Aitah for leaving my husband after he gave away some of my babies ashes?

Advice Needed

My daughter passed away in a tragic accident when she was 2 years old. At the time my step daughter was still coming around regularly and we had a decent relationship, we weren't close or anything but I tried my best to get along for my husband's sake. She was 13 at the time my daughter passed away and SDs mother came to my husband and I asking if she could have some of my daughters ashes to put in a keepsake for SD. I refused off the bat. Not only is SD not responsible enough for something that important, I didn't like the idea of separating my babies ashes at all. SD has since stopped visiting as much and it's been 3 years since my daughter passed away and SDs mom came to me again asking for "more ashes" because SD lost the keepsake sometime ago and was torn up about it. I was shaking because I was clear about not wanting to separate her ashes and asked her what she meant. She told me that after the initial conversation we had 3 years ago, my husband gave her the ashes anyways to put in the keepsake. I confronted my husband on this and he shrugged it off saying that it wasn't that big of a deal. I packed my bags and took my daughters urn and went to stay at my sister's house. It's been 2 weeks since I left and he's been blowing up my phone with phone calls and texts, some begging and crying and some telling me I'm an ah for blowing this out of proportion. Then today a mutual friend sent me a screenshot of a post made on Facebook from SDs mother saying that I am punishing my husband for doing something nice for his only living child and that I am just bitter. I am so torn up over this... AITAH?

Eta: I should clarify during the initial conversation I never said I wasn't open to having this conversation again at a later time once she was older and more mature. When discussing arrangements for our daughter we agreed mutually that she would be cremated ONLY because neither of us knew where our final resting places would be and we wanted her with us wherever we ended up, not buried just to be buried. We are both from different states than we are currently residing in so neither were sure we wanted to be buried here.

in AITAHby Sock0w0

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Rowana133

NTA and the post would send me over the edge. FUCK YOUR HUSBAND AND HIS EX WIFE. The nerve. "Doing something nice for his only LIVING child." Who THE FUCK SAYS THAT SHIT?! nah. Divorce the douche and send him back to his bitch ex. I'm so pissed on your behalf. And you were right! It's clear SD is not responsible enough to handle that.

WallBasic2790

Same! I felt my blood boiling when I read this! I'd seriously kick some serious butt if this happened to me. I can't even imagine being in OP's shoes. Definitely NTA

Rowana133

Like idk if there is anything OP can do legally, but I would be suing or pressing charges. I'd be going scorched earth as much as I could. To not only steal the ashes BUT TO LOSE THEM?!

GRK--

He didn’t steal anything. It’s his baby as well. In a divorce, those ashes would be (will be?) split 50/50 if neither agrees to give them up. This is legal precedent.

I get so annoyed by this assumption that somehow the baby belongs to the mother more than the father. We want to have secure footing in the belief of gender equality, then it’s not possible to cling onto entitlement to the privileges of maternal gender roles, while also expecting equal footing in areas of underprivilege. Logic that ends with “because she’s the mother” opens up many other things that end the same way.

Rowana133

Yeah, except that means they should BOTH be in agreement. He went behind her back and STOLE some ashes. Yes, it is stealing. Just like it would be stealing if he took some money out of a joint account. Just like it would be stealing if OP had stolen ashes and given them to somebody, her husband said no to. And SHE WAS RIGHT IN HER CONCERNS CONSIDERING THE SD LOST THEM. That means a part of her child is lost somewhere. It's not something like a pair of shoes, whoops, sorry, step mom! I borrowed a pair and lost them. This was her child. And then to have the nerve to DEMAND MORE ASHES?! AND MAKE A POST WITH THROWING SHADE AT HER CHILD BY MAKING A POINT TO POINT OUT HER "LIVING CHILD?" Are you high? Or just delusional? In no way, shape, or form is OPs husband RIGHT for what he did.

GRK--

If you and I own a pizza and I eat a slice, it isn’t stealing.

If you and I have a joint account and I spend money we haven’t agreed on, that is not stealing. It is quite literally not stealing.

By your logic. If we had a joint account, and I said, don’t buy any more furniture. You decided to buy more furniture anyway. We went to court to divorce. Do you think I’d be entitled to getting all that money back?

Disagreement does not mean inaction.

Rowana133

It's not an all or nothing kind of deal. Of course, there are nuances that differ the situation. You can find that any time. That's why divorces are so messy and you show receipts and financial info. But in this case, in regards to their child's ashes, where OP had legitimate concerns about giving them to his child for a keepsake? Yeah, he's wrong. It is stealing. It is lying. It is wrong.she should divorce him.

GRK--

It’s not all or nothing. He didn’t take all the ashes. He took a small part of the portion over which he rightfully had decisionmaking power, with or without unanimous agreement.

The decision for something doesn’t automatically go to inaction if there is disagreement. Inaction is also an action.

In this case. I don’t care about whether OP had “legitimate concerns.” She did and does not have decisionmaking power over the entirety of their child’s ashes. If the father wanted to spread them in a forest, he would be right to be able to spread half of them, at the limit of complete disagreement.

The reason you think it is stealing is because in your gut, you think the mother has more ownership of the ashes and has the controlling say. This is why it comes across to you as stealing them from their owner.

To avoid talking about dead children. If you and I bought a pizza with our shared account. An expensive truffle pizza with artisanal mozzarella. We open it up and I say, hey, our cute dog Pixie wants a slice. You say, no, I have legitimate concerns; this was expensive and the dog doesn’t care about truffles, it could be buttered toast and he’d like it just the same. I give him a slice anyway.

Would this be stealing? No. Not because it is “just a pizza.” But because it being “just a pizza” allows you to accept more easily that we both have equal say over the pizza, and we each can do—with our half—what we please. But you don’t like this logic with the ashes because it’s harder for you to accept their equal ownership, and thus their equal ability, in the case of outright disagreement, to do with their half what they please.

Rowana133

Wow. I'd really hate to be married to you if you STILL think what he did was okay. Yes, he is an owner of the ashes, BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN AGREEMENT ON HOW TO DISTRIBUTE THEM. Plus, OP even says that her husband didn't disagree or say anything when she said she wasn't comfortable separating the ashes. He had a chance to speak up and talk about it. OP also said that her No didn't mean No forever, it meant not right now because she's too irresponsible. He KNEW how she felt, KNEW what he was going to do anyways and then lied and hid it. Then dismissed her feelings by "it's not a big deal!" AND YOU STILL THINK ITS OKAY? Wow... A pizza and ashes are different in their overall value, so your comparison is asinine. Just because he's in the clear LEGALLY doesn't mean he is morally..and if you can't understand that, then you are obviously just as big of an asshole as OPs husband and his ex. I'm done talking to you because clearly you are just as selfish and uncaring as OPs husband and his ex. And no, it's not because OP is a mother. If this was the husband posting about OP giving the ashes away, then I'd be just as pissed on his behalf.

GRK--

23h

They should have been in agreement, but they weren’t, and it isn’t always possible to find agreement in things.

The pizza is very different in value, and it’s useful as an example because it’s easier to think logically about it, without emotion overwhelming what is reasonably wrong or right.

Rational adults in the world don’t find agreement in everything, so they instead find compromise. Compromises like, okay, give the dog a few slices if you’d like, but just don’t give away my half. Fair enough.

“OP said that her ‘No’ didn’t mean ‘no’ forever…” This is the dumbest, and most condescending shit I could have read. Oh how merciful the gods have been, giving a glimmer of hope for the future. Sorry, but what she might decide in the future is a very different problem than how she decides to compromise now. It isn’t her sole decision to make in the future either, and his doing what he wants with his half does not require her to accept his decision, but rather requires her to compromise with the reality that it’s his decision as well— action or inaction, immediately or in the future.

What I agree with is that he should have told her, you’re right.

I think my wife enjoys being married to me because she gets all the same benefits of being with someone who understands that when we jointly own or have things, compromise is required in the absence of agreement.

The “threat” of compromise looming over each disagreement often drives agreement, because an equal compromise is usually less satisfying. It forces us to make decisions rather than hold grudges or passive aggression over each others’ heads.

It’s a pretty simple approach, really. She decides one day that we need to replace our cars since they’re getting a bit old. I say no, we don’t need to. But I know that if we don’t agree, the halfway point is for her to replace one car. I don’t think that makes sense, so I tell her, let’s wait one year and then we can replace them both. She agrees. Easy.

I say that I’d really love to turn the basement into an arcade and gaming room. She dislikes the idea. She definitely dislikes the compromise of half the basement being an arcade room, so she says, if you really want an arcade room, how about the garage? Okay.

It is just this mild form of “mutually assured destruction” where the consequence of not agreeing is an objective compromise that is slightly worse than what either of us want, so it requires some basic work to find an agreement, and then that’s that. Although we might not always like what we agree on, at least it never feels unfair, because it’s always better than the “fair” halfway compromise that we likely worked to avoid.

Rowana133

20h

We are just going to have to agree to disagree then. Because you clearly think that because he's legally in the clear, that means he was okay to do it. I disagree. It was fucked up what he did.

It shows he didn't value OPs feelings or wishes. Her child just had died, and he decided to go behind her back and give away ashes.

Yes. He technically is in the clear because it was his child too, but he clearly didn't respect OP enough to wait until she's not in the trenches of depression to talk to her about it again. He hid it. He lied for years. Then he dismisses her feelings about it.

If that's your idea of marriage because you use logic and what's right legally to decide, then that's sad to me. Sometimes, it's not about logic, and it's about what's actually right. What OPs husband did wasn't right, and you can continue to defend him, but I'm not changing my mind. If he were my husband, we'd be divorcing over this. Period. It shows a real callousness to OPs feelings that I just can't get behind, regardless of the legalities. Compromise is helpful in certain situations, this is not one of them. You can not compare the value of her child's remains with a basement or pizza. It's that kind of thinking that is just cold. So agree to disagree because I'm NOT going to agree with YOU or OPs husband, no matter how you try to spin the logic.

GRK--

I understand your perspective. In OP’s shoes, I actually would divorce the husband too, not because he gave away the ashes, but because he concealed and hid it.

The insidious thing that OP’s husband did was agree with her verbally, but then go behind her back and do what he wanted anyway. Especially on something so important, this is a complete undermining of trust. I wouldn’t be able to rebuild this trust if someone could be deceptive to me on something so big.

The husband would have been right in telling her that he was going to give some of the ashes to his daughter because they were also his ashes and he has equal say in what happens with them. He could have also been depressed, and giving some of the ashes to his daughter could have been a mechanism to also help himself to grieve.

However, he decided to lie instead. I talk about the pizza because I have kids and don’t want to casually talk about kids’ ashes. But notice how I gave the example of telling my partner that I was going to give away the slice. If I said “you’re right, I won’t give the dog a slice” but then snuck a slice under the table anyway when she wasn’t looking, that would be quite wrong. It’s “just a pizza,” but the principle would still stand.

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