metro.co.uk/2024/05/19/lazy-daughter-left-skeletal-mother-poo-stained-jumper-a-year-20867246/
‘Lazy’ daughter left her ‘skeletal’ mother in poo-stained jumper for a year
Apparently it was the partner who was toileting the mother. He should have called the police and ran off a year ago.
Dude has been put in prison for 30 months.
He was not an official carer. He told doctors and authorities the state of the mother but they did nothing. Social services should be in imprison not him.
We are having to pay for him being in jail when if the doctors and social services had done their job as he asked the mother would not be in that position.
What’re the doctors meant to do about someone in a poo laden jumper?
Write an adult safeguarding report and send it to social services.
There's a well laid out and well documented procedure for what they should do in these precise circumstances.
They failed to make this report and they failed this lady.
Literally anyone involved in a professional capacity is able to do that.
In and of itself, someone coming in with a poo laden jumper doesn’t necessitate a safeguarding referral.
Lol so coming in malnourished and covered in faeces doesn't warrant a safeguarding report? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.
Tbf as someone who has had to write many safeguarding referrals they often feel like a waste of time. The threshold to get over stretched SS departments to act is ridiculously high and their system feels like its designed to look for reasons to reject the referral.
Oh so now we’re including malnourishment too. Right why don’t we write up a percentage of the entire country for safeguarding. After all, Gordon Brown now says that so many children are now living in poverty. I’m sure you’ve the £££ to investigate and fund any measures deemed necessary.
Yes it is. There is something current preventing GPs doing safeguarding referrals at the moment as policy. I take it you are a GPO forced to follow this stupid dangerous policy.
Well they would've noticed it and could've gotten her moved to a care facility.
Yes. They should have conducted a mental capability test and alerted social services for a safeguarding condition.
All I could see is his say so on this, is there any other evidence? I don't know about social services but I can't imagine a situation where doctors don't intervene if they are told and are able to. After all, they don't directly get involved in arranging care but can do the referrals
Lol you're joking aren't you? My aunt was in a terrible state because she was very unwell and neglected by her husband. The only reason anything was done is because my mum quite literally bullied doctors, social services and the police into acting. It's an absolute joke.
Went she went into hospital the doctors weren't interested in what was happening outside, just getting her well and out the hospital so that they could have the bed. Social services kept trying to push it back on the NHS, and eventually after getting the local MP involved and harassing the hospital staff. She decided to use her position to make something happen, she's a fairly senior civil servant and she used her connections in the police to make something happen. It's a fucking disgrace.
His say, sure, but as disclosed by his barrister. A barrister will not argue a point without proper evidence
The evidence may well (and will often) include something their client told them (unless there is other evidence which demonstrates it is false).
Which is considered ‘anecdotal evidence’, and not just ‘evidence’.
No, all admissible evidence is evidence, and it’s just a question of weight for the trial judge. If unsupported by documents then it may well have less weight but it completely depends on the credibility of the witness and the nature of the evidence. “Anecdotal” is not a legal term.
They DID tell authorities but the authorities did not put in a care package. They are untrained in care and the mother might have refused it and refused to have house tidied.
Well if that's the case, disgrace that they are charged. Children should not HAVEto look after parents
Social services have no money. They are only there to force the parents to pay for care and if they have no money force the kids to pay or perform care. Most have good relationships so effectively are conscripted into care for no or little money. In a bad relationship they throw the weight of the law at you until you comply claiming you are the carer when yo are not and pretending they were not contacted when they were.
User deleted comment
14d
I'm not saying the mother was always taken to the toilet but when she was it was the partner, while the daughter was claiming money for being a carer.
From the article he was the one doing more of the caring for the mother.
It was not his job nor responsibility nor something he was trained for. He informed doctors who ignored him.
Well Sheesh.. feel bad for calling him out now!
This culture of “ain’t it someone else’s job” is so deeply rooted in some people in this country I despair. Honestly terrifying the amount of people completely willing to do nothing
Playing devil's advocate here it's not really her job to look after her mum though
If she’s claiming carers allowance … emm … it sure as hell is the daughters ‘job’ to look after her mother. And that aside what about, human decency, dignity, a child’s love / care for their parents or any number of ‘I don’t suck as a human’ things
"You could get £81.90 a week if you care for someone at least 35 hours a week and they get certain benefits." https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance so you get paid.. £2.34 an hour to do this lovely job. I'm not saying complete neglect is acceptable but it is awful that if you choose to do this the state decides you basically deserve bare minimum support.
Edit: A word
Oh so that makes it OK then? If that isn't something she was willing to put up with then she had a moral obligation to declare that she wouldn't be taking this responsibility anymore and to get state-funded services involved.
Honestly it's not okay. She should have called services even against her mum's will and admitted her rather than letting her sit in her own shit and piss for months. That's completely stupid.
I guess I don't think it's evil per se because who tf lives in a house filled with garbage looking after your mum who is basically dying and thinks that's a reasonable standard of living for anyone. I feel like your own mental health issues must be bad enough to just go one like that.
I mean she clearly said it doesn't make it OK. Reply to the actual comment
She said "complete neglect" isn't acceptable. This coupled with her comments defending the daughter implies that she feels partial neglect of one's caring duties is acceptable since the pay is so low.
That's not what I'm picking up from that at all. Understanding a young girls been put in a position she doesn't want to be, looking after a mum and cleaning the shit off her for years because the mum refuses help... and they repeatedly told doctors and social services and needed help but nobody actually helped them so in the last year she's started abandoning that mum, has been quoted telling the mother she wished she would die so definitely doesnt want to be her carer... and acknowledging that's a shit situation and more people are at fault than just the teenage to 22 year old daughter that struggles to even keep herself clean and had a bad upbringng from said mum, earning £2 per hour... doesn't make it acceptable or mean the poster thinks it's acceptable.
It means they acknowledge there's a lot more to it than just one young girl was the devil reborn. If you've never been forced into being a carer or seen how actually atrocious social services are when you ask them for help and somebody refuses it despite very obviously needing it, you might not think there's more to it. But as someone who's battling with this right now, with a relative in the exact same position as this girls mum (almost identical except the being starved part)... and social services won't do a fucking thing because she keeps telling them she's fine and doesn't want help... there's way more to this and way more people at fault than just the daughter that doesn't want to be a carer and so started abandoning her mum in the last year more and more.
By her own admission, she abandoned her whilst claiming carers benefit. The two are not remotely compatible. She was not caring for her while CLAIMING A CARERS ALLOWANCE, however little that may be. We can understand that it was a difficult situation for her without making excuses for it. If the situation of "caring" for your mother becomes so untenable that you are about to start neglecting her human rights then just call a bloody ambulance to dump the problem on the hospital. That way she would have had at least some period without the demands of "caring" for her mother weighing on her. But she didn't do that, did she? She just starved her and left her to rot. The woman now has a grade 4 pressure ulcer that can kill her as a result. You don't get a pass when you cause that kind of harm to another person, even if they did fail you as a parent. Why should we extend so much empathy to such a trash person that we excuse her crimes? She clearly doesn't have any herself. I can safely say I would never treat another person like that, nor would most people.
Regarding refusal of care: if an individual has the mental capacity to refuse the care social services can offer then they are allowed to do that. The mental capacity act is very clear about this. As difficult as this is to witness as things may deteriorate, that is still the patient's prerogative They are allowed to make an unwise decision. Maybe that was the situation for this woman once upon a time but she is clearly no longer refusing help if she's screaming out for neighbours to rescue her and was asking for food from the paramedics the moment they arrived.
We also don't even know if they were repeatedly trying to get her help. There isn't any evidence of this presented, just the boyfriend's claim. Now he wouldn't have any reason to lie to try and shirk responsibility for this, would he?
The money could be for looking after someone in the evenings and over night, with carers in during the day. It’s better than nothing
Edited since I didn't realise you can fit a 40 hour workweek plus a 35 hour caring week in together. I still think it's stinks though. 8 hour work day plus 5+ hours caring responsibility every day including weekends and you only get a fraction of a fraction of minimum wage for it.
You cannot take carers allowance unless you earn less than £151 a week after tax, NI and expenses. Earning a single penny over that amount would require you to pay the full allowance back for the number of weeks you breached the limit.
So ignoring this case specifically, no you couldn't do a 40 hour working week then claim carers allowance unless most of your money was eligible to count as expenses for them - which could include up to 50% of your earnings spent on paying for other carers to come in.
The entire policy is bloody disgraceful and ends up putting such an awful emotional pressure on some of the most vulnerable people in the Country, who save us so much in what the social housing costs would be for the people needing care to go into state run support.
Aye, there has been a thing in the news recently about people having to pay back thousands of pounds because they unwittingly started earning over the limit. The system is shit
Doesn’t take away from what this woman did (or didn’t do) though
It actually does. Those 35 hours include night time so you can have a 9 -5 and count the 10pm - 6am towards it.
I see. I still think the pay sucks. Maybe with other support like an actual visiting additional carer it could be helpful. More realistically people don't have jobs or have part time, their parent needs round the clock care, their life is over. She didn't get a visit from services for three months.
Honestly reading this she seems pretty awful since she took off and left her mum without being washed for like 3 days straight.
The pay is absolute dogshit when you consider it is £650 inc jobseekers (although you don't have to visit the job center to look for work.)
As for no visits from social i can sympathise. I was in the same position and often times you get zero communication or resources for assistance, if family is not around (as in my case) it is hard even to get started seeking additional help, on top of often times it is family members who can be quite stubborn about what help they actually want.
In case of this women though there is no excuse. Sounds like she was happy taking the pay cheque for none of the work.
Counts for the social worker side of it not the care worker side unless you are 'waking nights' if you sleep they don't count 11pm till 7am then. Just one of the many flaws in the care system to nickle and dime the workers.
Look, I'm with you on how pathetic the carers allowance is, but that's entirely separate. This is awful.
Doesn't matter. If they took the money the accepted the responsibility. End of.
If they don't want the responsibility they can let someone else do it.
I believe they tried to though. They reported it to various people and nobody helped.
My aunt is in a very similar situation to this. She's 80 atm and can't get up herself, pisses and shits herself and doesn't clean. I haven't been in over a year to her house, my parents tell me not to go anymore due to the state of it. They say it smells like nothing you can imagine.
Social services/doctors/carers you name it. They've all been called to help her by my parents. She told them she was fine and she could get up by herself and they were talking nonsense.... AND THEY TOOK HER WORD ON IT. The woman sitting in her own piss and shit stink, and they fucking took her PIP off of her because she told them she could walk fine,the pip my parents got for her... she can't get out the bed herself and sits in the same piss soaked chair with shit filled trousers...
I cannot explain to you how fucking hopeless they are. My parents have given in trying to help. So now it's just her and her elderly husband living like that every day. He gets her to the chair and just changes her trousers and pants each day and she doesn't clean.
My parent tried to get them to put a walk in shower area in as there's 0 way she can get in a bath, but a seat in a shower with no barrier would work for cleaning her. But she told them she didn't need it and again they've done nothing but leave her.
There's way more people to blame in this story than the bullied daughter that can't even keep herself clean, is only 22 when she can't cope any longer (God knows when she started being her carer and if she ever even knew she could do anything else or had any other options if her mum refuses help) and that has reported the state of her to doctors and social services multiple times but gotten nowhere. The people assessing and leaving my aunt in that condition should be going to jail also.
Legally it is not a daughter's job to provide care. It sounds like the mother was not much of a mother before she fell ill. It sounds like the mother was refusing care and the daughter told doctors and social services who washed their hands of it and did nothing. Social care is broken in the UK.
What if her parents where shit to her? I think we are just blaming someone out of anger that had no business caring for a vulnerable person. I feel sorry her I really do, I have friends that are carers that do amazing jobs but there life is over and has been since 15 it's bullshit and they get no help. So when I see story's like this I see the desperation of the actions. I'm sorry but I don't blame her for this
Then she should be better than they were, I mean I hope if by your logic this woman doesn’t and never has children because they’re going to be abused by her based on your ‘argument’ be the best you can be, leave the world a better place than you entered it.
I agree with you 100% but you choose.to have kids most of the time and there is a choice there.with a carer there is no job your life is stolen from you. Just saying show some compassion and fix the underlying issue
Being better or not I can understand how you could just not go bzck ever to your parents or family members.
I have a few family members that could be pleading I'm not going back in any way after some of the things they said. In the kind of openly saying that people "like me", should get executed.
Garbage. She knows how NOT to do it so knows how to do it.
I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic.
Devils advocate...what was there no carer checking? I know why because everything is done on the cheap. We can put her in prison or we can put in prison the person for like the adult social care do this as they're the real culprit here. They have left a women with no understanding or experice to look after a vulnerable person now the vulnerable person has poo on their jumper. When my grandad was in the NHS they gave him the wrong medicine and left him in his own urine. Why didn't they go to prison? I don't think they should have but it's the same argument no? Someone has been to care some and it's not been done? Except the NHS has said this person is as good to administer care and a trained health professional?
Do you expect social services to be psychic? By the sounds of it, the daughter was claiming carers allowance (hence the article saying she was in it for the money - not that it's a great deal of money), and there's no mention of concerns being raised with social services before the visit mentioned in the article when things happened quickly. Adult social care don't get to know who's claiming carers allowance, so have no way of knowing if someone is caring for a family member unless explicitly today - and so adult social care can't provide carers if they don't know about a person, and by the sounds of it they acted quickly once concerns were raised. So no, unless you know more to this story than is being reported (in which case, please do share), there's no basis in your claim that adult social care are the real culprit.
Hang on so you're saying we give employment benefits to people but need to see proof of everything but we can leave someone to care for some one else with no experience and we won't check on them??? Come on now. Don't get me wrong women's a monster but she's mentally ill so we need to look at the safeguarding teams and hold them accountable for this happening...but we won't because one is a women on benefits the other...well you know where in going with this
I work in adult social care and can assure you, we get told absolutely nothing about who is claiming carers allowance or is acting as an informal carer, unless they specifically contact us for help or advice. We have no idea until we're contacted - adult social care is, whether you agree with it or not, completely separate from the DWP. So what would you like to hold the safeguarding teams accountable for - not being clairvoyant? It sounds like your issue is being misdirected towards adult social care, when actually it's a much wider issue for the government to tackle (along with many issues that come with the poor funding and support of informal carers).
I have experience of calling adult social services on numerous times and being ignored. Due to underfunding the call handlers and social services assesers fob you off so they do nothing.
I'm sorry that you've been fobbed off, that's certainly not what should be happening, and you would be well within your rights to complain if that's happened - i would encourage anyone with that experience to feed it back if they're up to it. However, the article in question makes no mention of social care having been contacted before the neighbour raised concerns in this instance.
but she's mentally ill
Don't degrade mental illnesses. There is nothing in the article that suggest the women has a proper mental illness. Throwing about the term for random trashy people isn't helpful.
The doctors were told but ignored it. It is in the article. They do this. They lie. You obviously have no experience of the currently broken social services system.
The doctors are not based within social services, that's a completely different issue. And my experience is working within the broken system as a social worker for years.
We can’t just keep blaming social care in situations like this, social workers are not psychic and it needs people to report things before they can act. Which clearly is what happened in this case.
I also think there is something wrong with our culture when we automatically think a government department should be stepping in to care for our relatives with no responsibility on family members.
This woman received a benefit to care for her mum, it is not much and family carers should be better respected and supported than they are. However, she took that benefit on the condition she was providing care. She wasn’t just struggling, she (and her partner) was abusing a vulnerable lady. She left her hungry and dirty and didn’t even let her have the dignity of using a toilet. It’s disgraceful and absolutely correct that criminal processes have been followed.
Devils advocate...what was there no carer checking?
Because the women deliberatly decided not to call any services let along emergency services, it's in the article.
They have left a women with no understanding or experice to look after a vulnerable person now the vulnerable person has poo on their jumper.
The women absolutely knows what to do and that what she was doing was wrong. This isn't some case of a person just note having enough education.
They both plead guilty because of this. If there was any hint of them not knowing or being confused they could have actually made some kind of argument.
Both Pammant and Leach went on to plead guilty
It there in the article they did blame the doctors for inaction. When you cannot afford the law to prove your innocence then you are forced to plead guilty.
When you cannot afford the law to prove your innocence
I think you might be in the wrong sub, this the UK sub.
This is definitely UK. You would be given a court lawyer but the state can afford the best more expensive lawyers to prove black is white. I bet they would have won if they could have afforded the subject access request on phone calls to social services presuming they don't get deleted.
Thank you some sense. They were given a job they had no ability to do against theur will against their protests. Social services are filth.
Some people just want to blame someone and have no idea what it's like for a carer
I directly have having arranged private care for my father recently.
How you holding up?
He died. I have a mother that is in the category.Rang doctors who said i had to call mental health they said call doctor, doctor said call mental health, they said call doctor, they said call mental health,they 'aid' they would email doctor. Crooked the whole lot of them
Sure, if you're a psychopath
Of course it is... that's one of the primary responsibilities of family.
This is just a very sad case. Not at all excusing them not asking for the outside help that this woman clearly needed, but when most likely all parties involved had significant mental health and social problems, they may not have had perspective on how bad things had got. Assuming this lady had such significant needs that at 58 she could not feed and toilet herself or leave the house, perhaps some sort of professional or in community support should have been in place to safeguard her.
perhaps some sort of professional or in community support should have been in place to safeguard her.
From the article it sounds like they deliberatly didn't ask for help. Seems like everyone that would know they she might need more help was sentenced to jail. So yeh you are right some of the people should have told the state that she needed some help, but they didn't and they got in trouble for that.
Sounds like the justice worked perfectly here.
This is untrue as you can see in the article le doctors were aware but did nothing. This is the state of adult services at the moment fobbing off responsibilities to unqualified uninterested family. They did try to get help but were ignored.
I’m not sure where it says in the article that doctors were aware and did nothing? Where does it say they tried to get help and were ignored?
This is untrue as you can see in the article le doctors were aware but did nothing.
Please can you quote what you are referring to.
The articles state they blamed doctors.The doctor would have been fully aware but did nothing.
The doctor would have been fully aware but did nothing.
I don't get how you are getting here.
^^bot
The problem nowdays, is that bots are actually pretty clever and intelligent. If someone says something really dumb, it's almost certain to be a human.
So I am certain you are a human.
^^ stock bot response, it still does say why it went off at a tangent.
Look, you lied, got called out on it and are just diverting.
There is nothing in the article to suggest
The doctor would have been fully aware but did nothing.
The authorities were fully aware but did nothing. This is what is happening in social care at the moment.
And you know this how?
Personal experience with many social workers.
Surprise if you don’t raise your kids well and don’t send them to school clean they might not do the same for you when you’re old
I mean some people do everything for their kids but then the kids still turn out to be arseholes later in life, you can't control everything.
True, but in this case the article states that the daughter was bullied for being sent to school dirty and had a lack of emotional support. Neither excuses the other, but it's impossible to ignore the connection.
I also believe it was payback
She wasn't sent to school dirty, her friendship group definitely were, and regretfully, I did take part in bullying, however, natasha only caught flack for her odd behaviour and not her personal hygiene.
The whole place was a trash heap from the article. So I don't think it was any kind of deliberate comeuppance. but that the daughter was just a lazy slop.
daughter was just a lazy slop.
Partly, but also, Natasha shouldn't have been left with a tamagotchi, never mind 2 small children and a dependant adult. Social services are really falling short here.
It does happen but also you don't necessarily know the inner dynamics of someone's family.
Yawn....
Thats not the case here
Every parent thinks they're a good parent. Statistically, many of them must be wrong.
I think there must be some kind of mental genetics thing as well. Sounds like the whole place was a trash heap, it's not just poor upbringing that leads to that, it's something mental as well.
It sounds like the mother had a hoarding problem and would refuse the place being cleaned. Legally the daughter could not clean up with the mothers permission.
I went to school with Natasha, her mother wasn't the problem. I'm very surprised anyone was left in her care as it wouldn't take long to realise she spent most of the time "away with the fairies" (only nice way to put it). She had two children over covid, so hopefully, they've been taken care of.
Can't comment on the partner as I never knew him, he definitely wasn't at our school. It's an awful story and I'm not trying to take blame away from them both, but imo Natasha could barely take care of herself, never mind two children under 5 and her poor mother. Social services have definitely been involved in the past so I think more questions should be raised as to why they didn't have a single home visit in over a year.
Or: “traumatised, unsupported, desperate woman is unable to cope”.
User deleted comment
14d
Evidence free allegation
So that means she couldn’t change a jumper for a year?
If the mother refuses then she would not legally be allowed to do so. The mother had mental health issues that the authorities were ignoring.
Plus you legally are required to have two people to lift an elderly person and physically she was unable.
Yawn..
Quite possibly. Have you ever dealt with the extreme elderly while you yourself are ill and traumatised
You didn't read the article did you?
The article says the Daughter has Asthma, COPD, self neglect, depression, and malnutrition.
She wasn’t capable of caring for herself, let alone her mother.
Fundamentally I wouldn’t say she was anything but morally condemnable, but the point of stories like this isnt to make me feel good saying how awful she is, the point is to ask how we avoid this happening again. Clearly carers allowance needed to check she was capable of providing care, and the council should’ve reviewed the situation and taken the mother into public care before this point.
I think you’ve misread the article. The mother suffered those conditions not the daughter.
Trust me - DWP do not care who claims Carers Allowance.
During my early adulthood, I claimed it while being unfit to do so. It was e situation where the people in my household were also caring for the disabled person, but I was the only person eligible to claim Carers.
And let me say - DWP do not care and do not check up on you. As long as that person is still classed as disabled, you will get the money. And it's probably this way because you barely get £300 a month. You're not allowed to get a job, and if you're on other certain benefits, it's subtracted.
Just worked it out, to fit the requirements, it's supposed to be 35 hours a week and you earn £320 a month, that's £2.20 an hour. So, hey - why pay a nurse the minimum wage when you could pay some smackhead to do it for penny's.
Note - this is not me defending the girl. Just explaining that this happened because the DWP just simply does not care.
I think this Does completely defend the girl.
Don't get me started on Dwp..
It didn't say the daughter just 'the woman'.
It’s the Metro. A Russian owned disinformation source that spreads ignorance, hate, and fear.
It is designed to force people to do unpaid or underpaid and untrained care duties.
As are all,online Ahem..newspapers
Doesn't sound like that at all. Can you quote anything in the article that suggest that.
From the witnesses, it said the reason was "lazy".
It said she could have asked for help from the state but deliberatly decided not to ask for any help.
Then you might benefit from understanding how trauma and lack of self belief compound with poor education and poverty to trap people in poor decisions. And maybe a deeper developmental issue.
Exactly
Yes, this.
Morally her daughter has failed but she clearly wasn't mentally equipped to care for her mother. But most of us are not to be honest.
We are mentally equipped to deal with babies who are incapable of doing anything but sitting there pissing and shitting themselves. Not adults.
We seemed to have cured diseases that kill us as kids and now seem to be championing a societal drive to keep people alive as long as possible long after there's any quality of life but with no real progress in solving aging related illness.
So we are heaving with old people who are really shit to deal with. Literally. My wife and I tried to care for her MIL at her home as long as we could with some help from carers before having to accept with full time jobs, a mortgage to pay and kids to raise, it wasn't going to happen. I've seen some shit. And I'll say it again. Literally. Caring for the elderly who can't get up to go to the toilet is absolutely disgusting. The permanent smell of shit really gets to you after a while. You never get used to it. It doesn't matter that they're being cared for properly, between the adult nappy that is constantly filling and the accidents and the toilet chair in the living room. It pervades.
Have you seen flappy old tits? I have, too many times. It doesn't matter how much you try to avoid it, you walk in on it all the time. There's no dignity left. I was going crazy, and I wasn't the one physically wiping shit out of her ass and fanny.
Why are we not pushing for euthanasia and a proper legal process for it? ...Well care homes are a nice way to ensure that any of the wealth in the boomers pockets not already scooped up by the rich can be shovelled into care homes with their exorbitant fees to prevent being inherited by the proletariat. £7000 it costs to house my MIL in a mid level care home. We could put her in a cheaper one and people have questioned why my wife and I don't. Told we'll be likely to get a bit of inheritance that way. Maybe. But I've had experiences with a relative who had no house to sell who was put in the basic one. I've never seen such a horrible place.
If we're going to force my MIL to keep living, we're not going to force her to live in a hellhole so that maybe in 5 years time when she's statistically expected to go, my wife and I might have 100k in our pockets. That's the kind of shit they do. I won't sink that low.
Back to this woman. I can't read enough in the article to know her situation fully. But it seems like the daughter was financially relying on the mum and not mentally equipped to care for her. The proper moral thing to do was to sell up the house and move mum into a care home. Why she didn't I can't know, but I know the whole process is incredibly difficult. My wife and I are mentally proficient and it completely broke us. The endless paperwork. Sorting out and selling a home, the endless threatening letters from the care home threatening to send the bailiffs to our house despite the fact we had told them they would be paid once the house was sold (which took 2 years to sort and sell while doing full time jobs), something they'd accepted but there wasn't a process to connect the financial part of the care home group with the management part of the individual home.
I've lost count of the number of tears I've watched my wife shed over all this and think this whole process would have broken me if my wife wasn't so damn organised and good with paperwork.
The daughter failed to do the right thing but for me she was far from the first person in the chain to fail this poor old lady. I can't bring myself to be angry at the daughter because she's me in a slightly alternate reality. If 2 years ago my wife had turned round and said to me. I'm sorry I'm broken, we're just going to have leave my mum in her own shit in the living room and try and pretend all this isn't happening. I'd have understood even if I couldn't quite bring myself to leave it all like that.
I went through something similar with both my dad and my granddad.
What made it really hard was both of them refused help from me (and in my granddad's case, from anyone). They found it demeaning. And I think both of them found it perverse to essentially be cared for like a child by a woman they used to care for when she was a child herself. My dad said as much to me, that he was the parent and I was the child and he thought it was wrong for the roles to switch. We had a lot of arguments about it, because I wanted to help him. Sometimes I'd help him anyway despite his protests, because there was no nurse around to do it and I wasn't about to leave him sitting in dirty clothes, and he'd be angry with me for days after. In retrospect I don't blame him for being angry but at the time it pissed me off because it was like: what do you want me to do? Just leave you in your own filth because it's embarrassing for your child to take care of you? Yeah, that's really gonna help me sleep at night, knowing I left you like that.
All this is to say caring is already a hard job - physically hard as well, people don't realise that even a very thin old person is still heavy - and that's when the person is cooperating with you. When they don't want your help, and they're determined to refuse any kind of assistance, and you don't want to force the matter but you also can't just walk out and leave them that way so you have to make a choice where you're going to be the bad guy no matter what you do... fuck me, it fucking sucks.
You're a good person, and totally right it's a horrible situation to find yourself in. Recently I went through all the legal stuff with my parents and their wants if things go bad, it's horrible to discuss but it needs discussing.
They are mid seventies perfectly healthy and of sound mind but we've been through it with my nan and it was a real struggle for my mum for the same reasons you've stated.
I'd be like,
"Remember all those times you had a shit eating grin on your face as you told me the world wasn't fair and to suck it up buttercup? Get in the fucking tub, old man."
My grandfather always said we do it for animals but not for humans. He was getting unable to care for himself before he passed away and it was so degrading for him, he'd always been a strong, independent man. It was humiliating. If he could have gone even just a year before he finally did, he would've chosen that. If I ever live to old age I don't want this. I don't want to be shitting and pissing myself. We give animals the kindness of putting them out of their misery but not humans.
What a disgusting way to refer to another human being. You can get used to it. You just didn't want to.
Yawn ...
Caring for[!] the elderly who can't get up to go to the toilet is absolutely disgusting.
Then don't do it, and let the people who don't find it disgusting apply themselves.
The proper morale thing to do was to sell up the house and move mum into a care home. Why she didn't I can't know
Probably because it was her home. The crux of the matter, to me, seems to be that she was being paid Carer's Allowance, then not fulfilling her duty of care. I do not know why Leach was charged, unless he claimed it too.
Suicide is no longer a crime, and fairly easily achieved. It would be more easily achieved if there were not attempts by the government to interfere with the wide availability of materials and the knowledge to make use of them.
Suicide is not easily achieved. If it was easily achieved, it would be senseless for the government to keep imposing restrictions on suicide methods that allow us to die swiftly without creating a nasty mess for others. The reason that they do it is because it works at preventing the suicides of people who want to die by suicide. Even for someone entirely able bodied, suicide is fraught with the risk of failing and ending up with severe disabilities. But for someone who is ostensibly incapable of even getting up to go to the toilet, I'm not sure how you expect it to be a trivially easy task.
Wow , have you thought that one day you will be old and vulnerable person . Shaming a lady for having flappy old tits , is disgusting.
I'm not shaming her for having old flappy tits. We all end up with old flappy tits male or female. I'm shaming the people in charge for putting us in the situation of such indignity when there are alternatives.
Lol! Is that all you really took from that guys post?!
What is wrong with you.. 😂
I actually feel bad for all 3 of them. Social services and local GP should have stepped in sooner when the girl was a teenager as clearly the parent couldn’t look after her properly back then sending her to school dirty. Sounds like she never had a real upbringing.
doesn’t excuse the crime but 2 n half years in prison is a bit much, especially with the guy has shown a bit of remorse for his actions, tried to make things right and still got the same judgement cast at him. That bit doesn’t seem fair at all. The judge seems a bit pissy.
These kids exist. Don't blame teachers
I cared for both my parents... I couldn't think of an alternative, saddens me that someone can leave the people that raised and gave birth to them in such a situation :(
Because not everyone came from a happy l, supportive family. Some people had horrible abusive parents that made them hate their entire lives.
Yep. My mum is incredibly ungrateful for everything my brother and I do for her.
Even had a transport ambulance person say to me, 'I feel sorry for you. She's an incredibly difficult person!"
Aw x so sorry..get it..
Well maybe they could have taken a hike instead of defrauding the DWP claiming the carer's allowance. They deserve no sympathy.
To the tune of the disgustingly high £81.90 per week. She was absolutely raking it in. This is more than enough to cover for the 35 hours per week that this demands, and then some on top too.
Again to reiterate if she doesn't like £81.90 she could get lost. But now she's in prison.
Then leave them for the state to look after, don't take money and deliberately screw them over.
Aw xx yes xx
Until you meet the parent then you'd wouldn't understand and would continue to post naive comments like this.
A lot more people do this to their parents than you may think. I have seen some pretty sad situations where children are fighting over inheritance and none of them care about their actual parent
generally that's not the children's fault.
But if they were not psychologically able...it's obvious..
Never met a narcissist have you
Fuck em, not my problem
This woman is only 22 and her Mum is in this state. It wasn’t long ago she was a teenager. She has probably been hugely neglected through her mums inability to parent (I assume she’s been ill for some time). She may have been a carer as a child. it doesn’t seem like anyone in this house was capable of looking after another person. Sad all around.
Absolutely tragic case all around. It would be worth anyone who is questioning this from any angle to read the whole judgment, not just poorly written article by a writer who three hours earlier was writing about cars.
There is some complex law and case law around this for healthcare professionals, and normally we involve multiple colleagues in any decisions around action or inaction. Sometimes it may take a ‘brave’ decision to do something which is skirting right to the edge of legal permissibility (legally permissible is not the same as morally correct).
We also have the advantage of being able to be relatively objective as we have no personal relationship to the subject - I have seen family members in cases similar to this thinking they have failed their relative by getting professional help.
Yess..online journalism..or churnalism..
Why take a spot in prison someone wielding knife should be in and not in parole. And we have to pay for the cost of it… make the daughter pay a very hefty fine. Doesn’t have the money, take her car and ban from receiving benefits from now on.
The list of ailments for the mother wouldnt have prevented her doing things for herself. The daughter should have phoned social care. It should not be a legal requirement to care for an adult.
lol lol lol
I think the daughter probably has a mental disorder bc who the heck?!!
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14d
It's probably not genetics but rather generational trauma.
What do you mean?
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Some people are unreal. I particularly like the woman's partner who blamed everyone else (health service, social services, etc) and claimed the daughter was lazy.. what, like you couldn't show an ounce of humanity and help that poor woman out either? What a weak man.