Hell yeah! Hope you have fun!
I am, grinding for the Paris! I went into air and notched one missile before giving up, so until I undo my skill issue I’m probably just gonna stick to ships since they’re quite fun
Ha, just wait until you get top tier
Dont See the Problem
This update made me avoid the 3.3 naval BR bracket. Always love stunt flying and naval is the home of the risky bombing run but I tap out at the 3.3 Strela. The hell is a Wellington supposed to do against that
you've got turrets for a reason
I’m dog shit at air so as a old wow vet I enjoy navel a lot
Don't forget that there's a boat with strelas and one with MIM surface to air missiles with a range of 18km
I think both were at 4.7
"Realistic multipathing" the multipathing we have in game isn't even realistic. Inverse monopulse seekers (for example the seeker on the aim7m) solved the problem with multipathing so they should be immune to it. And the 60m we have in game is just as unrealistic as 100m. Some radar missiles can ignore multipathing and some can only work 1000m of the ground irl. So this change was done to change the meta and the way people play, not to make it more realistic.
Yeah its so stupid that they made EVERY radar missile have the same multipathing altitude. Just make all the missiles have their actual characteristics and balance the BRs accordingly.
That would take time and effort tho
and probably classified info
You say that like it’s an obstacle for this community
Seriously just ask on the forums and put a drop box link.
State secrets in 3,2,1...
can someone explain? is this on top tier?
TLDR radar missiles have always been extremely powerful but didn't work when you're at low altitude. Previously this altitude was 100m so everybody flew low to avoid them, but this update reduced it to 60m. This is an enormous buff to radar missiles, and combine that with the addition of long range and extremely powerful fire and forget radar missiles (Fox-3) it's been hell. Nobody knows how to avoid radar missiles so everybody just trades missiles and dies immediately.
Also people who have to stock grind new jets without Fox-3 missiles or chaff while facing jets that DO have Fox-3 missiles.
I played like two games and quit. Fuck that shit. I got the Gripen A, I fly it in customs, I'm happy. Not touching top tier until they fix it.
Most people interested in bvr know how to dodge these missiles though, with how they're implemented as of now (very susceptible to chaff) fox 3 are easier to dodge than an r27 er for instance, this is due to people launching from far away making the missile less quick when it gets to you and the afore mentioned resistance to chaff.
So like irl?
It has some elements of IRL combat. 16v16 or even 12v12 is so laughably far off of realistic combat that I think we can take some liberties with multipathing for the sake of gameplay.
Luckily I have spent too much time flying lower than 50m, so this hasn't affected my play style too much, unluckily I'm still an idiot that uptiers starfighters c variants to 12.7. So I am still at a disadvantage.
Top tier air, yes
Lucky me ( I dont play air at all )
"Everyone who likes playing ground battles in Air RB" more like
This is the air equivalent of people who wanted that dumbass stun mechanic they proposed expect it actually got added
Stuns would've made GRB unbearable
There's a pretty vocal subset of air players who are now asking for spotting to be removed because that's a good idea that totally wouldn't backfire so incredibly hard it might actually kill the mode
Air RB has been dead to me ever since I touched Ground RB XDDD, I know the rewards are cool and all but on lower BRs sideclimbing for a millenium is the only viable option and higher BRs is just an extremelly compressed shitshow
you shouldnt side climb in every plane tho
Ik, I'm just generalising because I mained (Now retired air rb player) Germany and USA in air rb, got to 8.0 then just went onto ground rb because target destroyed dopamine hit
Air AB is right there. Everyone gets airspawns and you can respawn. Also you can do a flip in a Lancaster or make a 5 second u-turn by popping landing flaps at 500kph.
Neither of those are good ideas mind you, but the ability to do it is fun.
Air AB is super fun on lower BR.
I still don't get what y'alls problem is with stun.
80% of the time you are dead anyway after getting penned due to the 100% realistically modelled and perfectly implemented APHE mechanic
Edit: add a caliber threshold and the autocannon problem is solved
It would make stuff like BTRs broken as fuck
True, you could add a caliber threshold tho
As if gaijin would do that
The game isn't just midtiers it would be extremely enoing it you survive that is is gaijin even implements it correctly (they will most definitely fuck it up somehow
like I said in the other comment you didn't decide to read. Just add a caliber threshold to 70mm or something similar. Or make it just adjust to BR
Like I said the game isn't just midtiers being penetradet by heat or apfsds doesn't mean death in a lot of cases
Okay and? That makes stun even more important. Especially or APshitR
How about we remove multipathing from GRB and restore it to it’s former glory in ARB? Win win
I’m a ground player but I’ve also got shit.
I get why the PUMA got a internals update but god damn is it annoying eating the worst aimed shell ive seen in my life scrape the side of my turret, and I lose vertical, horizontal and my IRST/LSR
Can confirm, I am now unstoppable in the Tornado. I do not think it was a good idea.
I feel like a year ago war thunder was actually bearable and not that many premiums in every br bracket
A year ago it was still bad, that's around when I stop playing concerning amounts of warthunder
Not really. When you really think about it, the only giga-meta premiums that have been added in the last year are the VIDAR and the Type 90B.
Turm 3, 2S38, F5C, Su-11, etc have all been in the game for years.
I think I started playing in 2012(?). Started playing closed beta of world of warships in 2014. Both games have gone to shit
It’s certainly better than this brain dead IRCCM furball deck hugging meta we have had for too long, was no fun just dying to a random unspotted enemy and missile that’s barely 2km away.
Additionally all the issues with the current state of air RB are issues that have been prevalent for years now, terrible maps, teams too big, shitty ticket bleed, people being limited to 1 runway to spawn and therefore 1 area where fights take place. The issue isn’t multi pathing it’s the more core aspects of air RB which have been unchanged since 2018 and are therefore outdated
I totally agree with you, if they would drop it to like 6v6 or even 10v10 but with distributed in air spawns the game mode would be so much more fun, it would actually let you use BVR tactics
totally agree
At least the IR missiles you can lead into flares fairly easily if you know what your doing. Some of the maps that are mostly dunes (mainly Sinai) you stand little chance if you don't immediately sideclimb and start preemptively skating, because hugging those dunes close enough to multipath is pretty much impossible in my experience. Maps, teams, ticket bleed, etc, are still a fustercluck too though, don't get me wrong.
At least the IR missiles you can lead into flares
Only when you’re actually aware your being shot at, the spotting system was so completely fucked you could get within 1.5km of an enemy, unspotted, launch your IRCCM missile and be actively engaging someone else before you popped up on mini map or at a glance even if you had a fully ace crew. That’s completely horrible gameplay
The exact same thing can be done with the FOX 3s, I know because I've both done it and had it done to. Except, again, this time you cannot flare it. If the same situation happens but they launch a fox 3, it'll go pitbull instantly, meaning they can still just launch, turn around, and engage someone else, only now your RWR is gonna start screaming "GG, you're fucked buddy" for the last few seconds your alive.
Bro this update made me play props more
this made me play tanks alot more
I’m (relatively) new and I haven’t played WarThunder in a few days, so I’m out of the loop here. What’s multipathing?
I don't know myself but from googling the term it seems to be something to do with the way Active Radar Missiles guide.
In the context of the game it is the height at (or lower to) which you had to fly so that radar missiles lose almost all their effectiveness. Essentialy they would just start aiming at the ground in front of your plane instead of your plane. Although it stops working if the radar which you are being locked with is way higher than you (the angle between your speed vector and radar "ray" is closer to 90 degrees).
It was 100 meters before so you could just fly licking the ground and be almost immune to radar missiles from enemies on ~~ the same altitude as you and would be immune from most active radar missiles since they are usually launched from far enough that they intersect your trajectory at a relatively sharp angle.
Now that it has been changed to 60 meters, you almost never can hide from missiles like that due to map elevation changes, actually needing to maneuver or because trees on some maps are like 75 meters tall so you quite literally can not go lower than 75 meters.
It is not really a GaMe BrEaKiNg change, but it causes gameplay to be generally slower because now it is mandatory to notch these missiles if you don't want to die so if enemies spammed half of american defence budget worth of AMRAAMs you kinda have to just fly perpendicular to the battlefield for 5 minutes waiting for all the missiles to miss.
And unless people stop being dumb, F14As would continue to get like 4 - 5 Phoenix kills in the beginning of the match on all the lemmings who always beeline it to the nearest ground base and always get clapped on the way because they can't dodge by just going low anymore. I researched F15 very fast thanks to them, 2 free kills 1 in every 2 matches is very nice.
Because of the way the radar reflects off of objects when a plane is in close proximity to them. The radar signal from the plane/missile sending the signal reflects off of the enemy and then off of the ground and back to the receiver, or off the ground and to the target then back. This "confuses" the radar and causes it to misalign with the actual target because it's essentially trying to target 2 things at once.
People are upset because multipathing used to be an overpowered means of avoiding death by simply flying low to the ground, making radar missiles useless in many scenarios. If someone were on the deck and they saw someone above them, they could simply raise their nose, acquire a radar lock, launch, and then immediately return to the deck, and any missile fired in return would have no chance of hitting them while they bag a free kill.
In reality, the primary people upset about the multipathing change are likely people who abused it because they lacked the knowledge to actually effectively engage in BVR combat. I'm not going to lie, I definitely used it to my advantage almost every game, because it would be a handicap not to. But now those same people who got in the habit of flying straight into the enemy without a care because multipathing will protect them from any radar missiles are now feeling the pain because you actually have to use your brain if you want to get kills while keeping yourself alive.
I don’t think multipathing would make things any different. Maps just need to be reworked so there’s more elevated terrain to hide in. Mountainous maps feel okay at FOX-3 territory, the flat maps are shit
Has anybody else noticed more and more air spawns??? I got 16 in a row pretty much today. And at the br I’m trying to grind (British phantom FG.1) for the new FOX 3 carrying harrier. I’m just getting killed within 3 minutes by AIM-54s. And even if I fly low, the missile hits the floor and explodes under me, killing me anyway! And for some reason no matter how much I attempt to notch, I get killed every single time
This is unironically Gaijin trying to tell you to stop deck hugging as a crutch. Learn to notch, crank, and go cold.
Multipathing is less effective the higher the angle of the missile anyways.
The problem is all the 12.3 jets that have no way to fight back against ARH missiles. SARH and IRCCM against Fox-3’s is fucking stupid. Yeah let me notch, crank, and go cold on every launch towards me, but doing that in a 12.3 stops you from actually fighting back against the other team. Good luck keeping a radar lock or getting within range to use your IRCCM. Multipathing would be fine at 60m if trees weren’t twice the size they were irl. It really should be 60m from the nearest ground clutter aka the tops of the trees, but Gaijin uses ground level and gives us 100m tall trees.
I agree the gap between SARH and ARH jets is something that need to be fixed, probably with a BR gap for cold war and post cold war jets, similar to what they did with WW2 and post-war vehicles in Germany (and I think other tech trees but I can't remember)
i feel like people are pissing and shitting themselves over ARH missiles because they can’t be bothered to look up how to defeat them; and would rather just fly in a straight line close to the ground. if you have good positioning, can bleed their energy, manoeuvre them into the ground or break line of sight, fox 3s are not that hard to defeat.
Fox 3 missles are not the problem nor is it the multipathing... its the map size, lack of objectives, team sizes, and match durations those are what makes this game mode horrible
You know you could learn how to defeat missiles instead of relying on the multipathing crutch
If I wanted a hyper realistical missile fighting experience I would be playing DCS, but I don't and Franky most people who play this game don't.
There's absolutely such a thing as to much realism and the response that the community has had to the multipathing changes definitely lead me to believe they've overstepped the line
Actually the radar simulation in DCS is worse than in War Thunder. I'm not trying to play the same boring ass deck-hugging meta for the rest of my life, because that's what kills a game. It's the same thing that killed World of Tanks. They add extremely broken vehicles and then the meta sits stagnant for 4+ years and now their player base is shrinking year by year.
I just don't understand why you think it's too much to ask to simply turn around and fly cold for 10 seconds before you turn back around. Because in most cases that's literally all you have to do to evade these missiles. It really sounds to me like a lot of people would be better off playing arcade, because if they can't zoom to the enemy and get right in their face and have an HMD boxing match then they can't do anything.
because that's what kills a game.
So do major meta shocks, that are very unpopular a topical example is fornite which has had a massive drop in player count after the introduction of the car meta so much so it's had to rush out a new LTM and layer several nerfs to cars inorder to try and regain popularity
It really sounds to me like a lot of people would be better off playing arcade,
Oh it is 20x worse in ab since the am120 does what the am9m did on steroids, if you don't have am120 you effectively can't fight people with am120s because even if you can dodge the first 120, you won't dodge the 2nd headon, and even if you do, you have so little energy that you'll die to am120 number 3. they don't have the same anti spawn lock feature aircraft and IR missiles due so you can die less then 1 second after spawning because an 120 that missed someone else locks you. They also can spawn lock people at the beginning of games and get 2-3 kills on players who have no physical way to avoiding the 3 120s
My main argument against multipathing is that there's no point in using radar missiles when everyone is just going to keep flying on the deck, making the missiles useless. That's how I grinded the entire British tree in the Phantom FGR 2. Even being one of the worse Phantoms in terms of flight performance, I still absolutely farmed people in it because I abused the shit out of multipathing while flying straight into the entire enemy team and spamming flares. Anyone who flew above me would eat a skyflash instantly, and their only chance of killing me was to try and get off a front aspect IR missile which inevitably went for the flares. The point is that I was basically invincible, and to mention that I managed a 3 K/D while doing this nearly every single game just shows how overpowered multipathing was. Furthermore, what I was doing took basically zero skill. The hardest part was making sure I didn't crash into the ground while pressing radar lock and launching missiles.
This exactly why I flew F4EJ kai more than F15J, Multipathing was broken. But now fighing ARH with IR missiles is hard. But that more problem of BR compression(imagine if we have proper BR decompression instead of Mig15 having the same br as R2Y2)
Update is ok we had worse
When
I played for 4 years and they made some ass update in the last year the only one I never complained is the economy change
The premium update for example the add the click bait and f up the sounds
"Premium update" You mean the lasts 4-5 updates?
The sound have never been this bad from what ive experienced
In all the years ive played war thunder i struggle to remember a update this buggy and the feeling its hella rushed.
But remember when we could not even play some tanks because of the repair price
Ofc, how can one forget. But the economy changes before the May review bombings was slowly added so we wouldnt notice.
I am certain they are figuring a way to do that right now still. Slimey as always
To me it feels like every update since may last year has been getting worse. And even if it is they are working on stuff from the roadmap, im sure the reason alot of the changes "takes time" its a way for them to turn it to a monkeys paw. Like they always do...
True
This makes no sense since Multipathing right now is in no way realistic.
Me when everyone just bitches and moans about not being able to have their 16v16 irccm furballs anymore and actually have to learn how to notch and defend properly
11.7 is amazing rn
What if historic matchmaking was a different mode to the main game?
You have arcade and realistic. Maybe keep simulator the way it is or make simulator realistic.
Or just add "Historic Realistic" to make life fair to those who hate and love the idea
You could absolutely do this, infact it would be great for us to get new modes but
That would require multi queueing which we don't have and which might not be possible in the current game due to coding baggage
Someone get this to someone higher up, can't believe the SnaiL never thought of it
I think they should just get rid of flat maps at top tier and the problem would be mostly solved. I've been in quite a few dogfights after the update
As one smart man with an unpronounceable name said: Missles don't go through mountains
I’m loving the change, America owns the skies now. F-15C is a menace. Also been seeing more diversity in gameplay, some still stick to the ground, but I’m seeing more at mid-high alt.
This update had made me play more low tier than ever before.
Oh hey, you attracted all the people who used multipathing as a crutch and never learned there are other ways to lose a radar missile.
"I hate having to worry about positioning and maneuvers, I just wanna dive and win instantly. Everyone ever agrees with me because of how good I am!" They collectively screech.
I should quit being smug though, and write up a guide or something.
Multipathing works the same as before per datamines, just lower.
The issue is that we had way less missiles to avoid and people use it as a crutch. Multipathing is not a zone of invulnerability. If your assailant positions themselves to not generate a reflections, you're still going to die. I.e. top-down shots which are some of the more common ones with lofting AAMs
Dunno about air but I need to relearn sounds every patch and it makes me mildly infuriated. Sounds are more impactful tho so I don't complain too much. Sometimes it feels like I hear different engines every patch.
Requests: -Reduced multipathing effect -Reduced team sizes
And then the monkeys paw curled
Gaijin: -Implements multipath reduction -Implements reduced team sizes as a chance option like night battles, rendering it semi-useless.
Now we have the clusterfuck you just want to avoid when possible...
ah yes nothing as realistic as a ground reflection of a target still above the fucking horizon
the brainrot became even more more brainrot, would not have thought this to be possible
the problem isnt multipathing its the quantity of players in these matches.
like if it was realistically an option for you to turn cold and fight strategically multipathing wouldn't need to exist, idiots would just die to flying in a straight line.
the core of the problem is there are too many fucking people in matches and it takes all thought and strategy out of the equation, its instead just a shit show of missiles flying in every direction and people from both sides in every direction.
honest to god after wwii maybe early jets like korean era jets, the games need to drop down to 8v8 max
Skill issue
I'm out of the loop I only play under 8.0 what even is multipathing.
I just know that supposedly if you want to evade a radar missile you are supposed to dive and switch direction to make the missile lose energy and go low and cold, im the same direction of the missile, all while chaffing. Yeah it doesn't work because war thunder decided so, most of the times if you get an ARH missile alert you're simply dead.
I think the biggest problem is the stock grind and planes that don't have ARH missiles seeing planes that do. Besides that i'd say skill issue
At least you can get a flight stick from it if you get lucky
I have written a guide to dealing with your missile problem
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1dm933z/a_guide_to_evading_fox3_and_decent_fox1_missiles/
I mean, ngl, it’s kinda funny watching everybody die and weed out the shit players from those who actually know how BVR works. Sure you gotta go cold for like, half the match but at least it’s nearly a guaranteed win if the opponent does nothing but sling and you have a competent teammate with you.
Nah get good
They just meed to makes teams smaller and remove non ec maps from top tier
Nah you just suck, I have no issues with doing with fox 3s
I just want cas to have no 3rd person view, no markers and the first hundreds of meters from spawn being protected by AA
Honestly its "People who wanted better missiles than sparrows"
It was great before the F14 got added. No toptier premiums, (highest were around 9.0 Br mostly with a few exceptions) it was balanced and actually fun, no good all aspect missiles, and you actually needed skill to get kills instead of lock and launch simulator we have today
Play DCS and learn the ways of Fox 3 BVR lol. Notching, cranking, and low alt is basically the only way you’ll live. Chaff is largely useless
wdym chaff is useless
I’m not even joking this update made me become a naval player