I think this might force CONMEBOL to invest in the semi-automated VAR lol
They assigned a ref to this match with a grand total of 6 international matches under his belt. They don’t care.
Who simultaneously played advantage while holding a yellow card in his hand.
Arguably worse than a lot of the refs in my high school games
Def worse. I reffed games when I was in HS and even I knew as a teenager if I were booking someone the restart is on my whistle.
I've been refereeing for 20+ years. The fact that play wasn't stopped on the booking is crazy. It's not something you should even have to think about as a ref. It's a simple/natural of procedure when you are showing a card - play is stopped. Period. That's like 1st year ref stuff when you are doing youth soccer. To see it happen at this level is absurd. That action by the ref alone would have my assignor re-evaluate my game placements.
I’ve watched a lot of football in the last 25 years and I’ve never seen that before, incredibly bizarre
I think that was arguably more egregious than the VAR call, I can only imagine what would have happened if that had gone in
It definitely was because the ref was simply ignorant of the rules. Especially when later in the game he denies US a clear advantage as Pulisic is breaking free after an Uruguay handball. Inconsistent with advantages on top of literally not knowing the rules, horrendous
Incredibly niche but the same thing happened between Gillingham and Mansfield last season, except Mansfield scored
https://youtu.be/BcwI6HSOGtM?si=0iV65eN_kLJBKwES
Happens 40 seconds in
The officiating was dog water at best
It’s worse than that. They actually did a quick restart. You can see the Uruguay player set the ball down with his hands and restart it.
And who had to be disciplined a few years back for giving a controversial pen... And after the game they discovered free t-shirts given to him by the team he gave the penalty to in his locker.
Complete shambles.
Imagine being so cheap that you can be bribed with a couple fucking tshirts.
the were FREE though, FREE!
No way they’d pay for it
Fixing games is much more profitable
Why would they want Panama to get through instead of the US
It’s significantly funnier than letting them go through to lose in the knockouts
Conmebol hate the US, but love their money. They still were desperate for cash from the last time they hosted this competition here. If you think UEFA is greedy as shit, you should see Concacaf/Conmebol.
They would get a lot more money letting Mexico and the US advance
Mexico can't score even if CONMEBOL wanted to rig it for them
If they wanted México to pass, they could've made the ref call a pen from the 50/50 handballs, there's no conspiracy
True, but the US was out even if the goal was disallowed, so all this bs "Conmebol wanted the US out for money" conspiracy theory doesn't even get past the "does it even make sense whatsoever" test
Exactly lol. These conspiracies are making zero sense.
I think between feeling hard done in in the Panama match has a lot of people trying to connect dots.
Panama we got 2 yellows and a red on 4 fouls vs Panama's 19 fouls. The uncarded hit on Turner that knocked him out. Then the laughable 4 mins of stoppage in the 2nd half when the Panamanian player took like 4 minutes to get off the field with his red by himself forget the 2 VAR checks.
Tonight obviously Adams getting a yellow for getting stepped on, yellow card + play on combo, twice stopping promising Pulisic attacks to take free kicks instead of playing advantage and then the goal.
But ya there's no monetary reason to knock us out. If it was about money those decisions should have gone our way.
The only monetary reason would be the referee's personal wallet. Seriously doubt it'd be some grand conspiracy.
Yeah, I don't think there has ever been a provable grand conspiracy in the sports world where a federation actively impedes a country from advancing. But individual referees have absolutely been paid off to call the game a certain way
Dont get me wrong, Conmebol oficials greedness has absolutly no limits, who know how much money under the table they got to basicaly drop the 2030 WC host pitch in exchange for 3 joke games, and there is a reason here we call Chiqui Tapia (AFA president) Chiqui Mafia.
That being said, I dont realy see a reason for them to hate the US, Its a huge source of money with very little threat (for now) of them winning something big over our top nations, if anything throwing a bone their way here and there would make more sense than to screw them over for no reason, Panama is not even a Conmebol team.
VAR was like, look do you want to fire Gregg or not?
How much you wanna bet this saves his job? "Look, if he hadn't been fucked by the VAR in the millionth game he's mismanaged as the US manager, he would have gotten the job done. Going forward, we expect that World Cup refs will not fuck him as he hard as he fucks the USMNT with his incomprehensible decisions and tactics".
Edit: job done, not job.
If the US had scored, it would be a halfway reasonable argument. But this was a must win game and they didn't score a goal.
They had 4 shots all game. Or something equally appalling. Absolutely dreadful display from the US
Gregg's biggest weakness has always been the attacking third. He has no ideas beyond the players trying to play heroball on their own which is why we rarely ever look like the attackers on the same page
It was a must win and mid game he was settling his players to go for a tie.
If the game ended 0-0, the USMNT still doesn't go through and he still gets fired
I feel like for big tournaments like these and so called top 5 leagues in Europe it should be a minimum requirement, imo. Just like goal line tech.
Tebas thinks otherwise though. His wages have also increased by 3 million in the past couple of years. Incidently, that's also how much goal line tech costs a year. It'll let you interpret that as you will.
Premier League will be implementing it later this year (after the first international break).
Something similar happened here in Argentina. Last year we didn't even have VAR in our national cup tournament (we have VAR in the league), but following massive controversies they implemented it ONLY from semifinals onwards. No one knows what happened with the 42 million dollars we won in Qatar.
Chiquito Mafia
Is the from official broadcast?
How shameless can they be
I've heard the comm team saying something like the ref thought it bounced of a US head
... The VAR ref?
CONMEBOL is broke they can’t afford it
They are not broke, but spending money on this means that there will less money to line their pockets.
I mean they're currently making a fortune. Not that I think they'll use it wisely, they've been making Concacaf look competent the past couple weeks.
No fucking way lmao
first time CONMEBOLing??
i’m more of a CONCACAF man myself
I too like to choke slam kellyn acosta
I've experienced a LOT of CONCACAF and I always thought they were the worst but after watching this match tonight, I'm having second thoughts.
They screwed over Jamaica too during the Ecuador game . Honestly fuck this tournament and the biased officiating and Var crew .
Next time Concacaf joins the tourney it shouldn't have Conmebol refs. Bring in some Asian/European refs so we get some clearly unbiased matches. American crews (both North and South) fucking suck at non-partiality.
It would be an interesting experiment to have UEFA refs at non-UEFA tournaments, but that would never happen.
It’s not even the right frame or am I crazy? The ball isn’t even touched the attackers head yet here
Which means a frame later, the attacker is even more offside
Exactly what I saw.. the attacker was in a clear offside position before the ball even came off the head
It isn't the right frame. FS1 just showed one where he's even further off. Not that it changes the fact we're out early.... But still.
The best part is this image from VAR is showing that it should have been given offsides. They rebroadcast the exact same frame 10 minutes later and literally just removed the little red area that shows his knee/leg as offsides.
lol I think Stu Holden actually called this out on the broadcast
I think he thought it was a different frame, saying something to the effect of "let's see if we get a different line", but it's the exact same frame, everyone is in the exact same positions, and line in the same spot they just deleted the red part that was on his leg from the 72min VAR shot when they showed it 83min
Had he headed the ball by that point? It looks like the instant before
That's exactly it, in the original frame shown it's a clear offside
lol yep cycled through frames until they found one they could justify
different camera angle too
mods removed that post lmao
Good analysis: https://x.com/offsidemodeling/status/1807968224383733761
Much closer than I thought, but it's definitely still offsides.
That’s the wrong frame, the correct frame for a headed ball is when initial contact is made, which maybe? seems to be the one shown. Not sure why literally everyone is wrong when the rule is clear
https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside
“A player in an offside position at the moment the ball is played or touched* by a team-mate
*The first point of contact of the 'play' or 'touch' of the ball should be used”
Not claiming it wasn’t offside cuz it’s hard to tell but the claim that the frame is wayyy wrong is nonsensical, it might be off by maybe 1 or 2? Either way it shows how dumb the current rules are and the fact that A) semi automated offside is needed B) the rule needs to be changed to have some small amount of leeway
*offside
If this had happened in one of our matches, sheesh I can't even imagine the media shitstorm that would have followed lol.
It's a shame this is gonna be lost in the discourse. the actual last point of contact was a frame after this and even more offside
Rule is based on first point of contact though
The rule is first contact though
First contact hasn’t happened in this still yet. It’s much easier to tell by video, it’s quite a bit after this.
The complete opposite of the Denmark vs Germany offside. Crazy :D
I don't trust these lines as much as the lines in the Euros though with the new technology.
I think there’s something fishy happening in this game. However. Panama has dominated Bolivia so it is not relevant anymore
Also doesn’t matter cause USA can’t threaten to score. No end product with the US.
Game was mismanaged from the start. Players knew they could tackle without repercussion so any advantage or rhythm was halted by a foul. Went both ways but still an ugly product to watch.
First 25 was exciting AF. Players were flying after 50-50s but that wasn't sustainable as we saw
Bro that’s literally been the case with EVERY game this tournament, this one was no different.
Yeah watching the euros and the copa have felt like 2 entirely different sports with what’s been allowed vs called
That’s how it’s always been
It's been fascinating as a long time copa america watcher seeing so many reactions to it thus time around that there's more eyeballs on it then usual. We're just used to the shit reffing custom to this tournament at this point and how physical it gets.
Tbf I'd rather watch these games than the France Belgium game this morning where both teams played like it was a friendly for some reason
Panama scored 6 goals and we scored 3.
US had some good stretches but at a certain point you gotta put the ball in the net.
These players just take too long to get the ball sorted at their feet for a shot. Any decent defense has enough time to close down the shot and put a block in. Also the constant floaters lofted into the box is pointless, even if the players could get a head on it they’re never getting enough power to trouble the goalkeeper.
The us had a clear chance with an open net but the player wanted to stop the ball first instead of kicking in it,thats amateur level error. You have an open net,you yeet the motherfuckingball. If it goes to the sky it was still worth the try
Yup, totally agree, even at that angle a top player with confidence in their ability is taking that shot not looking for a pass.
As a great man used to say: A lot of endeavor, not a lot of end product.
I thought the U.S. looked better and sharper than I've seen in a hot minute...until they broke into the final third. Lost all imagination and purpose at that point. Aside from the fellas taking wildly off-balance shots...
Officiating in the Euros is elite (apart from PGMOL lads).
VAR is pretty consistent. The refs I'm not convinced by. Many don't have a clear line.
Is the ball even hitting the head of the attacker yet in this frame?
No it isn’t on his head yet. I’m not sure why this is so far down.
There’s literally 1.5 more steps the Uruguay player takes before the ball is headed.
this looks like the re-released propaganda shot after the original var image. Sus.
Just by looking at
- where the set piece starts
- where the ball is
- the position of the player heading the ball
- and where the ball ends up
there’s literally no way the ball is being headed yet. It’s still slightly behind him, you don’t even need to have a better angle to prove it.
I don’t think it’s rigged, probably. I just think the refs are really bad. I’ve seen my fair share of terrible calls in CONCACAF to know this isn’t even that bad. But it’s still pretty wild how it took so long for them to somehow come up with the only thing that can slightly maybe barely cause people to this think was a good goal.
If they used that still shot he’d be offside. Can’t do that
Pretty sure hes offside here too lmao
Destroyed by our shitty camera
It's probably closer than I initially thought but I think this is a few frames too early.
This is such a clutch post.
They counted number of pixels on the boot to confirm it.
Wake up babe, Ronaldinho McDonald's new boot dropped
They are world feed cameras in an American football stadium.
Lmao it's at like a 20° angle. This game is bollocks
Lmao what you can clearly compare it to the straight lines on the field
This 100% cheapass Clark Hunt's fault
Whoever drew the lines on this was also responsible for drawing the border of the Balkans post-Yugoslavia.
Balkans shithousery in Copa as well. That’s impressive.
Just an awful performance from the ref and var tonight. However the US shouldn’t of put themselves in this do or die situation
I can be mad at both. A shitty performance in another tournament and a coach that needs to go can be a separate issue from how bad this referee has been tonight in only his 7th international game.
I agree, the coach really needs to go. They legit looked so much better under their interim coach when he was gone
Yeah, the officiating has been shocking, but we've been absolutely toothless as well. GGG gotta go.
I think Sykes and Picot are both in the VAR booth tonight
How do they pick which frame to stop it on? He’s offside one frame later and the guy is clearly still heading the ball
People shittin on the automatic offside tech at the Euros, but without it you get this...
Legally it's the frame of the initial contact with the ball.
I think its from the moment the player touches the ball
lol
I have never thought a game might be rigged until tonight
I've seen to much Riestra and Barracas Central matches to know its possible.
Insert “First time” meme.
Take a seat my friend lol
Why would they rig decision to benefit Panama/ Knockout the US?
I dont think its a decision to rig the game in favour of panama, could be as simple as the ref having money on the game. While speculation, its much more probable and makes more sense than the ref just being a secret panama lover for some obscure reason
Why would this be rigged against us? That makes absolutely no sense.
I think it’s just hard to fathom this level of incompetence
Edit: also maybe same reason why Donaghy rigged games in basketball, gambling debts and personal gains
He's very clearly in the blue, insane
The guy from whom red line is drawn is not in the blue.
Its kinda inconclusive with this camera quality.
The Pre-VAR guideline was always that when it was too close to be certain, the benefit of the doubt went to the attacker... so fair enough.
Not sure how you can be sure either way with this shitty ass image lol
Yeah, this looks to be from the same planet that the camera was on for the first half
You are looking at the wrong player who wasn't involved. It's not so clear
The scorer is NOT clearly offside, the other player that was not involved in the goal is however
The review was so long because they had to find any angle to cast doubt
Yeah watching the clip that’s now deleted, it’s so obviously offside. It’s impressive they were even able to create this image.
Mods === the referee crew from last night
why are these getting deleted?????
Because it "sows discourse"
Dehance. Dehance. Dehance. Perfect.
That’s exactly it. Keep changing the line until he’s onside
Exactly, they found the "moment the ball left the head" based on what helped them, the foot is still and that knee is in motion lmao so clearly deliberate
The frame in this post is literally before the header, it's ridiculous.
It looks like the ball hasn't even struck his head yet
Exactly what I’m thinking
Another reason to hate the chiefs and their dog shit stadium
The sideline being tiny, the camera being on mars. Horrible choice
Cheapest nfl owner in the league so he dont care
Have you heard of the Bengals?
Chiefs have won 3 titles in 5 years and with all that money theyre "begging" loval government for money on a new stadium. Thats being cheap af. Yes, the Bengals have been one of those teams not to spend but not at this level
Can anybody explain why are they using NFL stadiums when there are like 35 mls teams with football stadiums?
Capacity. Children’s Mercy Park (the MLS stadium in KC) fits about 18.5k fans. The largest MLS stadium that isn’t used primarily by another sports team seats 30k. Arrowhead fits over 76k fans.
People will see goals like this allowed and then immediately complain about a toe over the line from the automated offsides.
Seriously.. atleast semiautomated tech is fair in its decision.
It’s literally the only part of the game that’s black and white and, with use of the right technology, can always be called correctly and quickly. It’s crazy that anyone would be against it.
Personally, I'd like to see the rule moved to torsos.
Striker’s knee is in red?
Looks like a 2nd grader did this
He’s literally IN the blue, no???? Am I just fucking blind???
I think his knee is
I swear his knee is offside
Ya no way Robinson’s toe is playing him on. This seems off
Its not the back guy who gets the ball, its the red line on the middle Uruguay player
Wrong guy.
User deleted comment
5d
look at where the ball is on the head here compared to the other still, someone in VAR seems to have pulled the frames back so the player would be onside.
edit: If first contact is the actual rule, then very possible he's onside given how close it was, but feels like they should be able to have a clear frame where the ball is first hitting the head (unless the frame rate of the VAR camera is like 24/30fps, which would be awful from a technical standpoint)
edit 2: images in question that made me question the decision.
This still doesn’t even look like he’s headed the ball yet.
His arms are still bent like he’s preparing to launch his head forward.
Exactly this
That ball hasn't even reached his head in that shot. Ridiculous
Terrible angle honestly
Blame the ref and the shit camera angles from this stadium lol
ITT: People who have no idea what happened in the actual game for some reason. Why are you talking about the wrong guy?
There’s a comment with like 500 upvotes complaining about the player higher up “being in the blue”. Fucking hell
I think they actually took it at least a frame before the ball was actually headed.
CONMEBOL always outdoes UEFA when it its this kind of thing.
Danish American here - I want to fucking die.
There’s dozens of us!
Not to mention he’s further offside when the ball is actually played. That’s when the ball is arriving
Nah.
The attacker and defender's feet are essentially in-line, but Olivera's knee is clearly in front of his foot, for what should be enough to clear the offside line.
Clear offside to me. I don't understand how it isn't, with this line.
What a joke…
Am I crazy or is that not parallel with the 6 yard box?
Just ignore me
parallel lines in reality connect in the horizon line due to perspective, so they are never truly parallel in camera
Because of the angle, it won’t be. The camera is placed right on the goal line. If you look at it, the goal line isn’t parallel to the 6 yard box aswell
It’s the weird camera angle. Just did the vanish point and it’s correct. Just ain’t used to this camera angle in real stadiums
That's not how perspective works...
This meme is hilarious but for context, bottom guy is the one who scored not top guy, so it is somewhat close. The line defo looks slanted tho
This frame is too early, heading player hasn't even directed the ball towards the goal yet
fault of arrowhead's crappy camera.
CONEMBOL laughing to the bank with their US ticket revenue
Oh I didn’t know the ALeague provided VAR support for the Copa
Playing advantage while issuing a yellow was something else but the late call back on the play on with Pulisic was equally perplexing. No excuses, they blew it against Panama and couldn’t muster anything against Uruguay.
That ref tho.
Thats a frame before he hit the ball
The ball hasn't been played yet in this image lol
This is not the point of contact
Mirrors / Alternative Angles
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