about DARVO.

ellbeeb

Woman 40 to 50

1mo

Forget this man - the relationships you need to salvage are the ones with yourself and your children. He is abusive and will ruin your life. Work on picking up the pieces and moving on.

Deep_Character_1695

1mo

This is deeply dysfunctional, you bring out the absolute worst in each other to the point that there’s been multiple instances of physical aggression and some police intervention, you sound trauma bonded. I can’t see how any amount of therapy would salvage this. You don’t want your children to be internalising any of this into their template for future relationship. Even if they’re not present when these things happen, they will pick up on the dynamic between you. You need to walk away now and get a good lawyer because currently he has the upper hand.

Shepard88

1mo

He has the police dialed because he was worried he'd hit you? Did he call the police on himself for the other times? Genuinely sounds like he's setting you up. This isn't a man who is afraid. This is a man who was ready to invite the police into your house with your kids there, knowing full well the legal consequences.

Forget everything and get legal advice and limit your communication with him. Make a plan for support for yourself and your kids.

nuclearclimber

1mo

If you told your mother about the previous times he shoved you or brought in a hammer through text, then you need to screengrab those communications like yesterday. Bring those to your lawyer who you need to hire like, yesterday. Those texts may help show your side of the story.

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

I think based on what you’ve written here it sounds 100% like you were set up. I think confessing to the police right away rather than taking whatever right to remain silent that exists was a mistake. I agree with others that you need to lawyer up now. Sounds like he could potentially try and create a papertrail that could result in your kids getting taken from you in event of divorce if you give him a chance.

rootsandchalice

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

He’s showing you he can change?

You both need therapy and should not be together. For your kids sake please separate and go your separate ways. Learn how to be a better you so you are good for them.

scutmonkeymd

1mo

Don’t go to therapy with him. He’s an abuser.

Lizzy_is_a_mess

1mo

Khloe kardashian (which I hate) recently said “ I see the greatness in these men and then they mess up terribly. And when I put up with it, help them and endure the pain they put me through then say “wow you’re such a great person” why am I always great after they fuck up? Why can they ever look at me like I look at them and know their great without breaking them”

You’re being khloe right now leave.

ghostbungalow

1mo

Sheesh. Well he got you.

You said he accused YOU of “trying to better your legal case”, and look at him - had 911 on pre-dial just waiting for you.

Do you know how hard it’s going to be to get fair 50/50 child custody with DV on your record? You’ll be lucky to avoid getting put on supervised visitation with your kids if he brings this up during divorce proceedings. And why wouldn’t he?

You being the bad guy = no 50/50 right out the gate, no child support; he’s the abused party trying to protect his kids. idk about alimony, etc.

But get a lawyer and remember.. Do not give him a reaction and don’t say anything stupid over text nor email. COOLER HEADS PREVAIL.

EuphoricSwimming3911

1mo

It's possible she has text proof of some of their other interactions. I can only hope anyway. I had video proof of my ex admitting to putting his hands on me previously.

MofoMadame

1mo

Once it gets physical it needs to be over, It's hard to stop on either side.

N you learn a lot about a person when the relationship is over, more than in it unfortunately.

beerbroskis

1mo

I am so sorry for what happened. I completely get it and understand what you just went through. My ex did the same thing to me, except he’s a cop so it’s been ongoing hell because of that and hasn’t stopped. I was served divorce papers in* jail. He was physically, emotionally, and financially abusive the entire marriage. He was waiting to instigate something.

Edit- a typo

AnastaciaLBC

1mo

I had a friend who's husband grabbed the wheel while she was driving and their two girls were in the back seat. He tried to swerve them into a wall so she punched him. Just what he needed. He called police and she was arrested. He had been cheating on her and she just discovered it that morning, the texts about how they were doing butt stuff. She was holding it together to talk to him about it that night but he got her first. She lost her job and custody of her girls and the home she lived in for the last 15 years. It was very sad. You gave him ammo. Don't engage don't talk to him don't do anything with him don't put anything in writing don't admit to anymore absolutely nothing. Talk to a lawyer if you can. Pack as much as you can. This is gonna get ugly. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry this happened to you.

EuphoricSwimming3911

1mo

Ugh. Your poor friend. I'm seeing stuff like this far too often with women. It's so sad.

[deleted]

1mo

attempt violet cow special fertile whistle aloof concerned zesty punch

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Niandraxlades

1mo

This is the best comment. The rest are great too but this one is the best.

Niandraxlades

1mo

Im replying to myself to make sure OP sees it but: this isn't the end. It's the start of a much, much bigger problem.

PoglesWood

1mo

Your poor children.

airi-hatake

1mo

Get a fucking divorce, oh my god. You're in an abusive relationship. Nothing will fix this once either of you get physical. Abuse of any sort throws the relationship out the window. You two are not compatible. And don't involve your kids in this. It sounds like you despise each other and there is NO TRUST between you two, just manipulations and scheming. GET A DIVORCE, GET A LAWYER, and see if a trusted relative or close friend can help watch the kids. They cannot be in the house and hear or see this shit.

Neither of you love each other anymore.

Vermicelli-Fabulous

1mo

The just a couple shoves line is bleak. I hope you get a great therapist and understand that a healthy relationship doesn’t come with a couple shoves.

Also, delete this post. Damaging to your current legal issues if discovered.

Meanpony7

1mo

No thinking, this is the end.

The moment you slapped him (whether reactive abuse or just abuse) was the clarion bell that this marriage is over.

Taking accountability means leaving him to create a safer environment for all involved.

sla3018

Woman 40 to 50

1mo

I'm so sorry OP. I am not someone who jumps to "divorce him" quickly like many others in this sub, but for me, this would be my rock bottom. It sounds like you guys have really, really tried. But things are not working. It's okay for you to continue to try for the sake of coparenting, but it sounds like your marriage is not viable at this point. I'm so, so sorry. I can only imagine how badly this hurts. I'm glad you're already in counseling. But I really think it is for the best if you stay separated and divorce. You deserve better and so do your kids.

such-a-mom

1mo

Therapy for your kids, too. ASAP.

spezaz

1mo

my ex did the same thing. Run!

thehalflingcooks

Woman 30 to 40

1mo

Your poor kids.

[deleted]

1mo

Jesus fucking christ. Both of you suck. Get a lawyer and a divorce. Glad you’re owning up to your part… But do your kids a solid and don’t let them continue to grow up in an abusive household where their parents have little respect for each other.

Glittering_Shallot31

1mo

What the fuck did I just read

trundlespl00t

1mo

Wow. He stitched you right up and you still can’t see it. Your only hope now is evidence of past abuse. No way that speed dial wasn’t in his long term plan.

Maleficent-Bend-378

-1

1mo

No one forced her to hit her husband; she is completely accountable for her own behavior.

trundlespl00t

1mo

Didn’t say she wasn’t meant to take responsibility for doing something wrong, but reactive abuse is a thing. He had that number on speed dial, he knew she’d spend the night in jail. He’s been abusive for quite a long time, it seems, and now he’s in prime position to get whatever he wants when the marriage ends, which is soon. No way he didn’t plan this. Doesn’t mean she didn’t fall for it and screw up.

Justmakethemoney

1mo

You need a lawyer, possibly 2. You're going to want a good family attorney for the divorce/custody battle you're about to have, and you also probably will need a criminal lawyer to deal with the assault charges.

Your marriage is over. Even if there were a way to save it, you shouldn't. You have both been physical with each other. God knows what your kids have seen/heard, and if they've seen domestic abuse that's also child abuse.

Both of you need to get away from each other, and do your best to co-parent. You both need to stop with this bullshit and put your kids first.

EuphoricSwimming3911

1mo

A family attorney will be able to take care of the DV case as well.

StoreyTimePerson

1mo

When you’ve gotten to the point where police have been called more than once, it’s time to go. It’s just not normal, healthy or good for the kids. Lawyer up and just get out of there.

Jaymite

1mo

He sounds abusive to me. He's escalating and it'll just get worse. He's blaming things on you, whereas you're taking accountability. He's going to be a nightmare to divorce. He will probably try to punish you with the kids and use that arrest against you. If he's suddenly being way better it's because he's probably realising that if you leave he's going to have to sort his own shit out and that's more work for him.

CurvyAnna

1mo

You hit your husband, exposed your children to violence and police interaction, and your marriage is now over.

To be honest, the very strategic wording you use makes it clear you aren't actually taking responsibility here.

curiouskitty338

1mo

Good to see this comment. This is the tip of the iceberg and that so many people assume this was “reactive abuse” without knowing the whole story?

The whole thing reads to me that she is equally problematic

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

I think you need to read “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. It’s not at all uncommon for abusive or controlling men to try and use police against their partner and try and frame themselves as the victim. The reason men don’t often call police on women is because they’re normally much stronger and can leave a situation easier if they want, than vice versa. The fact the woman admitted right away to the police that she slapped him shows she’s not thinking very strategically about her own position, imo, let alone being some kind of master manipulator herself.

curiouskitty338

-1

1mo

She had to explain the slap to get advice on her current position and how she ended up there. She has been harboring resentment over a “disgusting house” and his undiagnosed ADHD. Things have “been escalating physically” it’s 110 both of them. I do not believe for a second she went from nothing to a full on slap… especially when he was attempting to LEAVE the situation

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

She didn’t say he was trying to leave altogether, she said he was trying to go downstairs to their kids and it sounds like she may have been afraid. I agree information is incomplete.

But if you think a slap is a drastic form of abuse, or that abuse in relationships is never particularly lopsided, well, you must have lived a more charmed life than I have…

curiouskitty338

-5

1mo

GTFO with that second paragraph. Not my point at all. It’s clearly a form of abusive and if he had slapped her, my god, this forum would be unwell.

He said he wanted to see their kids and she slapped him. “Our fights have been escalating physically”

This shit did not come out of nowhere and one is not the victim. They are both toxic

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

And I say again, I think you are making assumptions that we haven’t been given enough information to make.

She said he’s shoved her twice and brandished a hammer about their house threatening to break stuff. She says she’s scared of him and that this is the first time she’s slapped him. Why are you so convinced she must be lying to this anonymous Internet forum, and what do you think her motivation to do that would be?

curiouskitty338

-4

1mo

And you’re making assumptions that it was a completely isolated incident.

I’m assuming that because she shares she slapped him AND “our fights have escalated physically” instead of “he has become more violent” etc

She wants sympathy and she wants to be the victim here. She’s making it appear like, “oh I made one tint mistake and now I’m going to be hung for it” when it has been them BOTH. They are both toxic and need to part. Period.

Montpellier33

female 30 - 35

1mo

The whole premise of this subreddit and Reddit in general is normally to respond based on the information given. Imo, your take on this situation involves making a lot more assumptions about the situation than most other people’s here, since others are taking the OP at her words and you’ve decided she must be a liar.

And to your other point, if all she wanted was sympathy, why would she say “our fights have escalated physically” instead of just saying that he had gotten violent, as you suggest? Personally, I’m not even finding your own reasoning here internally consistent…

curiouskitty338

1mo

My reasoning is that she admits to slapping him and that “our fights have been escalating”

Which def means from both sides. Irs both of them or you best believe she would be stating otherwise

Continue thread...

Flimsy-Maximum7227

1mo

You slapped him because he was upset and leaving the room? You both are toxic. Get those kids out of that situation. You’re a mother now. They are your priority. Not your feelings, your husbands, or your toxic behaviors.

taranova17

1mo

Have you ever heard of reactive abuse?

Flimsy-Maximum7227

1mo

Neither behavior is acceptable.

taranova17

1mo

Well I wouldn’t be so quick to judge or shame others. It’s not really acceptable to call an abuse survivor “toxic” either. People react in unpredictable or “unacceptable” ways sometimes when they feel their children are in danger. She made a mistake and is obviously paying a hefty price for it. And you feel the need to get on here and shame her parenting.

Flimsy-Maximum7227

1mo

Bro it facts. Neither behavior is acceptable. The fact you’re arguing that abuse of any kind is acceptable especially in front of kids means there no reason for me to continue speaking with this with you. Ignorant response.

taranova17

1mo

You’re clearly the one who is ignorant in this situation. It’s amazing when people get online and are jerks without empathy to others. And you’re so self righteous and smug about it too. Have the day you deserve 👋🏻

extragouda

1mo

He had the police on speed dial because he was waiting for a chance to put you in jail. He has also abused you many times before - shoving, intimidating with a hammer!!! With a hammer!!! A hammer is a weapon. I don't think that was for your stuff, I think that he wanted you to think it was for you. I also guarantee that if he had used the hammer, he would have only broken YOUR stuff -- this is almost straight from a text book about abuse. Calling the police will get you to be compliant, which is about his power and control over you. He will also manipulate other people's opinions about you in your friend and family circle.

I'm only saying this because you didn't see the shoving and hammer before as abusive. If he hadn't done those things, I wouldn't call what you did reactive abuse, but it is. This is a bad man who doesn't care if your reputation is destroyed, who doesn't care if your children are taken from you, and who will abuse you through legal means if necessary because now if you see your children after you divorce, you may have to be supervised as if you are a criminal.

Please see a lawyer ASAP. You should not be trying to salvage anything. Your children should not have to deal with the two of you together. This man actually despises you. I'm sorry. You shouldn't be living with him.

Also... please do not do couples counseling with an abuser. Couples counseling replies to two people being honest about wanting to move forward with the relationship or come to an equitable solution. It relies on HONESTY and respect. You can't trust your husband. He's likely to use the sessions to manipulate you.

I've seen these situations play out many times before. Please leave this man asap. He doesn't love you, he hates you, actually. I'm sorry about what you are going through, but this is not a good relationship, very toxic. I'm not sure what you are trying to save. There is nothing to save about this marriage. Just save yourself and the kids.

Foxy_Traine

1mo

Wow. Your poor children are going to grow up thinking this is what a relationship is supposed to look like... You are creating generational trauma by allowing this to continue. I'm glad he called the cops and I hope this is a sign that your toxic relationship dynamic is coming to an end!

Correct-Sprinkles-21

1mo

It NEEDS to be the end. Relationships that have become violent very rarely (almost never) heal. At this point in my life, my opinion is that a relationship should end the very first time violence occurs, no second chances. So IMO your divorce is long overdue. "A couple of shoves" is abusive and not at all normal.

I believe you that he has been physical with you before. And I believe you that he is by and large the worst of the two of you in terms of aggression.

But I think your perspective is a bit skewed. You didn't call the cops then, but you should have. You chose not to hold him accountable and you chose to stay in a violent relationship. You made bad choices then. Him calling 911 when you got physical is not something you should look at as a betrayal. It should help you realize just how wrong you were for not doing so when he got violent. If two adults can't keep hands off each other when arguing, someone has to step in, and that is what these laws are for.

No, you cannot trust this change. The chance of it being permanent is infinitesimally low. Especially if you jump right back into it based on promises and pleading. Or on your guilt over the slap.

frankly, I'm not reading any indication that he has changed in a positive way. He's just changed his MO and sprinkled in a good dose of emotional manipulation.

Maintain the protective order. Maintain the separation. Get a divorce. Get yourself help. Get your kids in counseling. Stay single for a good long while. Not him, not anyone else. Sort yourself out thoroughly before even thinking about any kind of relationship. I say all of this as someone who has to do the very same thing. It's hard. Do it anyway. Your kids deserve better choices from you. And you deserve better choices from yourself.

EuphoricSwimming3911

1mo

Feel free to message me, OP. I've been in this situation.

Solid-Gazelle-4747

1mo

Is this group just doom and gloom.

Orange_Zinc_Funny

1mo

Also, read Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft. You can find a free pdf copy lying around on the internet.

Independent-Summer12

1mo

On behalf of your kids, if you decide to try to work things out with him, please please please have a one strike and out policy. If things go back to the old cycle, get out. Because what you described being a me back to when I was young and my parents would have these all out fights. She him more than he hit her, but when he did hit her, it was harder. My parents never divorced, I wish they did, still wish they would (at least they don’t live together anymore, thank God). Anyway, I came here to say, as a child living in that household, it was awful. You never know when yours parents are gonna go off, and that you are worried that one of them might actually seriously hurt the other. And the noise of things breaking. Don’t do this to your kids.

Majesticmuskox

1mo

Oh my god. He pushed you around and threatened to destroy the home you built together? Why would you have stayed after that? Side note, it’s never appropriate to lay hands on your partner for whatever reason.

curiouskitty338

1mo

The number of women in here claiming it’s “reactive abuse” and that it IS ok without knowing the full story are scary.

Majesticmuskox

1mo

It can be reactive and still not be right.

curiouskitty338

1mo

I agree.

Marpleface

1mo

Get a lawyer for yourself and therapy for your & your children. Get out, this will only get worse and you have to protect your children. You are both escalating, he came in with a hammer?????

Lanky_Instruction814

1mo

Man, you never know how you are going to react to abuse until it happens to you. Sometimes your emotions just blindside you and you lose control. Sounds like you are walking through the consequences and will come away from this realizing that the situation is far from healthy and safe for everyone involved.

I had an abusive ex. He was experiencing some sort of mental illness (maybe undiagnosed bipolar? I’m not knowledgeable enough to diagnose him). Also had a high powered career. Crazy, horrible, insane temper. Would flip out if I burned dinner- scream, break things, punch holes in walls, etc. I never knew what would set him off. He never got super physical but he did shove me into the shower wall once, wasn’t crazy hard but I hit my head and was really scared. One night we were arguing over something and he flipped out and started on one of his rants, I guess our neighbors finally had enough and called the cops. I was mortified and hid in the bathroom the entire night. The next fight we had, he took me only set of car keys and threw them into a nearby lake. I lost my sh*t and screamed at him like I never had before. Scared myself, mainly because I stooped to his level. That was my indicator to leave, and his verbal abusive and threatening behavior continued for many years even after we broke up. Sounds like some proper legal counseling and working towards self - reconciliation will be more beneficial to you than trying to repair this. Good luck.

highwayqueen16

1mo

Good lord, slapping your husband shouldn't land you a night in jail.

thecheesycheeselover

1mo

This marriage is no good for either of you, and you both need to work on yourselves and figuring out how to build a healthier relationship as coparents.

I really wish you all the best OP, I know this must be more difficult to live through than anyone who’s not currently in it can understand. It sounds like you’re ready to take accountability, and I truly hope your current partner can do the same.

cantrellasis

Follow that inner voice that knows exactly the right thing to do. It is a classic pattern for him to shape up and be wonderful for a while, and then it all starts to slide again. Whether it is verbal or physical, abuse is abuse. This is called the 'cycle of abuse'. Google that term or the 'power and control wheel' and see if anything there feels familiar. Counseling is great. Separately. Focus on your own mental health and that of your children. If he is serious about change, he will consent to separate counseling as well. Don't hold your breath. You may find with some perspective that you may not want to remain with him. As you noted, forced separation is a good thing. Use this time to think things through. Follow your inner voice. It KNOWS.

LilyRivoe

1mo

Short term change is easy. Long term change is not. If you're seeing change now, see it for what it is. Why didn't he change before counseling, before the incident, etc? He's losing the relationship now, so he'll change for what he wants, so /he/ doesn't lose something. Not because you were miserable and he wanted to make you happy. If the change is a big thing and big gesture, it's not going to be sustainable for him. If it's true change with true baby steps, it may stick and only if he has it in him to keep going one baby step at a time. And you'd have to patiently wait and be there with every step and not decide to end the separation until true change has taken place. It's hard and unlikely. My experience with couples therapy has been that it prolonged relationships that should have ended months (5) and years (3) earlier. Now, I'll only go to couples therapy in the beginning, when things are still good and we are working to better our communication, understanding, and arguing styles. I'll never go as a last effort once shit hit the fan.

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