thinking abt how women shaped people get punished for not masking

honestly, this is kind of fair. its not something that my skip level would know about because I'm in operations but i have been avoiding my NCs bc I've found it really stressful. i burned through a lot of them though! but its definitely not a reason my skip level would even have to hold against me bc operations would love to open more NCs actually.

in general if there is an issue which is shutting down the line i work on it as quickly/effectively as possible. it's all the non-crisis stuff that i really struggle with. but i think those r getting conflated.

Right? Outspoken vigilantes are hardly the type of people who are a joy to work with.

where have i escalated. am confused.

i AM medicated! as far as i can tell, all it does is keep me awake while driving. and extended release versions make me even less likely to eat lmao.

bro ive been trying so hard.

ive been talking abt my eating issues for like 6 months and it took me until last monday JUST to get diagnosed with ARFID. I'm not even getting treated yet.

wait times for psychiatrists are 6+ months, and my PCP who provides my meds isn't an adhd expert so we're just kinda flying blind.

so like, believe me I'm trying but like, it is NOT going well.

thank you buddy!!!

i have made many enemies among directors and above due to having the audacity to ask EHS for help re electrical fire safety among other things, and my skip level is literally known for being petty and getting obsessive over ppl who have wronged him or who don't behave the way he expects.

so i do think I'm singled out, but maybe just the adhd is adding to it lol.

although. my strong sense of justice and desire for compliance probably would be less of an issue if i didn't have adhd and maybe autism lmao.

then why am i generally appreciated by people who actually do work (not managers). pls explain.

also, after multiple people are cutting and mean, why would you think I'm going to be nice back. that's so weird.

I disagree with the "special snowflake" part, but agree with everything else. OP, I thought up this whole thing, but you really don't seem to be open to listening to anyone who disagrees with you. So I'll just leave it at, "you sound insufferable, and for all that I hate people-ing, there IS a minimum amount of socialization required to get along with people and function in a company."

This was my exact thought. One of my best friends was recently fired for a lot of the same reasons. She was blindsided by it, but even just from hearing her work stories secondhand, I wasn't. Both me and my friend have ADHD (as do other people in this thread, I'm sure, because it's an extremely common diagnosis), and I've been telling her for years that she can't use her diagnosis as an excuse to let her life fall into chaos. And other people actually don't need to make all kinds of concessions for you. Everyone's mental health is their own responsibility, and it doesn't fall to other people to work around you.

This has intense not like other girls but for ADHD energy

actually, follow up.

can u explain where i was rude. i am confused.

special snowflake

I'm assuming this is how you treat your trans colleagues lol.

I'm nonbinary and experience misogyny which is why I say woman shaped.

I thought it was cute actually.

ok boomer

do u realize you are talking about a visible symptom of my disability. its like saying "something tells me that your problems might be more around having mobility issues".

'cause like. sure. maybe it's because i have visible symptoms of my ADHD and it has nothing to do with gender.

it's still kinda rich that my company "champions" DE+I and had a whole training about neurodiversity, but I am still being treated this way.

especially bc like, they want the rewards of neurospicy people (we hyperfocus, we have creative problem solving methods, etc), but if you want those, u kinda have to accept where we struggle lol. we still have disabilities due to living in societies that don't accommodate who we are.

Or she could get accommodations at work through ADA. There's no need to jump straight to disability wow.

why did you feel the need to be mean with your initial comment? what was the point of typing out constructive criticism (although, some of it is definitely ableism), if you were going to undercut everything u said with the first sentence.

just wondering 😊

yes and i am talking about the women shaped ones

yeah that's very correct i think. which like i knew! but i feel duped!!

thank you!!!

cry about it

tbh its like not totally wrong that i have stuff i can work on! (NCs are the bane of my existence lmao)

but like, on the other hand, it feels like there's no appreciation when things are going well, and i am immediately targeted when things are not going well.

like, for example, i REALLY don't think it's appropriate for my skip level to complain about me because i asked EHS to look into a potential safety concern based on our history of electrical fires. granted, our products r designed to be flame retardant and self-extinguishing blah blah its the EMI stuff (which, granted, I didn't fully know about at the time).

but um, because i give a shit about our operators, I asked EHS to help look into stuff to help reduce safety risk. like specifically, i was asking about some of the "PPE" we wear (it doesn't protect us, it protects the machine).

EHS went to R&D to ask questions, bc EHS reaaaally wanted to believe that there's a way to easily design this out (not without redesigning the machine lmao), and R&D asked for clarification, which I provided, and then the whole issue was taken up by the product safety people suddenly because i think they thought that this was happening to fielded product.

like, the worst game of telephone imaginable, but it's all written down so I'm even more at a loss as to how this happened. anyway.

my skip level complained that he had to go to a meeting about the safety issues because i "sent an email".

which conveniently ignores EVERYTHING ELSE about this stupid situation, including EHS straight up punting their responsibilities.

but Iiiiiiii'm the problem. ykwim?

lmaooooo i know its uh. a bit of a cluster?

there is some discussion in this thread abt how men who r hard to work with still get hired because their skills r seen as valuable.

so to me it reads as a hypervisibility problem.

you know how women/ppl clocked as women who are multiply marginalized will stick out more and be punished more heavily for not conforming to whatever like the typical expected behaviors are? I constantly feel like I stick out. like not even on purpose. but I am constantly visible in a way that my peers aren't and I think the reason why is because it's interacting with my disability.

when a man shows absentminded professor behaviors hes an eccentric genius. when i do it, I'm lazy/not disciplined. when a man has criticisms and presents them aggressively or pursue them aggressively he's principled. i am a troublemaker. u see?

i will also say there r definitely some women at work I've clocked as potentially having adhd, but theyre older than me so i can't tell if they've learned to moderate their emotions better while i still am very uneven in my like. poker face, and i will have to run what i wanna say by them to figure out how to say it in corporate. or if I'm just legit struggling more socially bc i am also potentially autistic on top of the adhd which is making all of this worse.

WHAT IS A WOMAN SHAPE, SAVE FOR A PERSON WHO IS EXTERNALLY PERCEIVED AS A WOMAN LMAO.

THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO THINKS THAT WOMEN ONLY COME IN ONE SHAPE IS YOU.

I can't speak for everyone in this sub, but I, for one, do not hate trans people. Nor have I seen posts in this sub that are transphobic. I can come off a bit blunt, so please know that I am trying to help you.

I get the impression from your writing style that you are young. I think the backlash that you are receiving is 1. the comment on women's bodies in your title and 2. because your posts and responses read as arrogant.

To address point 1, I understand that you're non binary and why you prefer to say "woman shaped". Awesome, glad to have a nonbinary person here. The problem is the phrase "woman shaped." Here's why: women, for quite literally centuries, have tortured themselves to meet the mold of the "ideal shape." This could be through self harm like anorexia and bulimia, or in my case, working out to the point where you tear your joints to shreds. It's also seen in less serious forms through plastic surgery, padded bras, etc. The term "women shaped" reinforces the misogynistic, dehumanizing, and downright cruel ideology that you aren't a woman if you aren't a particular shape and that we only exist to look appealing. This, I believe, is where the majority of the backlash to your post is spawning from. Your responses to the backlash indicate that you don't understand the gravity of what you're saying when you use the phrase "woman shaped." I suggest saying "female presenting" in the future instead of "woman shaped." Again, the root of the issue here is the word "shape."

To address point 2, you talk about how amazing you are and how your one flaw is that you're messy. 1000% engineering is a misogynistic workplace and I imagine manufacturing is probably hell, but I encourage you to take a step back and look inward when it comes to your problems at work. Is there any area that you could improve in? How could you become a better engineer? We all have room for improvement at every level of our career. A company cannot function if its people don't get along. I.e. if you're brilliant at your job but a nightmare to be around, that's a problem. I'm not talking about a messy desk, I'm talking about social skills. I'm not saying you can't be yourself, but you can't be an asshat. I am not saying that you are an asshat, but the way you've been responding to some of these comments is...yikes. If you truly feel that there's no area of your professional life that you could improve in and that you're being unfairly discriminated against, then this is an issue that you need to take to HR or you should consider searching for a another job somewhere that will treat you better.

However, if you made this post because you just wanted to vent and commiserate about how fucked up the shit is that women deal with in the engineering industry, you shot yourself in the foot with your title by saying "women shaped."

Reddit is usually super pro trans and everything left wing agenda so the fact that you are still managing to come off as an asshole DESPITE your labels is not only impressive, but shows that you sincerely are in the wrong.

Reddit's biases for women, trans, gay folk, and POC couldn't help you here

A lot of these commenters suck ass and are making massive assumptions based on your phrasing, sorry this was received this way OP.

Also am also non-binary, and I thought the "woman shaped" thing was an apt, and funny way of specifying people who are perceived as female.

its so funny lmao, im literally like hello my boss's boss wants to literally punish me for my visible symptoms of my disability and everyone is like yeah thats cool.

like damn! whats wrong with yall.

LMAO I GET U

i will say i do tend to say that when im like oh shit i don't know the answer and i didn't think of that, so maaaybe its not intentional? but i can also totally understand how it would read that way, especially depending on the tone of how it was said.

one of my many character flaws in life is that uh, i grew up in a family culture where loud = right & therefore safe, and its something i stiiiiiill struggle with as far as like, trying to not be combative w ppl. its really hard!

I don’t think that sub will take to OP name calling and saying other people are “crazy” just because they disagree. Oh and OP decided if we didn’t agree with them, or pointed out name calling wasn’t okay, that we also hate trans and disabled people somehow.

I don’t think that’s going to go over well in any sub tbh.

lmao it honestly probably definitely is. especially bc this post was made after a convo where i cried (and i have issues with crying) so i was already feeling raw, and then ppl were dicks.

i appreciate the sub rec! i know i can definitely struggle with not just throwing up my hands at the neurotypicals (why do they need so much eye contact?????)

ill PM u abt the whole thing!!! im an ME but i love EEs

where did i say it was?

i have been talking about how i have visible symptoms of adhd which have been explicitly noted as reasons to pull me off of my product line, because a messy desk impedes product delivery somehow.

i.e., because i am clocked as a woman, there is less tolerance for me showing neurodiverse behaviors than someone clocked as a man.

this is why i used the term masking, if you are unclear.

Hi OP, I can understand the points you're trying to make, even if I disagree with the way you've responded to people in this thread. Still, I have to say I am a bit uncomfortable with invoking Crenshaw's work, which is rooted explicitly in the experiences of Black women and the interplay of racist misogyny and misogynistic racism, in a discussion that isn't centered on race/hasn't mentioned race at all. While the principles of intersectionality are universally applicable, it feels pretty inappropriate to try and directly apply the points Crenshaw makes without also addressing the racial dynamics they encompass; what I mean to say is that using it in contexts that do not directly engage with the racial issues at its core feels like a misuse of her work.

This isn't to diminish the importance of Crenshaw's contributions - I just think the discussion on gender and disability could benefit more from sources directly discussing these intersections so we can keep the conversation focused and respectful of the original contexts of the works mentioned.

I understand this may not have been your intention, but I hope this makes sense and doesn't come across as antagonistic.

that I'm a shitty person thing, bc it literally functions as a way to dismiss and erase my experiences.

I think the point people here are trying to make is that you come off as the type of person that is incapable of perceiving anything else but your own experiences, and that this makes you a very not-fun person to work/talk with.