metro.co.uk/2024/05/17/two-women-murder-man-60-falsely-accusing-paedophile-20856704/
Two women murder man, 60, after falsely accusing him of being a paedophile
It's why I never understand why social media and YouTube allow those pedo hunter channels, it encourages these kind of people.
I hate those videos. Every one I've seen has been a group of people who look like they are doing it more so because they get off to bullying someone who they know doesn't have a leg to stand on in this situation as opposed to actually wanting to stop crime. Most of them are just 5+ people having someone backed in to a corner and insulting them/being aggressive. Obviously the person they're confronting has done/is about to do something bad, but the way they act in the videos is what I don't like.
they used to come up on my fb page all the time and it always seemed to be intellectually challenged (mostly) northern heavy blokes surrounding a mentally disabled man who often has zero idea whats going on, we never see what tactics they use they just claim they are guilty with no trial and no legal advice.
Yeah that's exactly it. Or quite often a mentally challenged Asian guy
And usually with those these guys have a heavy anti immigrant attitude and turn the thing into a rant about immigration using racial insults like “ Aladdin”
Those groups are bottom-feeding pricks. Professional bullies trying to gain clout by targeting people they know won't fight back. They can dress it up as "protecting kids" but the police continually tell them that their actions actively harm police investigations.
Every single one of those paedo hunters needs their hard drives checked
This should be higher up.
I know a dude who used to do it
He never posted the videos, simply gathered evidence, confronted them in person, and then made sure they couldn’t leave before the police turned up
Admittedly he’s a big dude, but he’s definitely not the bullying type, he was just molested as a child and wants to protect other children from that
Quietly handing a potentially dangerous sex offender over to the police is absolutely fine.
Good on your friend. What made him stop doing it?
He couldn’t handle the things they were saying triggering his ptsd anymore
Understandable. I hope he’s otherwise living his best life.
"Obviously the person has done/is about to do something"
Well, no, I wouldn't say that is 'obvious' at all. What you get with these videos is someone making an accusation and then basically ruining someone's reputation. With immense glee. There isn't anything factual about it.
Many pedo hunters are pedos themselves. Normal people don't spend all their spare time thinking about pedophilia. But pedo hunters do. Either it's to deal with their own internal guilt or to learn tactics.
https://youtu.be/yGXSTBa5CbU?si=nzpNpj-jcsIVzN37
Satirical take on them
Ahaha fucking brilliant
I know what you mean, it's hard to root for anybody at all in those things, and if you're weighing them up against a sex offender they must be coming across pretty bad, you know full well that if they couldn't catch a paedo, just anyone they didn't like the look of would do.
A truly well meaning hunter would discretely take the weirdo to one side and insist that they get professional help, there must be some way of quietly handing them over to police so they can get straightened out without every have a go hero in town queuing up to burn their gaff down, along with all the danger of the wrong person being lynched that comes with it.
No matter what their victim has done, I always think they have done worse.
When football cleaned up its act the hooligans didn't disappear. See also: Tommy Robinson, ULEZ protestors ...
Their behaviour ends up being viewed as entrapment preventing the police from securing a conviction they may otherwise have achieved without an issue. They cause more harm than good. While I appreciate their feelings and their good intentions, unless you pull the guy off of a kid red handed you need to let the authorities deal with it for the greater good.
YouTube shouldn’t allow this. People should demand they not be allowed. I’ve never seen one. Didn’t even know they existed.
Far too many people will claim you’re a paedo yourself if you try and curb these videos. People go insane whenever the word is mentioned.
Making money
Yet, at the same time, YouTube bans video categories such as rooftop parkour because it's deemed dangerous.
Rather ironic.
Realistically, they just don't care unless the courts/government tells them they have to deal with it.
I think money is a bigger influencing factor than the government tbh
A good point
It's why I never understand why social media
The default answer is that businesses that aren't regulated will do anything to make money, as they exclude moral considerations from the profit motive.
The slightly longer answer is that politicians haven't had the will or courage to do so, despite being told repeatedly twenty years ago that all of this was going to happen.
The longer answer is that they kowtow more to the people making the money than those they are supposed to represent.
Tbf though, can you imagine the backlash if a politician was to come out and say they wanted to "clamp down on pedo hunters!". Especially from the type of people who post this stuff.
That's like the 146th worse thing YouTube allows. I get where you're coming from but they're pretty much going to allow anything that generates ad revenue and isn't illegal or chasing away more users or advertizers than it's worth
Gets clicks n views n is therefore profitable. Corporations find basic moral standards to be bad for profits.
Yeah man, they don't need punishment - they need gunishment!
This reminds me of another case where this man was accused of being a nonce because he took photos of kids smashing his plant pots.
He was murdered based on those accusations, then the murderers had a ‘justice for’ facebook group where friends and family saying that they had their hearts in the right place and weren’t bad people.
Bizarre.
The court heard that during the fatal attack James repeatedly stamped on Mr Ebrahimi's head, shouting "have some of that".
"When the police arrived, Ebrahimi's body was still burning".
easy to say that here. theres plenty of other threads with redditors literally inciting vigilante justice, where it would merit a few posters standing up to them.
Some of us do!
I find the content of PublicFreakout fascinating, but the comment sections absolutely horrendous. So many outright hateful, vitriolic, and often times racist and sexist assholes in those threads, pining for blood.
I’ve gotten into my fare share of spats over there.
Replace PublicFreakout with r/unitedkingdom and this comment still holds.
Tabloid brainrot unfortunately. It's a joke that any of them are permitted when they aren't even accepted as sources on Wikipedia because they fail fact checks so often.
Thing is, people don’t know what they’re asking for.
You see bloodthirsty people asking for Cartel/ISIS tier executions to be held every weekend, but you know for a fact that they couldn’t stomach something like that. Then there’s the whole “if you disagree, you’re an apologist” logic too
I've very consistently said it.
You can report those comments to reddit
I do. A lot.
No matter how bad the allegations, no matter how clearly someone seems guilty, they need the option to have their day in court.
Apparently Kevin Spacey has so far been cleared of all charges. Channel 4 just recently aired a new documentary with 10 men making accusations against him.
I have no real insight in to the case, the documentary or the new accusations but feels like Channel 4 needs to hang back a bit.
I don’t like these type of programmes either. If they’ve found information then it should be handed to the police. Feels too much like a public witch hunt to me.
The thing happened to till Lindeman of Rammstein.all the women that made accusations against him went to the press it was looked into it was found that he didn't do anything wrong.
I understand your unease at these types of programs, but if it wasn't for the media attention of the post office scandal, nothing would have been done. And that has taken a lot of attention to force the powers that be into thinking about doing the right thing.
Also capital punishment.
There are very limited and specific examples where vigilante justice is understandable/justified. These paedo hunter nob heads are absolutely not one of those examples.
Most of those vigilantes are just sadists who use them as convenient targets
Whilst I obviously don't like pedos, I often think these "pedo hunter" types often belong in the cell next to them for a different crime
It isn't vigilante, its the UK version of the US phenomenon of calling whoever you don't like a "snitch" when there is no reason to believe that, it just justifies violence some loon wants to commit.
It's like the cop says in Deathwish, you let a vigilante run riot and pretty soon any guy with long hair is getting hit.
This has happened before. Idiots like the slime that killed him use it as a device to bully usually single men many of whom have learning disabilities or health problems. I still remember that poor man in Bristol. Filth.
Judging by this sentence:
pressed a button on a lanyard that activated an alarm used for assistance for those with health issues.
And combined with the fact that he supposedly still physically gets out but is a quiet recluse, struggled with money and is an avid collector, it's a reasonable assumption that the gentleman in question may have also had some form of mental/learning disability.
So with zero evidence they tortured and killed a disabled man.
So with zero evidence they tortured and killed a disabled man.
At least half of these incidents I can think of off the top of my head involved disabled men as the victims, which is a massive overrepresentation.
Makes sense. They wouldn't attack someone capable of defending themselves.
They deliberately harmed someone because they could control him and felt like doing it. Makes them no better than child abusers. I'm sure they wouldn't see the hypocrisy though.
It’s like all the people effectively stalking and harassing the real Martha. Like sure I get what she’s alleged to have done is bad, but not sure you guys are any better…
As they say two wrongs don't make a right.
An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind
I am not sure if anyone records this data but it often seems to be the case that those falsely accused by vigilante mobs tend to be socially awkward, living alone and vulnerable. When I saw this headline I was pretty sure the victim would be in that category. Might be confirmation bias but it is interesting.
There is a stereotype of paedophiles as being emotionally stunted and socially awkward and that probably means normal people who have those traits either due to mental disability or just as a part of their personality are more at risk from ignorant assumptions. A small subset of people who have these prejudices will also be hate-filled, violent and willing to act on that and some poor innocent person becomes victim to it.
Also never underestimate the ability of a group of people that gossip amongst each other to convince themselves of nearly anything.
The opposite side of the witch trial coin.
There's so much targeting of people who seem "a little odd", whether by physical disability, learning disability, autism etc.
So often I see people talking about others who "just seem weird" or "just give me a bad vibe" and it's used as the basis for this moral judgement that they're probably up to no good but they're just, like, a bit different.
The majority of the public are silent scum in my experience. A good 50% will not entertain anyone who diverts one bit from what they consider normal. They lead narrow lives and are heavily paranoid. I know so many people from school/work over the years like that. Cowards who want to single out what they perceive as weak due to their own inner fear the pack will turn on them one day.
This article misses a few details and makes him out to be weirdly reclusive compared to a daily mail one I saw online.
Apparently he had a mild learning disability and was pretty shy but he still had a close circle of friends that he'd hang out with. Gonna go out on a limb and assume that these two were probably self-centered and "expressive" individuals who couldn't comprehend that their neighbour just being a little shy and not going out of his way to mingle with them must be because he's actually a pedo so therefore deserved death
They’re smackheads. Look at them.
They look like a couple of borderline jakies.. heavy drinkers, probably unemployed, thieving cunts. Probably went round to rob him or take advantage of him and it escalated to this.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if these people genuinely thought that they were doing some sort of heroic act of justice. These kinds of people always seem to think they're in the right and that the best way to deal with a "suspicious" person is some explosively violent outburst because the police don't do enough or whatever other excuse they can think of. Probably got a fried brain from drugs and no critical thinking skills
christ i mean who the fuck talks to their neighbours? The rule is keep yourself to yourself. And looking at these two why the fuck would anyone want to stop and talk to them?
Pretty much. Thick as pigshit, junkie scum and a poor man loses his life in horrific circumstances due to it.
Mentally handicapped Polish man whose life came to an end because of false pedo allegations.
You'd think we'd learn our lesson after the Lesley Molseed incident.
I just looked this up. For anyone who doesn't know the aforementioned story, here is the basic run down:
Shortly after Molseed was killed, four teenage girls came forward and accused Kiscko of exposing himself to them the day before the murder.
.
Lesley Molseed had the mental age of a seven year old.
.
the four girls who said Kiszko had exposed themselves admitted they had made it up “for a laugh.”
.
He was psychologically damaged by his time in prison (16 years), and died of a heart attack the year after he was released.
From my limited research, when the girls confessed to the lie (who were then Adults), they never received any punishment, despite not coming forward earlier. (Please correct me if I am wrong).
Compensation was also never fully received because both Kiscko and his mother had died, presumably as a result of all the extreme stress.
Holy crap.
Just looked this up out of curiosity, his mother's protests at his innocence were stonewalled by her MP, who was Cyril Smith - I know they were only allegations but I still think this deserves a "you couldn't make it up"
Quite a fucking harrowing story and this is exactly the sort of shit we risk when paedo hunters are lauded in any way.
Those girls should have gotten life in prison
They've never shown remorse either.
From the case, in regards to one of the women:
"she also refused to apologise"
Yup. Utter disgusting individuals. She should have been jailed and the fact that all of them got away with no punishment, even when 2 of them were of liable age (16+18) is a clear failure of the law.
Forget the evidence
Who TF plans in advance to go and torture someone?
You'd literally have to have my kid held captive before i started thinking about torturing you
These were just two psychos that made up a bs charge to undertake what they planned to do whatever the reason
Because, and I paraphrase any number of posts on this very sub, "paedos deserve everything they get and worse". So if you think someone is a paedo it becomes ok to be brutal towards them.
In the schemes and estates there's plenty of demented women who love to watch gore in their spare time whilst being out of their faces, gore is a big turn on to the scum. I was a policeman in Edinburgh for a while and the things I've seen in the schemes more closely resemble the old clan laws.
In the story I read on this case yesterday it explicitly said he had learning difficulties.
Yep and they thought it would all be justified because he APPARENTLY, with no evidence, was accused of being a pedo.
It's insane how all it takes for a guy to get murdered is to accuse them of being a pedo because everyone is just jumping for he chance to hurt someone under the pretext of " but he's a bad guy!"
Its groupthink at its worst and shows exactly how lynching happens the world over. There's a group in society who are bloodthirsty pure and simple.
Vigilante culture, is awful, yet still so many support it. Hope they both never see the light of day again
There should be a satirical comedy about a vigilante superhero who goes around kicking the shit out of vigilantes.
People love the idea of it, along with things like the return of IS style public executions. I doubt many have seen death, and genuinely wouldn’t be able to handle it.
But one fantasies people openly talk about are disgusting.
Plenty of below comments about "vigilante justice."
Sounds as though this has nothing to do with this case. He had complained about his neighbours making a noise, then they showed up, tortured and murdered him.
The ramblings of two crazed murderers mid act doesn't make it "mistaken vigilante justice."
There’s no evidence he made any form of formal complaint about his neighbours, he complained to a cafe owner. I’m not sure how that in turn causes them to turn up and kill him without it being some kind of vigilante action.
The article is short on detail but you're right that this noise complaint seemed to happen just before his murder so I doubt it's where this all started.
Let's all make unsubstantiated claims at each other.
This is exactly what vigilantism opens society up to. Two nutjobs emboldened by tales of vigilante justice, no doubt. They clearly justified their actions by fabricating the idea that he was a pedophile, then took it upon themselves to deal with it. This is precisely why vigilantism is bad.
"The women had no evidence Mr Koszyczarski was a paedophile and South Yorkshire Police uncovered no wrongdoing"
The actual fuck?
Reading between the lines, they were just violent bullies who wanted to beat and rob a vulnerable guy for "being a bit odd". This isn't anything to do with vigilantism; it's just plain, old-fashioned violent bullying.
Vigilantes are famous for ensuring that they have all the evidence necessary to come to a proper verdict before forming a lynch mob.
Clearly, it's a hate crime, motivated by misandry. Women need to call their mates out when they make sexist jokes or objectify m-
Oh, I guess we're not doing that nonsense this time around.
Candle light vigils for this man around the UK and lots of media pieces about the 'violence against men and boys epidemic', I'm sure.
It’s a bit like when a man goes missing versus when a women goes missing. One gets headlines and appeals the other gets ignored.
The press coverage given to female victims reinforces the idea there is an epidemic of violence against women.
In reality your risk of getting murdered in this country is much much higher if you are a man and if you are a child it’s about 50/50 which gender will murder you.
I’d say it’s plain old fashioned violent murder (if proven)
This is one reason I never support calls for mob justice. Seen too many cases of innocent people getting targeted. Imagine for a second walking the street, and you get mistakenly identified by one of those pedo hunter groups. They come at you live streaming onto Facebook, camera rolling. No matter how much you deny it, thousands of people will see it and assume your guilt with no valid evidence. Your life could be in danger, your job and family could be at risk. Even if you get confirmed as innocent, most won't care and will still see you as a pedo.
Hope they get life with a 20 year minimum.... Make a proper example of them.
I really think any decent government should make it a priority to teach children some critical thinking skills. It's scary to think people have no understanding of the fact that they can be wrong.
Governments will never do that because then it will be easy to see through their tactics and blatant lies whenever they are asked a straight question about anything.
I have no faith that an incoming Labour government will massively change that either because I think politics and political debate in our country is fundamentally broken, but I'm open to being pleasantly surprised.
This is true. Governments lie all the time to the average person using a similar tactic. When did a politician last ACTUALLY ANSWER a question that was asked of them? Seriously, I'm waiting for an answer 😂.
Judging by a thread here the other day about Philip Schofield, anyone doing anything perfectly legal can considered be a paedophile and deserves to have their life ruined.
It will be interesting to see the outcome of sentencing… I have a suspicion it will be egregiously light.
Probably out in less than 5 years assuming they even go to prison at all.
Older guy with health issues, little friends, living alone (falsely) accused of being a pedo vs 2 middle aged women. Not high hopes but maybe I’m being overly cynical.
And some people will still claim misandry doesn’t exist.
The two women are probably only fucked up because of the patriarchy (/s)
no doubt the women will have supporters too
'he must've been a nonce'
'they had their hearts in the right place'
'if the police did their jobs this wouldnt happen'
-typical excuses
Don't forget the old "there's no smoke without fire!".
Happy to correct you - they will get life sentences, that's not in question as they were convicted of murder. They have already gone to prison and will not be coming out at sentencing.
They *may* get a low tariff (though the guidelines would suggest they won't) but from the sounds of it they won't find it easy to persuade a parole board that they are safe without a lot of intense work - which doesn't happen quickly (if at all) in our broken prison system.
A quick look at the guidelines suggests that if they brought a knife and intended to use it the starting point is 25 years. There will be some aggravating factors I suspect on top of that because of the man's vulnerability, and because they filmed themselves torturing him.
They may have mitigation (they may themselves have learning disabilities, or addiction issues, not intending to kill, etc) but I very much doubt that will reduce it massively from the starting point.
Feel free to come back after sentencing and after reading the judges comments, which will break down the various factors - and then complain about lenience if you feel it is still valid.
That's not how sentences for murder work.
Hope they get life with a 20 year minimum.... Make a proper example of them.
Horrific. Torturing, killing, and filming an older man for absolutely no fucking reason. Just horrific.
And that's why people should never call for murder when a man is accused of being a paedophile. I see this far too often on Reddit...
If it's a crime involving sex or children, you're automatically assumed to be guilty, especially if people don't like you.
It's known as "the Prince Andrew Clause".
We should not be murdering a person even if they ARE a pedophile. Pedophilia is a mental illness. It should be treated that way.
People aren’t ready to have a grown up conversation about it. If these people had more access and encouragement to go to services to help them with their problems less children would be harmed. It’s staggeringly obvious.
Totally agree on this.
Using the excuse of vigilantism , these two nutters murdered a guy!
This is a harrowing read. RIP to the chap and I hope his family can come to terms with it all.
A couple of things that never fail to shock and sadden me are: 1. Despite being covert, using unmarked vehicles, normal clothes, etc., the whole neighbourhood always figures out that police have been to an address, and somehow always figure out that it's related to child sex offences. 2. The abuse and immediate danger these suspects and their families endure is staggering, despite sometimes, the investigation turning out to be a false alarm or a malicious accusal.
People get driven from their homes, innocent children attacked in the street and ostracised from friend groups, school, or clubs. Family members are threatened and attacked, cars set alight, windows repeatedly put through, items stolen, etc..
Nobody likes a nonce, right, I get that. But the witch hunt on people's families is just bang out of order, and children in particular should never, ever be caught up in all that.
We even have a big problem trying to stop people attacking the NEW OWNERS of houses previously occupied by sex offenders. People are just dumb as fucking shit, and when they get together or wear masks, they become dumb and reckless as fucking shit.
I've always liked Terry Pratchett's description of the intelligence of a mob being the intelligence of its stupidest member, divided by the number of people in the group.
Combine that with the kick that people get out of doing something like 'catching a nonce' (and the belief that they are justified in doing anything they want to anyone they believe to be so), the rush of power and the groups who monetise the process and it feels like things like this are pretty well inevitable.
Burned to death because of a rumour on WhatsApp
Sounds like a sexist attack. Would they have made an accusation against a woman?
It does a bit. If we're going to talk about femicide, then this sounds a lot like androcide. A woman in the same position wouldn't have been targeted, at least not for the same reason.
Women need to stand up and fight against this. It's an epidemic.
Will this crime be considered a hate crime based on sex?
No, because there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them picking on him because he was a man - in fact it's not clear from the reporting what it was based on, but more likely it will be his vulnerability, or being 'different'.
That will undoubtedly be an aggravating factor at sentencing, and would be whether he was male or female.
These evil women. They beat a disabled man to death, they should never be released
Horrible cunts. Not a shred of evidence yet they took his life because they wanted to. Absolutely vile people.
Read this yesterday.. couple of absolute scumbags who belong in prison for a very long time.
Murder is reprehensible enough without murdering someone vulnerable like this man or a child. No surprises to hear they turned on each other immediately. Thankfully the jury spent fuck all time finding them guilty.
The problem with vigilante justice is that most of the would be vigilinates are actually terrible people themselves who don't care about 'justice'.
If they don’t get 20+ years I swear I’m gonna go crazy
Start buying wall padding.
All of the “hang the nonces” types have the potential to be as cruel and stupid as these two. Justice is supposed to be delicate and thorough. To think that you alone have the power to decide someone is a pedophile and then to torture and kill them is arrogant as fuck.
Horrible, fucked up thing to do to a person. If there’s a hell, it’s where these two are going.
I’ve always had an issue with these hunter groups. They live stream stings and upload to FB for likes. I guarantee you 100% if FB didn’t allow them to post they would stop doing it. They say they work alongside the police, ok, set up your stings and pass the information to the police then, you don’t have no name and shame people publicly especially before a court case or conviction.
Would you rather bump into a wild bear or two women in the woods guys?
And people wonder why I say humanity is going down in flames?
Promise both of these creatures were junkies. It’s always fucking junkies who do this shit.
Toxic femininity and false accusation culture is on the rise and somebody needs to stop it because it’s basically a modern day witch hunt
Notice they used a homophobic slur too. There’s an increasing amount of people referring to gay men as ‘pedos’ and stories like this are going to be more and more common.
Where we’re going is utterly terrifying
Give me 20 and put them on the sex offenders reg just for karma.
Damn, dude looked really good for his 60s. I hope they both rot in prison for the rest of their miserable lives.
I really dislike people who call themselves "pedo hunters", they are basically thugs who are getting to indulge in their favoured gruesome past time by justifying that their victim was already a POS. We have jails for them where they will get beat up plenty day after day and not escape... Is that not enough?
Maybe they should have concentrated on the grooming gangs of South Yorkshire and done some real good 🔪
Unfortunately, this is wrong. I agree that paedophiles should have stronger sentences even castration possibly execution bit 2 far that last 1 but imagine if they were your kids
This is what people do nowdays. Their minds are controlled by these culture war bullshit takes so they label anyone they don’t feel fits their narrow world views - the irony is they vote for the people who endanger kids the most in society time and time again and really have little to no care for real child victims of sexual abuse.
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And this is why vigilante violence and calls for it are wrong.