www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cenotaph-tom-tugendhat-palestinian-solidarity-campaign-westminster-city-council-johnny-mercer-b2432439.html
Security minister says pro-Palestine stage near Cenotaph was ‘disgraceful’
s10: Old ArticleIt was a temporary stage built to allow for speeches to be given outside of 10 Downing Street. Police were surrounding it and the stage was taken down, without any damage caused, at the end of the march.
It should not have been allowed near the cenotaph it’s disrespectful to the remembrance of the dead. This could have been done further along Whitehall.
The only events near it should be remembrance of the dead.
Calling for a ceasefire to prevent further deaths is respectful.
Unless your idea of respectful is a bunch of EDL hooligans ‘protecting’ the monument by getting coked up at 11am and fighting the police on Remembrance Day.
The protests have frequently been filled with anti semitism and supporters of proscribed terror groups, that is definitely disrespectful of those who died fighting for their country.
I think the hooligans we can all universally condemn as well? It’s not either or.
Were you at the stage where the speeches were given? Did you listen to any of the speakers? If you did you’d know there was no talk of or support for antisemitism or proscribed terror groups.
You literally had people arrested on the marches for such things and the CAA specifically planning a March against the those demonstrating due to anti semitism.
Are you talking about Gideon Falter who was found out to be a liar and tried to cause trouble with the police? There is nothing worth listening to that comes out of that fuckers mouth.
This article is from October last year, there is a reason OP decided to post it here today.
No I’m talking about the CAA and it’s previous marches. Look it up.
Can you prove the antisemitism claims? Because a lot of the demonstrators are Jewish themselves?
Wow, the group themselves cancelled even though the Met said the risk of the pro Palestine protest turning ugly wasn’t high enough to warrant a ban.
Sounds a lot like that crazy entitled knob who tried to twist that encounter with the police where he tried to actively move against the flow of the protest (in order to agitate), and tried to frame it because he was “visibly Jewish” until he was exposed.
This we can see from the video.
No other protest or political cause has been allowed to build a stage there ever.
Reading the article, it sounds like the stage was going to be put up at the end of the protest route. The protesters wanted that to be outside Downing Street, but were told by the police to end the march further down Whitehall.
If it shouldn’t have been there I’m sure the organisers wouldn’t have had a problem to move it to a designated place. It sounds like a miscommunication between the organisers, the police and the council. It’s being made out to be a bigger problem than it is.
The idea of it being “disgraceful” is hilarious to me.
They’ve disrespected the entire country by… building a stage near the cenotaph. Disgrace!
That doesn't seem like a salient piece of information.
Why did you post an article from October last year?
Because it was allowed right after the massacre and I meant to post a recent one.
Laws dont apply if my cause is just though?
Every year as we roll around to PoppyMass season I get more and more dispairing. Yes I know its May, but rEsPeCt tHe fAlLeN season gets earlier each year.
The point, the FUCKING POINT of the memorial is to remind politicians to STOP! To Stop sending millions to their deaths under the brutal machine of war.
To maintain support for a brutal military campaign killing tens of thousands of civilians and then wring your fucking hands over the presence of a stage calling for peace near a memorial setting out exactly the consequences of a failure to seek peace - they are not fit to hold office and not fit to place the poppies on the cenotaph come November.
"How dare people call for peace at a memorial to the horrors of war!"
I'd imagine the majority of those griping didn't spend their time in respectful contemplation but rather doing what they normally do on a weekend. No calls to close cinemas, or parks, or malls, just a protest
Every year as we roll around to PoppyMass season
Stop. I still remember the completely made up attack on the poppy seller from last year. Another case of deliberately manufactured outrage.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/11/police-misleading-reports-attacks-on-poppy-sellers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-67363648
Love how the newspapers, media commentators and every other right wing shill riled up the EDL and after it happened pretended like they never played a part in it.
Also, it's a regular route for protests (the student loan protests went that way for example, back in the day) and I seem to remember from when this happened that a lot of the protestors were on King Charles St., which is not even in sight of the Cenotaph...
They are just trying to galvanise the usual knuckle dragging inbreds. It will be the "statue protectors" 2.0 soon, foaming at the mouth over people who want peace.
You don’t seem to understand what the cenotaph is for. It’s not to say we shouldn’t have wars or use military action where needed. Nor is it about civilian deaths?
It’s about remembering conflict and commemorating military loss of life (and related services).
Your answer here is slightly none sensical.
I am not a pacifist, there are times when you are left with no option but to fight.
However if you are cheering a current war and not seeking peace, with very few exceptions, you are ignoring what a memorial to war dead means.
I think few people are cheering on war. The main issue is more that understandably Israel can’t allow Hamas to attack it again and wants to wipe out its structure. The issue being no one is providing a solution that resolves Israel’s understandable security concerns and a ceasefire is literally a winning position for Hamas as it leaves them in control of Gaza. I think for the innocents in Gaza and Israel they need a workable solution that isn’t just a status quo ceasefire but a new peace deal under an international framework to provide a sustainable peace.
Again this all has nothing to do with a memorial to British dead service personnel.
Genuinely one of the worst takes on anything I’ve ever heard in my entire life.
You are basically saying if we totally bastardise our history, reappropriate the meaning and symbolism behind the memorial whilst we make a string of wild assertions about a conflict on the other side of the planet and act like these protesters aren’t mocking our war dead then it makes perfect sense that these protests have again been given special allowances to do things that have never been acceptable at any point in our civil history.
How about they leave the cenotaph alone and don’t attempt to aggravate the public as part of a desperate ploy to stay in the headlines? Is that really a controversial position?.
Calling for peace is not mocking war dead.
Any platform erected outside downing street or the Foreign Office will be in the vicinity of the cenotaph or the Women of World war II memorial.
So unless you propose protest marches outside Downing street be banned, which seems pretty much the opposite of the point of defeating the Nazis, there are going to be protests near them.
Declaring it hallowed ground is the only reappropriation going on here.
You aren’t calling for peace. You are calling for a temporary ceasefire so Hamas can regroup and reaffirm its grip on the Palestinian people. At absolutely no point in these protests haas anyone uttered a single word in the name of peace.
The fact these protesters have chosen to use our war memorials as a platform is a mockery of those who died and I really would like you to explain how you have convinced yourself this was normal, or acceptable on any level.
Stop pretending this wasn’t the first time in the UKs history that protestors have been allowed to behave in this manner and shamelessly use the Cenotaph as prop for their own beliefs.
You are free to mine my post history finding anywhere I have called for a ceasefire to be temporary.
Or you can withdraw your remark and apologise.
Please pull up a map of whitehall and identify a suitable location for a protest opposite downing street and the foreign office that is what you consider far enough from a war memorial.
Any ceasefire that leaves Hamas in charge is temporary by default, or are you expecting everyone to ignore the fact they have explicitly stated they will continue to massacre the people of Israel until the state and it’s people have been entirely destroyed?.
I will not apologise, at best you are a well meaning fool who is being taken advantage of.
I don’t need to do anything of the sort. The protest organisers and police have been clear that placing the stage there was a mistake and apologised. You are arguing the point all by yourself mate.
"If you don't support the mass killing of civilians it means you support Hamas and the extermination of Jews".
This whole subject is filled with puerile debate.
Clearly not what I said, but if you want to stick with your child like interpretation of my words then I can’t really see what I can do to convince you.
Keep pretending Palestine has a future under Hamas and that the calls for a ceasefire without addressing them are not only strengthening the terror group, but emboldening them to continue this conflict for as long as possible.
a conflict on the other side of the planet
You do know we lost troops in Palestine? The Cenotaph is a memorial to troops that fell all over the world.
Don’t suppose you have anything that remotely even resembles a source for that?.
Cheers for confirming that we are in fact bastardising our history and completely reappropriating what the memorial actually represents.
The Cenotaph in Whitehall represents the dead from the first two world wars. Even if we pretend it represents all war dead throughout our entire history then it’s still absolutely jaw dropping that you would attempt to twist what those soldiers fought for to try and prop up those sad little hate marches taking place in London.
If they could see what are people are doing it would make them physically sick, please stop pretending.
I found it strange one of your complaints about the protest was because it relates to a "conflict on the other side of the planet" when the Cenotaph is dedicated to conflicts that took place all over the world.
I am surprised you aren't aware of British History in Mandatory Palestine, I assumed it is common knowledge.
If they could see what are people are doing it would make them physically sick, please stop pretending.
I'm old enough to have known many people who served in WW2, they certainly didn't all hold the same opinions on political matters.
I think you claiming to speak for the dead of World Wars in an attempt to push your political agenda is absolutely disgusting, you should be ashamed of yourself.
The cenotaph in Whitehall is supposed to represent our dead and missing from the Fist and Second World War. Not the conflicts that make up the time period where mandatory Palestine was a thing. I am aware of the conflict I just cannot for the life of me work out how you are saying it’s relevant to a memorial that honours the fallen from a completely different war.
You can pretend to be ashamed as you want, fact is you are the one attempting to rewrite out his to prop up a series of hate marches that represent a movement and belief that we have historically stood against.
The cenotaph in Whitehall is supposed to represent our dead and missing from the Fist and Second World War
Should we not have the national service of rememberance there because it remembers- "the contribution of all British and Commonwealth military and civilian servicemen and women involved in the two World Wars and later conflicts."?
You can pretend to be ashamed as you want
I was brought up to believe that claiming the war dead (who can not speak) support my or other political beliefs outside what they fought for is a shameful act, they are not a rhetorical tool to be used. It appears some are being brought up without decency.
fact is you are the one attempting to rewrite out his to prop up a series of hate marches that represent a movement and belief that we have historically stood against.
For someone who was entirely ignorant of our history in the region an hour ago how come you are now such an expert?
So we are just powering through and still absolutely shamelessly pretending the memorial represents something other than it’s actual purpose and all so we can pretend there is some tenuous link between the Cenotaph and these hate marches?.
You claim you were brought up to believe you can’t speak for the war dead and yet here you are pretending they died for the beliefs these protesters hold and yet I’m the one who has been brought up without decency? Why? Because I’m not standing here and letting you outright lie about what the memorial represents?
Hypocrisy of the highest order imaginable, mixed with just a dash of unwillingness to stop and see that you have got this whole situation so entirely wrong it is genuinely concerning.
The cenotaph in Whitehall is supposed to represent our dead and missing from the Fist and Second World War.
[Citation needed]
When it was built in 1920, it did not represent the dead of WWII for obvious reasons.
Since 1945 it has been a general memorial to war dead, which includes the soldiers that died fighting Ottomans in WWI and during the 47-48 civil war in Mandatory Palestine.
My grandfather was a WW2 pilot. He absolutely would be sick to see this. I'm not sure if it's the case with the majority of WW2 veterans. But most I knew were extremely pro-Israel.
As for people calling them "Peace marches". Yeah right. They're not supporting or advocating for peace, they're just supporting the other side in a conflict which they barely know anything about. If they got their way it certainly wouldn't lead to peace and would probably destabilise the world even further. Useful idiots or cultists, etc. That's all I personally can see them as.
I don't doubt what you said of your Grandfather but I remember my Grandparents talking about the King David hotel bombing with disgust.
I remember an old soldier telling me about militants in Mandatory Palestine stringing up wire at a height to harm unwary British tank commanders.
I think like today, they held a whole range of opinions on the subject.
Remember when the “Cenotaph protectors” turned up on Remembrance Sunday, already drunk and coked up at 11:00 AM and started yelling racist stuff while starting fights with each other and the police, including throwing glass bottles at the police?
It seems a bit weird for anyone to pretend that the anti-genocide campaigners are the ones disturbing the sanctity of the Cenotaph after that…
You know this article is designed to rile up those “Cenotaph protectors”.
Because everyone goes on about how sacred it is in the papers every time someone so much as farts walking next to it then protests will use that to gain attention.
This is from 7 months ago. Why is it being posted now?
There's an influx of hasbara activity recently. A lot of popular subs will be infected.
Seems like the most appropriate place for it.
They gave their lives fighting a regime that felt they were the master race. They fought ethno nationalism for our freedom.
That's very much the point. The parallels today are undeniable. Appeasement did not work with Germany. It will not work with Israel.
The security minister is disgraceful and isn't compatible with British values.
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Calling them "Hamas protests" is extremely dishonest.
Your aim in doing so is to portray all Palestinians as terrorists and thus justify Israel's barbarity.
I find that to be pretty sickening.
The big take away from WW2 is that ethno nationalism is evil. Go and listen to the speeches given by Israeli politicians and the parallels to Nazi Germany make themselves.
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