CC ends the month of June with a near triple double, record breaking performance in a win. Rookie of the Month 🔒
ROTY.
That too!
Angel had a great month and will get it.
It should be noted though the Fever did go 7-4 this month. The Sky went 3-8.
I'm a CC>AR guy, but with setting the record I think AR should get it. I think CC's stats and W/L is should give her the reward in a normal circumstance. But AR deserves it with the double double record.
Angel has been so amazing. She plays BIGGER, way biggger, than her height and size. Pretty amazing.
I personally think Clark should get rookie of the month every month, because she has an inquantafiable Steph Curry-like gravitational pull (due to her jumper) that opens up so many opportunities for her teammates on a constant basis. Forget her 3pt %; having to guard her 5 feet in front of the three point line increases her teammates' shooting percentages because of the high percentage shots they get off of the spacing her presence provides.
You can predicate a reliable offensive system with high percentage shots on that alone.
She plays BIGGER, way biggger, than her height and size.
I understand why you're saying that, but at the same time, its hard for me to agree when she averages 0.2 blocks per game and her shooting is, generally, terrible (yes, she's had a few great shooting games, but it hasn't been consistent). You would expect someone that plays bigger than their size to be able to finish better and block more. That being said, I think she will develop that eventually and become a legit contender for MVP.
I've watched a few quarters of her. Not way too much. And looked at numbers. That was my assessment from that limited scope.
Has her finishing really been off?
I've been reading things about how her rebounding numbers are pumped by missing her own point blank shots. But I wasn't sure if that was just exagerration or not to build a fake negative narrative/public image of her skills against her.
There are so many political narratives flying around about clark and reese, even christie sides, so i don't know how to separate fact from fiction at times.
Ex. "Clark sucks because she has so many turnovers. Reese stinks and has fake rebounding numbers because she rebounds her own two foot misses. Christie Sides is a terrible coach bringing down Caitlin Clark who needs to be fired."
The rebounds off of her own misses are blown out of proportion, she does have a higher percentage than most people, but last I saw it was about 15% of her total rebounds were off her own misses which still makes her a fantastic rebounder even if you were to exclude them.
However, her shooting is absolutely abysmal for her position. Her TS%, which is the advanced stat most people look at for shooting, is 47.5%. That's ranked 103rd out of the 144 players in the league, and 45th out of 62 of all of the forwards in the league. It's also especially bad when you consider that she shoots over 80% of her attempts within 5 feet of the rim.
thanks.
you're right that's not so great.
i dislike narratives about clark and reese. you have a real analysis. and another real analysis is that both clark and reese have rookie hiccups that are fixable and they'll both do great. which don't deserve to be blown our of proportion into "one or hte other really sucks because of turnovers or shooting percentage" for political reasons.
Yeah no doubt, I like stats to support points but they definitely don't tell the whole story either. Both are definitely great players with some obvious weaknesses, which is more than expected as a rookie.
People who say rebounds off their own misses can look back at Jordan/Bird/Magic get their own rebound and throw up a miracle amazing shot and they cheered. Hell, if you want someone who cleaned up their own rebounds talk to Charles Barkley. They count. You keep at it. And the stats don't lie. She has more rebounds than shots
Depends on the board honestly, chasing after your own shot is of course great but if it's just that you're not finishing shots you easily should (like open shots that just bounce off the front of the rim back to your hands) those aren't really valuable. But those are the minority of her overall rebounds.
Yeah. She deserves recognition for sure.
She’s great at offensive rebounding her own misses
I really think it's only a matter of time before people wake up to the fact that Reese is only good on paper. Hoovering up uncontested defensive rebounds (because you're a post player and that's your job) and throwing 12 bricks to get yourself 10 points in another loss for your team is not what good basketball looks like.
She is good good. If it was easy to grab 10 reb a night, everyone would do it.
Only good on paper? What kind bad faith trolling ass nonsense is that?
I didn’t make it, so don’t ask me.
the same kind where a player can go 4-16 in thr 0-4 ft range and have their name in the ROTM conversation
She's literally one-dimensional. She scoops up rebounds from a position that's designed to scoop up rebounds.
She's not a rim protector at all, isn't an elite defender, not a great passer, and not an efficient scorer.
Like Rodman?
Not really. Rodman was a high percentage shooter until his last couple of seasons.
A Lotta dudes in the NBA have long careers being one dimensional. Just sayin'.
Bad Faith Poster above. Downvote and move on.
which of their points is incorrect?
Reese actually gets surprisingly few defensive rebounds compared to offensive.
The 8 rebounds a game CC gets are more like the ones you described. If it wasn’t her, whoever was playing her position would be getting them because they are uncontested.
Reese’s rebounds are really impressive. Granted, quite a few are her own misses which pads the stats, but I think it’s quite clear she is an elite rebounder.
Clark needs to be more selfish and shoot more and work on her high risk passes that aren’t working out. Sure, we can blame her teammates, but if they aren’t working, stop making them.
Angel is looking a lot better as of late. She used to try to jump into people and draw fouls while throwing up ridiculous looking shots assuming the foul call was coming. The last few games she is taking more focused shots down low trying to make them instead of just trying to get to the line, and it’s working.
One thing everyone needs to do though is stop trying to compare these two head to head. It’s like comparing a pitcher and an outfielder in baseball. They have completely different roles and contribute to their teams in completely different ways.
If she is only getting rebounds because she's a post, how is she leading the league in rebounds rn? Logically I would think, if her rebounds are PURELY because of her position and have nothing to do with skill or hustle, than a more experienced post would be getting more rebounds over a rookie who is "only good on paper". No?
I'm not saying that is has nothing to do with skill or hustle. But there are more rebounds in a game than there are other play types, such as assists, steals, blocks etc. And post players get most of the rebounds for a team. So scraping a double double isn't that unusual. Tina Charles averaged a double double in her first four seasons - if I'm counting right, 23 double double in her rookie season of 34 games . So yes, a streak of 10 is impressive, but it's not unprecedented.
I'm kind of curious, why are you passionate about undermining Angel's stats? Your comment history is packed with comments comparing her and Caitlin, and trying to prove a point that Angel is not effective or whatever.
Do you know her? Did she insult you to your face or something?
I'm not sure I understand why someone would take it upon themselves to disparage a young athlete so consistently lol.
I'm passionate about reality. And there is a malignant distortion of reality in the reporting of statistics and milestones. If I have any vendetta it is actually against the concept of a double double itself, it's just that almost all discussion about Reese is around that topic.
Her offensive rebounds are impressive, and when she gets hot, so is her scoring. I'm not a fan of Reese, both because I've found her media facing personality abrasive, and because I don't find the way she plays the game particularly exciting.
And before you accuse me of being a Clark stan - I'm actually a Vanloo stan - one of the rookies who never gets talked about because of the obsession with Reese's soft double double streak. Did you know that normalized for time spent on the court, **Vanloo leads the league in assists**? Of course, not, because "double doubles" are simpler to understand.
It literally was unprecedented! That’s what setting a record means
I wouldn't go that far, she's a great rebounder she's just very limited offensively in a way that's been surprising given her college success (in which she had limited range but was way, more efficient in the paint)-- she's like Andre Drummond was with the Pistons.
The blocks thing is just weird, she hustles on defense so it's just odd that she has a BPG average more fitting an undersized guard
You can't add a rebound to the tally if you block the shot first.
(I jest, but that game against the Lynx - I genuinely believe she was playing for the stat-line, not the result.)
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You can just say you've never seen her play. It's okay
10 double doubles and 3-7. Stat stuffing icon who doesn't help her team win.
Yeah the LEAGUE LEADING REBOUNDER doesn't help her team win. Go back to your cave 😂
3-7.
Nah she was 1 rebound away from rookie of the month
😂 😂 You're probably right, tbh. I wad so bummed they didn't sub her back in.
She needed to go full Westbrook in the 4th. 😅
Nah, full Ricky Davis!
Fellow former Hawkeye, Ricky Davis!
My cousin was his roommate their freshman year. Who was the starting pg that year.
I don't suppose that was Dean Oliver??? I grew up about 45 minutes from the HS he went to. Went to a few basketball camps where he made an appearance!
Yes! Never thought that random redditor would know who that was. Holy shit lol.
🤣 well this one does! He was my favorite Hawkeye as a kid because he was local!
He had a good career at Iowa, really. If you didn't know, he's coaching at Wisconsin now.
I grew up in Sioux City so I had so many heated debates on Kirk Hinrich VS Dean.
I went to the same middle school as Ricky (years later) and his first dunk at age 12 in the school gym is a local legend
Ricky's vertical is seriously under appreciated. Dude had major bounce.
Same, but at the same time, she'd played every minute up until then. The game was pretty much over after that last turnover by the Mercury. Sucks she couldn't get that last rebound, but it was good to let her finally rest.
And I just read she was playing with a migraine
She shot 28%, she was good but she was not the reason the Fever won this game
She was responsible for half of Indianas points either from scoring or assists
Her passing was elite today, she was dog tired esp in Q4 and she would have been better if she got 5-8 mins of rest each game. But then her stats wouldn't look so good.
45% TS, which yes is bad, she had a bad shooting night. But can we please stop using FG%...
Considering they were guarding her like it was the wnba finals + she had a bad migraine, it’s insane what she did
You don’t know basketball.
Assists equate to points. Rebounds may or may not.
cc was responsible for 44 out of 88 points today and had 9 rebounds
stop boring us with amazing facts
I'm more underwhelmed by Angel because of her horrible shooting percentage because she mostly takes shots in the paint and is jacking them up with volume.
Roty clearly
That part! Month, year, decade!
I think this “competition” and chatter is good for the WNBA. You know who cares about player of the month in the NBA? No one.
Lmao, go on the internet and ask people if Melo was robbed of Rookie of the Year... People care when it's a polarizing star involved.
Rookie of the year and player of the month aren’t the same thing.
Sure but this post is about "Rookie of the Month" not player of the month, so I thought you made a typo. And the argument in the NBA is always that Melo won more ROTM but lost ROTY. So people care still.
But if you really meant Player of the Month, then yeah I agree with you. But it's a weird nonsequitar if that's really what you meant.
My bad I did not know that there was even a rookie of the month award , I assumed it was player of the month. I still think it’s good for the WNBA to get the chatter but that does make it as meaningless as an nba player of the month or rookie of the month award(if they also have this award) . Is there a sixth man / woman player of the month award ( please god let the answer be no)
She was so close. Side note tho what’s up with Brittney Griner and Natasha Cloud? That whole team some crash outs😭
Griner had 24 points today on 61% shooting and 80% FT. A fantastic game for her overall.
She played well I meant the tech on AB. Pushed her for no reason
Also some unnecessary elbows on screens, imo, that didn't get called (disclaimer, I didn't think they should get called, but I could see a whistle happy ref calling it)
Multiple times I saw BG throw an elbow towards CCs throat and shove her on screens.
I think Reese will win ROTM I think (?) but boy that triple double would’ve been a banger … I’m sure she’ll get it sometime this season
Fever overall, better month.
Reese player of the month.
It's hard to try and downplay 10 double doubles. Those are crazy numbers. Clark really needed a killer game to steal it.
Is 1 rebound shy of a triple double not a killer game?
If she wasn't such a defensive liability she probably would have gotten that last rebound. But alas she needs to be subbed out in crunch time.
She gets the triple double. Sure. Otherwise, not enough to overcome all those double doubles.
Ad AR stats have increased her team winning percentage has plummeted. Dropping out of the playoffs at the end of the month and being rewarded for it is crazy in a team sport.
Yeah but ain’t the first time 🤷
This mentality is so crazy… Reese is a great rebounder. Possibly the best offensive rebounder already in the league (she does get a lot of chances though and has another solid player next to her that draw attention).
But CC is an all-around better player. They can both be having a great rookie seasons. They are both breaking records. It’s just weird that double-doubles are so rare in the WNBA. I only watched the last few minutes of the Sky game to see if she would get the 10 points and her team did EVERYTHING they could to keep that streak alive. In all honesty, her shooting so much is probably to the detriment of her team. She isn’t a good shooter. If she becomes one, she will be a top 5-10 player in the league easily
We’re talking about one month of performance. And during that month, Reese set a rookie double-double record. Sorry, I think CC is def the better all around player, Reese just had a better month. 🤷♂️
I’m responding to your mentality about double doubles. Does getting that last point today make Reese’s game better? No. But it kept a streak alive. Just like CC grabbing another board doesn’t matter to the game she had but the headlines would have been insane. Also, they could have just gave her a rebound for the triple double. They didn’t. However, the Sky made damn sure Reese got that streak
It’s a game. None of it really matters in the end. lol. This is a rookie of the MONTH conversation. Everybody chill.
Is absolutely not an all around better player. Elite range, plus passer, shes on pace to break the all time single season turnover record on the next 4-5 games, she’s one of the worst defenders in the league.
No part of Reese’s game is as bad as Clark’s turnovers or defense. Her shooting isn’t where it should be, but it’s a lot better than it was
Lmao what an amazing take
You don’t watch games. Cool. She’s not a good defender. But surely not close to one of the worst.
Clark isn't nearly as bad on defense as some of you(who clearly don't watch) want to believe. Angel's shooting is truly horrific. The fact that she has literally zero range and has to play the 4 because she isn't tall enough for the 5 is a huge detriment to the sky on Offense due to horrible spacing.
OK, you're biased to Reese, that's fine.
No part of Reese’s game is as bad as Clark’s turnovers or defense.
Since we're cheery picking things, Reese's shooting is dogshit. Also CC is matching AR in both blocks and steals.
Reese is a post player. It is common to grab rebounds and have double doubles.
Clark is the only rookie GUARD to get more than one double double in a season.
You’re box score watching crazy
How is the decision actually made?
Wnba employees decide basically.
I still think AR probably has that it could go either way. Reese had an excellent month. With that said....my girl here is HER.
Reese has been great and has made this an interesting race, but Clark should win ROTM and ROTY is hers to lose imo. Numbers aside, her ability to make plays for both herself and her teammates and the gravity she possesses even when she's just standing there alone outweighs what Reese brings. I don't say that to knock Reese who has been surprisingly good, but they have two completely different roles and Clark's role carries more weight.
ROTM is not a lock. Reese has had a crazy good month.
and gone 3-8 in that span. if you only watch box scores though, yeah maybe.
Your definition of lock and mine apparently are different. Definitely this game helped her along in staying right there in contention though.
Angel Reese is gonna win Rookie of the Month for June, bur Clark may win for July we shall see
Setting a record for consecutive double-doubles probably gives it to Reese this month.
Both have been great this month!
I've never seen so many obsessed with ROTM
Agreed.last year no one cared this much.
Love CC and she’s had a hell of a month but rookie of the month belongs to Angel in June
statistically it does not
Yeah, it’s hard to deny Reece this month.
CC looked awesome in this game can't wait to see more from her!
Is it super close this month. Hell yes. Should it go to Reese. Also yes. Just like some other discussions where things are good for the game, Reese winning is too.
Not saying she didn't earn that shit, more like if it's close ofc you give it to the person who hasn't won it yet. Good for exposure for other players, good for fans of other teams.
And it's great to have multiple players with legit cases for these things. Depth is great!
This. I’m a new W fan but in other sports I watch it’s never about who is the best player (alone).
I think when you have a great month AND something notable happens (in this case a record) then you have to give it to that person.
Nah, I don't think she's getting rookie of the month, but Sides definitely should've at least had her on the court to possibly get that triple double because why tf not? It was right there, she can rest later lol.
I thought it was smart keeping her on the sidelines , who cares about some meaningless stats. They got the W.
It was one rebound and she’d already played 39 mins lol. And I don’t think she’s the worst at defending either, so what was one more minute?
I think someone said she was sick tho, so fair enough, take her out.
Calling it a lock seems crazy with Reese getting the 10 double doubles. Her records are probably poising for a better shot at ROTY so far, though.
CC SHOULD win, but you're right that the PR machine will hand it to Reese
Need someone with more focus than me to create a post showing CCs and Angels June stats lol.
Per game averages for June
Points/FG%/REB/AST/STL/BLK
CC: 15/40.6%/6.09/7.18/1.45/.63
AR: 14.5/41.5%/13.18/1.81/1.63/.18
Appreciate it!
FG% in 2024 in crying
You could just share the TS% instead of being a baby
If you showed me these stats without names and only said P1 is a guard and P2 is a big, I'd probably say P1 had a slightly better month, mostly due to the FG%. But knowing AR literally set a WNBA record she deserves RotM.
I think sharing is caring and Reese should still be ROTM because she’s been great this month and deserves it
Angel Reese should get Rookie of the Month. Im a CC fan but Angel has been playing very well!
Bruh let's be real lol
Not even close, that goes to (Wnba) record holder and (Wnba) not rookies rebounding leader AR easily.
she will win ROTY 100%, but AR should get this ROTM. Honestly how amazing are both of them, awe!
Rookie of the year.
Wish they would have left her in at the end to grab one more rebound. Almost doesn't count.
I’m a huge CC fan, but this month it goes to Reese. The double-double record is huge.
Early years?
Reese's pieces in shambles
my girl CC is balling but ROTM belongs to Reese sadly.
Sadly? :/
CC has done a great job of pulling her team out of the mud, and is doing it with a worse coach and supporting cast of players...so yes I wanted Cait to be rewarded for that.
but AR has been a force though and cannot be denied.
Weatherspoon might actually be a worse coach than Sides.
the lies you tell!
Reese post was getting too much attention huh? 😂😂
Reese is going to get it for her double double streak and leading the league in rebounds. That is fair.
It should be noted that Clark out scored while shooting a much better efg, was among the league leaders in asst, was one of the best rebounding guards in the league.
The Fever also went 7-4. The Sky went 3-8.
Again, Reese will win it and that is fine. However, both players have a case.
Mods deleted all of the Caitlin ones, so it was by default.
Angel should focus on wins instead of individual stats though. They won more when she was scoring less 🤷🏾♂️
Angel prolly will get it. CC is the better player but expectations are a real thing lol and angel has out performed those expectations
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6d
Congrats to her? I’m not sure why she being mentioned when the post is about CC 😅
bro chill no need to spam disney villain ass comments 😭
She losing though. You play to win the game... Hello?!
And she beats her rival, moves her team into the playoffs, while Angel loses to Aja and falls out of the playoffs...
You bring up Angel for what, why are you so bitter. The Sky at this point get to draft Azzi Fudd, so I’ll take missing the playoffs if my team get a lottery pick in another historic draft.
Bring up Angel because it's COMPETITION literally... And they are the top 2 competitors...
Comparing isn't hating. Stop being soft lol. It's sports. Plenty of actual hate in this sub.
Check the Angel thread and no one is talking about CC because the celebration of 1 player doesnt mean you have to tear down another. But fans like you dont understand that. Dont you realize you make it harder for CC to get sympathy from vets and other players fans. She was so sad at a postgame saying people dont give her advice and here you are showing the behavior to why players didnt.
Unless I'm mistaken, the AR thread was about her accomplishment. This one is about a title that both AR and CC are in competition for. It makes sense to bring up AR when talking about ROTM, especially when she's probably going to win it.
And Sides gets a contract extension.
Hope you're wrong about Sides, but yeah. She probably stays on if the Fever hang on to the 8th seed 😔
Eww, if that's even close to happening after the season, CC needs to have a little one-on-one with Herb and company before any decision is made.
Bruh, chill. They are both two amazing rookies. They are literally balling. Let’s stop this hating mentality and let them just compete.
Yeah, I would think the two of them wish each other success, except when their teams play against each other. This year's fan bases seem like NHL or NFL fan bases. Maybe it's healthy for the sport. Intensity is better than apathy, that's for sure.
Point out where I hate! It's literally a competition and I'm COMPARING. Plenty of Caitlin hate in the sub, and I know you aren't commenting asking for those to stop. So what are you really mad about?
Angel gets just as much hate as CC and you’re apart of the problem. This is such a bait post for hate.
Angel gets way more hate than Caitlin does. One trip to social media regarding an Angel post,you will see more hateful and racist comments.
Not so much for posts about Caitlin.
Comparing 42y/o Tarausi to A’ja Wilson 💔💔
When she hates in the off-season she's 🎭 GOAT. When she loses to a rookie she's "42"
She's not too old to talk, so she's not too old to walk
Please quote what Taurasi said that was hating, cause I thought we went over this
This sub logic:
"Saying CC is better than Angel is hating! Just let them play!"
"How is Diana saying Paige is better than CC hating? It's sports! Don't be soft!"
That's really the hill you're dying on? Must be exhausting to want to be a victim so bad
She wasn't playing who y'all think is her rival lol. Why do y'all do this?
Almost had a quadruple double if you include turnovers.
She leading the league in turnovers and still has a better assist to turnover ratio than Angel! That's nasty 😂
Trying to compare the assist of a power forward and a point guard is a fantastic way to show you don’t know basketball.
Comparing asst/turnover ratio isn't doing that, but if you actually knew basketball you'd know that.
And y'all Reese's pieces are doing the same thing comparing her rebounds to a point guard 🤷🏾♂️
I have literally never done that so you can take that somewhere else.
Ratios are ratios. CC is on the ball every possession and gives it away 6 times a game. That’s more damaging than the 1.8 times Reese does it from the paint.
You’ve never watched basketball before. Elite playmakers who try high value passes will always have high turnovers
John Stockton had a 3.72 ast/to ratio. But maybe his passes weren’t high-value enough for you.
She’s a good player, she’s having a great year, but you zealots lose all credibility when you twist yourselves into knots to avoid saying she gives the ball away too much.
Stockton isn’t a top 10 passer ever. You clearly haven’t watched any Stockton games if you’re gassing him up.
You clearly don’t understand shit about assists and turnovers.
Stockton isn’t a top 10 passer? Stockton who has 3,000 more assists than any other player ever isn’t a top 10 passer?
You know I said John Stockton, right?
I just happened upon this...but them saying the player who currently is the career leader in assists and average double digit assists is not a top 10 passer is asinine and shows a clear lack of knowledge...
15/6/7 for June is not a "near triple double". lmao.
For the game she was 15/9/12.
Sorry the RoTM at the end threw me off. One game does not make RoTM a lock. And the record is a franchise record, typically that's noted when discussing records.
I think Reese deserves ROTM. But If Caitlin got the triple double she would have been the first rookie in WNBA history.
She's been the best rookie this month by far
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