the roots of the rpg hobby

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Weekly OSR Vlog/Blogroll Round UP!

(Big credit to r/xaosseed, r/sofinho, and r/shuttered_room for all their fantastic work doing these posts manually before we automated it.)

The r/osr weekly blogroll.

Hey there! There's been an update regarding where we can post your blogs. Starting from 5/14/2023, you are no longer required to post your blogs solely on this roundup. We hope this update is helpful for you and your blogging journey. Feel free to let the mod team know if you have any questions or need any more help!

Share your sparks of inspiration below!

Pinnedby AutoModerator
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3mo
OSR LFG: Official Regular Looking especially for OSR Group (LeFOG)

Hi all,

It has been stated that it's hard to find groups that play OSR specific games. In order to avoid a rash of LFG posts, please post your "DM wanting players" and "Players wanting DM" here. Be as specific or as general as you like.

Do try searching and posting on r/lfg, as that is its sole and intended purpose. However, if you want to crosspost here, please do so. As this is weekly, you might want to go back a few weeks worth of posts, as they may still be actively recruiting.

This should repost automatically weekly. If not, please message the mods.

Pinnedby feyrathModeratorgrogmod
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Questions about Classic ThievesTSR

I'm a former 5e DM who has decided to run an older version of DND (B/X), once I have the physical book and a campaign ready. Most of the classes seem simple and straightforward l, but the one class I feel pretty unsure about is the Thief.

For one, the numbers for their skills just seem kind of weird. They're expert climbers from level 1 but can barely open a lock or anything. I'm hardly itching to tamper with a system I'm new to, so I'll let yall inform me if the Thief as written is fine. I'd also just appreciate general tips on how they're supposed to work.

One thing that seems a bit weird to me is the specific, written out skills of the Thief, compared to other classes. A big part of the pitch to me for the OSR was the open-ended, roleplay-centric style of resolution, but the Thief seems like it could contradict that (from what I've gathered, that is an old debate). I like the idea of players getting through a dungeon by interacting with traps and describing what they're doing, but the old school Thief doesn't seem to demand that anymore or less than the 5e Rogue. "I search for traps" smacks of "I Perception the room to me."

Again, please let me know if my conception of this is inaccurate. I'm happy to be wrong here.

If the old school Thief as written doesn't facilitate that narrative, immersion style of play, is there an alternate design of the Thief (or a similar class like Assassin) that does? Because it does seem like an essential archetype that wouldn't be covered satisfactorily by just a Fighter, Cleric, or Magic-User (unless getting high DEX in one of those could help you basically do that).

I appreciate any insight on the topic. I don't really want running Thieves to feel the same as it does when 5e players use 5e classes and skills. I really would like that narrative, roleplay-centric dialogue of task resolution that the OSR community sold me, but I don't know if old school Thieves deliver that.

Thanks.

Curious to know about your roll for ability score method of choice

I’m about to start a campaign set into the Halls of Arden vul. Thanks to 3d6dtl for getting me hooked!

All other OSE campaigns I ran were using the ol’, well, 3d6 down the line methodology for generating the ability scores. Now, I finally bought the adnd dmg which presents alternative methods for it and I’m wondering if I should stick to the way I used to do it or switch to one one of the one proposed by dnd.

I’m looking for feedback about the one that you are using and why is it better than any other else.

I understand that the one proposed by adnd will generate better stats, which should improve chances of survival for pc. So I guess my question is more, based on your experience , do you think better overall stats means more fun for the pc or in the end it doesn’t matter?

Are BX/OSE and BECMI backwards compatible?variant rules

I’m planning on running a BECMI campaign, but I’m wondering if certain things from OSE could be implemented into a BECMI campaign, I’m assuming yes but I’m just checking.

Great simple Dungeon Geomorph Kickstarterfilthy lucre

I’m a backer for 3 euro but not affiliated :)

Worth checking this out. I plan to print them on card stock and use for creating dungeons on the fly

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/draw-my-dungeon/draw-my-dungeon/description

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6h
Are Ioun Stones in the public domain/Creative Commons?

I am working on an entry for the One Page Dungeon Contest and wanted to include ioun stones, but can't find an answer to this question. Anyone know if I can get away with using them? I know its likely not a big deal but want to see what I can find out.

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Into the Pit (Anthony Huso’s newest project)

Anthony Huso has a new series of three books detailing three separate layers of the Nine Hells: HU8a Into the Pit 1 Avernus, HU8c Into the Pit 3 Minauros and HU8e Into the Pit 5 Stygia. As you can likely surmise, each book details the layer in the title (these are the first three to be released, and they’re not being done in order, so that’s why you have volumes 1, 3 and 5–the others are said to be forthcoming given sufficient interest).

This project started out as a companion piece to his Castle of the Silver Prince module, but can stand on its own if you wish. I purchased all three and found them to be excellent. If you loved those old Ed Greenwood articles on the hells in Dragon 75, 76 and 91 (like me), these are for you.

The challenge behind writing any sort of guide to another plane of existence is the fact that most are infinite in size, and they are populated by fantastic beings (solars, planetars, modrons, slaad, devils, demons, etc.) who are possessed of incredible cunning and a decidedly non-human perspective. This, on top of their myriad special powers, makes them an extreme challenge to referee. Treating a devil as just a super-powered monster to throw at your players on dungeon level ten is a wasted opportunity; if you’re going to use devils, they need to be presented in a meaningful way in which the machinations of the hells are on full display.

Ed Greenwood’s articles were a tantalizing snapshot into what could be a fantastic campaign in which devils could truly come into their own, but it lacked the concrete details and specifics you’d need to actually set off into the hells. But how much do you need? The hells are just too big; they’re not levels of a megadungeon which can be mapped out. You need a fleshed out framework to be able to truly set the players loose in Avernus and not simply lead them by the nose with a carefully-scripted plot, one that can cover many possibilities. You also need a few specific sites and background plots ready at hand if needed, as well as a stable of NPCs with distinct goals and personalities to be able to meaningfully explore other planes.

I really like planar adventures, and the older I get the less interested I become in adventure paths and the like; I don’t want to lead players by the nose, I want to create a setting full of possibilities and see how the players make use of it (or perhaps how badly they can screw up). I want to be surprised by what they do, which plot lines they latch on to and which NPCs they ally with or make enemies of. I have also come to realize, in my age and wisdom, that this is a very demanding set of expectations. Many game masters don’t even want to run characters of the levels high enough to make such adventures possible, let alone tackle all the challenges involved with the planes. You need an exceptional set of materials to pull it off.

These books are those materials. If you read those articles by Ed Greenwood in Dragon 75 and 76 and wished you could ride on the hells with that paladin, well, now you can. Each book makes the layer of hell detailed within a fully useable as a adventure site should the players have a reason to go there. There’s enough NPCs, plot points, lost treasures and such to keep you busy for a long time, and even a few fleshed-out dungeons, castles and other adventure sites if you need something concrete. After a few sessions, a group of players determined to survive (or even thrive) in the hells will likely be creating their own plots and themes for you to support. The whole system of Respite (which is the basis for the economic system of the hells) provides not only ready-made motivations for most of the NPCs but also can be fodder for all sorts of adventures. The random encounter charts are full of these possibilities; a single roll on this table could generate an evening’s entertainment in the hands of a capable DM.

In conclusion, I found these to be excellent. I love the art, too. Worth every penny!

More details (and a link to where they can be purchased) here:

https://www.thebluebard.com/blog/down-come-the-claws

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What is your favorite one page dungeon?discussion

I believe out of all the ones I've read, this has to be my favorite so far:https://www.reddit.com/r/osr/comments/193fflz/free_onepage_dungeon_they_dug_too_deep/

Haven't run it, but I'm going to be reflavoring it for a weird western campaign coming up. I really like how simplistic these dungeons are! After coming from 5e where dungeons aren't really a thing anymore, this will be a nice change of pace.

Help identify rune translation B/X page x52?

On page X52 of the Expert set there is an illustration by Bill Willingham of a castle bordered with runes. I've spent way too much time trying to figure it out, and am curious if anyone has fallen down this rabbit hole.

The best I have worked out:
This is the <something> of <something> the <something> <something> of ?man? a of war who ?are? the ?northorn?

Riveting. I would let it go if there weren't bits that made sense.

here is an imgur link of the image

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Swords & Wizardry Revised Character Sheet in Portuguese

A couple of years ago the user u/Tuirgin posted a S&W character's sheet made in Google Sheets (original post). First I would like to thanks Tuirgin for sharing it!

I translated the sheet to Portuguese (brazilian) and updated somethings to the system's Revised edition.

Hope this will be useful for my fellow brazilians' referees and players!

Link to translated character's sheet

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Knave 2e Tablesdiscussion

What do you think of the Knave 2e tables?

I am still waiting for my hard copy. I haven’t really looked at the PDF preferring to get my first impression from the physical books. That being said, I am curious what folks opinions are concerning the included tables.

I backed the 2nd printing of Tomb of Adventure Design. It is an absolutely gorgeous book. The contents are top notch. My mind boggles at the amount of work and creativity that went into creating the book. I am a big fan of Matt Finch in general and really glad I purchased this book.

I don’t think ToAD was ever intended for use at the table. Personally, I have trouble using it even when I am working in design mode. I think for me, there is just so much content it kind of puts my brain into analysis-paralysis mode. I get so many ideas, it becomes difficult to work them all out, and I end up setting things aside to finish later, only to end up abandoning them.

For those who have spent some time using the Knave 2e tables, how do you like them? Do they work at the table? Can you use them while creating content ahead of time? Anything you particularly like or don’t care for?

Low Prep Urban Adventure

As title - basically I'm wondering if anyone knows of a low prep city-based module? Preferably one I can run in a single evening. Players have got themselves unexpectedly stranded in a city for a few days. Tempted to stop being lazy and just grab an easy Lankhmar DCC module but I don't have that much time this week to prep and reading some of the DCC modules can be heavy going, especially if I get to the end and decide it's not what I want. Any advice appreciated.

Of Orcs and AI

https://www.northumbriangames.com/post/of-orcs-and-ai

Made vs. Created and the Nature of Orcs

J.R.R. Tolkien's stories are deeply rooted in Thomistic metaphysics and Christian theology, where the distinction between "made" and "created" is pivotal. This distinction underscores the nature of goodness, creation, corruption, and the intrinsic limitations of evil. The dichotomy between making and creating is most vividly illustrated through the origins and nature of orcs, the monstrous foot soldiers of Middle-earth's dark lords.

Creation: The Divine Act

In Tolkien's world, true creation, or creatio ex nihilo (creation from nothing), is the exclusive province of Eru Ilúvatar, the supreme deity. This act of creation involves bringing something into existence that possesses the Flame Imperishable (or the Secret Fire), which grants true life, free will, and inherent goodness. Beings created by Eru Ilúvatar, such as the Ainur (angelic beings), elves, and men, are imbued with this divine spark, making them fundamentally good and capable of independent existence and moral choice.

From The Silmarillion:

"Therefore Ilúvatar may not only send forth the Flame Imperishable into the Void, but he may also bestow it to others, who may then sub-create, though only as permitted by Ilúvatar"​​.

Making: The Act of Sub-creation

In contrast, the Valar and other beings can engage in making or sub-creation, which involves shaping or manipulating pre-existing matter. They cannot infuse these creations with the Flame Imperishable. A notable example is Aulë, one of the Valar, who crafted the Dwarves. Initially, these beings were mere automatons, moving only according to Aulë's thoughts. It was only when Eru Ilúvatar chose to bestow them with the Flame Imperishable that the Dwarves gained true life and independence. This story illustrates the fundamental difference between divine creation and sub-creation: the former grants true life and free will, while the latter lacks these essential qualities until blessed by Eru. Tolkien clarifies this distinction in his letters:

"They [the Valar] shared in [the World’s] 'making'—but only on the same terms as we 'make' a work of art or story. The realization of it, the gift to it of a created reality of the same grade as their own, was the act of the One God"​​.

Orcs: The Corruption of Creation

The origin of orcs in Tolkien’s mythos serves as a poignant example of the difference between making and creating. According to various writings, orcs were not created by Morgoth or Sauron but were made by corrupting pre-existing beings. In "The Silmarillion," it is suggested that orcs were originally elves who were captured, tortured, and perverted by Morgoth's malevolent influence. This corruption transformed them into beings of evil, stripped of their original grace and beauty. In Morgoth's Ring we find:

"It became clear in time that undoubted Men could under the domination of Morgoth or his agents in a few generations be reduced almost to the Orc-level of mind and habits; and then they would or could be made to mate with Orcs, producing new breeds, often larger and more cunning. There is no doubt that long afterwards, in the Third Age, Saruman rediscovered this, or learned of it in lore, and in his lust for mastery committed this, his wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men, producing both Men-orcs large and cunning, and Orc-men treacherous and vile."​​.

Tolkien emphasizes that orcs, though rational and capable of independent thought, lack the divine spark of the Flame Imperishable. This absence signifies that while Morgoth could mar and twist the creations of Eru, he could not create life himself. In Flame Imperishable, Tolkien is quoted as saying:

"Treebeard does not say that the Dark Lord 'created' Trolls and Orcs. He says he 'made' them in counterfeit of certain creatures pre-existing. There is, to me, a wide gulf between the two statements"​​.

Essence

Elves: Created with inherent goodness and free will. Their essence is tied to beauty, longevity, and a deep connection to nature and creation.

Men: Created with inherent goodness and free will. Their essence includes mortality, adaptability, and a dynamic nature.

Orcs: Originally, corrupted elves or men, or made from slime and heat, the essence has been radically distorted and corrupted by evil. Their essence now reflects malevolence, subservience, and a perversion of their original nature.

Existence

Elves: Given existence by Eru Ilúvatar, independent and autonomous. Their being is fully realized with a true purpose aligned with their essence.

Men: Given existence by Eru Ilúvatar, independent and autonomous. Their being is dynamic, capable of growth, and change, and is fully realized.

Orcs: Their existence is subjugated to the will of their corrupt masters (Morgoth or Sauron). While they have real, physical existence, it is dependent on the malevolent forces that control them.|

Autonomy

Elves: High degree of moral autonomy, capable of making independent choices and pursuing their own paths.

Men: High degree of moral autonomy, capable of making independent choices and pursuing their own paths.

Orcs: Almost entirely controlled by their evil masters, reflecting their corrupted essence and dependent existence.

Connection to Eru

Elves: Directly created by Eru with the Flame Imperishable, giving them true life and free will.

Men: Directly created by Eru with the Flame Imperishable, giving them true life and free will.

Orcs: Not created by Eru but rather made by corrupting pre-existing beings or materials. They lack the Flame Imperishable, highlighting their dependent and perverted nature.

Philosophical Implication

Elves: Represent the ideal of Tolkien's metaphysical and theological views, embodying true creation and the perfect blend of essence and existence.

Men: Embody the dynamic and adaptable nature of true creation with a perfect blend of essence and existence, according to Aquinas's philosophy.

Orcs: Serve as an example of how essence and existence can be corrupted and diminished by evil. Their existence is real but heavily dependent and perverted, lacking true autonomy and the Flame Imperishable.

Philosophical and Theological Implications

The distinction between made and created has profound implications in Tolkien’s universe. It aligns with Christian theology, reflecting the belief in a singular, omnipotent Creator who alone can grant true life. This distinction underscores the inherent limitations of evil: it is parasitic, relying on the corruption of what is good rather than generating new existence.

Orcs epitomize this concept. They are beings made through corruption, reflecting the perversion of creation. Their existence as fundamentally corrupted creatures illustrates the limits of Morgoth’s and Sauron’s power. They can induce suffering and manipulate life, but they cannot originate a true life that burns with the Flame Imperishable. This underscores a central theme in Tolkien’s works: the resilience of good and the ultimate impotence of evil to truly create.

On Artificial Intelligence

This leads us to Artificial Intelligence. Modern large language models (LLMs) and artificial intelligence systems, despite their sophisticated capabilities, are constructs without true volition or understanding. Basically, an LLM is an advanced version of autocomplete. These systems operate on vast datasets and algorithms designed to predict and generate human-like text (or audio or images), but they lack genuine consciousness, intent, and moral agency. Unlike beings created with the divine spark in Tolkien's world, LLMs do not possess free will or intrinsic purpose; they are tools made by humans to process and mimic patterns. Some commentators have even referred to AI as an alien intelligence, a ~shoggoth with a human face~, meaning that while the text may look humanlike, in reality, it originated not from a human but from an unknowable, formless alien process, which is the LLM.

"Well, we're fooled by their fluency, right? We just assume that if a system is fluent in manipulating language, then it has all the characteristics of human intelligence. But that impression is false." --Yann Lecun​​ on the Lex Fridman podcast #416

The outputs of an LLM are determined not by experience, education, and emotion but by the data and programming they receive, reflecting the biases and limitations inherent in their design. This underscores the crucial distinction between artificial constructs and beings endowed with the Flame Imperishable, with true life and volition. Parents, for instance, should think carefully about giving a child unbridled access to an LLM which has no discernible ethics. The AI is a soulless, thoughtless machine built by human researchers, much like an orc is designed by Sauron simply to act as an instrument of his evil desires. The ethical and philosophical results of deploying such constructs into our society is staggering indeed.

The AI is only the Tool of the Maker

Of course, while the analogy between LLMs and Orcs highlights the artificial nature and purpose-driven creation of both, there are clear and fundamental differences in moral intent and potential for ethical use. LLMs are not (as far as we know) inherently evil constructs. They seem to be neutral tools that reflect the intentions of their creators and users. As such, the focus should be on ensuring that AI development and deployment are guided by ethical principles to maximize their benefits and minimize potential harm. That said, as with social media, we may come to regret the technology and wish to fling it back into Mordor's fire.

Conclusion

Tolkien's distinction between made and created is a metaphysical aspect of Middle Earth. It emphasizes the unique power of Eru Ilúvatar's true creation and the corruptive nature of evil. The orcs symbolize this dichotomy, illustrating how evil can distort but not create. This concept resonates in modern large language models and AI systems, which lack genuine consciousness and moral agency despite their advanced capabilities. Orcs and contemporary LLMs demonstrate the ethical implications of using such technologies and serve to enrich the philosophical depth of Tolkien's work.

Pointcrawl dungeonsI made a thing

So I posted an isometric pointcrawl map up a few days ago, people seemed to dig it! They also had a few questions…

I’ve put out an article (part 1) addressing why I personally like these abstract maps over traditional concrete illustrations.

Check it out here.

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Knave 2e disappointment? Other opinions?

Just got Knave 2e physical book in the mail. The hardcover quality is good and the artwork by Peter Mullen is awesome!

I'm quite disappointed with the rules and content though . . . it seems so, I don't know, half-finished? Not play tested? It's hard to say but it seems like the content was just kind of mashed together without much thought.

A lot of the random tables seem like they were glued in to pad the page count without any real context or explanation of how/when to use them. I know it's subjective but the entries aren't particularly inspiring to me either. I understand that it's a matter of taste but it seems like ChatGPT could give me a similar list of 100 different types of fabric, etc . . . nothing is particularly novel or creative.

Some of the rules seem pretty half-baked, too. The number of encounter rolls per day using the hazard dice and the ration depletion seems off. The relic magic was very disappointing: basically just telling me as the GM to make something up by myself.

I loved the first version of Knave: so much value and play was crammed in 7 pages! I played the hell out of it! Just wondering what others' thoughts on Knave 2e are. I wanted to love this game . . . it was going to be my go to system but now I'm regretting the money I spent. Maybe I'm missing something?

Curious what others are thinking of Knave 2e . . .

EDIT:

I want to thank everyone for sharing their opinions! I think I came into the Kickstarter with the wrong expectations. The book and art are beautiful and I'm glad that many folks are having a great time with it at their table. I'll admit to not having played it yet and will give it a test drive in a dungeon. Good gaming all!

Pagan Pacts - Free, Illustrated NSR System for Grounded Viking Fantasy

Not quite sure if this is the right place, but I hope there will be something in this you folks enjoy.

Pagan Pacts is a rules-lite, classless and low fantasy RPG system. It's inspired by ADnD in that it's D20 roll under, but it also brings some new concepts into the mix.

One which I think people here will appreciate - or hate - most is permanent wounds, which is outlined in This Post.

Themes wise it explores animism and humanities place in nature.

I've made it available under the CC BY-NC-SA license, so it's free for anyone to tinker with. It's on DTRPG as PWYW and also available as a free download on the website.

All feedback is highly appreciated and I'm happy to answer any questions about my journey from being a crappy GM to being a slightly less crappy one through the play testing we did almost every thursday for more than a year.

Hope you enjoy the read!

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Questions about Dragonslayer RPG

Hi everyone, just a few quick questions:

“A cleric may only turn undead equal to or lower than their level”

I am confused. I assume that the level the book is referring to = the number of HD for monsters.

Also, it appears that the XP required to level up from 10 to 11 is lower than the XP needed from level 9 to 10 for some classes. Is this right?

For 11 to 12 I think you multiply the fixed XP given times 2 (12-10)*250,100 for an assassin.

Tips for Ancient, Conan, non-high fantasy settings/systems?WORLD BUILDING

I will be dming my first 1 shot and I’ve been doing ton of research on systems, rulesets, and modules.

I love the OSR philosophy, but I want to change my settings to be much more low fantasy, I am thinking Ancient Greece, Eqypt, Babylon etc, and Conan the barbarian.

Are there any of the shelf settings, modules or rulesets like this? (I do enjoy dark sun.)

Should I just use my ruleset of choice and turn orcs into hop lites, knights into centurions and remove non-human races or is there another good option?

I gather the OSR thing to do is write my own lore and hack it, and I am down with that, just curious if I am overlooking a good resource.

(I am probably going to run Shadowdark, it seems very hack able to a mild setting swap, also looking at Knave and Cairn all of which I have rules for.)

Looking for a large random table resource I used to have

I used to have a pdf that was at least 100+ pages long and was full of pretty cool OSR-style encounter, outdoor, etc random tables. They were done in the style of 1eDnD or old school Judges Guild.

And I remember it being free as well. I guess it was a labor of love for someone?

I know this sounds completely...random. But does anyone know the pdf I am speaking of? 🎲