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Possible unpopular opinion: too many people who aren’t great singers are cast in professional musical productions.
That’s a problem I have with a few performers.
They care about singing in a cool way and showing off their voice as opposed to conveying the song’s emotions or story, and it really takes me out of it.
I’ve developed a dislike for vibrato for that reason.
American Idol Syndrome!
I love that they totally make fun of that in Spamalot.
The thing is, those personal choices so often seem anything *but* cool to me, and often hit me as a lack of control and ability--the ability to convey as the composer has written the music.
I do hate a forced vibrato.
I know that I get hooked by the performances on an OBC recording, but at times I just get tired by so-and-so performer not simply singing the music as the composer intended, as written, and instead adding the performer's own "flourishes"--which rarely sound to me as good (as vs. more sounding to me, so often, like personal hubris). I think that opera singers can get it more--knowing that controlled singing is such a skill and demonstration of that.
People who burst into song at the drop of a hat are always going to be somewhat artificial—but a singer who fails to communicate the emotion a song is meant to convey doesn’t belong in a musical. I mean, really, a good singer does that even when they’re singing in a nightclub or something.
It’s not just emotion, it’s also about the tactics that the character uses to get what they want and how they react to obstacles and discoveries and other acting 101 concepts
I agree, but I don’t think it’s entirely down to the individual performers. There seems to be a trend in modern musicals to has extremely vocally demanding music (nothing wrong with that in itself, but I wonder if it’s written at the expense of other things…). There’s also directors and music directors who might want their performers to sing like that, rather than it being a performer’s initial decision. And possibly marketing teams who want crazy vocals for social media. I’ve noticed a lot of young non-musicians in online discussion forums classify the skill of a singer exclusively on objective factors, like highest belt/vocal range/longest note/fastest riff, rather than musicality/emotion/storytelling/tone/etc.
This is way more of an annoyance than OP’s thing
I’d rather watch an actor who can kind of sing than a singer who can kind of act. It’s obviously preferable to watch someone who can do both, but the ability to act through song is what makes it musical theatre.
Agreed. For sure. I’m just of the belief that there’s enough people who can do both.
Ugh. Watching a singer songwriter trying to act in her own show was painful
Y'all lurk in posts about opinions and vents, waiting to pounce on opinions you don't like, and then attack when people point out they're being attacked for an opinion they were asked to give. That's called trolling. It's also a form of DARVO. They warned me that reddit is overrun with narcissistic trolls. They were not wrong.
Let me guess, Sara Bereilles?
Sara's been nominated for a Tony in a show she didn't write. I think she's proven she can act, too.
So? And? The Tonys are as corrupt an organization as the Oscars and Emmys.
That don't impress me much.
The juvenille inability of people to handle different opinions of what is or is not good acting or good entertainment is yet another in a long list of reasons this app consistently wins for most toxic social app.
It’s responses like yours that are toxic. I explained myself with an opinion and an objective fact. You got all bent out of shape about it as if I’m attacking you personally.
Pot meet kettle.
Okay.
It’s wild to me when someone is getting pretty soundly downvoted and is then like, “no, you’re all wrong!” Look in the mirror.
Okay.
Right. How DARE anybody have an opinion that differs from what the Tonys say. TIRESOME.
I’ve never seen her so I can’t say, she’s just the first person I thought of
Ok. I don't want to hear off key singing, certainly - but I'd much rather have a great actor that's only a decent singer rather than a great singer that's only a mediocre actor. Any day of the week. And no, you can't always have both.
Ethel Merman was a power house - not a singer. Rex Harrison couldn't sing a note. Harvey Fierstein sounds like he's gargling gravel.
You can act your way through a song, not the other way around
eh depends on the musical. In operatic musicals i'd rather have a good singer because they're singing almost all the time.
It's the voice of Stephen Sondheim come alive--his expressed philosophy. Listen to so many of the voices in the OBC of Company; and then there's also Len Cariou (and I mean all of this as a compliment).
Wait is it a popular opinion that Len Cariou can’t sing? I’ve always thought he sounded marvelous in both Sweeney and A Little Night Music.
I think of his singing voice as a "typical" male Sondheim show voice, an Everyman: ability and character, but not necessarily (Josh Groban musically), for lack of a better description. Again, he could sub in for one of the roles in Company.
I recently saw a video interview of Cariou's discussing his auditioning/going through the casting process for one of his Sondheim shows (it must have been A Little Night Music?). IIRC, Cariou told Sondheim his vocal range and mentioned that he could stretch it some for the role with further training, to which Sondheim responded that this wouldn't be necessary--the gist being, Sondheim was looking for the role and character first.
That all being said: he (Cariou) remains my point of reference for his roles, and singing (as to which I didn't mean any disrespect--I apologize for any impression otherwise), in both A Little Night Music and Sweeney: he just clicks for me as being the natural voice (in all senses) for those roles.
A fun interview of Cariou, to listen to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPcEMKnvYEM. Around 4 minutes in, he discusses A Little Night Music and his appearing at the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis in Oedipus, which he couldn't get out of, when ALNM was going to go into rehearsals--Cariou managed to do his role at the Guthrie while commuting to NYC for ALNM rehearsals, not missing either, despite the Minnesota Winter.
Seriously. OP can be salty about Brenda in fifth grade who got a part because she’s the principal’s daughter, but holding the opinion that actors have to be flawless opera performers just shows disdain for the actual art form. If you would prefer theater to be a concert, see a concert. If you want a show, you need actors, and actors act. The worst shows I’ve ever seen are shows where a really great singer is cast as the lead, and they’re just not believable because of their dogshit acting. At least a bad singer can still draw me in emotionally, make me care for the character. A bad actor makes me remember I’m watching a person reciting music they memorized, I can’t see the character.
This is exactly why some folks are unsold on Ariana Grande as Glinda in Wicked. We know she can sing - there's zero doubt there. But if we just wanted beautifully sung songs, we'd go to a concert. Can she act? Cuz that's needed, too.
Of course, she can act. First as a child actor. She always gets rave reviews from snl skits, especially the ones that don't involve singing. She was phenomenal in scream queens and don't look up. She is possibly the most talented person on earth. If she wanted to give up her music career and become a full-time actress, she would easily be A list.
I’m not saying I don’t think she can act - but this was a very prevalent line of thinking when her casting was announced. This was still clearly a case of celebrity and singing being prioritized over acting.
You may be a biiiit over the top here, though 😂
I literally only asked that things be on key.
Agreed!
I don’t love Tammy Blanchard’s voice but I really came to like her on the Little Shop cast album because she made some nice choices. I never got to see the show, but I hope she gave it her all on stage.
There is a GLUT of extremely talented actors who can SING. There was no reason to put someone who cannot sing for shit in that role. I find it infuriating.
I was so thankful I missed her and saw an adorable standby, Chelsea Turbin. I really didn’t care for her interpretation on the cast recording.
I agree with you. But Ethel Merman was on key and Rex Harrison didn’t sing things he couldn’t.
Edit: I don’t care about the tone as much as the key. Like Willie Nelson/Bob Dylan. They’re at least always on key.
Edit: And obviously it depends on the musical and how much straight acting there is. Some people can emote beautifully while singing even if they’re not the greatest actor.
But I don't want them to be a weak actor EVER, not just while singing. Because even in a sung thru musical they have to ACT.
I never once said I would prefer a bad actor who can sing. I specifically said there’s enough people who can do both to go around. Y’all really just like to add your own internal dialogue and argue against it.
99% of the time a bad singer is cast in a union production is because it’s a stunt cast purely because the person is famous and will draw more ticket sales
See: Colleen Ballinger
Her vocals for Waitress were below mediocre
I forgot she did waitress 💀 don’t know why she was ever cast, it’s not like she was that famous where she would attract so many fans
And after it came out that shes a terrible person, they have a bad show AND a bad rep
Exactly
James Cordon is awful on all fronts. He might be fun in a car ride, doing karaoke, but they have got to stop casting him. He is like that one kid in HS who loves musical theater and gets cast purely because everyone gets cast and he has great enthusiasm.
I had no idea James Cordon was being cast in things.
yeah movie versions of the prom, cats, into the woods probably more
In the case of movies, I'm not sure why dubbing has fallen so out of favor when they want to continue casting bankable names. Fine, cast Russell Crowe, but hire someone to sing for him if he's not able to get to where he needs to be.
Except that, in that particular film, that was the conceit for the film: live singing by the performers.
Which in and of itself I don't mind, but some of the stuff they had to go through for their "look", like not drinking water, is the OPPOSITE of what you need to do to sing. Also if you want to have a live singing movie, fine, but for the official CD, I don't want to hear the snot
I guess the idea of the water angle was, trying to seem realistic? Reminding me of the story of Dustin Hoffman and Sir Lawrence Olivier in the movie Marathon Man, where the latter saw the extremes that the former took in his method acting approach to effectuate his role, where the latter didn't feel the need, noting that the field is called "acting" for a good reason. :)
I heard it was too accentuate the muscles, dehydration for a few days makes them really pop. Which is great for showing a shirtless prisoner dragging a pole around, not so great for the singing capabilities of said prisoner
Interesting; thanks. (And, of course, not particularly successful, in the end.)
Is that actually an unpopular opinion? Maybe things have changed, but it seemed for a long time the problem was situations like the one portrayed in the “Smash” TV series, where they stunt-cast a movie star who thinks she can sing but can’t really. Or like when Funny Girl was revived with an actress who had a talent for comedy but nowhere near the vocal power needed for that show. I mean, aren’t there enough regular (not musical) plays for people who are just good actors? I don’t think asking for an actor to be able to do both well is too much to ask for a musical.
It shouldn't be too much to ask for! So many people spend years training as singers, actors and dancers and getting shoved into the ensemble. There should be someone good enough at both singing and emoting to portray most roles, especially in professional shows. Like a couple others have said, it seems to have to do with wanting a big name and not an unknown who actually has the training to back up their performance.
Also, don't appreciate the put down of college and community productions to prove your point, op. Yes they are often lower quality, but many have very talented people that are well versed in all aspects of performing. I have seen shows at that level that would seem interchangeable with a professional cast talent wise, though obviously not the set, due to a ridiculous difference in the budget and what can be afforded. Often these people do have the talent to pursue musical theatre but life or circumstances have led them elsewhere
I was literally saying that if I don’t have the money to go to a professional, high budget production, I have other options where my expectations will not be so high. I was not singling any production out. Some of y’all are just looking to be offended because you like the rush. But I expected that.
That's not the case at all. You literally called it mediocrity and dissonance. How is that not an insult? That isn't merely saying "my expectations aren't as high". And I see nothing about money. You are very combative to people in these comments that aren't agreeing with you
Because you’re bringing up points that have nothing to do with what I said. You have personal feelings, that this brought up in you, but aren’t contextual outside your own thoughts.
I love college and community theatre. But I expect a Hollywood movie or a Broadway production to be better and there’s nothing insulting about that.
I shouldn’t have to explain myself or cover my bases for how sensitive people are going to misinterpret something very specific.
To be told I’m “off-putting” for something that is completely inside someone’s head is pretty off-putting. Sure they said, (if that’s what you meant), but why bring something to the table I DIDN’T say (that would theoretically hurt your feelings), and then ask me if that’s what I meant? That’s searching to be offended and starting shit. I’m happy to participate in mudslinging at that point.
As I mentioned the other day here, I think that American (and other?) audiences need to be re-trained: you can have a marvelous time at the theatre (as was proved) with the cast composed of the oh-so-talented-and-appreciated understudies in Sweeney Todd, without needing "name" performers X and Y in the production.
(Likewise, you can survive a theatre performance without needing to munch your way through food during it; and your kids can learn how to act in the theatre and to sit there and absorb for an hour at a stretch.)
I think people like to see celebrities so they give them a pass
Sorry, but NPH was amazing in Hedwig. He won a Tony for it. And rave reviews..
Right?? No clue where op is coming from
Honestly, I love all the Hedwigs. He can be awesome and still be the weakest. It was an example of something I noticed, that he couldn’t hit all the notes. Obviously he was a big draw.
I don't give a shit if this is an unpopular opinion - the word "musical" is in the fucking Name of the art form.
If you're not a professional singer, or if you can't compensate spectacularly by your acting/persona like Ethel Merman, Rex Harrison, or Yul Byrnner, then GTFO.
And for the record I blame the director for totally botching Russell Crowe's Javert in Les Mis. Look at Russell Crowe from LA Confidential and then Master and Commander.
He WAS physically perfect as Javert in the Broadway musical - mutton chops and black hat and coat and all. Not this wimpy, watered-down pathetic ghost of a character in blue and a goatee.
If the man can't fuckin sing, get him vocal lessons, autotune or DUB HIM. And don't change the iconic costume or facial hair of the character.
Russell Crowe's Javert did NOT need to suck. Neither did the movie. Just make a damn straightforward classic Hollywood musical, with no weird camera angles and dubbing the actors who can't sing or be autotuned to competency.
(AND Javert did NOT need to crunch when he hit the cement slab after jumping off the bridge. That was beyond fucked up.)
Just in defense of Ethel (that could make a great movie title, lol): she *was* an accomplished singer and indeed *could* sing--now, whether one likes her clarion-bell-like singing voice is another matter. And indeed, for the age of pre-miked theatres, she had a certain advantage.
Agree
It's a small thing but I HATED that they had him finish the line and then jump. I know why they did it - all that hype about recording them live, but having that final word and note trail off AS he jumps is just the epitome of a theatrical moment. Goosebumps, etc. And they ruined it.
Edit - While I'm at it, I hated how they did the Thenardiers. They're evil but with that layer of joviality that fools people, some people anyway. But the movie made them so blatantly gross and nasty, just ugh.
That second paragraph is crucial tho. We need genuine raw emotion and/or strong comedic chops, or else the show falls apart. Now if you can’t carry a tune or even sprechgesang (speak-sing) there’s probably more of a case to be made. But if you’re giving me a good performance, I don’t care what you sound like as long as you’re not destroying the song.
Thank you for your support
You bet brother.
We can't take this shit lying down.
I refuse to live in a world where we have to smile when we get absolute crap movies of Phantom and Les Mis and somehow Johnny Depp as Sweeney Todd puts both these movies to shame, and then it takes Steven Spielberg and Autotune to actually make a decent Broadway musical that Stephen Sondheim doesn't even live to see.
Amen!!
Oh, I blame the director for sure
Giving this a standing ovation.
yeah i think people forget that it's called a musical for a reason. If you can't sing, get out. If you can't act, get out. Like we shouldn't be prioritizing one over the other.
Agreed.
Sadly these days they prioritize $$, clicks, and YAAS reactions on social media.
That is all.
But musical theatre is a business. They have to get butts in seats and pay the bills. Folks forget that. Decisions are made to keep the show alive. Maybe that means a certain name or face, maybe that means a certain type of audience. So complain about not having the performers you want at whatever end of the spectrum, or not having the audience environment you want at whatever end of the spectrum. Big names, great voices, food, no food, noisy kids, no kids. They have to do whatever they have to do to get the show on stage or you aren’t going to see it at all. Just 2 cents from a lowly pit musician.
If you want singing first, then go watch some opera
Why not both?
But I don’t like opera. I like musicals. With good acting. And good singing. Of which there are plenty. You go watch opera.
Hey, there are tons of college and community theater performers who are the equals of people on Broadway. Don't be like that.
You know who was perfect in a Classic Hollywood Musical?
Audrey Hepburn - because they dubbed her!
Razzle Dazzle is the name of the game in old Tinseltown - today at best they would've autotuned her to only a slight vocal competency - if they didn't just use her uncut raw performance - and the movie would've been shit and nowhere near a Classic.
If you're gonna replace Julie Andrews (or Philip Quast for that matter!) with a glamorous movie star, then make sure you double-down on that snub and make that movie star give the best damn fake performance, however possible. Justify the disrespect to an actual Broadway star who can act and sing the role to perfection, don't embarass the industry.
We don't need to see Hugh Jackman and Russell Crowe BOTH struggling to hit the slightly high notes in a scene that only involves the two of them - either adjust the score, autotune them, or fucking DUB THEM.
Make an actual movie, not a handheld camera home video.
THANK YOU. No one knows how to complain anymore 🤣🤣🤣
Well for the people like me who have no solo singing ability, but I have great stage presence, acting, and dancing. I love musical theatre and can’t do most roles because they require singing. As per casting people who aren’t great singers, I love being in the ensemble and you can never hear my voice stick out as I can blend with others. I think not great singers should have a chance in musical theatre as well just as long as they aren’t butchering a lead role. But to say they shouldn’t get cast at all(if that’s what you meant) is a little off putting. Those are usually the people who give it their all in the ensemble and help complete a show. Someone people just aren’t lucky enough to be born with the voice but they’re born with the passion. And sometimes hard work beats talent.
problem is op is talking about mainly big time actors who would never get put in chorus. No one would put Neil Pat in the chorus, when they would more sell tickets if he was the lead role. Like i get your point, but you'll never see a big name in the chorus like that.
NPH is a phenomenal performer though and absolutely should be playing lead roles. Just put him in shows he can actually sing instead of trying to push him out of his range. Cause he can sing well within reason.
yeah, but i'm saying he will never just get put in the ensemble
Of course, as he shouldn’t. He’s very famous and strong enough to carry lead roles. Someone like the person you responded to who’s not famous will have to take what they can get.
For sure. I just didn’t like hearing the music changed to suit him.
I posted this earlier, he was amazing as Hedwig and did win the Tony.
That’s where I was confused in the op I didn’t realize we were taking about professional shows with celebrity singers. That makes sense.
That’s literally what the post was about. Seems like you didn’t read it before complaining.
Seems like that’s what I just said I did lol. It’s that just waking up brain fog to the first Reddit post I saw.
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13d
Again I said “(if that’s what you were saying)” and I used myself as an example to represent others who would feel the same about that if that was your point, which I now understand it wasn’t.
And if you can’t sing I certainly don’t want to watch you in a lead role, no matter how much you think you “deserve” it. No one was talking about being in the chorus, hiding behind other voices.
With the first sentence I said the same thing in my reply. I was referring to the ensemble as I stated. And it’s not called hiding behind other voices it’s called harmonizing. As a professional like you say I feel you’d have respect and understanding about how important a chorus/ensemble is to a show. If that’s how you really feel about the chorus/ensemble you know nothing and should get some more experience.
A) I never said I was a professional anywhere.
B) You are the one who said you weren’t a strong singer and you like to be in the chorus so you can blend in. Maybe you’re being hard on yourself. Plenty of people can stay on key and aren’t amazing powerhouses. But if you literally can’t stay on key, then you are indeed hiding behind the voices that are (or should be).
Yeah my bad I misread the whole thing I just woke up that’s my fault. And yeah i can’t sing solos and belt but I can stay on key in group singing.
You just want to tell someone off. I never mentioned choruses until you did. I’m sorry you’re so insecure about your voice that this triggered you.
Didn’t really want tell anyone off tbh I’ll repeat again I did misunderstand the post at first glance I thought this was about not letting strong singers in musical theatre shows overall and I was just upset to see that because I know many talented people without great voices but overcompensate for it. Lol sorry for the misunderstanding. And nobody’s insecure I’m just real.
My very first sentence states there are exceptions. You can’t be real if you don’t have the facts. If you misread the whole thing, then your point is mute and maybe delete it?
Again like I said for maybe the 4th time now I misread. I said I’m real in the sense I’m aware I’m not a strong singer, not insecure about it. I don’t really think I have to delete it I acknowledged my mistake multiple times.. You’re the who seems like they’re wanting to tell someone off based on your replies and your original rant post in the first place lol.
You didnt just misread it, you added extra stuff from inside your head. It’s a real pet peeve of mine. People bringing in their own BS just so they can take offense. Like I said, I’m happy to fight at the point when other people come for me first. It’s not that hard to read before typing out a long complaint.
Yo dumbass people who keep talking when shits over is a real pet peeve of mine, I know this Is a musical chat but I box on the side and if you’re from the NJ/NY area I’d love to spar. I can only say I apologize so many times before it becomes disrespect.
Jeff Goldblum was a poor choice for Rachel’s dad on Glee. Now I’m nervous about him in the Wicked film. I think he’s a terrific actor, but not a vocalist.
I am also worried about Wicked, but mainly for Grande. Yes, she can sing (in her style). But I have yet to see her be able to act, and I think I’ve seen everything she’s actually done.
She just doesn’t blend into a character well either, in my opinion. Like watching the trailer I was painfully just aware of that I was seeing grande, not glinda
I didn’t delete a damn thing. You in quote said “I’m happy to fight”… I made a mistake, apologized and you wanted to keep running your Reddit fingers. You said the word fight first and also mentioned the police first like I knew you would. All bark no bite. You definitely don’t speak like that in person. My offer still stands.
Madonna had NO business being in Evita.
Explain
She didn't have the strength of voice for the role. They had to make multiple changes to the music to accommodate her lack of vocal range.
Really? I'm not a "Madonna person" and I thought that she pulled it off (at least, as the film issued).
While I don't necessarily disagree, she was needed to make that film get made. It's a business, and they're not going to spend millions to make a movie with a no-name when they need butts in seats.
This is why I don't watch the Les Mis movie, I watched it once and never again, with Russell Crowe talking at me in a monotone, I don't even remember Hugh Jackman or Eddie Redmayne it was so unremarkable, and this might be actually unpopular but both Anne Hathaway and Amanda Seyfried also sucked.
This is also why I won't watch the Mean Girls musical movie even though I know Renee and Auli'i can bring it because I saw some clips and Angourie is Russell Crowe in Les Mis levels bad and possibly worse.
I agree with you on all of this, and thank you for the warning about Mean Girls
Both the leads in Sweeney Todd movie.
It’s been a while since I’ve watched it but Sweeney Todd worked. I guess I just don’t understand why directors can’t tell when it’s not working.
chronic narcissism. and why'd you delete the post? it was great
The problem with Les Mis isn't necessarily bad singers (Russel Crowe does also sing) it's that they had a myriad of problems with having actors sing live in set, around 4 different vocal coaches because they had one for every location instead of one or two that travel with them and many othe problems. I think with the right directors, vocal coaches, and actors with a good work ethic it can work (e.g. Helena Bonham-Carter in Sweeney Todd), but it's rare to have all 3.
This. Obligatory link to Sideways' video on the topic and more because holy cow.
I love that video on it all
A counter unpopular opinion; both people you’ve named in your post, Russell Crowe and NPH, are very capable singers, it’s just neither are strong in the style of the shows/movies they were in. “Good singing” is more complex than can/can’t.
Totally agree. A lot of people seem like nothing special on Broadway lately. Back when shows like Les mis debuted people had such distinctive voices like Frances ruffelle and Linda Eder etc. even Michael Crawford. Now everyone sounds the same. And I heard some lousy singers in phantom, Les mis etc
This is just a bad take
Lin Manual Miranda can write songs but he shouldn’t be singing.
Oh I disagree with this. There’s something really special about seeing the writer perform their own work. Like Sara Bareilles in Waitress, Dave Malloy in Great Comet, Sting in The Last Ship, Billie Joe Armstrong in American Idiot, etc. They’re never as vocally strong as the Broadway pros but they give such a different level of performance that’s so raw and personal. If I have an option to see the writer in the role, I’ll always prefer that.
Yeahhhh… I waited to watch Hamilton for a long time, and when I did it was one with Miranda as Hamilton and I was honestly just confused like… am I missing something?
How do I get more down votes than the parent comment I’m agreeing with? I forget most of y’all aren’t even old enough to drink.
It’s probably one of the unspoken rules of the subreddit hivemind not to diss LMM. I’ll get downvoted too but I agree he’s not a strong vocalist. Insanely talented writer though
I think he is like the Jerry Seinfeld of Hamilton everyone else is doing the lifting making it great. I also tried watching it on Disney+ but couldn’t get through it because of him.
I understand what you mean. There are plenty of excellent singer/actor combos, so it's a bit confusing. Improving on singing is very difficult, though, so I hope the performers who struggle with it keep practicing. 🖤
Oh my gosh, this is so true! Would love to hear more diverse vocal types and legit trained singers in big roles.
Could we also stop making every lead a female alto and a male high tenor?
Gerard Butler as the Phantom of the Opera might have been my teenage sexual awakening but sing like the Phantom he could not. My mind was genuinely blown when I later saw the musical live in the West End.
And god, don’t even get me started on Emme.
See I think with a few more vocal lessons he could’ve been better, but he just resorted to screaming the high parts and the people in charge went “eh….. good enough” and decided to keep it that way
NPH puts butts in EXPENSIVE seats, a seat that would sell for half the price with a better singer who isn't NPH. As far as musical movies go, putting shitty singers in leading roles because of Star power is the studio's insurance
I mean, you’re pretty on the money. I know we’re actors first and singers second in musical theater, but the best performers in my opinion can act and sing.
Les Mis wasn't filmed properly for singing. Crowe actually has a band. A band that while not for me isn't the worst. They sang live over and over without music and there was no consideration for how this would effect the sound because Tom Hopper hates musicals.
Not to be that one crazy hedwig stan, but nph was FAR from the worst Hedwig. For one, I’ve never noticed anything wrong with his vocal performance so I’m not sure where you’re coming from. But besides from that, his performance as Hedwig in general was stunning. He took the character and really RAN with it. I just don’t think this was a good example of your argument because Hedwig as a character is incredibly draining and of course, you need to be able to sing and dance, but most importantly you need to know how to connect with the audience. Which NPH certainly accomplished.
I feel like this might be more of an issue regarding celebrities who can’t sing being cast vs. traditional musical theater performers who only Broadway aficionados know. Not that stunt casting can’t work out sometimes, but it is weird sometimes how people who don’t seem to really enjoy MT style singing get cast in these projects
Nipsy Russell in The Wiz. Jesssssus.
I actually saw it live (the Ashanti version) and that hit so much harder with someone who could sing.
I think you are mistaking professional musicals for what someone once called rich people community theater. For revivals like music man and funny girl the understudy could sing circles around the lead but the lead sold tickets. I paid $95 for a horrible partial view seat to see hue Jackman, not to see the music man. As for movie musicals, names convince the studio to make the movie.
I’m definitely not mistaking an actual thing for some derogatory term someone made up for something. I actually don’t understand what you’re saying. Were you glad you spent $95 just to SEE Hugh Jackman?
I’m saying I would not have spent $95 to see the music man if he wasn’t in it. Shows sacrifice some singing ability for drawing power. It’s a plus when the drawing power can sing.
Russell Crowe is not off key at all in les mis. I'm not even saying he doesn't sound good, it's just that he's literally autotuned
You can only do so much with auto tune. Some of those notes are not right.
Pre-Barba Streisand, a lot of the big Broadway stars weren’t that good of singers. They were great actors with real star power who commanded the stage— think Ethel Merman or Elaine Paige. Those women would unfortunately never be cast in a Broadway production today because they wouldn’t be considered good enough singers. It’s sad because there’s something to be said for acting and the overall performance an actor gives on stage. Watch Elaine Stritch perform “I’m here” and it’ll tell you all you need to know about how unimportant “good” singing is. I actually think the Barbra Streisand bar for singing has robbed us of a lot of potentially great Broadway performers. Everyone kind of sounds the same to me nowadays because they’re all trained to sing the same exact way.
Ethel wouldn't get cast as Madam Rose today? An interesting thought--I'll need to think on that some.
Coming from one of the staff in what I believe was the Hal Prince production office at the time, Ethel's performance in Gypsy was described as thrilling, coming from the singing (and Angela's as chilling, coming from the acting). I'm seeing a lot of (dumping) on Ethel's singing ability in this thread--yes, she has her own trademark style and may not be everyone's preference, but it's also pretty talented, it seems to me (even though Sondheim bemoaned that she wouldn't sing the triplets in Everything's Coming Up Roses).
I’m saying that she would never even be able to get her start in theatre today because of the absurdly high bar we’ve set for vocals. The understudies in the ensemble who rarely ever get to go on for principal roles can all sing and dance circles around the old greats like Ethel and Angela. It’s unfortunate because not all of those people have the ability to give a “thrilling”performance, despite their vocal talent.
I don't know--I'll leave it to the casting agent types here, as to whether that thrill manages to come through in the audition/casting process. Idina Menzel got through to Maureen and Elphaba.
Rent was known for casting unconventional singers but it should be no surprise that Idina went on to have the best career given that her voice was the most conventional Broadway sounding of the original cast.
I’m just speaking as someone who works in the industry and has seen many people successfully make the transition from regional/tours to Broadway. They all have the same sound and it’s nothing like Ethel Merman, that’s for sure.
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I get what you mean. My problem is on the opposite end of the spectrum. I feel like too many musical theater performers are focused on crazy belting and vibrato and other vocal gymnastics over actually embodying the characters and making them believable.