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Husband admitted he's been withholding his real feelings in arguments and placating me for years
Sounds like you fight to win…instead of to come together.
You should first start off by being humble and apologizing for being a brute.
There’s no pride in having verbally beat your SO into submission.
Stop making excuses and being upset with him for your behavior.
Decide if you’re actually going to change or if you want to pull the plug.
This is pretty spot on. You're right. Thank you
You need to have a convo about figuring out a path to help one another feel safe to be transparent (but kind) in these conversations. For you that means working on not taking advantage of how your verbal processing works faster than his (he needs to come up with an idea of what would be helpful for him when he’s feeling that way and a way to signal it in a discussion that’s overwhelming him since you aren’t a mind reader…but you also need to slow down and be protective over his vulnerability here), taking breaks when things get too heated so you two can both regroup without an activated flight/fight/freeze/fawn response dictating things, and your finding other healthier outlets for some of that emotion (somatic or dbt therapy perhaps?).
For him, this means he needs to probably be in therapy so he has another space to practice identifying his feelings, noticing when he’s feeling overwhelmed and shutting down, preemptively finding better practices with you to ensure he’s better able to communicate, and finding new ways to verbalize emotions and needs he clearly doesn’t have much practice in doing.
Have you two tried couples counseling? I think it could be really helpful if you find someone who is a good fit
Yeah the tone on this post is wild.
“Y’all my dog flinches when I try to pet him because I often hit him, why is he so dumb?”
MIC DROP
Well I thought I made it fairly clear that I do realize that Im part of the problem and can see how my conflict-style has created an environment where he feels reluctant to be transparent. 🤷🏼♀️
I would suggest therapy, for you and as a couple. I am like your husband. I get tired of trying to explain myself when my husband instead of trying to understand my point of view all he does is justify his actions, and use my words against me (it doesn’t help that english is not my native language, but it is his). I feel defeated, the same way you are feeling right now, and ai am guessing your husband has been feeling for a while now. I am in therapy and one of the things that I learned is that trying to convince someone you are right is part of wanting to control the situation. You need to come from a place of acceptance of the other person, his reality and his feelings. That is love. I hope you can solve this, but having an intermediary might help him open up and feel safe to express his feelings.
Great - so what are you going to do about it?
Man I have tried multiple times to enroll in personal therapy and have never been able to find a local provider accepting new clients. Even my doctor was not able to find one. A year ago I accepted that tele-therapy was my only option and enrolled and had a great first session and then the therapist did not show up for the tele-appointment (that I'd arranged my whole day around) the next 3 times in a row! So I had to drop that. I will try again though...I'm absolutely certain I need it.
That is seriously no effort. You can do better. Think of modeling healthy patterns for your kids!
Do there are no therapists or therapy courses available in the whole world, anywhere? Amazing!!
They just also have stopped selling books.
Jesus. I in no way implied that. Get off your high horse.
It sounds like you care at least, which is a good start. Get into therapy and tell them everything you told Reddit. Maybe bring your husband so he can give his side.
Lol you use that line with your husband as well?
If that response is what you do with your husband, then you’re in deep trouble.
It sounds like your husband was in a lose-lose situation with you. You want him to share his real feelings with you, but when he did, you wanted him to mold his feelings to suit you. Then he did just that and now you’re even more pissed. From what you wrote- I think this is on you.
Fair enough. I guess. Although I've never pressured him to share his real feelings with me- rather I just always assumed by default that he was since we are both adults. This is the first time I'm realizing he's just been phoning it in to resolve the conflict as easily and quickly as possible to move on. All the while building up resentment towards me because of it.
You seem to believe that accumulated resentment is worse than immediate verbal lashings and that’s not always true. Words leave scars too.
You admitted that you would box him in and use his words against him. I do t understand what you’re hoping to change in him. You need to change the way YOU communicate and the way YOU compromise.
Yeah this is fair.
It's crucial, I know the emotional cage he lives in well.
rather I just always assumed by default that he was since we are both adults.
It's ironic that you say this because the way you describe how you argue is the way a child lashes out. Personally, I'd rather placate than deal with a tantrum.
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4d
Wtf. Some of these replies are getting seriously out of control
No name calling, discrimination or unproductive insults. At mod discretion, insulting someone will result in post/comment removal and possible banning. We don't care who started it.
Your children will also learn to hide their feelings from you.
I can confirm that this is exactly what will happen if OP doesn't stop making excuses and blaming other people and start to look honestly at herself and make some changes.
Crushing.
Imagine how they feel
This is how it needs to be seen.
I know from experience.
I was in a similar boat as your husband...for years and years. (decades, really)
My wife came from the type of family that would scream, yell, throw things, etc. My family almost never raised our voices. My parents would go outside when they argued.
Neither of which are necessarily healthy.
Some of our arguments early in our marriage set a tone that she was clearly better at winning them than I was. She was no-holds-barred and I felt like I needed to comply if I wanted a chance at keeping the peace.
On top of that, I was always afraid (irrationally) that if I set my wife off that it would just lead to her resentment and eventually she would leave me. That the argument would be the beginning of the end... so, if I could just stuff it all down then we could stay together. (crazy, i know)
So, I just really had no idea how to argue with my wife. My anxiety would skyrocket the moment I thought she was angry. Plus, my wife can get cold when she's mad or hurt. It scares the shit out of me. I just can't turn off my emotions like she can. Which compounds my anxiety and fear that she'll leave. In general, if an argument started I would shutdown and usually run off. "I'm going to the store. I need time to think and cool off." I was always so afraid I'd say something that would be irreparable.
On the flip side, my wife thought all these years I didn't care. She thought that I didn't think our marriage was worth fighting for.
About 18 months ago... we had a huge fight and a bunch of things came pouring out from both of us. One of the things we did (when we were calm) is come up with some rules of engagement. We calmly sought to understand the other persons perspective and reasoning for how we "fought." The big things were: - We assured each other we don't want a divorce - Unless the argument is about something divorce-worthy (like cheating) then we don't need to worry about our marriage ending - we just need to work through the issue - She won't yell and scream, etc - I won't run away - We'll both have the opportunity to (safely) express how we feel - We'll work to resolve the issue ASAP so it doesn't fester
We have gotten much, much better at arguing and resolving conflict. We've had more "arguments" these past 18 months than the previous 26 years, combined. We learned to just try to nip things in the bud and deal with them than let it fester.
My wife got very explicit in our arguments since then. "Is there anything else you'd like to say? Are you sure?" "Are you satisfied with this resolution?" "Have I been fair and understanding in hearing you?"
It's been tough. But we're both much happier, now.
I hope that helps. I hope you two can work it out.
This is helpful and I appreciate you taking the time to share. You and your spouse sound extremely similar to us. I like the idea of setting hard rules for engagement, although I imagine it's so hard to stick to in the heat of the moment. Especially "I will not yell". It's encouraging to me that you've been able to have some success. Gives me some hope
You do not have the right to yell.
Both of them are using abusive communication tactics, honestly. He's stonewalling, which is considered to be just as ineffective and harmful in communication as yelling. I feel bad that folks have turned this into being entirely op's fault. Hopefully, they can both get some help working on their mutual communication. Lying about how you really feel for seven years is unacceptable even if your partner is difficult to talk to. Write a letter. Do something to try to communicate so that things can be worked on. I like the comment above that acknowledges the communication challenges both people have and establishing rules of engagement.
Stonewalling done with the intention of ending the conversation on your terms is abusive. Stonewalling as an organic response to being flooded from being yelled at is unhealthy, but it’s not abusive.
Agreed. It’s not abusive, it’s the fight, flight, freeze response. He does need to work on a healthier solution, but I doubt that could be possible unless there is room for him to do so.
That's fair. Unhealthy but not abusive. You could say the same about the yeller, though, right? They are also flooded with emotion and manifesting that emotion in an unhealthy and ineffective way.
I grew up in a family where conflict went straight to yelling, physical aggression, intense silent treatment after, and then rug sweeping. My husband describes his parents as having never raised their voices, never arguing at all, but never showing any kind of affection (they slept in separate beds, didn't hug or kiss, etc.). He swears his parents never had disagreement, but that's obviously not accurate (as a newcomer to the family, I could feel the deep resentment his mother had for his father). Anyhow, my husband and I both need to work on how we manage ourselves when conflict arises. I don't get physically aggressive at all, but my voice and intensity notches up the more frustrated I get. And his stonewalling really gets me, honestly. It's a push/pull dynamic. I hope we can get better. 🤞
I would not say the same about the yeller, no.
Why?
Stonewalling isn’t threatening. Yelling is.
Stonewalling is passive aggression. The other person can feel the threatening "backed into a corner" vibe.
Using the silent treatment is either due to manipulation, which means you have unhealthy communication skills, or doesn’t involve manipulation, which means you have unhealthy communication skills.
These comments are really harsh against OP, because it takes two for things to land where they have.
It’s also important to note that whether manipulation is involved or not, the person on the receiving end will still be impacted the same. This is all a cycle, with one triggering the other; round and round.
The silent treatment can literally make you feel like you are going insane, especially when there is repeated, ‘I don’t know what you mean?!? Everything is fine!’ It’s no surprise someone would react, and pretending like that’s unreasonable is ludicrous!
Yelling is verbal aggression and abusive. Withdrawal (as opposed to stonewalling. which is a manipulation tactic) is a coping strategy.
Doing anything to avoid being yelled at by your partner is completely acceptable.
Doesn’t sound like anyone can share their true feelings with OP without a debate or being told how you’re wrong.
What about doing anything to avoid being shut down, rejected, and lied to by your partner? What choice does she have at that point other than stuffing her feelings down and faking it (as her husband did)? At least she's acknowledging her own ineffective ways of dealing with conflict and actually trying to work on it. Her husband just buried his head in the sand and let shit fall apart while he lied continuously. What work did he do for his marriage?
She only acknowledged it (kinda, in a round about way but not really) when he was honest with her.
She also argues why every single suggestion isnt a good one.
He was trying to keep the peace.
You don’t have to share every single emotion and thought you have, even with your partner.
I've not argued why every suggestion is not a good one. Not in the slightest. There have been many helpful comments of which I have expressed gratitude.
OP does not describe her husband as stonewalling.
Thank you for sharing this. I'm in a similar situation as op, and it's helpful to hear the other side's perspective. Also, establishing rules of engagement is a good idea I will try. 👍
I was reading some of the other comments on this post and some of your comments in particular. I think you're on the right track. I thought I'd share more if it was helpful. Since you and your husband sound similar to my wife and me, it had more of a soft spot for me.
I can really only speak to my wife's and my experience, since I'm obviously not an expert. She came from an abusive home. She has traumas that shaped who she is. I came from a home that was extremely passive aggressive. Also, given the era I grew up, talk of "mental health" or going to see a therapist was viewed as being weak (at least by my family). You powered through no matter the mental anguish. But "powering through" was not the same as being taught how to deal with things in a healthy way.
Men aren't taught how to deal with their emotions very well (as many here are quick to point out). That's true. But women aren't taught how to deal with abusive parents or partners very well, either. So, as shitty as society or households or relationships may be about these things...for my wife and me... it didn't matter who had it worse or who was more to blame... what mattered to us is doing what we had to do in order to build a healthy, loving, safe, and healing marriage.
I don't blame my wife for my reactions or me shutting down all those years. It's not a contest of "winning" who was more right or wrong. She had horrible shit she had to deal with as a child and teenager. That part is not her fault but it shaped who she was. And me understanding that is important.
I had unhealthy stuff in my childhood. Not as traumatic, but, given my personality of being very sensitive... pushing my emotions down and never learning how to deal with them was very unhealthy. (I was suicidal at one point but didn't tell anyone. Not even my wife. I started planning things out and I thought I'd be doing her and my kids a favor.)
The bottom line for my wife and me was: we love each other and we want a healthy marriage. How can we help each other feel safe and loved so that we can help each other heal? That meant looking in the mirror and figuring out what we needed to change about ourselves. It also meant looking at the other person's way of thinking and identifying their pain... and wanting to help them.
When my wife lashes out, now, I really try to put my self in the frame of mind that she's in pain -- not "Why is she taking her shit out on me? This is her problem." I see all of these things as our problem now. I take her aggression far less personally. It doesn't mean I have to be a doormat. And, sometimes I still revert to my "old ways" of shutting down. But, I'm quicker to correct it and refocus on helping her (rather than "fight with her").
My wife has said that physical connection grounds her. When we used to argue, I'd withdraw. Emotionally and physically. I wouldn't put my hand on her leg or shoulder. I wouldn't hug or cuddle with her. It made her feel less loved and communicated to her that I was withholding affection. It made her push more - just trying to see what it would take for me to respond. For me, I was just in survival mode. When we'd argue my stomach would starts doing flip flops (actually, it still does) and physical touch is just not present in my mind. The harder she pushed the more I shut down ...and she'd push more. It was a bad cycle.
But, until we communicated that to each other...we just didn't know. So, we have done our best to not trigger each other and be mindful of how the other person might be perceiving the argument.
I see lots of people getting in a very tit-for-tat debate in this overall post. It's easy to fall in to. But I love my wife more than anything in this world. Once I understood her pain... and she understood mine... and we focused on fixing ourselves so we could help the other person... (rather than convince the other person they were "more wrong")...our marriage transformed. Our love for each other has blossomed and our lives are very different, now. It's not her vs. me. It's us vs. the rest of the world and the shit life throws at us. We're a team.
I wish you and your husband luck. I only shared because your situation sounded so similar. And despite Reddit being Reddit in these types of discussions, I thought I'd try to share something a little more hopeful. 😄
This is actually really helpful:) so many comments on here are dramatic asf so just wanted to give you a kudos for being a good internet person
The same defeat you're feeling now is the same defeat your husband felt when you used his feelings against him all those years ago.
It's one of the biggest reasons men don't open up. When we do it gets used against us.
Preach it.....most women would rather see their husband die, than show any weakness.
He used this (in my opinion, misogynistic) argument as well. I'm not sure I understand what it really means. What does using someone's words/feelings against them actually entail exactly? And I am asking genuinely. To me it seems almost like a cop-out - like the expectation is that you should be able to express a thought or feeling but then not have to deal with your partner's reaction if it is unfavorable? Like if you are pressed or have to answer for any resulting feelings or questions your words incited, this is "using it against you"?
You just did it here. You called someone’s explanation misogynistic because you didn’t like it. You shared your aggressive opinion when someone tried to help you. Go take a look in the mirror. That person that you see is acting like a spoilt kid who didn’t get their way and is now lashing out with their emotions on others. Grow. The. F. Up.
You have already admitted that you get emotional (very vague but typically indicates that the person gets vindictive and emotionally aggressive during an argument) and steamroll him by twisting his words against him. Considering how nobody likes to paint themselves in a bad light, it’s a fairly safe assumption that it’s far worse than that, isn’t it? You’re calling people on the internet misogynistic for talking about a common experience that men have. What’s going to stop you when you’re the one who can control the argument in your own home?
You seem to have a vital misunderstanding that’s going to kill your marriage if you don’t deal with it. The point of an argument is resolve a situation. It’s not a game when someone wins and someone loses. If someone loses an argument in a marriage (friendly arguments about things like whose sports team is better or topics like that aside), then the marriage loses. The way your marriage lost was in the fact that he is no longer safe to share his thoughts and feelings with you because you didn’t respect them. And now you’re surprised he hasn’t opened up to you since? Again, grow up.
When there’s a point of contention in a relationship, you need to find out what both parties want, why they feel the way they do, and what is an acceptable compromise where (ideally) both parties get what they want. Typically there’s a misunderstanding and both parties want something similar and are just going about it in different ways. It takes open communication and emotional safety do this effectively. You will need to leave your ego at the door.
You say you don’t know what using someone’s words or feeling against them means when you literally said that you “often end up using his own words against him”. That’s literally it. Stop doing that. Instead, validate whatever emotion he shares. It’s a real emotion that he didn’t choose to have and he’s fine for having that emotional response, whatever it is. Then you investigate further and ask questions to find out what caused the response and if it is actually a logically founded response or something that he can move past with some clarification around the misunderstanding. Negative experiences can cause a lot of weirdly illogical emotional responses so just be caring, loving, and understanding in this process. You love him and want the best for him more than you love your ego and need to protect it. Remember that.
You absolutely can’t tell him what to feel or whether it’s right or wrong to feel the way he does though. If you hurt his feelings but you feel like he shouldn’t have been hurt by what you said, then you need to back down and realise that, whether you like it or not, you hurt your partner. Own it. Apologise for causing that real pain he feels. Then open the communication about the way you intended it to be taken.
Regarding your confusion about the expectation of being able to express something without then dealing with your partner’s negative reaction: your understanding is correct. You should be able to talk to your partner without them getting aggressively defensive.
If you want your husband to share with you, then you don’t get to blow up at him for expressing a thought or feeling. You do get to have a safe, peaceful, no-name-calling discussion about it where you treat his emotions as though they are totally valid. His emotions or thoughts might not be based in logic and you can, lovingly, talk to him about that, but you don’t get to “press” him for the answers you want. Obviously we don’t know what the context here is but we’re assuming your husband hasn’t said something psychotic here.
Why does him sharing his thoughts with you invite negative responses? If it’s actually something messed up, get out of there. If it isn’t, then communicate about it. Get curious. Make it a safe discussion for you both to share your feelings and thoughts. Learn about each other.
Your husband, ideally, should have called you out for your behaviour the first time you twisted his words or feelings against him. However, he is human and didn’t do that. It’s very hard to do that with someone you love as it typically opens up more vulnerability in doing so and you just hurt his feelings already. This is a typical experience for guys but women experience it too. You now need to undo that first experience and all subsequent experiences that he has had where you have made him feel unsafe. Apologise. Make amends to really demonstrate that you want him to be safe with you. And then, most importantly: never do it again. Go see a therapist if you need help with any of it but especially the last part.
Thank you for that. You are an excellent communicator. Thank you for explaining that to her, and to everybody else, myself included.
You’re welcome. :-) Have a good one, mate!
Damn the first part of your comment felt very personal and unnecessarily mean. A lot of incorrect assumptions. But I do appreciate you actually breaking down the mechanics of a healthy conflict conversation- What is and isn't acceptable, and how to react in ways that will be productive rather than harmful. It's not something I learned growing up or had modeled, so it's something I will need to actively figure out and practice.
You and your husband need to get to marriage therapy. Like, yesterday. Such a breakdown in communication will kill a marriage. And I’m not blaming you here—you came to this thread with what seems like a sincere desire to want to make things better. A therapist will be able to help you both with this.
OP please save and re-read the above comment, over-and-over-and-over until you can finally see your responsibility in where your marriage has landed. It IS a personal comment, but not mean. These are facts being laid based on what you posted and the context you laid out. You are not a victim here, you ARE the culprit.
Get counseling.... For YOU! and if he's willing, as a couple once you are able to take responsibility and make amends for your part.
I truly wish you all the best, your children are counting on you.
I hear what you are saying and I'm not even trying to say you are wrong, but damn, the way some of you feel qualified to make these confident, sweeping accusations based on a few paragraphs-long snippet of two whole ass lives is a bit much.
I read through your past posts...pot calling the kettle black?
We’re going off what you described to us
You asked for feedback based on the information you provided. You described a situation where your husband, till death do you part, doesn’t feel safe being vulnerable with you due to how you behave. Your response is to not take responsibility for your behaviour, “(I) can’t help that my voice and tone becomes increasingly upset”, and you are talking about the end of the relationship is inevitable. Furthermore, you then responded to someone who was explaining the defeated feeling to you with an accusation of being misogynistic.
Yes, my comment was intended to be blunt. No, it wasn’t intended to be mean or more personal than the subject we are discussing: your marriage and the fact that your husband isn’t emotionally safe. Yes, you are understanding some of the impact of your words but the way you were handling uncomfortable truths was demonstrating exactly the behaviour that shuts down open communication.
Your marriage is at red alert status right now and my comment was trying to get you to realise that to save your marriage, you have to make it emotionally safe for him. That’s your responsibility now. Go let him know you heard what he said in that he isn’t safe with you and that you are sorry and are going to take xyz steps to try and fix this now. Then do those steps. Go see a therapist. Control your emotional responses and know when to pause a conversation. Be vulnerable.
You are human. You’ve made a mistake. It’s okay. Go apologise, take full ownership of it, and fix it. You have the option of a wonderful future as a family ahead of you. Go seize it and leave any ego behind.
I’m just a stranger on the internet you can ignore. What your husband hasn’t shared with you is going to feel far more personal than anything I could imagine. Don’t tell him he’s being mean or vindictive if he’s being honest. Get the feedback, and it will be hard to hear, and go take it to a therapist to work through together. Let the therapist help you to have a productive conversation from that feedback. They’ll tell you if he is being mean and you can, calmly, address that. Your feelings matter too. They’ve just had an unfair share of the airtime in your marriage so far.
And it is hard when you haven’t seen a healthy relationship. All I have said has come from years of personal development and therapists after growing up in an unhealthy home. You can learn and grow and change. The future isn’t all dark. Go make it a good one, just leave the ego behind! It’s not making you look any better in these comments and I wonder if I haven’t been blunt enough. Your marriage won’t survive unless you put his feelings above yours for a while until you balance things out. Making amends isn’t fun, but it’s worth it for your marriage and family, isn’t it?
You need to appreciate your husband who really loves you a lot. Because I wouldn't tolerate your bullshit for a year. Let alone seven.
OK, here's an example:
Him: "I feel like you are too critical of me when you're upset"
You: "I'm just telling you how I feel! You filter almost everything I say through your overactive blame- detection screen and you auto-react defensively to everything."
You'll probably say you don't actually say that to him - but you don't have to. You feel it, which means you've communicated it to him in some other way even if you haven't explicitly said it.
You just reinforced my original comment.
Also, just because you don't like the reality doesn't make it misogynistic.
If this is how you are every time he shares a thought, feeling or opinion, I can see why he doesn’t share.
Be careful with labels. My wife got on the you’re a misogynist kick and after repeatedly telling her how utterly disrespected I felt she was being by diagnosing and labeling me that i told her I’m done and want a divorce. She was stunned. I was not joking. She didn’t focus on a statement or behaviors she labeled. I’m not sure you will be able to understand the difference, but it’s huge.
This will be unpopular on Reddit, but marriage is not supposed to be “a lot of conflict and long hard conversations” over half the entire time you’ve even been together.
Do couples go through rough patches? Yes. Are those rough patches supposed to take up 50+% of the entire relationship? No.
I’m sorry, but you may not even be compatible. I’m not as quick to dump sole blame on you, OP, as others here are. I don’t think it’s about sole blame. I almost don’t even think “blame” matters at this point.
Healthy marriages can be work, yes, but they’re not meant to be long, gruelling slogs. You’re not meant to be constantly putting out fires, frantically sewing patches in an ever-fraying quilt, or trying to learn how to even talk to one another.
If you’ve been unhappy together as often or more often than you’ve been happy, if there are more “long, hard conversations” and “conflicts” than effortlessly joyful times, then this marriage probably isn’t good for either of you.
I love this.
Sometimes you just have to let it go, say ok and move on with things.
Thank you! And I agree. Some relationships just don’t work out in the end, and that’s okay. What’s most important is knowing when it’s time to part, because you’re both just miserable and it’s not getting better.
I’m not advising OP, specifically, to divorce! But it’s something she should think about, especially if she’s at a point where she feels that communication in this marriage is “fundamentally incapable” of happening.
Their kids are important in this, too. It’s not good to grow up seeing your parents miserable and tense and angry, unable to even talk productively without it backsliding into a mess.
My wife and I are identical to you and your husband. I normally bite my tongue and or say what she wants to hear. I've come to realize that she's not great at rethinking her position, understanding mine or compromising between the two. She's also not great at realizing she's going over the top in arguments and able to climb back down the ladder. Usually she only sweetens up when I realize it's going nowhere and I stop arguing.
We've started to go to marriage counseling so I think this is where I'll lay it all out. I love my wife with all my heart, she's just not great at retrospection. I think if you take what your husband told you to heart and GENUINELY work on communication skills... You'll be fine. It's the lack of working towards bettering your relationship which will ultimately end it.
It sounds like she needs to go to a counselor and when she learns to communicate safely then the both of them go to a marriage counselor together.
He is also not communicating safely. Stonewalling and lying is not safe or effective, either. Certainly withholding your true feelings for seven years as things break down around you, then suddenly spurting out the truth, is also very damaging. They both need help working on their communication. ✌️
So true!!!
Oh I'm not worried for my safety, I'm twice her size and I'm capable of de-escalation. She does need to get back to individual counseling though
Reading your comments…yeah I understand how your husband feels. You attack people in every single reply. You find some way to deflect and make it seem like the replies are being mean to you, are misogynistic, etc. why even post here if you can’t handle people taking your husband’s side?
So you are upset that he hasn’t felt free to speak freely without making you upset? Make it make sense.
Try using some communication tools.
Mirroring: give him room to say his thing, but you are only allowed to repeat back to him what he is telling you. Nothing more.
“I feel”. Try expressing things in the first person, without assigning blame on the other person. For example “when you do this, I feel such and such”.
You can read up on this, but basically you (specifically) need to start handling discussions like it’s the both of you VS the problem, instead of you VS him.
All it takes is one time, a man be my ridiculed, chastised, made fun of, or being dismissive of his feelings when he does share them. And he won’t share them ever again.
We are always taught or influenced, pressured to hide or suppress our feelings. So for some takes a lot to open up, and when we do and then get negative response. Yea… never gonna happen again.
Maybe that "one time" happened before they met and she never stood a chance.
Nah its one time per person for me.
Are you her husband?
I'll be honest - the fact that you are upset and bothered about this is evidence that you haven't grown enough to be the partner he needs.
Is it constructive for your spouse to have been placating you for years? No. Is it a "betrayal?" Of course not. He didn't do anything "wrong" - he coped with the discomfort and (I'll say it) abuse you've dealt him.
When you are ready to look inside yourself, look back, and look at your husband and say, "wow, I'm really sorry I did that. I will try to be better," there might be hope, provided your husband hasn't completely given up.
I was in this situation. I've since stopped "holding back", and the marriage is collapsing because of it. Ten years ago, that collapse would have meant the end of of my world (which was part of why I avoided it). Today, it's validation that my wife is more concerned with herself than she ever has been with me.
OR, maybe if you would have found a way to speak up, the problems could have been worked on and you and your wife could have developed better communication instead of letting it all fall apart around you and then scapegoating her for all the problems. I can't help but think every woman you've been with has been a "crazy bitch," and you've just been the sweet, innocent guy who somehow only attracts "crazy bitches." 🤷♀️
When someone admits to being "emotional" during arguments, using their partners words against them, steamrolling over them, and generally considers themselves "better with words" - you're not dealing with a partner acting in good faith; this is someone who insists on being right, regardless of the harm it causes their partner. This isn't about someone being too timid or "conflict avoidant" to stand up for themselves - this is someone who is coping with genuine verbal abuse in the least destructive way they can. Combined with the way OP has taken on the role of "victim" here, it is clear her husband is has spent 14 years playing a game he was destined to lose.
This is OPs fault, and her only move is to take responsibility for how she's put her husband in an impossible situation. Blaming her husband for this situation is counterproductive and unsupported by the facts she has provided.
You do not lie your face off for seven years and get to play victim when everything falls apart. If she was an ornery bitch, he had the opportunity to address that and leave if it didn't get better. Instead, he chose to stay under false pretenses. That is the typical passive, conflict avoidant person who makes themself the victim in every relationship because they refuse to see their part in conflict.
When prevailing wisdom tells you to listen to your partner and take them seriously, and your partner effectively to stop arguing with them, you are stuck with a choice - shut up and try to make the relationship work, or leave. OPs husband choose to give OP what she demanded. Its disingenuous to say he "lied" or that he stayed under "false pretenses" - he simply held his beliefs and opinions to himself because he was punished by someone he trusted for expressing them.
OP abused him into compliance. Had she not, he might have left by now. Choosing to go along to get along after being brow-beaten into agreement isn't his failure, though. To the degree that there is a victim here, its him.
You are emotionally flooding him so he shuts down. This is entirely on you. You need to take full responsibility if you want to actually move forward.
It is not entirely on her! Have you considered how he is emotionally flooding her with his stonewalling and conflict avoidance? Lying to her face for seven years? I'm shocked by the responses here. They BOTH clearly need to work on their communication. Being a passive, conflict avoidant, emotionally unavailable man brings its own challenges to any relationship.
It does, assuming he didn’t try and was shut down over and over and just gave up. Usually the woman is in that situation being intimidated by the guys anger issues. In those cases it is entirely him. Considering her defensiveness in this thread I am not sure I quite agree with you.
To be fair, every comment insisted that she was the sole source of the problems. I can understand her defensiveness.
Whoa whoa whoa-Stop!
He married you knowing you are an asshole at times. He knew what he was getting into.
Now you know that you’re such an asshole, he has practiced avoidance rather than to engage with you.
I was an asshole for years also. My wife was ready to end the marriage if I didn’t change.
So I went to individual therapy for every 3 weeks for a year to work on anger, irritations and empathy. I picked up techniques to release the anger before blowing up over something small. Sound familiar?
This can be fixed. Find yourself an individual counselors and tell them what you want to work on. You’re not there to bitch and complain, you are there to work on these issues that are impacting your marriage.
Next, start every day with a cup of coffee with your spouses. No interruptions just the two of you keeping things lite and starting the day on a positive note together. Let him talk, don’t criticize or dictate a fix to a problem he may not thinks exists.
I know I’m being harsh but based on your post , we are very similar if not dam near identical.
This is the way to reconnect as I’ve lived it.
Thank you. I've always been pretty sure it was me who was the real problem, but it definitely helps to get confirmation from the outside. I appreciate your help.
Mine did the same because he thought I was a BIG NAG and he hated me, he wanted to see other people run away, when in reality I just wanted him to watch the kids for 10 minutes so I could shower
The more I think about it, the more unhinged I think this post is.
You admit to being a hard person to deal with. And when your husband finally does share his true feeling, you smash him for it. No wonder he held back for so long. The fact that you are considering separation because he’s spent 14 years trying to make you happy is wild.
I'm not considering separation. I said I know enough to know that this isn't sustainable. You can't just bottle up your feelings to placate someone forever. Eventually he'll reach a breaking point and leave.
Thats where I am at right now. My wife steamrolls me and uses things I say against me. I am literally on another tab looking up divorce information when I am not googling my relationship issue only to find this fucking post. You have no idea how bad he is hurt. I am literally going silent treatment on my wife right now for a giant slew of texts I got from her about how I am so wrong with my blame of her when it was the first time I told her about the problem in years. Mostly because last time she blew up on me. You cant blame a dog for not wanting to eat food out of a hand that smacks him. You are manipulative for turning his words against him...., and I am taking my anger towards my spouse out on you.... Thats not fair. I wish you good luck.
I
I think he’s sharing with you because he is activating his exit plan.
You have unreasonable expectations. No man in America would be married if he told his wife what he thought all the time.
Sounds like you have made it to where he doesn't feel safe telling you the truth because you turn his own words against him and yell and Beret him. You need to take a step back and think about that.
I would suggest seriously doing marriage counseling to try to make it so he feels safe again to bring things up with you and you don't bring him down and berate him for doing so.
So, you imagine that if op just lets him be, he will approach her when he has feelings and try to communicate and work things out, eh? That's not what I'm getting from this at all.
Based on the post and your replies to comments, it seems like you view interactions from a very confrontational place. You come across pretty defensive and it seems like you take what you receive from others personally and deeply.
When he shared his views, were you argumentative or were you curious and empathetic?
I think the following quote says a lot about this situation.
I feel defeated that he's chosen to hide his feelings from me out of desire to avoid conflict instead of giving us a chance to address them and work through them. I can't understand what he though the long-term outcome of that was going to be?
Let's rewrite it from his perspective: I feel defeated that she's chosen to steamroll me, blow up easily, get angry, and overpower me during discussions to get her way instead of being kind and empathetic to me so we can address and work through our problems. I can't understand what she thought the long-term outcome would be?
Wait...are all men just massive babies? Is this why male/male relationships are stereotypically thought of as superficial? All of the blame is being placed on this woman for being emotional but also...men need to realize that this same behavior that sends them to cower in a corner creates deeper connections between women. When we have a problem with our female friends we both/all express our honest feelings, cry, meet somewhere in the middle, and hug it out. After that, the connection is stronger. Y'all are really out there petrified.
All of the blame is being placed on this woman for being emotional
I only selected words she used to describe herself. I'm not blaming her.
men need to realize that this same behavior that sends them to cower in a corner creates deeper connections between women.
What behaviors of hers did she describe that creates deeper connections between women?
When we have a problem with our female friends we both/all express our honest feelings, cry, meet somewhere in the middle, and hug it out.
She literally describes herself as doing the opposite of this.
Y'all are really out there petrified.
A lot of men are, yeah. And a lot of men need to get over themselves and are too sensitive. A lot of men could and should learn a lot from a lot of women.
Wait...are all men just massive babies?
Some are, yeah. What did I say to prompt this? I mean, I'm suggesting empathy and understanding for him in my post as a first step to moving forward and it moved to men being babies? Alrighty.
95% of what you've said in response makes me believe that we'd mostly agree on this topic. You have an especially evolved mindset when I compare it to all of the women-bashing that I see throughout social media.
"Steamrolling" doesn't just happen. What happens is that she said something quite normal, probably many years ago, and he interpreted it as an attack and this dynamic between them began. That same thing that she said to him, if she had said it to a female friend, would almost certainly have just been met with the same energy and it would have been worked out. Men and women communicate differently and it is not helpful to expect women to view emotion as bad and stoicism as ideal when there are so many areas of life where the emotion is the exact thing that is needed.
I have always thought of men as babies in a positive way (coming home for nurturing after a day at work or at play) but these gender wars try to paint men as something so entirely different that I think even men don't realize how much they need the thing that they villainize women for.
You have an especially evolved mindset when I compare it to all of the women-bashing that I see throughout social media.
Thanks. And agree, social media bashing of women is absolutely over the top. I'd also suggest that men are also being detrimentally bashed as well, although admittedly men don't have the patriarchal suppression that women have and have had (though men are also harmed by patriarchy).
"Steamrolling" doesn't just happen. What happens is that she said something quite normal, probably many years ago, and he interpreted it as an attack and this dynamic between them began. That same thing that she said to him, if she had said it to a female friend, would almost certainly have just been met with the same energy and it would have been worked out. Men and women communicate differently and it is not helpful to expect women to view emotion as bad and stoicism as ideal when there are so many areas of life where the emotion is the exact thing that is needed.
I think this paragraph sums up so much of this. To me, the challenge is recognizing that resolving this dynamic, for better or worse, requires empathy and understanding. She needs to realize that how she argues seems to trigger him into shutting down. That's on him to work on, but she also hopefully can take responsibility and make changes so that he can feel safe to express himself (even if the reason they got to this point is him) so that they can move toward connection. He needs to realize that avoiding conflict because things are uncomfortable doesn't get anywhere and the only way forward is figuring out how to make it through those uncomfortable feelings. If they both take their roles here seriously they can reach a middle ground and understanding.
Tbh, this sounds like an anxiously attached and accidentally attached partnership, whether they developed those attachment styles inside of or before their relationship, idk, but thats what it seems to me.
I have always thought of men as babies in a positive way (coming home for nurturing after a day at work or at play) but these gender wars try to paint men as something so entirely different that I think even men don't realize how much they need the thing that they villainize women for.
Oh my goodness, just yes to this.
Honestly, this short interaction with you has restored my faith that there are men out there that see what's going on. So thank you for taking the time.
And I definitely think op and her husband should start by looking at their attachment styles. That alone could give them the beginning of a template for how to not trigger each other into oblivion for every single conflict.
Seriously! I tell my husband he chose to commit himself to a woman. If he wants to just have some beers and move on, he should find a homie to be his life partner 😆
You use the words defeated a lot, and I think that's really apt because I think you view these arguments as a win or lose situation. And you thought you'd been winning all this time, but actually he wasn't even involved in your argument you were winning stuff that didn't matter and so now you feel like you actually lost all these years so now you feel like you were defeated in a battle that didn't even exist.
Reading thru your comments and posts…. Can’t believe he hasn’t left yet. You don’t respect him or really care for him at all…
I am a man, 59, trying to talk my spouse into a friendly divorce that does not financially devastate me. Why now? Because I knew I could never support two households and still pay for my baby to finish college with no student loan debt. Mine had zero interest in earning ANY money, EVER, despite being a CPA. My baby finished in May, got a job in her field in June and now I want OUT.
Whenever I did tell mine my true feelings she kinda belittled me, told me I was crazy, told me I needed Electro-Shock therapy, etc. In order to see watch my baby grow up I had to live for ages and ages exactly the way your husband is living now.
THERAPY! GO TO THERAPY!
I begged mine to go for years and years. She would not, so I went alone.
It is not too late for you guys. Go to therapy.
Go to a Gottman Trained Marriage Therapist. There is still hope for you guys.
Thanks. Yeah, I'm certain he would do anything to ensure he doesn't miss out on any time with the kids, including lie and hide his plans to leave after they are grown. As would I, to be honest. I wouldn't be shocked if that's in his mind. It's devastating. Makes me extremely sad to think that he might be living like that. I've learned here that I'm apparently a really awful person. I knew I had work to do but I didn't realize I was a monster.
You both play a part in this, it’s not you evil bossy woman and he is poor innocent guy.
He also has work to do, he took it for years without standing up snapping or leaving he has his part to work on.
And if he did leave and didn’t do his own work he would find someone else similar
But judging from this post, he is a poor, innocent, unhealthy, emotionally-abused man. Other than intentionally walking in front of a cannon (e.g., being honest with his wife about his feelings and suffering her wrath) or leaving her outright, what should he have done differently?
Either of those two. Assuming there was not some unusual imbalance in the relationship he was not at risk of being physically harmed or dependent on his wife.
If he was healthy and could not express an opinion without receiving a barrage he would have left years ago. He needs to understand why he didn’t do that and solve that part for him self.
And in that many years earlier he would have told her stop or I leave and then left.
The risk of physical harm is irrelevant. The risk of emotional harm is just as important. OP was emotionally harming her husband, and he accepted it.
As I said - he was (emotionally) unhealthy, both before but especially because of OPs treatment. For his sake, I would advise he seek treatment and help resolve that so he can find a partner who won't abuse him won't stay with one who does no matter how manipulative they might be.
His failure to leave this situation does not put any of the blame on him, though - that is entirely on OP.
If your take-away is that you are an "awful person" and a "monster," you're liable to perpetuate this problem. Nobody here is saying you are a monster - but a lot of people are suggesting that you consider - really consider - this from your husband's point of view. Don't be "devastated" by it. Don't be worried if he's planning on leaving. Don't make it about how horrible you are or how it's going to make you feel. This isn't black and white - your husband has reacting in an unhealthy but understandable way to your behavior. You can move forward, but it's going to take a degree of self-reflection that - even in your most self-aware comments here - you don't seem to have done yet
"I guess I'm just some monster" and "Now I know what you really think of me".
Two quotes from my husband when I finally had the courage to tell him his angry, yelling, swearing, steamrolling, sledgehammer behaviour in our conflicts was actually abuse. And I love him, and he's a wonderful person who I have tremendous care and tenderness for. But in conflict, for years, I mean FOR YEARS I have edited myself to the extent that I do not tell him what I think and feel about very much of anything anymore, actually. It's fucking sad, because I love him so much, but there simply is no room in this for me. And I can't allow my world to shrink to just the size of him and me.
The poster that you're responding to has a great perspective and excellent advice...but also remember that you're getting a lot of other responses from emotionally stunted men who are cowards in their own relationships and taking it out on you. You're on the right track because you're looking for help.
Recognizing your own fault is huge. There are a lot of videos on YouTube that describe and explain negative patterns of behavior (ie attachment styles) and sometimes just seeing yourself (and your partner) in their explanations can help turn things around. Spend some time looking for patterns that fit for you (this might only take 30 mins) then go to your husband with an apology and an open heart to ask for forgiveness and a partner to move forward. It's not just you that is the problem but you only have control of yourself. You will never regret working on yourself and hopefully he's willing to walk with you.
You sound like my wife
I feel totally defeated by this and I don't know what to do next
It probably doesn't compare to how defeated he feels. I'll probably divorce than be beaten down the rest of my life.
Didn't have to read past your first paragraph to see that 14 years ago he expressed his real feelings during an argument. Most likely your first or second one. During which you blew up, got angry, and overpowered him. It doesn't take a psychologist to know he immediately shut down and thought "Welp, not gonna do that again! I suppose to keep the peace I'll just try to placate her." This is how men think.
I say drop it & both look into therapy.
He said that in one argument Doesn’t make it true
We are living the same situation girl
Well, he is being honest with you now. Don’t blow up on him.
Respond positively to his honesty. I read some of these posts and wonder how people have honest marriages. I tell my husband exactly how I feel even if it is uncomfortable
You sound like my wife lol, I am seeing a therapist and working on being more assertive and have had several uncomfortable conversations with her but I’m getting more comfortable speaking up which it what I believe your husband needs to do; you posted it here at least you acknowledge that and this is a great first step
I’ve lived in marriage very much like this for quite some time. The persistent disconnect is that I primarily want to argue or talk things through in order to reach practical resolution or sustained change in behavior. My lovely wife tends to argue or talk through things to feel understood and seen. I’m guilty of resorting to anger and resentment to my perceived lack of commitment to follow through. She is guilty of feeling the catharsis of getting her feelings out and returning to the same behaviors that trigger me. Unfortunately, this has created a counter productive cycle many times.
Currently I recognize more fully than ever that I can only control my behaviors and moods. I’m working to identify anger and utilize better strategize to contend with it before it devolves into deeper resentment.
I’m hopeful my wife will reciprocate with changed behavior patterns, but I also am learning to accept that she may not and this is likely. I’m not in moment where I feel a choice to label her behavior as a nuisance or intolerable. This choice is new to me and I am working through it.
My only advice to you would be to put yourself in his shoes and imagine how hopeless your husband feels in interacting with you about certain topics and making a conscious choice to do something about it that may require significant investment in reshaping your view of self or continuing down your current path. Both are options with their own pros and cons.
I often recall this thought in my own moments. “I can’t be who I am and who I need to be to do the things I really want to do. Am I willing to die to myself in order to elevate?”
Unpopular opinion…
From his response it doesn’t sound like he’s placating you- it sounds like he’s defensive and it’s escalating your emotions during arguments.
Sure, you’re responsible for your own words and actions, but when you bring something to your husband’s attention, if he downplays your feelings or turns it around on you immediately- that isn’t placating you. Even if his tone and demeanor or softer and he isn’t as good with words.
This whole post sounds like he’s manipulating you into thinking your intelligence and debate prowess makes you a monster and he’s an innocent victim. I would rethink this through.
Look up attachment styles and learn more about them. It helped me tremendously and opened my eyes. My partners DA tendencies pushed me to be the worst version of myself. Good luck
Your poor husband. I hope he manages to escape this prison you’ve trapped him in… unless you change your ways for the better, of course
OP I’m going to be honest here — you sound like a lot. I wouldn’t want to argue with you either, if you’re going to yell and steamroll and box me in. It sounds like your husband dissembles, which kind of annoying, but damn, he must feel like he’s desperate for the argument to just end and he’s willing to say anything to make that happen. You need to look at your own behaviour and consider some fundamental behavioural changes if you want the marriage to work. Assuming it’s not already too late. Reel it in, check yourself. You’re too much.
Holy shit! Are we married? Because this could almost be me as the husband. I VERY rarely let my real feelings be known for the same reasons. Also, my family, growing up, was very much about keeping the peace at all costs. Conditioning like that is hard to break. Also, the few times I did open up, I was either ignored, gaslit, or made her pissed off. So I just keep my mouth shut.
Is he conflict avoidant in other areas too? Or just at home? If this is something he does with everyone (family, friends, work) then this isn’t just a you thing.
You both need to learn skills communicating. Therapy could help both of you.
In all areas
Unreliable narrator.
This isn’t just you then. I see you’re getting beat up by the guys here but this is him being conflict avoidant and not communicating just as much as it is you being hard to argue with.
He also needs to learn how to deal with conflict better
He needs to find a partner who doesn't abuse him. I suspect his "conflict avoidance" would disappear pretty much immediately.
I don’t have advice as I’m now one year out of my marriage but my ex husband and I had a similar dynamic and I really empathize with what you are experiencing. My ex was extremely passive aggressive and avoidant. Even a mild disagreement was enough to make him shut down. It’s great that you are able to identify the ways in which you contributed to the unhealthy dynamic between the two of you, as well as areas for personal growth. However, ‘placating’ you for nearly a decade reflects a level of emotional detachment and immaturity that you couldn’t have possibly created. I can tell you that for my part, well before the marriage ended, I went to therapy and did a lot of work on myself as well as trying to take responsibility for the dynamic he and I had but it didn’t matter. For example, my ex and I agreed to take some space when a fight was boiling over to calm down and collect our thoughts. Since my ex was the one that needed that space, he was supposed to let me know when he was ready to talk things through. But he would never come back to finish the conversation and if I asked him about it he would get angry with me. Putting so much effort into fixing things on my own for many years took a huge toll on my well-being. Eventually he admitted that he wasn’t going to work on fixing the marriage and I’ve had a lot of work to do to pick up the pieces of my life. I say this mostly as a warning that taking on the blame and the burden of saving the marriage can be so damaging. Make sure you hold him accountable as well. The way he has acted in the relationship is not normal, healthy, or your fault.
I totally agree. There are a lot of male responses that are so thrilled to 100% blame the poster when she's so clearly one-sidedly trying to save her marriage.
You don't have to be an "emotionally stunted male" to see that, while both have responsibility for where there marriage is right now. OP carries all of blame. She isn't trying to fix the marriage - she is trying to keep the marriage, which involves blaming her husband for being too weak to stand up to her abuse.
This is the biggest reason why I don't believe in the saying "Happy Wife, Happy Life" because even when the wife needs and wants are put before the husband's, it always comes to bite them in the a**. For some men, this makes them grow resentment and be distant from their wives. A marriage is between two people and in order for it to work, both partners need to look out for one another.
If you truly want this to work, both of you need to have a heart to heart conversation and have an open mind while doing so. When either of you feel like your anger is starting to get intense then ask for a break but don't allow it to take over. Look for either in person, online, chat or video counseling for couples and individual therapy. Let him know you are willing to work on you but that you also want him to work on himself.
I grew up with a mother like you....she and my stepdad still are like this at 79 years of age. I grew up with several goals.
To have a peaceful marriage and family.
To have a wife that wasn't a bat-sh!t, raging, screaming whackadoodle.
At 59 years old, I avoid my mother at all costs.
Here is a truth, based upon your original posting and subsequent replies. You are an abusive person to AT LEAST your husband. I can guarantee these behaviors have traumatized your children.
You need to take accountability for your own abusive behaviors and the resulting damage to your marriage, husband, and children. You have a choice....seek healing for yourself, your marriage and the damage caused. My guess is that you grew up in a similarly abusive family dynamic....all too common in abusers.
I am a real human being, who has made a post on a marriage advice forum, admitting that I have unhealthy conflict behaviours, taking responsibility for the hostile environment I realize this has created in my marriage, and seeking perspective and advice for how to heal the situation and save my marriage. And you feel justified to declare that I abuse my family, traumatize my children and come from a family of abusers? Fortunately I have enough mental fortitude to not allow such outlandish and serious accusations from a stranger on the internet warp my reality, but you should honestly consider toning it down a notch.
That is a really strong accusation.
Your life......your choices. .. your consequences
You should have argument debriefs, where you approach each other with prepared thoughts after everything has cooled off.
we were making progress towards understanding each other better with every conflict
This is like managing your health through ER visits; you can only make so much progress in high pressure situations. You need post emergency follow-ups and regular doctor visits to make real progress.
My husband does this sometimes, but I know when he's doing it. I tell him to let me have it because even if it makes me mad in the moment, we can try to understand each other's point of view. We are really good communicators, but there are definitely times we can't come to an agreement. Making "I feel" statements instead of "you" statements helps, and if you're just in a snippy mood and taking it out on him, it's better to lead with an apology acknowledging that you're frustrated/it isn't personal.
We are in the middle of potty training our toddler, and I'm the one dealing with it most of the day. I've been irritable because I have to suppress my frustration when my toddler acts like a little troll, so my husband is getting the worst version of me every now and then when I've had a really tough day. It helps if he knows I don't have patience and that I am having a difficult time being positive.
You're only human. Just allow yourself to be open minded. Don't let fights become hurtful. If you're mad about something, find a way to say it that isn't attacking him. If you need to have a conversation about something that's bothering you, allow both parties to cool off before talking. Just some basics. You shouldn't be sparring with your husband over trivial shit (assuming just the usual martial spats are happening). And if there is something your husband is not doing to be all-in as a spouse/parent, and that's why you're fighting with him, then you both should discuss expectations.
The problem when dealing with a type of man who ISN'T good at communicating is that he's the toddler in your scenario. You're very lucky to have a proficient communicator. The toddler type leaves a wife with no outlet and she has no choice but to turn all of the negative feelings inwardly on herself. It's a nightmare longterm.
I don't disagree with you, but I specifically commented this to OP because in the circumstance she described, it seems her husband is guarding his true feelings because of the way she would react to them. I think in the OP's scenario, she could have healthy communication with her husband if she promotes it respectfully. There is a reason he is placating her. If she can make some changes in how she handles conflicts, he'd open up. He doesn't want to open up because she said (in more words) that she is argumentative.
In theory I get what you're saying, in reality...if this pattern of retreat started before he met her, she can't fix it by talking gently to him. If he doesn't work on it from its root, he'll observe her desperation and use it to manipulate her. I do think that what you said is her first step to show her openness to change but it's not the thing that will make him "feel" safe. If it's dependent on her alone, she'll spend the rest of their marriage suppressing her feelings to match his energy - because he could feel safe today...then next week...but at some point he'll retreat back to what he ever was.
Plus...he probably chose her to work through this. This was a subconscious desire but he is, instead, trying to kill the thing in her that drew him to her in the first place.
That's casting a wider net.
I would highly recommend individual counseling for both of you to learn how to efficiently communicate your wants or needs constructively. Then marriage counseling to learn to communicate together. Remembering each issue is an us vs the world thing. Not an you vs me thing.
If you can't afford the individual , at least go to marriage counseling to learn how to communicate without the barrage of attacks and him without being defensive.
I totally agree. And most times it takes going to more than one therapist before getting to the one who sees you both and can help save the marriage.
Do you have adhd or anything like that, maybe?
Get to counseling together asap! Remember, it is rarely ever the fault of one individual when conflict occurs. One person may be tipping the scales more than the other, but no one is completely blameless. You have the potential to work on your relationship but you have to do it together, and in cases like this, probably also in your own individual therapy.
Look into the “turtle and the hailstorm”, theory. It sounds like this is your interaction pattern. You won’t solve everything, possibly you won’t solve anything, but this may help you understand a little of what is happening in your fights with your partner.
Good luck finding a good couples therapist.
Teal Swan also has some wonderful videos on her YouTube channel about what men and women need to feel safe with each other that might be helpful too. I know they have helped me learn to better navigate myself and my marriage. BTW, learning to navigate and healthfully express myself and my own thoughts and feelings has been the biggest challenge in my marriage.
I feel bad for your husband.
Ur husband was nevera great comminicator of emotions and has now got used to boxing his emotions up for too long. It will be very hard to trust you and open up with you again.
Clearly, you both will need an intermediary or councellor for sure. But it has to be someone your husband can trust.
Also it will need both of you to be in the same place in marriage. Right now, i doubt that's the case. U will have to give your husband space & time to gain confidence on your genuineness on willing to salvage this. Are u willing to do that?
I think you need to ask your husband what he wants to do: stay or split. He's at his breaking point.
The manipulation, gaslighting and steamrolling is not acceptable. You need therapy now.
I mean this super kindly.
He’s been placating you because it seems you might be impossible to share his truth with…and he, for whatever reason, has had enough. Or he wants it to change.
There is a way through this. And a lot of it is JUST letting it go. Coming to a common middle ground and moving forward. Not looking back.
Why would you hold onto this? Why couldn’t you say “I’m really sorry.I want to figure this out together.”?
Instead you are making it a whole other thing.
You know how to fix it. You even know how to TRY to not do the things that you do. So you’re conscious of the problems.
This makes me feel really sorry for him. He must feel so incredibly lonely. Your partner HAS to be the one safe place for you. You should want him to share anything with you and not use it as ammunition. You know how to do this.
But also, therapy. Maybe for both of you. Together and separate.
I’d be worried he is looking for a way out.
Maybe instead of focusing on him just keeping his feeling quiet, you should get some therapy for you on how to better communicate without over powing him
If you don't change, you're going to find yourself along and getting divorced.
I am trying to imagine what his post would read like. And if he has mentioned any of this to friends and family. Because, if he was my brother or son, I would be advising him to leave this abusive wife of his.
Get some marriage counseling, or is that unavailable as well. But I have to ask, if you are constantly arguing, what is worth saving.
Yo. Also in current news: Water is Wet.
I think Bill Burr summed it up fairly well...
90% of men do this.
That’s marriage for us.
Look at Reddit, women says husband gained weight the comments are entirely different when the man says that.
Women has low libido they blame the man. Whether it be sexual attraction or household duties it is his fault.
Man has low libido and they blame the man’s hormone levels.
This is life for us and I am always surprised that women are so surprised when this comes to light.
Be careful about taking advice from people on here, especially other men. It sounds to me as if your husband is a coward and has found a very new way of getting you back for trying to get your needs met.
For example: suppose he told you that he has been lying to you for 12 years and you look back over 12 years and feel ashamed that you believed 12 years of lies. What you're now ignoring is that if he can lie for 12 years, he can also lie just that one time by telling you that he has been lying for 12 years.
He is telling you that he just went along with your "steamrolling" to make you feel shame and like you're 100% of the problem.
What it sounds like to me is that he is a coward. It is extremely common for men to not have developed the emotional language/intelligence to participate in a reciprocal relationship with a woman. This is what makes you feel aggressive, because he's scared and cowering and passive; you make him look more passive and he makes you look more aggressive. This does NOT mean that you have the same effect on other people ie. your children.
Believe it or not, the solution is somewhere in the middle. If you give in to the narrative that he wants you to believe, you'll eventually become an emotional wreck and shell of a person.
You are victim blaming, pure and simple. I wouldn't tell someone who is being physically abused that they bear some responsibility for not "standing up" to their abuser or "just leaving," and I'm not going to blame OPs husband for withdrawing in the face of emotional abuse.
Her husband felt unsafe being honest because OP intentionally manipulated him into compliance. When he finally did open up, she is accusing him of "lying" and is making herself a victim because her husband became exactly the person she wanted him to be.
Where did she accuse him of lying?
OP said he has been "hiding" the truth. and you suggested "lying" in this context.
Hiding your true emotions is not lying and my use of lying is purely analogous. Hope that helps.
I agree that hiding your true emotions isn't lying. You are also right that although OP is feeling wronged or wounded in some way by him withholding his true feelings, she did not say he lied - that was in other victim-blaming comments critical of her husband
You obviously have never been a victim of familial abuse. My guess is he believes oit divorcing her, is his only way to protect his children.
You're projecting your own trauma on other people fyi. Your assumptions here are beyond ridiculous.
Really....ask your husband and children if they consider the behaviors you detailed in your post are/were abusive....easy way to find out. My guess, based on your original post and many replies is you know, but just want to minimize. Again....your choices...your life....your consequences. DARVO.. is easy to spot.
How would you know what I "obviously" am. If you don't have anything to say, you could just keep scrolling.
Pot meet kettle....
He's right, you're good with words. Let him go. He's never good enough.
Updateme.
I will message you next time u/Significant_Bath_186 posts in r/marriageadvice.
Click this link to also be messaged. The parent author can delete this post
You need to work on yourself. Start there.
Hey, welcome to what 90% of guys do. It’s a constant internal discussion of “Is this worth dealing with her cold shoulder, silence, and her lash out arguments for the next three hours?”
Guys care about peace more than pretty much anything.
EDIT: the fact that there are women who downvoted this🤦♂️
Not just guys…
Yeah I’m sure there is. But the expression “happy wife, happy life” didn’t just come out of nowhere. There’s a reason why that is a popular mantra.
Or as my husband likes to say, “slightly irritated wife, amused life”. 🤣
You're a wife. It's what we husbands do. I'm not sure what your issue or surprise is?
The misogyny is strong in here.
Please highlight the misogyny in the commenter's statement. If you argue with your husband the way you're arguing here - dismissing and attacking any opposing viewpoint with insults - it's pretty clear why he harbors resentment and pulls away.
Negative. I'm your husband in this case and I am a woman. It has nothing to do with being male or female. It has everything to do with not wanting to be yelled at or having emotional knock-down drag out fights where one person is steamrolling because they want to win at all costs. Some of us don't enjoy fighting and would rather discuss things calmly.
What in the world are yall fighting about that the fights get so intense anyway? There's no reason for that unless somebody is cheating or abusing the kids.
The first 6 comments ALL were like "yeah that's just what men do" or "duh, because that's what husbands do". That's what this comment was referring to...they've since been down voted so now it looks out of place.
Honey… no. When multiple people unanimously agree that you are in the wrong in this scenario then it’s probably time to look in the mirror instead of continuously pointing the finger at men in general? It honestly sounds like you have a blame problem and a bias against men in general. Like when they disagree with you, you disrespect their opinions and attribute it to misogyny or try to absolve yourself of any guilt in whatever way possible. You need to make it safe for your husband to talk to you or kiss what’s left of your marriage goodbye.
"honey..."
The disrespect is strong with you. People are trying to help you, and you can’t accept the message. Eventually we will walk away like your husband.
It most definitely is. A bunch of conflict avoidant, passive men taking this opportunity to band together and scapegoat women who just want to deal with the problems in their marriages. It's the "every woman I get involved with is a crazy bitch" brigade. 😝
Other than the "honey" earlier up in this comment thread, there isn't anything representing misogyny in the comments to this post. However, there are a handful of clearly sexist comments (such as yours here) directed at men who must only feel the way they do because they are conflict avoidant and passive and male.
OP didn't describe anything in her post or comments that qualifies as "trying to deal with the problems in her marriage." She wanted to be allowed to run roughshod over her husband during arguments, and for him to "take it like a man" - and when she didn't get to have her cake and eat it too, she's come crying here about how defeated she feels.
It really is.
'i have been horrible and im finally realising what the compilation of years of verbal hurting caused by me to my husband has come to, how do i make this about me".
You need help and guidance, and Im sorry to say, I think you have also put your husband or even kids in a position where they started to need help and guidance.
This pity seeking behavior won't go far. Work on yourself, girl.
6 missing replies
You've been more aggressive, more emotional, used his words and feelings against him, steam rolled him repeatedly for years and even now your words sound like it's his fault he's hasn't opened up to you for years so you could work on it.
You haven't been working on fixing anything you are still blaming him and wanting to use his actions and words against him.
What you are feeling is the consequences of your behavior.
He finally let you see a little bit of his world and you decided it is his fault that he couldn't talk to or share with you.
I honestly don't know if you can salvage your marriage with your attitude and behavior. It might be time to let him go.