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This thread is for asking questions that, for whatever reason, you don’t want to ask in a thread of their own. If you think you have a “stupid question”, ask it here. Any and all questions regarding lore or the community are permitted.
Responses must be friendly, respectful, and nonjudgmental.
They're somewhat similar but it just seems to me a rotting corpse is less preferable as opposed to a vampire body which while also undead, doesn't seem to rot. Is it just because vampirism got fleshed out in more recent stuff and the lichdom lore is older? I haven't played any ESO so forgive my ignorance but I think there's a massive vampire presence in ESO from what I know.
You know the hammer fell sword singers? They summon the Shehai blades? I am very curious if it’s technically a lore friendly thing for one to summon a dremora lord of some sort in battle
Why does Almalexia have so little written on her teachings? This is a question that has bothered me for a very long time. There are entire tomes written on Vivec, and Sotha Sil was expanded upon greatly in ESO, but Ayem only has a few children's fables to her name. Far from the world-bending words of her counterparts on the Tribunal. Recently though, I think I've discovered why there's comparatively little written on Almalexia, her true teachings are banned by the temple, or at least heavily restricted to all but the most well-learned temple scholars. Allow me to elaborate.
According to the book From Exile to Exodus when Trinimac and his followers confronted the Velothi, Boethiah took the mantle of Trinimac from the god himself, leaving Malak in his place. However, there's no indication that Boethiah ever abandons or otherwise loses the mantle of Trinimac.
This divine usurpation reframed convention. Now instead of an angry Trinimac killing his sworn enemy Lorkhan, Trinimac now was tasked with killing the one she loved for the sake of his divinity, the Heart of Lorkhan. When the Tribunal murdered Nerevar at Red Mountain, Almalexia thus took that role and mantled Boethiah-as-Trinimac. This in my opinion is also why Ayem remained golden-skinned after the battle of Red Mountain, because she had become Boethiah who had become the golden skinned Trinimac.
This creates an interesting contradiction. Trinimac is seen by the temple as something of an adversary, preaching hatred of Lorkhan, and advocating weakness in responseto the loss of their divinity. But Boethiah is the exact opposite, a symbol of strength and love. Yet, Boethiah is Trinimac, and the true teachings of Almalexia almost certainly reflect that.
Indeed, according to the first sermon of the 36 lessons, the teachings of Trinimac are explicitly labeled as forbidden. The reason for this is simple, they are likely banned because they are dangerous in the hands of someone who lacks a deep understanding of the Tribunal Temple. Were the uninitiated to see the teachings of Trinimac attributed to Almalexia, it might very well lead that person down the path of heresy. To be able to truly understand that the teachings of Boethiah and the teachings of Trinimac are not contradictory, and are instead both referring to the same truth, you must understand the theology of the Tribunal temple.
To quote The Changed Ones "Trinimac was the strongest. He, for a very long time, fooled the Aldmeri into thinking that tears were the best response to the Sundering." To a neophyte, hearing this teaching attributed to Almalexia might cause them to fall towards Altmeri-thinking. A master on the other hand would know that tears are truly the best response to the sundering, for who wouldn't cry if they were forced to murder their lover?
This is just kinda something that's been nagging at me but why do the dragons follow certain elements, beyond just having a preference for one or the other and full on being locked in to a certain type?
In other fantasy media I do kinda get it, because generally in most media the powers of dragons are innate abilities for each dragon variant and not "the language they speak in" but in Elder Scrolls I really don't get it!
By the end of Skyrim's main quest's second act, the Dragonborn acquires Dragon Rend. Arngeir states that this particular shout is the result of tremendous oppression and hatred - all of this compressed into a single shout by those who suffered under the Dragon Cult's reign.
Arngeir states that by learning this shout, you'll be taking this hatred into yourself. Naturally, it makes sense from a lore standpoint that the Dragonborn would be changed by this experience. It wouldn't make sense for the DB to remain static after what, I presume, is an incredibly emotional experience. Shouts require an understanding of the Words of Power, as in the subject needs to internalize the meaning of that particular Shout.
As such, I believe the DB would be willing to kill Paarthurnax after learning Dragon Rend. A "radicalized" DB from the Dragon Rend experience would most likely want to punish Paarthurnax for his past crimes. So, I do believe killing him is canon.
Thoughts?
(Couldn't crosspost from r/Skyrim, hence the new post here)
I've seen some people claim this is a thing, but I'm not convinced. One piece of evidence they use is the Soul Magic skill line from ESO, but I have a problem with this. You have to do the base game's main questline in order to progress in that skill line. By the time you unlock the Soul Summons passive ability, you're already a Soul Shriven. So to me, it seems dubious at best.
I apologise for the hurried scrawl. But this is a matter of both the greatest urgency and importance.
In short, as per the title, we have been fooled.
Over time, it has become increasingly obvious that the Great Plan, as it was proposed by the Doom Drum, would take more and more of us than it initially seemed. I have recently and conclusively discovered that the effect is worse than that: in fact, it is much worse than any of our plans, estimations, or expectations.
It seems that some of our colleagues have been almost entirely diminished, or are set to be almost or entirely diminished, from plans set long in motion.
Due to this, I have been forced to admit that 1. This was by no means incidental, coincidental, or unexpected 2. The Doom Drum was fully or at least sufficiently cognisant of these risks and effects when he proposed to all of us his plans 3. We have been thoroughly and completely deceived.
It is therefore my conclusion that we are, to put it starkly, in plain and immediate danger.
In view of this, I and most of my team will make urgent plans for departure. By the time you read this, we will most likely be gone.
I sincerely apologise, once again, for my very substantial part in this. Please understand that I was as thoroughly and completely fooled as any one.
I understand that it is well too late to abort, much less reverse any or all of our plans. If you were to stay, I have but a humble request.
So, I recently asked the question of how are religions perceived by a random commoner living on Nirn. Though now, my curiosity has me wondering how, and most importantly, if, the metaphysics of the Elder Scrolls have a direct effect on anyone on Nirn.
I will not get into specific metaphysical, Kirkbride-y texts as it would be redundant to this question, but for the sake of making things easier, let's take the entirety of C0DA and assume it compliments everything that is 100% confirmed in-game lore in the sense that they both exist and function hand in hand. With both in mind, how would a peasant, farmer, blacksmith, or even noble, king, or emperor be affected by them?
I doubt the general population would be familiar with metaphysical concepts like CHIM (not as a name but as a concept), so how would stuff like this seem to be the bulk of what Nirn is about, especially considering all of the obscure stuff that goes on, affected these people in the sense that do they live there lives as normally as a peasant from, say, the Witcher series, would, or would life and its meaning have a completely different meaning and their perception of what the world around actually is be skewed.
In a very simple, short manner: would the world of Elder Scrolls be personified as a sort of "depressing, dark fantastical world" in the literal sense as in the inhabitants would also agree, or are metaphysical and obscure elements so uncommon that the lives of these people would, for the most part, be considered normal and like your average DnD world?
The common man engages in politics, but does so without a nuanced understanding the issues in which they passionately engage. This is because the commoner is not aware of what they do not know, and therefore, come to a conclusion about a situation based upon a surface-level analysis, without ever stopping to consider their inherent biases or the sheer amount of variables which may influence a situation. No, the common man, as are we all, are biased to simplicity. We prefer simple answers, simple solutions. But, pray tell, in a world where the greatest minds of our time spend their whole lives studying understanding even a specialized fragment of society, how could the peasantry disregard all things that they do not understand? Nowhere is this truer than in Skyrim, which I will be using as a sort-of case study, having previously written "I Choose Neither!", a critique of those who have refused to take a side in the Skyrim Civil War.
Aurbic Dialectics
In the beginning there was Anu, a cosmic force of order & consistency. Then came Padomay, an opposing, yet equal force of chaos & change. From them, in order to better understand themselves, their souls were born; Anui-El & Sithis. Together, they compromised and composed the conditions of the Aurbis. Anui-El then created a soul of themself which would become Auriel, who then stabilized the Aurbis by creating time. This resulted in the formation of the et'Ada, and subsequently, the creation of the planes of Oblivion & Aetherius for them to reside. Sithis would also create a soul for themself; Lorkhan, who intended to undo the work of Auriel, returning the Aurbis to chaos.
Whatever version of the creation myth you may know, you can find the same theme; progress was the result of two opposing sides clashing. A thesis, an antithesis, and a resulting synthesis. I have come to call this manner of thinking "Aurbic Dialectics."
Mundus Materialism
The form of analysis known as Mundus Materialism refers to an understanding of socio-economic variables and how social and economic factors influence each other. What this method of analysis teaches us is that the behavior of mortals and their beliefs are influenced by their environmental factors, or "Material Conditions," which include economic & societal factors.
Social Analysis
Societies where the Means of Production are privately owned are subject to a distinction between two classes; the noble class, and the peasant class.
The noble class is comprised of the Lord and their court. In a feudal system, private land ownership is only for the Lord, who may grant portions of their land to those loyal to them.
The noble class relies on the peasantry to work their land, gaining them excess riches while the peasant lives day-to-day. The peasant makes up an overwhelming majority of society and, be them farmers or craftsmen, they pay taxes to their landlord for the privilege to work the land. In return, their landlord promises to protect them.
Resultant of the Mode of Production as defined in the below economic analysis, a Superstructure develops; this refers to how a state's cultural, political, and legal institutions, along with prevailing ideas & ideologies, are made to fit with the Mode of Production.
Superstructure leads to a Cultural Hegemony of the noble class, able to enforce their interests and the flow of information, levied against the peasant class.
Economic Analysis
The Means of Production refers to the physical tools & resources used to produce goods & services. If they are held by the peasantry, they'd be able to work for themselves and earn the full price for their labor. If it is held by a noble, working becomes a privilege that can be revoked, and the peasant is forced to work for wages, no longer earning the full price for their labor.
The Relations of Production refers to how people enter into social relationships in order to utilize & access the Means of Production. This presents a standard the working peasant is expected to meet in order to participate in making a living.
The Mode of Production refers to all of the aforementioned factors combined; social relations, economic organization, and production methods.
Recognizing Class Relations
A prominent Mode of Production is what my colleagues refer to as "Feudalism," as we can see demonstrated to varying degrees across Tamriel. For my purposes, I will use Skyrim as an example for it is what I have the most experience with.
The economy is primarily agrarian, referring to the production of agriculture for consumption. Surplus goods may be bought & sold in local markets. Craftsmanship, i.e., specialized vendors such as Blacksmiths & Jewelers exist within cities. There are also rare examples of small-scale manufacturing. Land can be granted to a vassal in recognition for their services, although the land ultimately still belongs to the noble. The society is strictly hierarchal, and the Lord may provide land or position to those in return for their loyalty. In exchange for a peasant's labor and taxes, the lord is obligated to protect the land. Developing with this is the Superstructure; how the law, institutions, prevailing ideas, and ideology are developed alongside the Mode of Production to legitimize the current order. It also serves to control the access to information and enforces the lord's interests. This results in members of the peasantry adapting the ideology of their lord as their own, even when it is against their own interests. This phenomenon is referred to as a Cultural Hegemony or False Consciousness.
Altmeri Dialectics
If we were to take Aurbic Dialectics and apply it to the development of social and economic systems that is Mundus Materialism, one is able to achieve a deeply nuanced understanding of Tamrielic politics. This understanding grants us the knowledge of how to productively engage with the problems of our time. Combining these two is referred to as Altmeri Dialectics, or Auroric Dialectics.
I understand that the thalmor forces had been split up and weakened a lot by the imperials and nords , not only that they had lost a artifact.
But how does a society of magic users lose hard to one without its use? Things like invisibility
, teleportation, flight , enchantments , exc should be enough to turn the tides on their own right?
Shezzar, being the god of human undertaking and the imperial counterpart of the Meric Lorkhan, Nordic Shor, and a seeming combination of the Yokudan Sep and the HoonDing, seems completely forgotten in both Oblivion and Skyrim.
You would think, especially after the outlawing of Talos worship, Shezzar would take the place of Talos seeing how the Dominion's primary stated sproblem with Talos is the idea of a man ascending to godhood.
(Yes I'm aware the idea is that Talos "mantled" Shezzar, but that would simply mean that Talos IS Shezzar, similar to how the player BECOMES Sheogoeath at the end of Shivering Isles)
I have my eye on two things foreshadowed in TES5. The "Harrowing of the Hunting Grounds" and the Falmer returning to the surface.
The Harrowing of the Hunting Grounds is a hypothetical battle imagined by the ghost of Kodlak Whitemane at the end of the Companions questline where the Honored Dead of Sovngarde (presumably led by Lorkhan) would invade Hircine's realm of Oblivion with the intention of rescuing the souls of the Companions that were bound Hircine by their werebeast blood.
It could be an intense or battle or it could be a total slaughter. While the Nord heroes are mighty they'll be up against some of the finest hunters who've ever lived as well as thousands of werebeasts, in their own home where they'll hold every advantage.
And the in-game book "Falmer: A Study" makes the observation that the existence of the Falmer have gone from being a myth to common knowledge in recent years and every time their appearances have been becoming more frequent and organized. THe book ends with the hypothesis that they may be preparing for a great invasion of the surface.
While the Falmer don't appear to be able speak the common tongue anymore they are clearly intelligent, organized and preparing for war. Who knows, maybe they'll take advantage of the chaos of the inevitable Second Great War to invade a weakened and distracted Skyrim and finally have their great vengeance on the Nords.
So far I’ve only seen Cyrus’s saber as the closest thing to a rapier. Does this style of swordsmanship exist in lore? I guess IRL that takes place after the Middle Ages, which most fantasy is based on, just wondering if it’s seen in the lore somewhere
I’m trying to plan out an elder scrolls campaign using the new daggerheart ttrpg system. I am curious about what time period would work best as a setting. I would like for the game to fit into established lore from the games. So far I’m considering the second era because the dragon break lore would allow us to have lots of adventures without stepping on established lore.
Obviously Azura cursed the entire Chimer race for this and created the prophecy of their undoing, and Mephala and Vivec are connected in popular Dunmer myth, but would Mephala have been pleased with what the Tribunal had done since it technically follows her domain and teachings?
There's a ton of evidence to suggest that the Dunmer are anti-Imperial; they felt abandoned during the Oblivion Crisis, Redoran used anti-imperial sentiment to help justify throwing out Hlaalu, as far as I know the Imperials also didn't help them through the Red Year or the Argonians Invasion. Would that mean that the average Dunmer would take the Thalmor side in the recent conflict? Would the Thalmor's rigid views of religion clash too hard with the Dunmer people's also rigid view of religion too much to keep them from being sympathetic? What do you think?
I’ve just recently read C0DA for the first time, I’d like to think I understand SOME of it but I definitely don’t understand most of it.
I’ve read that Amaranth is achieved through love, and I didn’t quite understand how this works - CHIM is achieved by being faced with the reality of your non-existence and still having the strength to say I AM - You are now aware of the dream but also aware of your own existence and can manipulate the dream to your will. But then to enter Amaranth and dream a world of your own you need love? I didn’t get it.
In C0DA, Jubal, a being who lives the sermons and could be assumed to have achieved CHIM through this (I think?) and Vicec, marry, say “I, I, WE, YES” to one another, and then they have a child, the child being the representation of the new Amaranth being born.
So is this the love that is required? To birth a new dream you require the actual romantic love of another who has CHIM aswell?
Like if a Orc male got a Nord female pregnant how would the child look and how strong would the child be considering Orcs and Nords are physically the strongest races.
Would the Half Nord/Orc child be stronger than his parents?
I have basic understanding of Morrowind lore, but i still don't understand why they worship daedra.
I mean they stopped for a while to worship The Tribunal but got back to the old ways.
So there's 3 daedra they consider "good" Azura, Mephala and Boethiah, and Azura seems... ok? i mean she can be bad if she want's to but still she cares about dunmers. But Mephala and Boethiah are straight up evil.
Talos:
“Welcome, sweet Nerevar, to the court of Appointed Crown. I am here alone, that is, I sit beside my self and self, but we are all here together now. Do not be alarmed, I have not pulled you from your sleep to speak poison at you like the Demon Poet King, for though his words are spoken true, the water-face hears not the heart, or it’s intention. No, I call you here to ask of what you know too well already and to ease my guilt-swept mind of thinking with the wrong side. I have chosen you because I saw your face, when stabbed you were and wholly desecrated, by the 3 you held as family. What drew me in was not the act, the foul murder-plot of 3, devised in treachery and ill thought desire, nor was it their brutal thoughts, of wicked love and righteous blasphemy, that caught my waking eye. It was your face oh Nerevar, for though you were betrayed and thrice malformed, and though you were broken, bloody and with no hope, upon your face there was a smile, as if the only thing you saw were dearest friends who were your death.”
Nerevar:
“When at first I came into this palace of Digressions, I thought myself as out of place and saw no point for my awakening. Before me is an old and very proud speaker, whose voice is changing constantly. But I can see you have but 2 tongues and so I wonder.”
“Why do you sit here and lie.”
“Do not speak to me with honey covered vomit-speak, you putrid Wyrm of Mankind’s darkness. You wish to seek my favor by invoking the Two-Face-Lord, damn him to oblivion 3 times 3 for his blasphemy, but you are not as good a liar as he, and so this trap is known to me. All the same, I shall give you what you seek, rather, I shall give you what you deserve. You wish to know of Betrayal? The truest truth that is Foul Murder? Look no further than Talos, God of Men. Talos bah, I spit upon thy name. To Wulfharth my great battle-kin, I hope my blade was quick and sharp, I will use it now to part this meeting. Call on me again, foul spirit, and I will turn this blade on you.”
When the Aylied city states that sided with Alessia became vassal states of the first empire what happened in regards to slavery where they forced to abolish it or where they allowed to continue practicing it
Returning back again to once my favorite topic of orcs and their cursed nature I decided to start from the basics and reexamine the very book which explained origins of Gortwog's Orsinium. The book was first shown in "Morrowind", and I've always thought that it can be a legalistic propaganda trying to explain how Orsinium became one of the major players in the region. But now some inconsistency caught my eye.
First, let's look to the "Daggerfall" itself and two in-game letters written by Gortwog. One to the player character and another to lady Medora.
"You are not orcish. How could you possibly understand what it is like? My peopleare treated like barbarians. Slaughtered upon sight. Is it so unusual that we respond in kind? Violence begets violence. I aspire to raise my race from the mire. I will bring them to equal standing with the other races of Tamriel. To do this I must have the Totem of Tiber Septim. I will not insult you by promises that no blood will be shed. I do swear by my crown and by my heirs I shall not attempt to hold sway beyond the borders of Orsinium. My goal is not to conquer Tamriel, but to create the orcish homeland. I am in possession of an artifact that I am sure you would want to possess. It is yours if you but give me the Totem of Tiber Septim.*
-- Gortwog, Warlord and King"
[This parchment was used as a wrap for the packet of powder. Some of its message is now illegible.]
Lady Med...
...favor. They intend to slay him. I am sending ........ers to stop them. You must support me. If the empire finds I have attacked royal advisors of Wayr......ven if they are assassins,my people will never win the same status and respect as the Khaji................ians. However, with your support I c............. a hero of the empire, and win respect for my people.*
Betmer aren't respected in the Empire that much, but the position of orsimer is much worse. So Gortwog rightfully fears that the unsuccessful attempt to save Lysandus, one of few nobles who sympathized them, by attacking his killers will shatter the hope to raise his people at least on this level.
Both of these letters are completely in line with what we see in game. Orcs are monsters, who attack on sight. People like Lyzandus, Medora or Elysana are sympathetic to them, but we've seen people who are sympathetic to goblin-kin in ESO. It is seems to be on the same level.
But then we open "Orsinium and the Orcs"...
"He has ample documentation to make a claim on the land," the magistrate shrugged. "And the particular laws of our land do not discriminate between particular races. We had a Bosmer regency once, many generations ago."
"But what if a pig or a slaughterfish turned up demanding the property? Would they have the same legal rights as I?"
"If they had the proper papers, I'm afraid so," smiled the judge. "The law is very clear that if two claimants with equal titles to the property are set in deadlock, a duel must be held. Now, the rules are fairly archaic, but I've had opportunity to look them over, and I think they're still valid. The Imperial council agrees."
Words about "no discrimination between particular races" are strange, but given the note on "a pig or a slaughterfish" it's probably fine. But then...
"You didn't tell me you had an Orc in your household!"
"Sir?" whined the elderly specimen, turning to Lord Berylth, certain that he caused offense somehow.
"You mean Old Tunner?" laughed Berylith. "He's been with my house for ages. Would you like him to give you training on how to move in Orcish armor?"
"Would you like me to?" asked Tunner obsequiously.
Unknown to Berylith but known to him now, his servant had once ridden with the legendary Cursed Legion of High Rock. He not only knew how to fight in Orcish armor himself, but he had acted as trainer to other Orcs before retiring into domestic service. Desperate, Bowyn immediately engaged him as his full-time trainer.
We have this "old Tunner". Who seems to be a free orc, not a slave, just in servitude, despite his time in the Cursed Legion.
I've always wondered how religion-centric the lives of regular people are. Do they the knowledge (at least to some extent) that us the players have over matters of religion? Or is it more so like IRL religion where people generally have faith without the deities themselves being physically present. Do Daedra also meddle in just about anyone's lives? And if so is it regular for, for example, Peasant X, Y and Z from a random village in High Rock to know religious matters that we the player know?
I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out how any person in Tamriel would perceive religion and to an extent the world itself, because I assume their lives would change if such matters were common to the general populous.
