Was planning on buying a motorcycle tonight. Seller messages me this morning about this. Is he legit?
Thank you.
This isn't immediately a scam, more realistically someone who just didn't do some optional paperwork awhile ago. Now that they're wanting to sell, the paperwork is no longer optional.
They won't have the paperwork ready today. It takes a few days to make it happen, but if you like the bike give it a few days.
I had a situation where I paid off a bike but the bank never sent the title, then I moved to another state and they just GAVE me a title, then in a third state they wouldn't register because of the lien still showing from the first place. Was a real pain in the ass to get fixed.
In NY, the loan service provider won’t give you a title. They will provide a bunch of paper work. You have to call or visit dmv to get the title. The dmv basically verifying that it’s all paid off and you can in fact receive title. I waited a few weeks thinking it would be automatically sent to me. The documents should have some kind of number or verification that dmv needs
This isn't true. The owner holds the title in NY. The lienholder is listed on the title. A lien release is used to get a clean copy of the title if you wish, otherwise just keep both documents and let the next owner worry about filing for clean title with no lien.
Some banks use electronic titles in NY but this above is true.
Keyword "some". This is entirely different from your generalization that stated in NY the loan provider will not give you a title.
ELT program in NY must be relatively new and not widely used, because in my 12 years in banking and the car business, I still deal with titles every day.
I’m not the person you responded to initially. I didn’t generalize anything because this was the first comment I made.
I was too quick to reply, apologies. That's what I get for multi-tasking.
If you still owe them money you are in fact not the owner. A believe the lien release is what I was referring to though
No, actually there's two theories depending on your state: Lien theory and Title theory.
Loans are wild in the US lol.
In Canada you get your papers when you finance a vehicle… the title would be in your name not the loan provider.
The loan documents would detail the debtor and creditor and the status of the lien on the vehicle and the payment structure.
I can’t remember what words they put on the document but it looks like a regular title but the wording says something along the lines of “temporary title” or something similar. All the other stuff you mentioned was on my paperwork as well.
Our “pink” slips are “green” slips here lol. But they are 100% ours.
We need them to register the vehicle with the “dmv” (service [province name here]) and then the vehicle is registered and listed in the new owners name.
The slip doesn’t mention anything about the loan status - just the safety inspection results, personal details, license plate info and VIN info.
Similar to me, bank never released the title after it was paid off, and I forgot to follow through
I bought my bike in Colorado and then moved to Missouri a few years later before it was paid off. I registered it fine the first year. The next year I went to register they said you can’t because we don’t have your title. I said I don’t have my title the finance company does.
Well apparently in Missouri you have to send a form to your lien holder to have them send your title to the state.
Boy oh boy was it a pain in the ass to actually get my title once I paid it off.
This
Literally dealt with this a few weeks ago trying to buy a car for my kid. Older couple, owned the car for fifteen years, paid it off eleven years ago. They were able to get the lien release emailed to them the next day. On a separate note, I purchased a truck from my uncle. Similar situation, was purchased new in 1992, paid off in 1995 or 1996. I went to Secretary of State, they informed me of a lien on it. Since my uncle was no longer mentally capable of handling the situation, I contacted GM Financial or whoever it was. They had no record of the truck, let alone the loan. That was a fun issue to deal with. Took about three months to get that sorted out.
that was me exactly. I never got a new title when I paid off my bike and had to request a new copy of the pay off letter and then ask DMV for a new title before I could sell.
Exactly. He's being honest about paperwork issues and don't buy anything until the paperwork is sorted.
Also, if the title is there but has a lien, do not buy without a lien release
I just sold my car and gave him the lien release from the bank. We had to wait three weeks for the title to come in the mail and I gave him and transfer of sale from the DMV Website..
He has the title the Lein is something they put on the title when someone finances it basically saying that someone ows money on the bike so you have to get the lein released after it’s payed for so you can transfer the title otherwise without it released you will get the title but won’t be able to transfer it have him go to the dealership to get it released with you if it didn’t get released don’t buy it bc you’ll never get it transferred to the name so you won’t be able to register it
I will say this exact scenario happened to me. I had paid off my bike, BMW didn't release the title. We have e-title here so when I went to get a paper one, I couldn't and it caused a long enough delay to tank the deal. My fault for not checking sooner but I hadn't heard of a banks just not releasing the title even after payoff.
Every time I read a post like this, I get motivated to track down the title to all the vehicles in the house.
Nah, it'll probably wait 'til tomorrow.
In my state the current registered owner can go to the DMV and have a new title printed for $25, even if there are liens on it. Bc the liens show on the title. No excuse to not have one here. So it's a huge red flag for me to see titleless vehicles. If I smell BS on something I'm interested in, I always offer to go with them to the DMV and pay all the title fees for them to print the title. You know they're full of BS when they refuse that bc it's no cost to them....I've had one or 2 take me up on it. Both of which I purchased
This. I had to get a new title for my truck because the old one was water damaged and it took a couple dollars and a visit to the county clerk and I had a new title in hand the next day. They also have to ability to check and see if it’s been released.
If the seller is legit it shouldn’t take very long.
Every state is different so don’t assume this is possible
I make sure all my titles are in the same place that way I never have to worry about it, I do the same withy wallet and keys
I cannot stress this enough. In my state, the title must be in the sellers name or you cannot title it. Period.
People all the time say "you can just file for a lost title" or "you can get a bonded title through the insurance company" etc.
In my state you CANNOT do those things unless you are the current registered owner. You'd be amazed at what people will tell you when they are trying to pull some slimey sleazy bullshit. I no see clean title, I no buy. Not even for parts because in my state you can't even scrap a vehicle without a title unless it's 25 years old, or older. So if you buy newer for parts, you're stuck with the frame
Are there states where you can get a duplicate title if you're not the registered owner? That would be wild. Walk into the DMV, "Yeah, my neighbor is selling me his R1250GS and can't find the title. Can you just give me a duplicate title?" Queue surprised neighbor when you have title to his bike.
I think there are processes for abandoned vehicles, but I imagine there's some documentation that needs to go with that.
In my case im going to go buy a bike in the morning today. The guy has it financed through a bank and says i have to go with him to basically buy the bike from the bank and then they hand over the title. Will it be that easy or am i looking at some delays?
Probably depends on what state you are in but I would absolutely make sure you get all the documentation. If this was my state and there's money owed on it and you're satisfying the lien they should be able to provide all the paperwork stating you did so. that you both could then take to the DMV to have the lien removed from the title and transferred to you. Ymmv
Piggybacking to share my experience.
Bought 09 FZ09 from a dude who had moved to France but gave his roommate a PoA. Cash to him, title to me, all is well. I go to mvd to register and they return to me with: "this is not the up to date title. It's a duplicate that has been superseded". My heart sank. I messaged the France dude and for almost 3 weeks no answer. I thought I was screwed...
I was lucky. He was on holiday and had no email. He called me on his dime the day he got my email and said he had lost the title, or so he thought, and prior to moving found the original. He didn't cancel the replacement so it was the current one. He said he'd look to see if he could find the good one and turns out he did. Overnighted to me and all was well.
If you ever have the unfortunate experience to try to register without a title, it is a nightmare. It involves a leo doing a visual verification to see if bike is stolen or not, verification of mileage, salvage, and then going before a clerk of court. This may differ from state to state but it's not an easy process.
Good luck with whatever you decide but if the title is not clean it may not be worth the trouble, regardless of the deal or integrity of seller.
Yes, this. There is always another bike to buy.
Agreed. Have him get the title and all that if it's so easy. I just went through this with my motorcycle and it wasn't complicated but I had all the required documents. He needs a lien release letter from the lien holder, addressed to the name on the title, in order to release the lien. He might be legit but he needs to get that straight.
Not necessarily, I would say most people have their bikes financed so the lender/bank will have possession of the title in that case. Actually pretty common
Just as additional information, there’s NO way that the owner can just be “made into your name”.
DMV is always gonna want their cut from a vehicle sale
Facts.
It sounds like he’s trying to get the title? As long he he pays for it out of his pocket and what ever deal they work out - whether that price gets added to the sale price or the seller doesn’t get reimbursed for being a goober…
I would give them the benefit of the doubt, but not my money. A long time ago I had paid a vehicle off and the lien release was sent to me, but I never got around to running to the DMV to have it reissued. So when I went to trade it in for another vehicle, I had to scramble to find that release for them to take ownership. You can transfer the title with a lien, as long as the release paperwork is supplied at the same time.
So I’d say tell him to get it in his name, and get back to me.
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27d
You can just provide it along with the title, the issue is a lien release is really easy to fake. The DMV will know the difference when they check but you may not.
In the past, I always went in and just got a new title sent without the lien. Made it a simpler process when the day came to sell.
Thank you!
This is the answer, sometimes stuff happens. We really only think about titles when buying or selling and some people aren't good at keeping their paperwork in order. But that's not your problem as a buyer. It's up the seller to come up with a clean title or no sale.
You do not hand them one penny, until such time as they have a title in THEIR NAME.
It is a common thing for people to forget to retitle after loan payoff, I wouldn't be worried about that part of it. Still it needs to go to a title in his name before going to you.
Don't know your state. Typically will take 3-6 weeks for the DMV to issue a new title to him once he does the loan payoff paperwork. In my state it takes 3+ months to get a DMV appointment, so Id be looking at 4-5 months.
I'd start shopping for new bikes if you are in any sort of hurry.
Yeesh, 3 months for a DMV appointment? That’s harsh. Worst I saw was Las Vegas, there you could either go on any given morning without an appointment but it was about a 6 hour wait, or you could get an appointment 1-2 weeks out and have a 15 minute wait when you get there.
It is Vegas. They are booked out 3-4 months now.
Waiting days are a joke. Only 2 days a week now. I drive by one of the least used DMV's (Decatur) on Saturday & Wednesday mornings and kid you not, at 6 am the line is wrapped around the building hundreds of people in line.
OOF, yea I’ve been gone for a few years. Back in 22 I was trying to sell a car on short notice when I was moving, had to get a title and decided to try a waiting day at the location on Flamingo. I arrived at 5 and still spent pretty much the entire day there, it was aweful.
But my wife did drop off snacks for me and the randoms around me in line, lol. That was fun
Thank you!
For the advice or for not having to deal with Vegas' DMV ?
:)
y'all need to move to Florida. Or why don't you just go to a different county DMV?
They actually made a rule you must go to the DMV in your city or however it's worded. To stop people from inundating the small rural DMV staffed by like 2 people.
The appointment system works, you are in and out on under 30 mins usually but the wait to get it is fucking idiotic.
wow... that's crazy. My county in FL does appointments but if I want same day, I'm just going one county over.
type this: “no problem, just let me know when you have a clean title.”
then hit send.
then continue shopping for bikes while you wait and if you find one, don’t wait for this guy.
Tell him to ping you when he has a title in his name. In his hands. Not at the bank. Not at the DMV.
This is the real answer. Keeping your options open while also shutting down fraudsters.
No title, no sale
“Sorry, I’m going to hold off until you get the title in hand. If it’s still available once you get the title I will gladly take it off your hands
No biggy. Tell him to hit you up when he has the title in hand and you keep shopping.
Bad news bro I'm not buying your bike if there are title shenanigans get your shit together
I wouldn’t buy it until he gets the title. Could be legit but not worth it imo.
Am I the only person who; doesn't see the seller asking for any money, being completely honest with OP, and generally being a good seller?
Just wait till he gets a clean title bro, this is pretty common.
I have hope in people so I would wait a little, but better safe than sorry man, it's your hard-earned money anyway and scammers are getting better and better
I'm not understanding the "better safe than sorry" part. What can OP possibly lose here?
You would have to pay the lein before you got a title
Bikes are hard to register anyways that's why if no title don't buy it not worth the hassle
Don’t buy unless the title is present and in their name. No “we’ll just get it put in your name” bs. Someone else said give them the benefit of the doubt but don’t give them a penny. That’s really great advice.
E: It was u/jehoshaphat!
It is possible he lost the title. But don’t buy a bike without one. Make him obtain one and wait till he did that. Don’t leave any deposits too
Run
Even if they got the title, make sure the frame Vin matches
He never had the title.
Walk away
Dont waste another second on thos guy. Move on and save yourself a lot of stress.
If Honda has a lein on the motorcycle and Honda's bank provided the financing, then Honda's bank is holding the title. You can go to the bank together and get it signed over after the lein is paid off.
No Sale.
If they ain't got title in hand with no lien on it, don't buy.
When I bought my bike earlier this year, seller thought he had the title but when I drove 2.5 hours to go and get the bike he had some random papers but no physical title.
He was from Florida and apparently they can do e-title there meaning you don't normally get a physical title unless it's sold to someone in a state where it's required. I live in Texas, were required to have a physical title as far as I know.
Long story short he was able to go to the county clerk's office and have the title mailed to him. Gave him the cash the following week when I picked it up with a paper title.
As others have said. NEVER BUY WITHOUT THE TITLE. There are numerous scams and trouble you could end up involved in without it.
In Florida you go to the tax collectors not the clerk or court. And if you had gone there you could have gotten it transfered to you with a new title on the spot. We do have paper titles, it's just like $5 extra if you want it so some people don't.
He moved here to Texas. Had to have it transferred from Florida
Back, the, fuck, out, NOW.
On to the next bike…..
Block and move onto the next.
Yeah, no deal. No title = big headache. And that’s if it’s NOT stolen.
I sold my bike last summer and realized that I couldn’t find the title. So I put the sale on hold until I got a duplicate myself.
Sorry if this is off topic but how the hell do US titles work? Like here in Canada you can't register or insure a vehicle without an ownership, and you can be ticketed for not having it at a traffic stop. How does this happen so much lol
With most states your vehicle registration turns into your proof of ownership. The only time you need the title is when you sell the bike or car and register it with the state
keep looking for another bike. if he finds the title before you find another bike than take it
Wait until they have the title in hand, otherwise pass on the deal
If he's legit he'll work on getting a new title. I did this to somebody once. Mixed up the envelopes with the old title and the new one with the lien released and threw away the new one. Guy came with cash in hand and when I went to grab the title and realized my mistake.
Didn't take any cash until I had the new title from the DMV a week later, which I then signed over. See if he can show you a copy of the lien release doc or a statement showing he's paid off the loan. If he doesn't have either of those then just bail on this one.
EDIT: A copy of those doesn't mean you should hand over cash. They don't mean anything until he has a new title in hand.
Anyone without a Title or a Lean Release makes it really difficult for you to put the Ownership in your name. Let him clear up the paperwork before exchanging money or you’ll be SOL!
Happens. I had to buy a replacement for some $50. Can't recall. Hassle but not an insurmountable issue. However without it, no sale!
How do people make it through life without being able to figure stuff like this out. Blows my mind.
Hard pass
Run. Do not buy.
Red flag do not buy. Block the number
In 3 messages he went “I can’t find it, I know I have it” to “I must not have sent for it”
This dude is a liar. Abort.
Stolen bike! Stay Away!
Giant red flag no deal
Hell nah dude this is Red Flag number 1
He didn’t pay off the bike yet. He cant get title to bike is paid in full.. i would together with him call the lender and see what you can work out.. it is possible for loan to be put into your name or you get loan from lender paying off bike and deduct that amount from price. Nut really it seems more trouble and possible risk than it is worth. There are thousands of of bikes For sale
Worst thing ever is when I sold a paid-off house and the title insurance company found out that fucking Wells Fargo hadn’t released the lien. Sometimes corporations don’t do what they say they did or are supposed to.
It's most likely a digital title and the county clerk was never notified of payoff. I live in Ohio and have had this happen before. It's a big fucking ripoff if you ask me. Buy a new vehicle and pay for titling service, only to pay more money for a physical copy of the title later down the road.
Anyway, once the county clerk is informed of payoff he will have to buy a physical copy and then sign that over to you. I would not give any money until he has it all squared away though.
Skip.
I just bought a bike a few weeks ago and the owner couldn't find the title. We went to a vehicle registration office nearby together and had them re-title it in my name right there and paid afterwards. Had to wait til the next morning since I checked it out on a Sunday.
When I sold my bike I had also lost the title. Went to the DOL and got an Affidavit in Lieu of Title. All good.
I didnt have my title when I went to trade in my bike, I completely forgot about it. I had to contact the bank for a lien release, which proves to the dealership that I own the bike. They emailed it to me within 5 minutes. I think he can take that to DMV to get a duplicate title, or the bank will mail it to him in 3-5 business days. But don’t do anything until he provides the title. Good luck.
NO TITLE NO SALE
Could he be telling the truth? Yes. Do you need to chance it? No.
When a lien is released you can call the company but usually they send it out within 10 days with the lien release notice and the title. If he truly lost the title he needs to take it off the market until he gets a new title. It's not your responsibility and you're probably in for a big headache if you purchase the bike.
Also if someone doesn't have title in their name they are legally able to sell it because in the eyes of the law they don't own it yet.
I had a loan out for a Honda Africa Twin that I sold. Since my credit union "owned" it, I never had the real title. The buyer met up with me at my bank and gave me the cash ($10k and I owed like $4500) so I paid the loan, deposited the remainder in my account, and they also gave me a lien release form on the spot. Went straight over to the BMV and made the transfer and new owner took off no problem.
This was in Ohio so maybe it's more relaxed here, but this guy may be legit. I had no idea I had to do all that first before I could get the "real" title, I should have known but it was my first time ever doing that so idk. Just don't mess around with it if they aren't transparent about whats going on, but may not hurt to give em the benefit of the doubt
No title, no buy.
I'd probably go check it out, but until he has a title IN HIS NAME, I wouldn't give him a penny.
His bank probably have the title. You should meet him there anyway if their's a lien or any kind of lien release needed. If he hasn't paid off the bank, he doesn't own the bike to sell it.
I had this happen with one of my vehicles once ... I paid off the loan and never realised the bank didn't finish up all the title paperwork. It's a legit issue, but you'll know quickly if his response to meeting you at the bank is evasive.
Fishy as hell. First he says he "knows" he has the title, then later he says he doesn't but he can get it with a lien release?
Yeah, when the seller says "It's easy to get a title" the only correct response is:
"GREAT! Go get one, in your name, and when you have it, send me a message. Thanks!"
"Skipping title" on a motorcycle is very common, at least in my state. Technically it's illegal but nobody really enforces it. Of the two motorcycles in my garage one of them was purchased on a skipped title.
Lien release is not unusual when buying a vehicle. If he took a loan out to buy the bike and it hasn't been paid off yet then there will be a lien on it. He will have to pay off the loan as you pay for the bike.
I bought a bike once with one and the paperwork was a bit annoying but really not that big of a deal. I got a good price on it because he was anxious to get out from under the debt. We just met at the bank that had the lien and did the whole thing there. The banker talked me through the process and it was just some extra paperwork when I went to the DMV to title it. I imagine the specifics are different from state to state though.
You can get a bill of sale and have the seller cover any title cost or reduce the price because you should not have to pay for his ignorance.
Obviously just don't buy the bike without a title, there is no reason to suspect him a liar but it is just too risky to hand him your money with the promise that you will maybe get the title some day. If he is being honest that shouldn't be a problem for him or you.
Idk where my car title is. Good thing I plan to keep it forever
Only purchase a bike with a clean (unencumbered) title. There are way too many bikes out there for sale - don't mess around with this one.
It sounds like a legit problem - most people don't really pay attention to documentation once the vehicle rolls out from the dealership.
The traditional process (if this was financed) is that the lienholder (bank/lender etc) will have their name on the title when issued by the DMV and in the bank's possession. Many times, the dealership handles the communication with their own financial/lending institution so the buyer isn't "bothered". It never even comes to the buyer. Once the lien is released, the bank updates the title with the DMV, gets their name removed and mails out the title in the buyer's name to the buyer. This happens *automatically* (at least from a buyer/customer perspective). Then, this buyer is free to sell the vehicle with a title in their name in the market. Once sold, the title would then be updated with the new buyer's name.
It seems like, in your case, this "bro" doesn't have the updated title from the lienholder. The release should've been automatic if the lien is paid off. The bro probably lost the title or hasn't paid the lien out. Both are perhaps legit. He is now proposing to you that, if the title hasn't been updated to his name, he could just get it directly transferred to your name skipping the middle step of first transferring to your name. This is the part that concerns me. If the title is still in the lienholder's name, they would also then have to sign off on the sale (I may be wrong) which means extra wait time and headache for you.
My only suggestion is to not let this tarnish the validity of the seller. These could be legit issues that he's having to work through - being unprepared to wait till the day of sale on his part is just a sign of laziness/procrastination/being human. Wait to see what happens, don't get impatient. But, under no circumstances, should you take delivery or ride off with the bike under just verbal/text assurances. Make sure he shows you the title first before exchanging keys/money.
I’d just tell them I’m fine to wait till they have the title.
If they’re not scamming you they shouldn’t care. If they are then you dodge a bullet
Probably not a scam, probably just an honest oversight on the part of that seller.
But…
Do NOT hand that seller any money, definitely not the full asking price amount or the negotiated price until they go through the process of having the lein removed from the title, assuming they did pay off the loan in full and can work with the leinholder to prove it.
If they pressure you to pay for the bike, no matter what they offer, do not hand over any money (except maybe a small deposit to hold it if you trust them and really want that bike), do not let them give you the keys, and do not take possession of that bike until that seller goes through the process and works with the lender (by phone usually) to gets the lein removed and a new clear title issued to him/her.
That’s what a clear title is… no leins. As opposed to a clean title, no salvage title (or bonded title in states that do that questionable sketchy nonsense).
In some U.S. states a title can be in the owner’s name but also have a section on it for collateral loans against it by any lein holders.
Any time a bike is financed there is a lein holder for that financing loan.
When the loan is fully paid the owner is supposed to contact the leinholder to get them to sign off that the lein has been paid off and go through the paperwork process to have that leinholder removed from title.
So many people either don’t know or don’t get around to applying to have the leinholder removed after the loan has been paid off.
While the title is showing a leinholder the asset can not legally be sold. The owner must prove that that lein obligation’s terms were met and have them removed from the title.
That is not a quick process, but it’s also usually mot a hard process.
If the title has the seller’s name in the owner section. For the bike and you don’t feel the urgent need to have the bike today it’s not a big deal.
The seller just needs to prove that the lein was paid and contact the loan company who holds the lein to find out their procedure for having the lein removed from that title and wait for the state to accept the lein holder’s removal request and issue a replacement title with the lein no longer on the title.
Anyone listing a vehicle for sale should already have done that before they try to sell it.
The dealer will not be able to do anything to solve the issue as it’s not their bike, not their title, and not their lein.
But if the seller’s name is what’s showing as the owner of the bike it’s a lot less likely to be a scam.
Doesn’t mean it’s not, but a lot less likely if the owner name section shows the seller’s correct info.
There’s more bikes. This one’s not worth the headache
What state? Like in Texas we don’t have physical titles when under Lien. They are electronic until the lien is paid then a physical title is printed and mailed to you.
Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!
Is he legit??? Maybe... but why take the risk. Just look for the next marketplace motorcycle.
He seems honest just tell him to co tact you once he figures out the stuff about the title
Having lost the title to my own car it’s probably not false but i wouldn’t buy it. If he owns it he just needs to send paperwork to the dmv for a replacement.
I don’t get that vibe
lush versed busy direction quaint theory bear nail quarrelsome vast
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
Something similar just happened to me. I purchased an r6 from someone who had a lien on the title, paid it off, and had to get the lien released along with a new title in my name.
Seemed sketchy but it all worked out. I wouldn’t 100% dismiss this right away
As much as you may want it, sometimes you just have to walk away.
Yeah, without a title in the sellers name you have no idea they are able to sell the bike legally. I would walk away. Always confirm vin on title matches bike and if new enough that the mileage makes sense. Some people disconnect the speedometer to keep mileage low. Good luck!
This happened to me a while ago, prestine bike, no title,.reduced price by £25 as this is how much it costs to replace. Did a check to find out if the bike was a write off after I had purchased it while waiting... And it had... No issues with insuring or riding but if any things happens the pay out from insurance is reduced.
Basically he had lied...
Walk away....
The last minute message is a red flag. Any legitimate seller would be upfront and know about a lien existing with a finance company, I’ve sold a bike that wasn’t paid off but I sent the payoff quote to the buyer and communicated the status of when I sent the final payment and when I forwarded the title. Kindly blow this person off, the bike could be stolen for all you know and a good reason to have the VIN checked with any sketchy sellers.
When I buy from a guy I found on the internet I only take something with a clear title in the name of the person selling it and I check the ID. Especially with bikes since stolen bikes are super common compared to cars
This title thing is so weird to me, in my country when i buy a bike for example, the seller logs in to the national registry and enters my social id and i do the same but accept it, it then is automatically moved over to my name and its automatically insured
Run! You don't want to inherit a lien of an unknown amount!
He is probably under on his bike, and he would take the money you give him to pay off loan and eat the rest, and then give you the title when it comes in. You need a lot of trust to do that with someone. But I don’t get scam automatically. I actually tried to do the same thing with my old bike but no one trusted me. 🤷♂️
Run.
good way to get a super good deal on it. worst to worst get a photo of his ID write a bill of sale yourself
This exact situation happened to me. Someone offered me their bike and the night before told me they had a lien on the bike they needed to fix. Then called off the entire deal the next day.
Get the exact amount of the lien owing and to whom it’s owed, get a bank draft for the lien holder and what’s left one for the seller. Go to the lien holder and get a receipt showing full payment made. Should be a problem, I’ve sold and bought vehicles like this
It feels sketchy as hell to buy a bike with no title. I wouldn’t do it.
I had the same thing happened to me. I was going to buy a Harley Dyna, I test rode it, and we agreed on the price. He then said he couldn't find the title. He said he had to send off for it. 6 weeks later he called and said he had received it. I told him I was sorry but I had already bought a different bike.
I'd be leery of this guy. He's pulling a scam.
Runnnn
Probably not a scam, but here it takes a week or two to get the release, and I wouldn’t give him money until he has a clean title.
Sketch. Run away. No title, no sale.
Run away- that is going to be a headache not worth your time or money
This one sounds kind of honest, so I would just wait and see if he does the lead transfer at the DMV if you like the bike. Unfortunately that takes a while. He'll have to take his title to the DMV, fill out a form, then they'll take his current title and mail him a new one without the lien written on it, which takes however long it takes for them to mail it to him.
Sounds like he paid off the loan but never got a reissued clear title. Keep in touch with him, because he sounds like he's taking the right steps, but don't do any paperwork or any money change hands until this is sorted first.
I've dealt with this before. My advice? Walk away. If they don't have a free and clear title, walk away. Don't even accept a title in someone else's name, and a bill of sale. You'll get burned in the end.
Walk AWAY!!!
He might be legit. If he bought the bike on payments they would have eventually sent him a release and it would be titled in his name assuming he has paid it off.
If he hasn't paid it off yet that's basically a no-go, he needs to find the money, get it to Honda Finance, and he would get the title in about two weeks.
If he did pay it off but can't find the the title it would just be a matter of going to whatever state facility applies where he lives and getting a copy of the title. I couldn't say how long that process would take.
Regardless he isn't a dealer, so you absolutely should not enter into any arrangement where he sends you the title, does the paperwork for you, or you buy the bike and he pays it off and has Honda send the title to you. None of that is on the up and up even if he genuinely has good intentions. If he can't produce the title it's scrap and spare parts because you can't legally buy, title, register, or operate the bike on the road.
You need a release of interest letter from Honda Finance stating they have no further interest ( ie holding a lien on VIN *****************.)
Has to be on Honda’s letterhead , signed, etc etc.. at the very least or you cannot put it in your name. Be careful, could be legit, but this guy is very ignorant at least or trying to get the cash and not pay off the bike, right?
I bought a Honda brand new. I didn't have to do anything once it was paid off. They just shipped the title and release in the mail.
Yesterday I wouldn’t have thought this was a scam attempt. But as of yesterday, I had only heard this story once, and that was also yesterday. So…
Seems a little weird but not really scammy yet. Just wait and see if he comes up with the paperwork and a legit title before buying
I would pass without a title in the sellers name. A bike I tried to buy a while ago the seller never transferred the title. We tried to go to a dmv but they told him it had to be transferred to his name first and a bunch of back due fees because he never transferred it. Ended up working out in the end. He got the title and we did the deal. Happened to me another time too with a dirt bike. Not sure why people don’t transfer or keep titles in safe places.
Doesn’t matter, no title no sale, if he gets the title then by all means go for it.
I will never buy a vehicle w/o a title or an absolute concrete contract that a lien is paid off if I’m buying out the loan.
I no longer buy motorcycles without a clean title. The hoops that you have to go through to get a title probably aren’t worth the discount on the bike. When it comes to lack of titles and I’m not sure which is worse boat owners or motorcycle owners.
I dealt with this when I sold my truck. In Ohio, they no longer automatically send your title to you when you pay off the loan, like they used to. I had to pay off the loan, request the title after 10 days, physically get the title and then I could do the transfer. Luckily, I found a buyer who was understanding and was willing to do this process with me.
That being said, it sounds like this guy maybe already has it paid off and just didn't realize he doesn't have a physical title?
I agree no title no sale, if I was selling a bike or car or anything, I'd find my title before I'd list whatever for sale... may not be a scam but something is off IMO
Offer the guy half his money now and the other half when he produces the lien free title. You get the bike sooner although you’re riding a little dirty. Still do the bill of sale & get him to sign a lost title affidavit in case one never shows up. After a few months, you go apply for a new title & pay the sales tax & registration fee. More work, but less money.
what does your gut tell you
Motorcycle dealerships always forget to finish their paperwork. I have bought 6-7 dirt bikes & snow mobiles from Yamaha factory dealers. Every time I want to sell it or for some reason need the title, when I call them they forgot to do something. They finish up their end & send it. You can run a title search to verify & you can request the outstanding loan amount from the lender.
Here in Finland there is a database which records who owns what vehicle. Buying and selling is easy, as you just log in and transfer ownership online.
Don't do it, sounds super sketchy though me. No title and he's talking about a lien. Yeah I would move on to the next bike there are always more.
Run Forest runnnnn
Nothing jumps out and says “scam” from these messages. However, the potential is there. We don’t know how far he is in the process of obtaining a clean title and you don’t want to get involved paying for extra fees or trying to pay off his liens. As others have said, tell him you’ll be interested once he has a clean title in hand. Until then, keep shopping around. My guess, you’ll find another motorcycle with a clean title before this guy gets his stuff together.
massive red flag. tell him to reach out when he has title in hand. i bet he ghosts you immediately.
Not sure if this is available in your country but in the UK there is a service you can pay for who will check the registration number and tell you if there is outstanding finance or claim or if it's been in a crash. Well worth it even though it costs money in my experience, it saved me from putting down thousands of pounds on a car that belonged to a finance company (which the seller lied about).
let me see it if it's 2007 Honda 919(red).
I got my baby stolen in Montana 2020, still looking for her.
Unfortunately not that bike, but I’ll keep a lookout!
Sounds like he just paid it off and it trying to get the title made
If you get a lien release from the bank, you got the loan from not from Honda is my first red flag
Don’t do anything until they have the free and clear title in hand. Otherwise you’re likely going to buy a bike that he does not own in his name.
No title, walk away. Title issues are a massive headache, and that’s in a best case scenario.
Tell him as soon as he gets the title, you’d be willing to meet up again. Until then, look elsewhere.
I’d give him the benefit of the doubt though that he doesn’t sound like he’s lying. Sometimes lien release documents and titles get screwed up and it can be difficult to get the title reissued from the DMV. I had it happen to me once on a car and it was kind of a pain. What he’s talking about would probably technically work, but it’s a lot of risk on your end. Just tell him to title it in his name and then you can move forward.
I worked in car sales, I personally would make sure you see a legitimate Lien Release showing that the motorcycle is PAID OFF by said lender and that the Title is Free and Clear.
Definitely, I appreciate it!
You would have to call the count police dept first for them to do a VI. Check and fill out proper forms. The seller would need to acquire another title. It's $22 here in GQ
Run for the hills.
Yup all kinds of retarded things like this happen. If you're super paranoid you can do a Vin search to see if it's stolen or about to get repoed
Definitely don’t buy it… even if you still wanted it, it’s worth a lot less without a title. Most likely stolen
No title - no cash! Ain’t worth losing your money over.
Don't buy anything without a title. I don't care how old it is.
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27d
I was thinking duplicate title as well, it just freaked me out when he brought up Lien release, I’ve never heard of that. Thank you!
Most likely after he paid it off, he never transferred the title to his name. So he has to get the lien release faxed to the BMV so they will issue a replacement in his name. Pretty stupid to be honest.
Or he's trying to scam you.
Not knowing if you sent for a title is a red flag. Either they are literally a fucking idiot, or, full of shit, or both. Best not to buy a bike from a moron.
Fuck off with that deal. Plenty of good titled bikes.
RUN!
This isn’t a big deal and the people in the comments screaming to run away clearly have little experience buying/ selling.
It sounds like he paid off the loan he had on it and got the title, which he lost. Before he can get a new title, he has to prove the lien is fulfilled, hence the release.
He should not title it in your name though, have him get a replacement title in his name, then after you buy the bike, you will have to register and re-title in your name.
If the bike is nice and it’s a decent deal, I would stick with it but wait till he gets the title in his hand and in his name .
Thank you! There’s been no sign of him (so far) wanting to screw me over so I appreciate the advice!
Not sketchy, not big deal, dude let you know before hand.
I'd personally just say 'thanks for letting me know, dont want to deal with the headache of all of the paperwork etc, so lmk when you have a clear title in hand in a few weeks'
There’s other bikes. Sounds shady af.
no title, no buy
as simple as that
the seller might be honest, they might not be, no way of telling other than having the title in their hand