I liked the movie in general, but it seems there was some key dialogue that was mixed too low or was hard to hear. Am I the only one?
RE: Sounds like many on this board had a similar experience even in a theater. I watched it at home on a regular TV. I had previously watched Tenet the same way with no issue.
And it still sounds like shit in the best theaters. Nolan is known for saying it only works in the best theaters, but also saying he doesn’t want you to understand the dialogue, but be confused by the audio… like wtf…
That's just Nolan though. His priorities are weird as fuck. Villenueve's stuff has always been good quality as far as I've watched them.
Hence I fall asleep in Nolan movies and find them dull.
Guess what, his next film is about the creation of the loudest manmade sound ever created. How will he ever go and try and top that.
After Tenet my eardrums are scared
Oh for sure. Dune P1 is one of my favorite atmos tracks at home (didn’t see it in the theaters) but just saw part 2 in an imax theater and it was dope af. There was only one part in where I couldn’t understand one sentence, in the whole film. With Nolan, I have to watch that shit with subs on 😂
That's BS, good sound mix will sound great on older home theater systems too. It's all about the mix.
Look at the latest LOTR 4k release, it's new and the sound is excellent all around: nice, clear and loud dialogue, excellent ambient, taking full advantage of all channels, including Atmos.
Some movies just have shitty mix and it's baffling in this day and age. They mix it for TV speakers because that's what majority of people will use.
I'm just relaying what the directors said. I have no way to judge whether they're lying or not. :-)
(I found one of the original articles, so i added it to the comment above.)
This is true. If they cared to do it, they could put the time, money and effort into making a fantastic near field mix that plays well on most home setups. Otherwise the issue is with the director or whoever is calling the shots at the mix. These issues should not still be happening. It’s sad.
Both can be true.
I will anecdotally attest that I went to see it at a theater that had been updated this year and it sounded absolutely amazing all the way around. We had no sound issues whatsoever. It was an amazing and immersive experience.
I have totally experienced the opposite at older theaters though.
Which is crazy because Nolan is notorious for not supporting advanced sound coding like Atmos. So it’s not really true, you just need a 5.1 system with a really good center speaker for the dialogue
Nolan is the destroyer of good sound mixing. You can have the best crew in the world, but if the director chooses to mess it up there’s not much that can be done.
Yeah, that’s BS. It sounded bad in theatres and at home.
I mean, why else go to a theater?
Turning volume up to hear them talk SUDDEN EAR DESTROYING MUSIC
Interstellar was particularly bad in that regard.
Nolan movies are in general mixed to be heard at a theater and his scenes use an insane amount of dynamic range. It’s almost like you have to have a home theater with a dedicated center channel and also crank the volume. Tenet is about twice as bad as interstellar in this regard.
Also: BWWWWAAAAAHHHH!!!!
Which Dune had more than once.
The audio equivalent of a lens flare at this point.
I honestly couldn't hear a significant amount of the dialogue in Tenet watching it on a normal TV
I literally had to reconfigure my surround sound system to be able to hear the dialogue and even then I missed quite a bit of it. If you need to do that to watch a movie then it's a poorly made movie, audio wise.
Welcome to the 'sub-titles age'.
I had no issue with Interstellar. But Tenet was nearly unwatchable. I could not hear a single thing the actors were saying and with a movie like that it's crucial to understanding the plot.
with a movie like that it's crucial to understanding the plot.
I dunno, even with all the words I didn't know what was going on!
Nolan alone is why his movies sound so bad. If he left the pros to do their work the mix would work well everywhere. That theater excuse is all a lie.
I just saw it on a theater, and had the same reaction. So it's not just the "mixed for the theater" answer.
If you spent a couple of grand on a TV but don't have a centre channel you need slapping with a wet fish.
30% of your budget, minimum, should be going on sound.
Make it a wet fish full of cash so I can afford to be splashing out on new speaker systems and you have a deal.
Everyone is here complaining about not hearing the dialogue track in films.
My radical fucking solution is to actually listen to it and not mix it into the sound effects. 🤷♂️
I have a center channel, and a couch that is positioned at exactly the right distance for our tv size and speaker set up. I still had constant trouble hearing all the female characters, and frequent trouble hearing certain male characters. The sound design was gorgeous, they should get nominated for an Oscar in that category; the mix was way off, they should get slapped with a wet fish for it.
Was the same in theater. I just got home from seeing it and had the same problem.
Full surround sound setups are increasingly uncommon these days. Part of my business is installing home theater systems and full surround sound systems have gone from being a major part of our income to something I do once a month or less. Most people just want a good soundbar unless they're setting up a full home theater. There also quite a few people that go with just a soundbar and two rear channels.
It's neither my nor your loss. Centre channel is everything 🤷♂️
Tenet is far, far worse
This. It's been going on for decades.
That’s why I keep subtitles on all the time.
I do that, and I also use volume compression.
This is the way.
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My problem was that they were whispering to each other while sound effects and BWAAAAH shook the theater.
Which is strange since they are meant to be making the movie for people to watch and view. Nolan really seems anti streaming and seems to be having some bad flops now at the cinema and is angry about it, so expect more sound issues.
They could of course with their budget make different versions.
Not all. It’s a relatively recent phenomenon, same with the really dark movies. Absolutely shit audio mixing is now somehow the directors “vision”. People criticize Christopher Nolan for it, but they forget that it’s almost every movie made in the last 2 decades. Maybe it became popular because Nolan did it with massive box office movies? Either way, it should die in the fiery pits of hell. I don’t care how renowned you are, shit is shit, even if you gold plate it. And no, they don’t sound good in a perfectly tuned Dolby atmos theater either.
the really dark movies.
There were a couple scenes that were dark enough that I couldn't tell if I was supposed to be seeing something or not.
I‘m glad I’m not the only one. I feel like I’m going deaf sometimes. If I turn up the movie to where I can hear the dialogue the rest is way too loud. Even if I crank the center channel volume on my stereo it doesn’t really help.
It’s a relatively recent phenomenon,
Define recent. Because it's been happening since at least the late 80s (just getting worse over time.)
Every time I hear this (which is every time) I lobby for a separate dialogue track... you know 37.5.1 channels plus one little measly track for dialogue
Centre channel, add 6dB. You're set.
I do 8, but this is fantastic advice
Most people are far too far away from their centre channels, centre should be right there in front of you, maybe 2/3 as far away as the FR and FL so this is the main reason.
Now, on the subject of front speaker separati[--is yanked off stage by a giant Shepard's crook--]
In my HT install days I would recommend adjusting the center up one Db per seated foot away, but this is not necessarily the gold standard depending on speaker efficiencies, etc. But it always served me well.
It could be isolated and so much clearer. Then if you could adjust the dialogue and sound effects independently (possibly even normalized for your unique hearing range and compensating for deaf areas within) it could truly be a perfect experience.
Unfortunately there are still some booms in the center channel
Tenet. Tenet was ridiculously bad for sound
I thought I was just getting old and hard of hearing.
That's why I often take the german dub (even tho I'm perfectly fine with English) because it's often WAY louder than the original since it's recorded in a studio and edited in.
Same here. I'd prefer original but you really can't hear shit in English most of the time. Or risk suffering the scene change from dialogue to action, so I mostly watch films with voice-overs (this is usually enough as they are louder than original voices but I can still hear what is being said when I need to)
I really only notice that when I watch things on my tv, not so much in the theater. The only time I’ve noticed it in a theater was tenet, I’ve never understood that movie Bc I couldn’t hear shit
They design it this way as a really good sound system has the dynamic range to pull it off.
I have a cheap sound bar in my bedroom. I’ll turn the Apple TV to “reduce dynamic range”. Makes the speaking much easier to hear.
And it's why I haven't been to a theater in decades. Closing in on 60 and have nearly perfect hearing still, because I wasn't bloody stupid
The Titanic didn't explode, it broke in half.
Very quiet conversations, followed by titanic explosions.
That is how movies do. Conversations are supposed to be normal volume, and the loud stuff is supposed to be loud.
If you don't like it, just about every receiver and most modern tvs have a setting for dynamic range compression to normalize volumes. It could have a bazillion different names, so google your TV model or just look through the menus for anything promising.
If it is an automatic normalizer, it sounds like shit. If it uses Dolby metadata, it sounds good, but... I'm not sure if streaming services, or even Bluray releases, are even using this kind of metadata.
Other than that: Dialoge is supposed to be heard. If mixers can't pull that off for a home release, they simply fucked up.
If it is an automatic normalizer, it sounds like shit.
Sounds better than reading subtitles over inaudible mumbling. If you aren't willing to listen to the movie the way it was intended, you'll have to make some concessions.
Dialoge is supposed to be heard. If mixers can't pull that off for a home release, they simply fucked up.
Depends what the problem is. Use an SPL meter to set your base volume to 75 dbl. If you still can't hear dialog, then the mixers fucked up. I watched Dune at home and I think there were one or two times the music drowned out the dialog, but otherwise it seemed okay.
There was definitely some wonky audio with the dialogue especially with background noise. I usually watch movies with subtitles so it wasn't super noticeable, but I did catch a typo where Jessica was called "Jasmine" which confused the shit outta me.
but I did catch a typo where Jessica was called "Jasmine" which confused the shit outta me.
lol i saw that.
I watched at home and assumed it is my shitty center channel speaker. Was the theater experience the same?
Saw it in imax last night and seemed like same issues people are discussing for home
If you have a home theater system with a center channel, use your AVR to boost up the center louder than the others.
Most/all dialogue is through the center channel. Most ambient sounds (the explosion and loud shit) is the stereo left/right and the surrounds if you have em.
Boost the center over the LRS. That way you hear dialogue well, without the action blasting you
My center is boosted 4-5 db all the time. Some dialogue was still inaudible.
Some movies just have bad mixing
Same here. My husband boosted ours a few years ago to get the system right for most movies and us as individuals. It was ridiculous how whispery Rebecca Ferguson was, along with Zendaya's exposition. People are commenting 'boost the center more' but at a certain point you shouldn't have to keep messing with the center channel. If it has to be that much different from the other speakers, then the movie is wrong. Boosting the center so much isn't reasonable, yeah we can do that but we shouldn't have to, it shows that the mix is off.
Try 10-15
Yeah, that's probably what I'll have to do. But that ruins properly mixed movies, like LOTR remaster because the dialogue becomes too loud
YOU SHALL NOT PASS!
We both had issues hearing dialogue in the theater. Will watch at home with captions on, to see what we missed.
I just came back from an IMAX, and while there were certainly moments when lines were* quiet, those tended to be quiet thematically. I.e. whispers not intended to be fully heard.
I didn't have any trouble hearing any dialogue between characters. But maybe the sound system at my local AMC Imax is good enough.
I must say my theater experience was worse than my home cinema experience. I do have a really nice setup, though. I could understand everything without being crushed by the sudden music.
I saw it in theaters, still had that issue.
go to the theater and see it by yourself, sound is pretty amazing imho
For all the folks shitting on people for having low quality at home speakers, I saw this movie at an IMAX movie theater with supposedly highest quality sound system for a theater experience. I still could only hear every other word of the Litany, and couldn't make out any words from the vision scenes. The movie is mixed poorly, period.
Had the same experience today the music was very.....intense
Felt like I was being stabbed.
Thx, first theater review. It's like, you had an extra year to get it right!
Seen it at home and in two different theatres and it was better at home, with my center channel up +6db
Same experience for me at IMAX. Lots of points where the dialogue was inaudible over the sound effects or background music.
The IMAX "wall of sound" drowned out some of the dialogue from visions (and the Baron's murmurings) but that's what captions are for on the second viewing!
but that's what captions are for on the second viewing!
Please tell me you're not trying to sell that this is something to be excited about.
Okay I just got out from the century xd theater and the sound was impeccable. Not at one point was the dialog drowned out. So it must depend on the theater. I am blown away how good it sounded.
That's strange, I've just arrived home from the IMAX theater and the sound was amazing. Loud, sure, but I had no issues hearing the dialogue
Seconding this for my IMAX experience as well. There was maybe one or two lines of dialogue I couldn’t hear clearly at most.
I watched it at imax and heard everything fine lmao
But you wouldn’t have noticed as IMAX doesn’t have subtitles bro. Seen it both ways. There are clearly times that there is inaudible dialogue, or at least subtitles where there is no spoken word.
Hey I have seen IMAX movies with subtitles. I like having subtitles so will always choose that showing if it's available at the cinema.
It got the Christopher Nolan audio treatment?
Nowhere near as bad. There are just a few dreamscape type sequences where its hard to hear the snippets being said and Paul is muttering to himself in a fugue where its hard to make out what he's muttering.
Majority of it is perfectly fine
It's intentional too which I think is more forgiveable. You just kinda get a glimpse into what he's seeing.
Yeah it didn't bother me at all really, although I can see why some people are unimpressed with it. I've watched some pirated Blu-ray rips where you're constantly turning the volume up and down, and I watched tenet in theaters. Both of those are awful and Dune, although definitely not perfect in the audio mixing, wasn't even in the same ballpark as how frustrating it is to watch the former two situations.
Yeah, a lot of people are annoyed about not being able to hear Jessica recite the litany of fear, but I get the sense you weren't really supposed to hear it in its entirety. It was environmental sound rather than dialogue, intended to elicit general emotion, like a chanted prayer in a church mass scene.
It didn't bother me because anyone who knows Dune well knew what was being said, and people who don't know Dune probably wouldve scratched their heads at it had the scene been more focused on it.
This is a perspective that is often missed. Sometimes it's completely on purpose because they don't want the viewer to hear everything. Mumbling while high as a kite isn't going to make much sense.
It was pretty bad in parts. They butchered the Litany of fear of all things!
Yeah, Max volume, couldn't understand literally a single word
So I'm going to see this in a theater, then immediately come home and re-watch it on TV so I can get subtitles?
Yay...
Find the showing that has subtitles. It's often in the middle of the day though.
For what it's worth I saw it in a perfectly middle-of-the-road cinema, and missed maybe a few words here and there. The dialogue was a little low at points, but not problematically so.
I saw it in a cinema with Dolby Atmos and I didn't particularly notice any issues with the sound either.
Nope, the sound was off the entire move - I had to keep adjusting it.
I had to listen to it with headphones due to family sleeping. Not sure I want to watch it any other way now. Totally immersed in the world and can clearly hear every word. And with my terrible hearing I probably wouldn't be able to hear half of it with all the deep/low tones.
Watched it twice already.
Patrick Stewart compensated in Lynch's version by yelling "ATOMICS!!".
I had the same issue. Plan to rewatch with subtitles.
Yeah, I require subtitles. Too much mumbling.
I thought I was going nuts. Normally don’t have this problem. Turned my system up twice as loud as usual and then got ear blasted
T’was shit. Had to turn on subtitles and fiddle with my atmos sound system.
In the end it was more about the visuals anyways.
Yeah that’s the excuse they use for purposely shitty audio. Bad excuses for shitty “art” choice are all it amounts too.
I saw it in IMAX, definitely missed stretches of dialogue. Watching at home after with headphones on helped tremendously, but I did miss out on the grandeur of music and intensity of The Voice.
This is why I will gladly watch this at home on HBO Max, with subtitles.
Dennis did say he watched Tenet "many times" last year ... maybe he fell in love with indecipherable dialogue.
Having watched Tenet for the first time three days before Dune, I will say that while Dune may have one or two indecipherable moments, Tenet was a BILLION TIMES worse. I couldn't understand ANYTHING without subtitles on. Dune I would give an 8/10 on the dialogue understandability. Tenet was a 2/10, but only because Interstellar was worse, somehow. Tenet gets an F, Interstellar gets an F-. Dune was a B+.
I'm saying this because I loved Dune and I don't think it's fair to compare it's minor issues to Nolan's purposeful garbled bullshit.
Yeah, thankfully he didn't learn indecipherable plot and motivations as well as dialog from that movie.
Huh, I didn't notice this issue when watching at home on HBO Max last night. We use our stereo plus the tv for sound, maybe we accidentally got the perfect set-up for this type of issue? Normally I notice and hate uneven sound mix, but since we started using this dual sound setup I guess I haven't noticed it as much.
I saw it yesterday in theatres and yeah, I had difficulty hearing some of it. It was just in a regular theatre not IMAX or anything special. I figured out was because I was tired and anxious and my ADHD was kicking in.
I saw it in imax. There was one section were I found the dialog was very hard to make out, when Paul was having his vision in the tent. Thankfully he repeated a lot of sentences so I ended up getting most of it. But other than that I found the sound very good.
Edit: now that I'm reading the other comments I also remember/agree that the litany was another one that mostly got lost.
Felt the same way, thought “ damn, am I at that age where I need subtitles?” Lol
I had my runner pumped way up, didn’t notice. I also told my family to shut up and leave me alone while I’m watching.
I honestly don't even go to the theater anymore with this being a large reason. I need subtitles.
I only found it to be a issue during a few scenes. Not that big of a deal really.
Yeah the dialogue mix on HBO Max was shit. I constantly had to turn it up and down.
There was lots of whispering. Thankfully, I watch everything I can with subtitles.
this is why I'm glad it's on HBO Max. I can use headphones! And subtitles
Holy crap YES. A lot of the dialogue was just buried in the mix under the unusual (but cool) discordant music Zimmer made and the other sfx.
After watching, I told my wife that was a big negative in what was a really good adaptation.
Eta: We saw at an AMC in Dolby Digital.
Yes, the projector is still on. But apparently not a loud enough dialogue track.
Not as bad as some of the writing… when Paul asks Lady Jessica “are you good?” I cringed. Totally took me out of the scene when they race to the rock.
Yes, dialogue sound was awful on IMAX. They really fucked up Litany against fear. If I didn't know it by heart and from having read the novels I wouldn't be able to make out a single word. Amateur shit.
Do you have a 5.1 sound system? People get big TVs but use the onboard speakers, it's such a shame because sound is often more important in making a scene work than the visuals
I'm just the opposite, I have this old-ass 32" TV but have a 5.1 sound system.
I do. I have a big ass TV, a 5.1 sound system that was positioned with a laser measuring thing according to the audiophile rules, a couch that was poisoned with the same laser thing according to the same rules, the sound was calibrated with some thing that makes super annoying sounds for about half an hour, the tv was color calibrated with the same device used to calibrate our computer monitors. Basically, my husband who is an audiophile, has software programming as his day job and professional photographer as a second job has done ALL THE THINGS. We still couldn't make out most of what Rebecca Ferguson said and lost important lines from various characters throughout the movie. Good thing we've both read the book multiple times, have the old movie, and the limited series. We were able to piece together what they probably said from memory. The mix is off.
The accents of some of the actors made the dialogue unclear, also what you mentioned. Sound mixing and subtitles
Well, I noticed this also. Watched a pirated copy. I used headphones so as not to disturb the rest of the house so I could have it turned up a bit. I needed to turn this up more than most movies for this exact reason.
There were a couple points where I wasn't sure if I was hearing English or whatever the foreign language was.
I always subtitle, but agree there were some hard to hear parts.
I moved a chair close to the TV and cupped my hands to my ears trying to hear dialogue without blasting the sound.
I was trying to watch this movie quietly the other night when everyone was in bed. Very hard to do, kept turning it up and down all movie. Gonna go see it in the theatre this weekend
I watched it last night. He wasn't credit but Christopher Nolan had to have been involved in the sound mixing.
Every time I hear this (which is every time) I lobby for a separate dialogue track... you know 37.5.1 channels plus one little measly track for dialogue
Modern sound mixing is in the fucking toilet.
It smells
I’m watching it right now. I literally have my volume at 70 and can barely hear the dialogue still. For reference, I watch most things comfortably around 20-25. And then some sound effect or action scene hits and I immediately have to turn it down to around 20-25. That is terrible mixing if I’ve ever seen it. I can already tell this movie is gonna be a pain in the ass to get through, constantly switching my volume between 75 to 25 and back to 75. This is ridiculous idk if I can do this. It’s unfortunate because I heard it was actually a good movie.
I agree. I definitely hear the audio punching in and out when actors are exchanging dialogue it’s kinda annoying and it’s really noticeable when you’re watching the film at a lower volume.
Doesn't it depend on the theater you watch it at?
There were times subtitles were in screen showing dialogue that just simply was not there.
I don’t think that was a sound issue; there’s a few scenes where characters are communicating with sign-language.
The worst scene for me was when the reverend mother went to meet with baron harkonen, the whole first half of that scene was quiet while the subtitles rolled.
I thought that was intentional cause they were in the cone of silence? We weren't watching with subtitles on (in general) but that section was subtitled (like with the sign language or foreign language sections).
translation: I watch a movie in my tv and expect cinema quality, omg! what is happening!? lol
Being able to understand the dialogue is such a low bar though, nobody's expecting cinema quality from tv speakers
It's a theatre movie, guys. It was never meant to be cut down and watched on a tiny screen with no speakers.
It has a lot of issues in theaters too
Yes, yes it was. If you are going to dual release a movie, WB needs to master it both ways.
Yes, yes it was
Tell that to Villeneuve.
I agree. Especially early on in the movie.
I saw it in a theater and had no problem understanding all but one line of dialogue.
If I'm planning to watch this via HBO Max on my computer, using simple 2.0 speakers (Realtek driver), what can I do to avoid this issue? Are there specific audio settings or any applications that can help?
You're probably not the only one who thinks that way, but I personally didn't have any issues with the dialogue/music. I thought the music, specifically, was very alluring. It captivated me.
It sounded fine on my sound bar but I also had subtitles on so maybe I didn’t notice.
I had no trouble hearing, but I saw it in IMAX.
I saw it in IMAX and i didn't have any issues with the dialogue audio but my overall impression was that it was too loud. My friends told me I said that because I am too old!
I was fiddling with the sound a lot on a brand new AVR because the dialogue was lower than the rest of the soundtrack. My center channel is 7.5db higher than the rest per the Audyssey set up I did with the microphone and all.
I thought it was just me. I saw it in the theater and I had a very hard time following the dialogue.
You’re def right.
I watched with subtitles on. There were multiple times that I did not hear anyone speak and there were subtitles lol.
No. This was with no people on screen. Just space ships landing.
Watching again on HBO Max with captions on for this very reason.
awww. I'm going to see it tomorrow and I've had trouble with sound mixing like that in the past. I actually toss on closed captioning when I'm watching TV at home. Started because Peaky Blinders was nigh on unintelligible but now I like it.
I missed some words too
I thought the sound design and music was amazing
During one of Pauls visions his words were hard to make out. If I wasn't familiar with the books I probably wouldn't have been able to piece it together.
It's weird. I have a pretty high end TV (OLED) but on HBOMax the sound through the app is almost always shit. I bought a decent sound bar and that somehow made things worse.
But once I popped on my gaming headphones for Dune, the sound became epic and crystal clear. It's a shame that the mixing is off for so many people because, once you get the sound right, that movie really does become an experience to behold.
I saw the film in a small cinema the other night and didn’t have too much of a problem hearing the dialogue. I loved the film. Awesome spaceships. Good characters. Huge improvement on the 1984 version. Can’t wait for part two.
Definitely thought it was theater I was in.
No, you're not the only sound editor who does this.
Did you listen to a 5 speaker surround sound version through 2 speakers?
For real, saw this movie in the theater and the audio range was insane. Quiet conversations chased with ear-shattering BWAAAAs in every dramatic sweeping shot. The wife literally spend half the movie with fingers in her ears.
THIS is the shit that's going to kill theaters, when people go from being able to personalize audio levels at home to uncomfortable, even painful modern sound mixing.
Feels like something that could be done in software. Separate stuff that looks like speech and enhance it. Analysis could be done ahead of actual playback and cached
Subtitles ftw again
Yes, I had it on Max and a spaceship flies by and my windows are almost breaking. Then anyone speaks and i have to rewind and turn on CC. Of course, I have this problem with 90% of movies made in the last 10 years and one of the few things that really peeves me. Always end up caving and just leaving CC on, which really breaks immersion
It’s great in a Dolby theater.
I just saw it and I can confirm that some of the time I couldn't hear Jack shit what they were saying
Closed captioning on HBO.
Thanks for the heads up; I was wondering why my local was offering with subtitles. Guess I’ll have to skip the 3D
Yeah, it's so dumb, I have to watch it again on HBOMax with subtitles to just get the full dialogue.
Yeah, the mix is a bit of a cluster if you ask me. Waaaay too much Hans
No you’re not. I had to turn on sub-titles at one point.
Yeah, no shit. This is a whole thing in the last decade or so with movies. Some fucktard in post production seems to want to show how great they are at sound editing. Bunch of fucking amateurs really. There are a bunch of youtube videos discussing this very thing across the movie industry.
I saw an interview with a few directors who said basically "we've decided to mix our sound for the highest-end theaters with excellent, new sound systems, and if you try to watch it in a theater more than five years old or at home, sucks to be you."
* For example: https://www.indiewire.com/2020/09/tenet-sound-mixing-backlash-christopher-nolan-explained-1234583800/