Veronica and Logan

17d

I think they used to be friends “a long time ago”. Sorry, couldn’t help myself!

Like in the limo episode they were clearly playful, flirty (in a way that made me think if Lilly and Duncan weren’t in their lives that they could have for sure been a thing). But, yeah, I was under the impression that they were friends before Lilly’s death when they used to hang out together.

I think that when they first shared that kiss, there was attraction and a level of understanding each other in a way others didn’t and couldn’t, but it was still pretty toxic. On my most recent rewatch, them getting together did feel sudden and then it felt like Logan was SO in. Sometimes I wonder if his abandonment issues were at play, too.

17d

Haha!

It would make sense, but from those scenes I got the sense that Veronica kinda just put up with him because he was Lilly's bf and Duncan's bestie. I got the impression that if it weren't for Duncan or Lilly, she wouldn't have hung around him, but I could be wrong. I'm about halfway through season 2 so I'm sure there's much more for me to uncover.

Dangerous_Usual_6590

17d

Logan explicity says that Veronica was Lilly's friend, but she was his friend too, and he felt betrayed when Veronica went to Lilly without thinking how that would affect him, too. That's not something you think/feel for someone you just hung around occasionaly because you have friends in common.

They have known each others since they were kids, way before they started dating Lilly or Duncan.

17d

True. I forgot about that. I wasn't as focused on their history and disliked Logan until they got together and he started being an actually decent person.

I forgot they grew up together as well, especially given their parents history, granted that was more the Kane's than the Echolls. I think because the show starts off after everything has happened, it makes me think they've only known each other for the few years prior and not an entire generation before. It could also be that I'm about halfway through season 2 so there's still a lot of things I haven't learned yet.

I'm looking forward to doing a rewatch in future and seeing what else I learn that I missed this time.

Dangerous_Usual_6590

17d

I think it's because the first introduction we get of Logan is him as a bully, and Veronica describing him as your "obligatory psychotic jackass".
Considering he doesn't do anything to change that description in those first episodes, it's pretty understandable if that is the strongest impression we have of him!

It's just in later episodes in season 1 that we learn a bit more of their previous relationship. IIRC, in the flashback episode in which they play Truth and Dare, Logan actually says he thought Veronica was very hot when they were 12 years old lol

But yeah, their whole previous relationship (and even why Logan did a 180° after Lilly's death) is something you can read more between the lines than explicitly spelled out :)

Brodes87

17d

They were a quartet. Logan was Veronica's friend, this was confirmed in dialogue and we can see it in flashbacks. Things didn't go south between them until Lily died.

17d

That’s so funny, because I just ETA that I got the impression that it wasn’t for Lilly and Duncan that they could have gotten together! Ahha!

The girls honestly seemed like they put up with both boys. But it struck me as popular clique friendship, relationship banter. They were all pretty immature in general.

17d

ETA? 🤔

TigerJean

Team Logan

17d

It’s usually estimated time of arrival? But in this case maybe they mean something else?

17d

lol sorry for the confusion. i know it's usual meaning, hence the 🤔 like "why'd you use ETA here??"

16d

Edited my comment to add.

Oops - did I misuse it? 😅

16d

lol umm i don't see what you added. what do you think ETA means?

16d

ETA usually means “Estimated Time of Arrival”. I’ve also seen it used a lot on Reddit to mean “Edited to Add” (As in: “I edited my comment to add…”)

I used the acronym to tell you that I have edited my original comment to include that part about me wondering if maybe Logan and Veronica would have gotten together if it hasn’t been for Duncan and Lilly).

Clearly, it was a fail! I’ll never use it again! Haha! 😂

16d

no no i'm sure it's just something new to me! maybe i'll use it that way some day 😜 thanks for clarifying!

just-a-bored-lurker

16d

I always thought it was when logan gave her the tapes for the memorial is what made her start to see him more emotionally

Dangerous_Usual_6590

17d

They were friends before Lilly's death. Everything went south when Lilly died.

The first time they interacted in a civil way was during the celebratory video for Lilly. It's also the episode in which you see how at ease Logan and Veronica were before.

I think Veronica started seeing things differently after listening to Logan spilling out why he was blaming (also) her for Lilly's death. In my opinion, it was the turning point for Veronica to actually see that she wasn't the only one hurting for Lilly's death, and they were just reacting differently.

Logan asking her help with his mother was another step in the right direction, but their relationship builds up during the whole season.

TigerJean

Team Logan

17d

I always thought those 4 were supposed to be super close but then Duncan discovered the possible siblings connection unbeknownst to both Veronica & Logan & he started to distance himself from Veronica this was the first crack between the 4 Logan being Duncan’s best friend assumed she did something really bad to betray him but he didn’t have the details & Duncan isn’t much for communication & opening up so Logan ran with whatever he conjured in his head. Then Lily gets murdered & both Logan & Duncan felt betrayed by Veronica when her dad started pointing fingers into the Kane family. So yet another crack formed and by the time the investigation came to end & Veronica & her dad appeared to be proven wrong by the whole town & was outcast the damage between what was left of their once tight knit group had been completely destroyed. But even Duncan & Logan’s relationship was stressed because Duncan alone knew why he acted towards Veronica the way he did but Logan didn’t have the whole picture so Duncan would get annoyed by Logan’s treatment of Her but also rarely intervened cause he didn’t want to explain himself. I’m sure he was also sour about what his family had to go through but he was confused on multiple levels so it was very complex.

So little by little Veronica & Logan get thrown into situations involving one another even if it’s just tormenting each other to begin with lol I think the first actual spark I noticed & I’m not entirely sure if Logan noticed it on a conscious level but maybe more subconsciously during the whole poker mystery storyline he semi flirts still very sarcastically with her but you also see a bit of admiration in his facial expressions as she is solving the Poker mystery. Like he’s noticing there is more to her than he originally thought I think that sparks some interest. By the time he humbled himself to ask for help finding his mom. I think he’s softening a lot towards her & remembering why he used to trust her & why they were such close friends. So slowly over time since I think they both start to see each other in a different light & also remember they were close friends before they became bitter enemies. This just grows until without thinking about it Veronica kisses Logan as a thank you in that moment she feel’s something unexpected but thinks she’s crazy until Logan kisses her back then they kiss each other mutually & light bulb 💡 goes over both their heads Omg I have feelings for … & it’s history from then on. But even though in the moment it felt like such an unexpected shock to them & us viewers but if you look back it’s easy to see what was slowly growing between them, that’s why although a shock most also immediately jump on board the LoVe train because it just feels like it’s about time lol 🤭

17d

This all makes a lot of sense. I think only Lilly knew or had an idea why Duncan ended things, until Veronica figured it out. It annoyed me with Duncan how he dealt or didn't deal with things and everyone had to just go with it until he either broke and said something or something happens that reveals what's going on.

Others have mentioned that episode as well, I think I'll need to go back and rewatch it. I just thought it was funny when she dissed them by saying poker had to be hard if they were playing it when she's clearly smarter than all of them.

When Veronica kisses Logan, I just saw it as her being appreciative towards him for saving her when he could've just left her to it, but he tracked her down when no one knew where she was and beat JTTs character up and wouldn't leave her side until she insisted he did. A kiss on the cheek I think, says more of a thank you for saving her life than a simple thank you would have done.

Maybe she did feel more for him or maybe she was just caught up in the moment, I think he always liked her and was just waiting for any kind of signal from her before making his move and that's what the thank you kiss was.

The situations being thrown together also contributes. If there wasn't something already, then there's almost always a moment where you start to view someone differently in different circumstances. It's just a matter of timing I think.

I remember watching parts of it when it first aired and seeing the episode where they kissed and was kinda thrown. When I watched it from the beginning I was surprised given how much of a dick he'd been to her prior to that, but looking back on it, it kinda makes sense when you put the pieces together. You don't see it coming unless you've been paying close attention.

Shiftyjones

16d

When she helped him find his mom and he cried at the hotel