I'm thinking about the present and future of the game. When I was a kid, Wizards would release only four sets per year and I was super excited about each set. I feel like the sets lost their 'magic' due to no more blocks and set overload. Although they still manage to make some amazing sets such as March of The Machine or Phyrexia IMO.
What do you think?
I am legitimately scared of the powercreep in MH3.
There are some powerful cards, was always going to be, but most are heavy build arounds which limits their impact. We will get architypes like eldrazi return but that will have good and bad match up from what I can see... no repeat or Eldrazi winter without Eye I don't think. Energy should be playable which is a positive. Other brews and tribes etc getting support but I don't think most current decks will get pushed out from the cards seen so far... granted official spoiler seasons is yet to start and we might see some bonkers stuff yet.
The problem is that all of this is framed by an undercurrent that fair magic is a fool thing to be doing. Consider how many cards in modern right now for major decks have cards that are significantly about either not paying the going cost for an effect or not paying a cost at all:
Grief
Scion of Draco
Leyline of the Guildpact
Leyline Binding
Indomitable Creativity
Persist
Force of Negation
Living End
Cascade
Subtlety
Murktide
Solitude
Summoners Pact
And the decks that do mostly pay full price for their spells tend to be doing so with big mana.
Not to mention that many fair or fair adjacent threats have kinda wack side effects. Ragavan hits are much more damaging when your deck is full of spells that are generally castable instead of zero cost spells with a printed mana value of 4+. And Dauthi Voidwalker is a Rest In Oh Hey Thanks For Letting Me Cast Your 6 Drop.
I feel like format staples like Fatal Push are healthier than these because a card that’s free if you have the right synergy is often more warping than a card that’s generically good.
Modern has never ever been about fair Magic. Play pioneer. This idea that moderns golden age was attacking with creatures is nonsense. The first modern pro tour (13 years ago) was won by an insanely unfun deck that got 10 infect damage using what amounted to a free spell. Modern isn’t powerful standard. It never has been. It never will be. Stop.
Fair magic has been a fool thing to do in all but 20% of moderns existence. Go play a fair format if you want fair magic.
By ‘fair’ here I mostly mean ‘you usually pay mana for your cards, and mostly close to what they actually cost’.
Sure. Like how merfolk’s win rate goes up by 70% when plays turn 1 Aethir vial. Because it’s good when it pays mana for its cards.
Lol
Doesn’t it say something to the example that you can think of for unfair mana cheating from that era is so unplayable now that it seems quaint?
Like, you’d have to be an idiot to run vial now, because playing it optimally involves composing your deck mostly of creatures you intend to be able to cast for their printed mana cost.
I'm sorry but you're straight wrong. Jund was a top deck for years and the most cheaty thing it did was cascade off of bloodbraid. Merfolk was a viable deck for years that just tempo'd out lords and beat down. Even something as annoying as lantern control was "fair" in that it just played its spells.
Of course there have been viable fair decks. Murktide is a viable fair deck now. But the format has always had a ton of unfair stuff going on.
I agree. I'm a huge eldrazi fan but I think I would rather prefer a lot of these cards didn't get printed. I too am very scared of the creep.
I like a lot of stuff in Magic and it is one of my favorite games still however after trying out a bunch of other TCGs I definitely feel like Magic could do better.
Card quality compared to Digimon and One Piece is so crazy different. Magic cards feel flimsy and I've yet to have a foil in those games that curls. I know it's too late in the games life to change the cardstock probably but I still feel like the current physical quality could be better.
Gameplay wise I feel like there's a little bit of mechanic overload. There's so many new mechanics and most of them feel like they never see play outside of limited. I do feel like new cards though are very neat and super interestingly designed around their themes.
I would love to play Standard but comparing it to the Pokemon TCG for the "entry level cheapest format" I think it's crazy how high the prices are. And I know at this point most people would say "just play mono-red" but if I want to play Standard I don't feel like I should be pigeonholed to a deck I probably won't enjoy. A standard deck should cost no more than $150 in my opinion for a rotating, entry level format and the fact that so many are $250 to $500 is ridiculous to me.
I really like the lore at the moment, even if March of the Machines was really disappointing. But I really liked the new stuff with Jace and Vraska and I'm really curious to see where the story goes next and hope Wizard's can pull off this new 3 year arc better than the last two.
Finally, I am kind of tired of Commander. It gets so many precons, and other formats get nothing now. I think there's too many legendary creatures. When I first started playing I thought legendary creatures were important story people that I'd have to remember for later on. Now we have so many new legendaries that I know will never show up ever again that it's kind of disappointing and takes me out of the story a little bit.
I know I sounded very negative but I really love playing Magic, it just feels like the greed and pushing product is a bit much at times. I don't even mind Universes Beyond at all. I just wish the game felt like it had more care put into than cranking out a bunch of new sets at breakneck speed.
Card stock quality actually depends depending where cards are printed. In Europe the quality is much more better than cards printed in America.
Even the EU mtg card quality feels like cheap paper compared to what Bandai does with their card games I'm gonna be real with you.
Definitely agree with the Commander fatigue in terms of it dominating the product line. The format hogs 50% of the attention and product line with precons and occasionally commander sets. Modern gets one set every 2 years with no precons. Standard sets are only semi-targeted at standard players now with the amount of non-legal bonus sheets and made for commander cards in them. If you don't release a product for a format, there's always a glass ceiling for how popular it can be and you'll end up at the mercy of your local scene.
Wizards have outdone themselves and released a product (the commander precon) that is such a good deal for both new and old players that it's warped the entire landscape of the game lol.
50%?No way..more like 98%
A standard deck should cost No More than $150 in my opinion for a rotating, entry level format and the fact that so many are $250 to $500 is ridiculous to me.
I agree. It's an interesting phenomena that there's such demand for cards that even though packs are still being printed containing those cards that prices are still available for purchase. Folks were wanting reprints of Sheoldred even with her being only a year into Standard. Like I get it, why buy packs when only one card is worth anything etc., but it's still interesting how the purchase environment is that a new product needs to be made in order for circulation to increase even though it's already technically available.
Coming from Yu-Gi-Oh! Seeing someone complain about a $250 deck kind of makes me chuckle. I agree with your point though, the main form of play should be affordable or you can’t attract new players which is one of the main reasons why Yu-Gi-Oh! Has a problem attracting new players.
Yugioh is more comparable to Legacy than Standard though imo, snce nothing ever rotates out.
Even then I think the average costs is comparable to Modern in Magic I believe, which I do believe is also too expensive if you ever want new players to get into it.
The sheer weight of mechanics is something that's always annoyed me, this desire to have NEW and FRESH every set means they're not building off anything interest imo, I mean I'm a Blue main so the number of cards I see especially that are SET MECHANIC: Draw a Card is really annoying.
Overall, I think Magic is in a pretty good spot.
I generally don't like the move to Universes Beyond, but I have enjoyed several of the individual Universes Beyond releases, so I guess I'm not too opposed. I do strongly believe they should not be legal in Modern/Legacy and continue to believe that.
I also don't like power creep but except for the straight to Modern sets (which have, overall, been a disaster balance-wise), I think the power level in Standard-legal sets has been pretty good in recent years.
There's a lot of stuff I don't care for but that I can just ignore or not think about much (like how many different "treatments" there are in every set, or most of the Secret Lairs). There's also a lot of recent things/trends I really like - for example, most competitively playable dual lands (basically anything that's not a Shock, Fetch, or Alpha Dual) is now cheap, we get vastly fewer "chaff" commons and uncommons nowadays, and I am optimistic about the potential of the Omenpaths in the lore. Overall, I've liked the new and announced planes from the past few years / upcoming sets (based on what we know about).
If there is 1 big thing I'd really like to see some improvement on, it's the actual (physical) card quality. Everyone knows about the curling foils, but miscut cards are about as common than not, and even an idiot spending 1 minute in Magic Set Editor can get the spacing of the card text to look better than it looks on a lot of recent cards.
Can I ask why you don’t think universes beyond should be legal? Im a bit new so I don’t understand the arguments for or against it. From what I see, it’s just the same types of cards with different styles
Mechanically unique cards should not be tied to IP that is not Magic, especially in situations where certain cards warp formats around them.
Deciding not to put [[Orcish Bowmasters]] or [[The One Ring]] in a deck makes your deck weaker.
I’ll give you the One Ring, but other than the set symbol, there’s absolutely nothing about Orcish Bowmasters that makes it look like a non-Magic IP (and I’m pretty sure that’s entirely intentional).
Fair. The issue I forsee is more something like... Patrick Starfish coming up in some future product as being somehow broken but not enough to warrant a ban. Imagine having to play in a magic tournament with a cartoon character as the foundation of your whole deck.
The One Ring being a staple was exactly what I didn't want out of UB.
Orcish Bowmasters - (G) (SF) (txt)
The One Ring - (G) (SF) (txt)
[[cardname]] or [[cardname|SET]] to call
Fighting my Sheoldred against Da Vinci or some weirdo from My Little Pony is the less Magic The Gathering thing in the world. UB should be for collectors and non competitive formats. There is no place for Spiderman nor Optimus Prime outside of Commander.
To solve the issues of staples needing to stay, they could print universes within of The One Ring, Bowmasters, and other similar cards.
Thats only a solution if they do that. So far almost all Universes Within cards have been for secret lairs, with few exceptions being art changes to fit mtg. Something like the one ring or anything that has "the ring tempts you" feels impossible to make good universes within for.
Alright eleven is gonna do x triggering gandalf 3 times and letting me attack with Zangief. Oh? Your gonna block with liberty prime and the twelfth doctor? This scenario above doesn't even make sense card wise but it tells the point. It doesn't feel much like magic when we got all these other IPs around. It's just kinda weird. Maybe if everyone single card has a non UB version like some of the secret lairs did I'd like it more
Becoming more relevant as time marches on lol
I kinda feels like we’ve been spoiled by our estranged dad for the past 5 or so years. I’m getting sick of the candy but I’m still eating the icecream and never going to bed.
What the community probably needs is some structure and to eat their vegetables but that doesn’t sell packs.
Pandering. The word you are looking for is pandering. Everything that they make now is just shameless pandering. In one sense or another, like perfectly handcrafted commander archetypes, or shameless references, or IP crossovers, or comic sans joke cards, et al. Everybody gets exactly what they want all the time. It's like they prowl every last MTG Reddit comment looking for any comment that got 2 upvotes and then they print it even if it was only half serious.
And yet still no dark souls ub
Can they read my comments about an Orzhov/Mardu Angel tribal commander 🥺.
But in all seriousness I do agree. I feel the Dr Who decks were especially indicative of this, as the property hasn't been culturally relevant (in the UK, anyway) since 2010.
Using the Dr Who IP instead of in-universe magic may have been pandering but mechanically, that set had a lot of really cool cards. I’ve never watched Doctor Who and have no interest in it, but I still loved that set.
I genuinely do not understand this comment, what are you wanting? I kinda got the analogy until you hit the veggies part, I just have no idea what your problem is or what the solution would be?
Not OP, but Less sets, less powercreep, especially in direct to Format xy sets, less UB craze ?
Fella needs to call their dad and get stuff off their chest
...desert squirrel deck, you say?
I was gonna go to sleep, but I suppose I can get a list going!
Commander casuals are cheap and don't update their desert squirrel decks more than once in a blue moon
Most of the people I play with are always brewing new decks. Meanwhile most of the modern players haven't updated their decks since MH2.
TBF, that's entirely on MH2, not Modern players as a whole.
Yeah the whole MH set line in general completely fucked modern. MH3 is looking to be more of the same
Commander casuals are cheap and don't update their desert squirrel decks more than once in a blue moon when the next squirrel rare is released. They don't open packs. They don't attend events. They don't expand the MTG community.
You're so wrong here it's silly. If I'm getting trolled, good bait.
Every week, my LGS has Commander events with promos and everything with 30+ players.
I see at least one box opened a week, and probably another whole box worth of loose packs get opened.
Also, people at my LGS are constantly playing new decks and editing others, trading, and more.
And something else I've noticed is that people who got into Commander bring their friends, who bring their friends. We went from one to maybe two pods if we were lucky, to 8-10 pods on busy weeks.
I think you're placing the blame on the wrong people, Commander players didn't ask to be coddled - Wizards is just following the trends, and more importantly - the money.
Haven't they said that Commander is basically their biggest format at this point?
And the Commander Precons are replacing the junk intro decks that were always so bad stores in my experience couldn't give them away (Wow, a whole TWO rares!)
Hell, if I was being passive aggro, the people who aren't buying product are the Modern and older formats, where unless a card REALLY shakes up the meta they're still playing the same strats and buying a playset of the one or two new cards on the secondary market.
I even remember complaints when the first modern sets came out, because they were that big and people were upset they suddenly had to buy new cards
Some commander players like my much more casual friends don't buy much but me and the people who play multiple times a week at my lgs are constantly brewing new decks and buying packs, precons etc. and like it or not, it essentially is the core game now
I also think that commander players don't realize they exist as a subset of MTG players and are not The Core community.
I mean casual kitchen table has always been the biggest audience. Commander is just the visible side of that, since you can play it with randos at an LGS (that's the visible part), while you can't bring your 60 card Auroch tribal to Legacy night and expect an even game.
In my honest opinion it’s in a pretty bad state. The sets are coming more frequently, which speaks to a “always what’s next, not what’s here” mentality that some companies get into. Hype can’t provide longevity. The management of Hasbro seems ready to really start putting the screws to player’s wallets and if that continues long enough I might stop playing. Now, all that said I love the game and would very much like to be able to keep playing it for decades to come. It just feels like management’s putting monetization over the health of the game and that poses problems.
That's the great thing about magic as opposed to digital only games. They could stop printing cards today and you could still play for decades to come
As a commander player, I'm largely disinterested in the current state of Magic. There is rarely a set that totally shakes up the metagame for me unless they print support foe specific archetypes I have built (Deserts for example).
As a cube designer, I'm ecstatic at the current state of Magic. There's always something new and cool to tool around with and lots of potential avenues for new limited environments to curate. We also finally have a reasonable level of reprints of in-demand cards.
Us cubers have been absolutely thriving these last few years. So many amazing cube contenders.
Because of all the cool stuff coming out lately, I've been struggling with cuts in my cube, so I turned it into a Battle Box and have been having a lot more fun.
Can you explain cubing to me? Is it a draft of 360 cards you put in yourself? 8 players draft that set of 360 cards you chose?
Yeah that's pretty much it. You get to build your own environment and your own themes. It will take a while to make it perfect but Cube Cobra is a good website for seeing what other people have done.
Not really.
As a former spike-type player, the cancellation of GPs basically took away the reason I play this game. I don't really care about rotation for competitive formats or poorly designed sets. I even played in many GPs during the period when they banned three cards in Standard every year. Even in the bad times, I still bought decks and practiced at my LGS to attend GPs.
I play this game because it used to give me a reason to meet people in different places all over the world. It felt comforting that in an unfamiliar place, there was a community also playing and organizing game events in a way I was familiar with. Kitchen table is not how players like me play this game.
A strategy fantasy game; play the game, see the world; a ladder to a higher competitive stage. These three aspects combined are why I like this game. It is not about game design itself, but the whole experience organized play offered.
I'm still playing this game in a 'low power mode,' but I don't have the passion I used to have.
okay, i've been out of competitive play for over a decade but im trying to get back into it.
are there really no avenues to higher levels of competition anymore? whats the competitive circuit like these days? i see footage of large tournaments from recent months, so im confused as to why i keep seeing people say that there isnt a way to compete seriously at a high level aynmore.
“Let’s do power creep at super-speed!”
Less walls of rules text, more walls of flavor text please.
No. Wizards literally cut my language from the game and still sells overpriced product that makes me unable to share my hobby.
Am I happy? It deoends.
Things I love:
Things I don't love: - pre-MH3, modern is kinda doing weird and I'm not liking the look so far of how little support some meta decks are getting in MH3 whilst others that are already powerful are being cranked or forced into existence - Commander design is making a lot of standard mythics etc unplayable outside of commander. I've brewed with the previewed Bria from Bloomburrow, for example, and at 4CMC she's a cool commander but awful in every 60-card format - constant spoiler season and constant new product makes it hard to keep up - the Reserved List is so fucking out of date, it makes me sick knowing that WotC would rather formats slowly rot into nonexistence than biting the bullet on loosening things (even giving basic duals another print or giving us snow duals would be such a help for keeping legacy alive) - dated bans that we could totally handle just don't come back. We got back the copter in pioneer but imo we could totally manage having back Splinter Twin, and either Ponder or Looting, in Modern (but who knows, maybe we get Careful Study in MH3 though, that'd be nice) - UB. I said I liked it, but I have limits -- flavour-wise, Warhammer and LotR were far easier to adjust to than Transformers and Jurassic Park. - Whale-hunting instead of quality product. Give us playsets in secret lairs and arena codes in play boosters, stop pretending that the secondary market and the price to print are the same lmao
Commander design is making a lot of standard mythics etc unplayable outside of commander. I've brewed with the previewed Bria from Bloomburrow, for example, and at 4CMC she's a cool commander but awful in every 60-card format.
To be fair I feel its a power level/power creep of 60 card formats if a 4cmc card is unplayable rather than a problem of commander.
Imo at 3CMC she would be a very cool but not-OP commander, and would be potentially quite a cool 3-drop in Izzet prowess. At 4CMC she's an Okie commander and a very boring pull for modern, standard, pioneer etc
Commander design is making a lot of standard mythics etc unplayable outside of commander.
Weren't most mythics/rares not played even prior to Commander? That was half the point of the format, to play those things that weren't competitive. Like [[Cast Through Time]] or [[Lux Cannon]] were just kinda cool Timmy cards, though if they were released today folks would be complaining about slots being taken up by Commander cards.
I was just saying this in another thread, that I've been playing since '98, and from a game design perspective, Magic keeps getting better and better. Virtually every constructed format is fun, and card designs are a lot more engaging and balanced than they were in years past. However many folks don't see it this way, and I think that has more to do with WotC as a company (with things like Secret Lair and different booster types) than R&D's game design.
Idk, I’m not sure Modern has ever been as good as it was before they started designed Modern Horizons sets. Those “straight to modern” sets are a mistake.
Modern is more popular than it has been in recent memory - horizon sets definitely changed modern - and it's a matter of opinion if the gameplay is better - but pioneer is slowly creeping into "old modern" power level, it just needs deck diversity.
Imo mh1 saved modern, and 2 made the meta wide open. Mh3 is very exciting.
As a long time Modern player, I think Modern was in a really poor state prior to Modern Horizons 1. The format is much more interactive and engaging than it was back then.
However, there are several designs in Modern Horizons I dislike. I don't dislike free spells conceptually, but I think the pitch elementals were too pushed. I also don't really like Ragavan, but that's probably more of a personal bias than any nuanced opinion on game design.
MH1 had saved modern, but MH2 basically wiped out all classic tier-two decks from the meta and forced the format to rotate to a MH2-focused block. People's opinions on the set are largely determined by their position when MH2 was released. For players who joined the format early and wanted a non-rotating, more casual play experience with their tier-two decks, MH2 is a disaster. It is the same reason why people don't like rotation of standard and quiting game.
It's really strange to me because I played humans before and slightly after mh2, and that deck is totally gone from the meta - and despite this don't really care because they opened up a ton of options to play other decks.
When mh2 dropped so many staples were dirt cheap - it was a brewers paradise. I agree with your statement with casual play as the people who seem most upset by it either never played modern to begin with or complain about their deck that wasn't good before modern horizons getting even worse afterwards.
As a Human player, I think I understand why the deck has disappeared over the last two years. It's because [[Fury]] was introduced to the format, and it ruled out all small creature decks. Humans was a tier-one deck back in 2019, though outperformed by Spirits. After that, it was a viable archetype until MH2 completely rotated it out. MH2 opened space for new brews but also set a threshold that certain archetypes won't be viable under the framework it created.
The 'casual' you mentioned is not what I mean in my statement. The tier-two decks in old Modern still required people to invest a significant amount of money for staples and were not equivalent to bad decks. The 'casual' I'm talking about is just the option to not FOMO and play the game or deck they want. It's like in Commander, where you'd invest in your pet commander and not need to worry about rotation causing all your investment to suddenly be gone.
For example, there was an 'Infect guy' in my LGS. He played UG Infect for about 3 to 4 years, since it was a thing in the meta. He tuned and updated his deck to fit the meta and gradually changed all the cards to foil. If he had a favored meta, he'd play more; if he had a less favored meta, he'd play less. He was gone after MH2.
The brewing space is always limited. The only way to create more brewing space is to eliminate existing brews, which causes the investment former brewers made to be lost. Standard always has new brewing space because of rotation, but that doesn't help people trade that brewing space for their real money. I guess a lot of new players who joined modern from MH2 will learn that painful lesson soon. Their "new brew" will be ruled out by force rotation from MH3. And after another that kind of rotation, modern will become another despicable standard to them too.
The problem with Modern Horizon's additions to modern wasn't what they changed, it was how sudden and drastic those changes were.
Haven’t played modern since 2015, but I heard Andrea Mengucci saying that before modern was not as good as post MH.
Yes, the cards are broken and rotated the format, but they kept the variety of decks and improved the interactivity of the format.
I think the "real" biggest issue with MHx sets is that:
I agree that the MHx sets so far made modern as a whole better, but it hasn't been a flawless process.
Yeah that’s basically my take. Aside from a few design mistakes I like what MH did for the meta. Hot take but I think the evoke elementals are great design, and act as important safety valves. They’re not “free”, 2 for 1ing yourself is a big deal (and that’s why Fury was a mistake, you can kill multiple creatures with it). Trading card advantage for tempo is a good option to have. The problem comes when you also add value engines like The One Ring or Up the Beanstalk that completely remove that downside.
But the other big problem is that so many people love Modern as a format where you can build a deck and play it forever, and play all your favorite cards. But Horizons turned the top tiers into a rotating format where if you want to be competitive you have to spend hundreds on monkeys and elementals, and decks that used to be competitive are just left in the dust. That part is a huge feels bad.
I started playing in OG Innistrad and got really into modern around a year in. I was really excited for MH1 and I agree that the MH sets have helped/improved interactivity in the format. However I stopped playing modern a while after MH1. The shake up to the format was just too expensive for me to keep up with and I watched MH2 come out and completely warp/change the meta again. I can't justify spending that much money on new decks everytime a new MH set comes out, sure wish I could though. #UnbanSplinterTwin
Hate Universes Beyond and the incessant commodification of the game to appease shareholders. The roughly 30-40% increase in paper product price without a congruent rise in EV is also a strong deterrent to my association with this game. I love cracking packs, but not for the price point they're normalizing. It still drives me nuts they essentially averaged the contents of a draft and set booster but maintained the higher price, effectively coercing players to pay more for a conceptually worse product.
However, I love the sheer number of relevant reprints lately and the accessibility of multiple formats. Recency bias notwithstanding but I cannot recall a time where I so consistently found myself highly engaged with Limited environments (no, not you MKM).
I had this same feeling about UB but whenever I've played with new people at my LGS there is always a lovely person who says "I never was interested in Magic but I love Fallout/Doctor Who and so I picked up a deck...".
I'm still not a huge fan and I try to minimise the amount of UB cards I play, mainly as I feel lots of them don't click with my deck's vibes, but it really expanded the playerbase and brought lots of great people into the hobby who otherwise wouldn't be here.
As a new player, I'm not a fan of commander. It makes it difficult to learn what's going on when you can't even see your opponents mat.
Oh I have to mill my entire library and lose? You're gunna hit me for 50 commander damage? I have no idea what was going on to set that up because I'm so focused on trying to learn what I can do.
Seems like my only option for really learning is kitchen table magic on the rare occasion I can convince someone to play. Then it's not fun because I gotta teach someone when I barely know what I'm doing.
Other than that I play arena but it just feels like I'm being milked for micro transactions.
Too much product coming out, too many variants. That's my only complaint.
If you mean variants as in new art, i fully disagree. More art for cards makes cards cheaper and gives more options for personal preference
More art for cards doesn't make cards cheaper; more reprints does. The number of different art treatments in a single booster makes it a lot harder to identify what's what, and the sheer volume of different treatments means they're just throwing ideas at the wall rather than carefully considering them. The OTJ Breaking News extra sheet for example was pretty universally hated because it looked ugly and made all the cards look damaged, and the MKM detective sheet ones made everything look like a white card. Going back to the Innistrad Double Feature, that was also an abject failure because of booster construction, but also because the B&W palette made it much harder to parse colour identity at a glance. They've done a lot of full art lands that don't look like the colour they represent.
Magic is so successful partly because of its incredible visual design, and fucking around with that too hard too often is diluting that. Individual treatments can be great like the Enchanting Tales bonus sheet from WOE (the Hardened Scales art is just incredible) but they're overdoing it in the same way as they are with Universes Beyond, Commander products, product in general, Magic in general. WotC/Hasbro doesn't understand how to do anything in moderation anymore.
Been playing since 2000. I hate UB. Some was kinda neat like the LotR stuff, but I don't think the good outweighs the bad. I also really dislike all the other big in-universe crossover stuff from the past couple of years, particularly the omenpaths. I'm mixed about some of the worldbuilding– there are elements I like (e.g. hollow earth ixalan, fomori precursors) and elements I really don't (e.g. terra nullius as native representation in thunder junction).
I don't particularly like the increasing design focus on commander– the format really lost a lot of its charm when it stopped being about finding a use case for weird forgotten chaff. I maintain that the format would be better off if sol ring were banned, but I digress. I don't like the entire affair with silver-border/acorn stuff, and stickers should never have happened as such. I wish they would tighten up on keywording various game actions to improve readability/comprehension of rules text (e.g. all the descend/descent wording was ridiculous), as well as using weird, parasitic side games more sparingly (e.g. day/night, dungeon, initiative, monarch, ascend, stickers, contraptions, progressive enchantments like sagas and cases, etc.). Also, I think creature type bloat has gotten pretty bad– another Grand Creature Type Update is long overdue. Otherwise, I like where the game design is in terms of limited, set cohesion, and complexity in general.
I haven't been a big standard player since like, Caw-Blade, so I don't have much to say about that. I wish that scene were a bit healthier in the LGS's, but whatever. Stuff's too expensive these days. Not that Legacy has been easily accessible in like, 15-20 years, but as a Legacy player it pains me to see WotC doing absolutely nothing to help that situation. At the very least, they need to ditch the Reserved List and start a modest reprint policy of key cards on it like yesterday.
There's far too much "premium" product to make any of it actually feel premium. And the constant spoiler season has given me massive product fatigue, with all signs pointing to increased product fatigue moving forward as more and more UB/Secret Lair/adjacent products come down the pipeline. The only spoilers I really even notice anymore are the leaks, honestly. Even Secret Lairs feel bland for the most part. For that matter, it's a relatively minor gripe, but the Secret Lair Direct-to-Consumer business model still feels predatory against LGS's and independent alter artists.
So, I'm feeling negative to middling about it, I'd say. I play a fair bit of cube, so I'm eating good, I guess.I've recently gotten a couple of friends into pauper and block constructed revivals, which are interesting gameplay constraints and have proven to be pretty good times. But I've cut back my spending easily by a couple thousand dollars per year over the past couple years, so my recent enjoyment really feels more in spite of the current game direction than because of it. There's potential for me to come back if there's a big change in direction, but I don't really see it happening.
Big YES to your point about Commander losing a lot of its charm once they went all-in on designing specifically for the format. I used to be constantly brewing new Commander decks around weird cards or off-kilter interactions; I don't bother anymore, because whatever I build will get completely blown off the table by whatever graveyard/tribal/card-advantage nonsense has gotten printed in the latest Commander release. I don't play Commander to win, but I don't see much point in playing a so-called casual format where all my opponents' decks are jammed with post-2018 value engines that were printed to power-creep the jank out of the casual format.
Yeah this is big for me. Once I started seeing the jank slowly get forced out and EVERYTHING was perfect to fit and a super value engine in and of itself… it was done. Commander used to be where you could take your big jank and play it but now it’s become so formulaic that you don’t have room for something that doesn’t do 12 things or win the game.
The soul got stripped away and they kept on pumping more product specifically towards it. A little was nice. A once a year release was fine while most product was focused to standard and modern and diamonds in the rough would rise up. I think it really got bad at the focus of fire design and hyper focus on commander
My group has transitioned to pauper commander just to get away from the FIRE design nonsense. You can have a banding deck facing up against a treasures deck or a slivers deck and they can take it down to the wire well-matched.
I don't particularly like the increasing design focus on commander– the format really lost a lot of its charm when it stopped being about finding a use case for weird forgotten chaff
This right here
At the very least, they need to ditch the Reserved List
As nice as that would be, that's a pretty big ask, and not really a "at the very least" lol
The game no longer appeals to me aesthetically. I guess that leaves me with cube.
Cube will outlive Magic.
Exactly it's like a self contained game. I guess you could say the same for people with equilibrated decks that could play against each other.
I'm very happy with the state of the game mechanically speaking but in terms of collecting as a TCG, I don't like the game as much anymore largely because they try to make everything feel special which makes nothing special as a result. Foils aren't rare anymore, mythics aren't rare anymore, there are ten different foil types, every rare has like 6 different promo versions and booster fun being ubiquitous makes the game no longer have a cohesive look and feel.
I've been playing since around 2004. From a mechanical/design perspective, I think I generally like where Magic has been going. Most new mechanics have been interesting and set design is much more coherent. I don't enjoy the intensified power creep or the move away from playing on the stack to "spells on legs."
My only few exceptions (which are vehement) can easily be attributed to Hasbro suits interfering with or dictating design decisions (whether this is true or not, it's a narrative that makes me feel better). The game feels watered down in many respects. I think it was the LPR podcast that called it the "Fortnite"-ification of Magic and it's so true. The MCU might have been one of the worst things to happen to the game.
The business decisions over the past several years ("green arrow go up") have continued to make me feel more disillusioned with the game as a whole, but I'm content with my relationship with the game these days. I get to play Legacy once a week with some other Magic boomers and I enjoy designing Cubes where I can simply ignore the aspects of the game I don't like. And I can continue to do that whether we're living in Late Stage MTG or not.
I hate being priced out of Modern & Legacy. I hate feeling like I constantly need to catch up with my local meta. I don’t like commander but it’s all my friend group plays. Pioneer is only played during RCQ season despite me really enjoying it. I don’t like arena or MTGO.
Mechanically the game is great. The new cards releasing are fun. I love drafting but feel like most people in my area money draft which makes for boring and unfun games. Idk, man. This game/hobby has such a high barrier of entry, cost wise, that it makes it hard to enjoy. Mythic rarity & pushing Commander products were mistakes.
I’m so tired by the volume of product being released. They could halve the amount of different sets and side releases and I’d be very content. I do miss core sets and I miss blocks as well. At this point I don’t care about the story. Someone got married, someone got murdered and the whole gang played Sherlock, now the gang decided to go to westworld and play cowboys. None of this really contributes to the world, but as stand alone sets they had fun game pieces.
I’m so tired by the volume of product being released. They could halve the amount of different sets and side releases and I’d be very content.
I absolutely agree.
You do not even have time to digest the new releases before the next product starts getting pushed.
just one person's opionion, but I think commander is the worst thing to happen to magic, and leaning harder and harder into that is making it a worse game overall.
Only play commander, no interest in 60 card 4 of constructed.
Once WOTC set their sights on EDH and it wasn’t just a cool mod, the quality of the game has deteriorated quite a bit.
I cannot fathom why they think putting super complex unset cards in the most complicated format, is a good idea or fun. Gee let me sit and wait while you do something I can’t interact with and takes several minutes to resolve. My attention turns off and I just now need to trust it’s being done correctly. Doubles! Triples! Copy tokens. Let me wait while you draw them or remind me what they are.
The complexity creep is such a major pain in the ass to track in paper. They have thrown out any and all design guidelines that existed for decades regarding mental load.
Additionally, to make the game more casual, they have made cards so complex and powerful they are the payoff and the enabler in one, quickly pushing out a lot of the charm of deckbuilding with neat synergy interactions. They now favor people being able to play haymakers that must be answered or the game is over.
Magic, mechanically resembles a free to play game these days. There is no free tier.
I might just be getting old, but every time I try to read one of these new cards that's all "copy a spell, create a token that's a copy of your commander except it's not legendary, and destroy target noncreature permanent, then draw a card," my eyes just glaze right over. So many of these new designed-for-Commander cards are just putting hats on top of hats on top of hats, and it's just not fun to parse the game state anymore.
Its not just you. I feel the same, and i consider myself a pretty compotent magic player. But it is so much stuff. I feel wotc is so lazy too. Its always DOUBLE DOUBLE, COPY, CAST THE COPY. Its like dude, i want something thats a bit unique. Not a doubler thats.. wait for it.. ON A CREATURE THATS 5/5 INSTEAD OF AN ENCHANTMENT. SO DIFFERENT.
Well, I still remember someone from WotC saying that most buyers of this game are kitchen table players who never go to tournaments in stores. It is not very surprising that WotC pleases them as much as possible. But pretending that organized play is fine and power creeping is not problematic while at the same time not wanting to put resources into solving the problem is another issue entirely.
Back in the mid-to-late 2000s, Wizards were leaning really heavily into competitive play, to the detriment of the game as a whole. I remember opening pro player cards in products and being absolutely baffled about who these people were, and why I should care. It culminated with Time Spiral block, which is one of the best blocks ever made for enfranchised players, and absolutely awful for new and/or casual players. It's filled with in-jokes, references, more keywords than you can shake a stick at, just, like, all of Future Sight. Lorwyn block was equally bad, but due to its sheer complexity instead. It was so bad that, according to people who worked at Wizards at the time, even the employee prerelease had people walking out because it was overwhelming.
So Wizards adapted. They made more cards that were appealing to casual players. For about half a decade, they seemed to have an unofficial policy of refusing to talk about any lore older than the Mending. They started releasing products like Planechase, Archenemy, and Commander. Not everything worked out, but overall, it was good. Eventually they started working in old lore again, and things seemed to be going well for a good long while.
Now we seem to be heading towards the opposite problem, though, where Wizards are hyper-fixated on their hyper-casual and potential future customers, while only seeing enfranchised players as whales to drain for money with special treatments and sets like Modern Horizons that they can force competitive players to buy into if they want to keep playing competitive formats. I'm being somewhat hyperbolic here, perhaps, but that's how it feels right now. It's the same issue as back in the day, the target demographic is just different.
WotC has changed a lot after Hasbro made it a division of company. In the old days, I had blind faith that they would fix things eventually. But today? I really don't know. The game has changed too much, and their business decisions are beyond my understanding.
~60 card 1v1 casual >>>> commander
I absolutely agree. And I say this as someone who got into Commander back when it was called EDH. The format has become a parasite on card design, sucking the energy from everything in favor of bloated text boxes and endless niche legendaries.
I really agree with this. While there is absolutely nothing wrong with Commander, it being the main focus of Wotc is a problem. About 10ish years ago, FNM was thriving. Yes, Commander was a thing but it wasn’t the main way to play so FNM was full of Spikes and casuals and home brewers all playing together in the same tournament. Now FNM is all spikes and all the more casual players left for Commander. The Commander format split the community. Before we’d all play the same format and play together. Now you’re either a spike or a casual and FNM has suffered so much in attendance because of this rift.
Yeah I agree with this. I do like commander but all the product is killing it for me. I wish older* formats were more affordable use to love modern but feel kind of priced out since the direct sets.
Honestly, I'd just like to google search a question about standard and for once not have the top 6000 answers be from /r/EDH.
No, commander is one of the best things to happen in magic.
WOTC discovering commander is the worst thing to happen to magic.
An MTG curse: “I hope WOTC notices your niche format”
It was an amazing niche and quirky format it sucks as a main format.
It is not, it turns out, just one person's opinion
I've long fallen into that camp, and I will die on this hell. Hell, I'll exile myself even.
Been with this since 1997. Witnessing such evolution has been remarkably interesting. And mildly infuriating. And absolute dumb fuck juice squeezed right out of MaRo's colon.
it has pros and cons. the sense of wonder and explorations have been gone for many years now.
most meta are solve in less than two weeks max. plus, what is the point? it is not like there are tournaments to build for? store championship is no longer worth it. why spent $200-$500 to build a competitive standard deck when you can play them for relatively free on arena?
with constant previews season, all the excitement are numb. “what? oh i have to get this new hotness again? kk. oh, another one? kk. what? one more? i didn’t even have time to build a deck around the last one! holy shit, one more? yeah, okay, i don’t care anymore.”. this is the state of the game.
No. I think the game has gone in a direction I don’t enjoy and I don’t see that direction changing.
I don’t like the obvious strain of trying to increase yearly profits again and again, with endless releases filled with endless variants to milk this game into a dry husk.
I don’t like how the flavor of the game has gotten so unimportant than the newest set doesn’t even have a Planeswalker’s Guide.
I don’t like how tournament play has been neglected, particularly standard, and the entire game is focused around Commander.
I don’t like how Universes Beyond is now a core part of the game, and often receives more love than the original magic setting.
I don’t like how the card text has gotten so unbelievably wordy without much in the way of clean new mechanics. I especially hate nonsense like stickers or Take the Initiative.
Magic just sucks right now. I don’t even feel like saying “it’s not for me” because I feel the game is genuinely in a worse place than it was just five years ago. And even when WotC does something right, I can’t help but think of the over 1,100 staff members who lost their jobs there last Christmas, and it’s impossible to feel anything other than cynicism or contempt.
I haven’t bought a card for myself since All Will Be One. I don’t plan to start again.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the state of the game.
Biggest concern is product fatigue because we have no downtime between products. I'm fine with the different pack types, precons, etc but we basically go from a set's release right into leaks/spoilers for the next one. It's mentally and financially draining. Secret Lairs were fine until they shifted to limited supply which is blatantly anti consumer and Universes Beyond is fine even if it's hit or miss on me liking them but frankly both could use a slower release schedule like the rest of MTG products.
Play wise I couldn't be happier. Commander helped bring me back to the game after a few years away for personal reasons and provides me with the social, relaxing experience I want from my hobbies. The continued support for the format keeps it fresh and enjoyable. It's good for my mental health and it has brought old players back and new players in in my personal experience. I know some people feel the opposite but imo Commander is the best thing to happen to Magic.
Limited remains enjoyable when I want something a bit more competitive without being a rigid meta like the ones that drove me away from 60 card formats in the past. I was concerned about play boosters but, generally, I have enjoyed the spicier limited pools. I acknowledge that for more competitive players the variance introduced by play boosters, bonus lists, etc may not be desirable and am not trying to belittle their concerns but overall I have found they make for a more interesting limited experience personally.
I only popped into the subreddit today out of mild curiosity about MH3 spoilers. Haven't been doing so regularly for a while now, I've been pretty put off by the current direction of Magic lately (in several different ways).
Not especially. They've gone about UB in the most divisive and toxic way possible.
And they lost some important stuff when they did away with blocks.
No,
Commander; I thought was a niche format has really taken off and split the MTG community into 2 groups. I like the Commander idea (group of friends playing together) but 100 cards double sleeved is tough to store/play, 1 of each card is tedious draw/combo, the games seem to take much longer over traditional 60. I enjoy kitchen table magic myself. Everyone balance the power together.
Abundant set releases and SLD. There's just too many sets and promo cards for me. No Standard format cards come out, modern format is coming, and commander format cards.
Arena is so short sighted for gameplay. No Archenemy. No Planeschase. The old games coming back would be great, Shandalar was very neat and could be modernized.
I like draft, draft is still really fun. Except for MKM but that happens from time to time.
Being able to play Standard on Arena for free (given decent drafting skills) on my time is more fun than making specific time to play competitive in an unfun irl setting.
But fun irl games like cube and commander are better than ever, and although I acknowledge the downsides of all the product releases is also cool to have to read cards and not knowing everything off the top of my head, takes me back to when I first picked up the game 11 years ago which I enjoy.
I'm greatly enjoying Universes Beyond even when it involves IPs I don't like. I've read a number of MTG novels over the past 20 years and quite frankly the ingame lore isn't very good anyway so it's not much of a loss there.
I am not very happy with the way magic has turned out, and I place that blame squarely on commander. When commander came out it was a curiosity but it is such a limited format. Singleton in particular really rubs me the wrong way. You can’t really build a deck that works together because your chance of drawing any single card is so low. You can mitigate that with tutors, but then every deck starts looking the exact same.
Anyway, I’m an old fart, and that’s what you are supposed to do when you get older: complain about how stuff was better when you were younger.
EDH player here since 2013 with a splash of standard, modern and pauper thrown here and there. Overall I do enjoy the game for its social aspects and bringing community together, but I do feel exhausted from the constant new releases. Another thing I miss is the lack of easy to follow story lines. The days of the three set block was lovely. It made it easy to track rotation and it was awesome seeing the development of a story rather than having the whole thing thrown at you in one big set. Things like people speculating about whether Emrakul was coming to Innistrad during the eldritch moon spoiler season and digging through art for little clues and hints on what is to come. It also allowed archetypes to be more fleshed out and get a huge burst of new support cards rather than just one new sets worth for a new mechanic. I would have loved to see more mutate in a continued Ikoria set!
I get to draft for free at home on Arena. That fact is as downright amazing as it was when I first discovered it when I got back into Magic 4+ years ago.
Because I just draft, all the ‘product fatigue’ stuff people complain about doesn’t hit me at all- most of it’s Not For Me. Neither is the cost, which is nice.
Set design is generally great. A little too aggressive over the last year, but they seem to be already correcting that.
I sympathise with people who don’t want Universes Beyond because they value the Magic setting, but I don’t feel strongly about it myself and again it barely affects Arena drafters. LotR felt weird though, it being a weird Magic-LotR mashup did make me draft it less.
The art direction’s a bit boring compared to the old, old days. Too many smoothly photorealistic Action Poses With Dramatic Lighting. I’d rather have more diversity… although I get the impression they might be correcting that a bit. Also Outlaws has some art that’s unusually shonky. Possible casualty of the increased release schedule?
- The art direction’s a bit boring compared to the old, old days. Too many smoothly photorealistic Action Poses With Dramatic Lighting. I’d rather have more diversity… although I get the impression they might be correcting that a bit. Also Outlaws has some art that’s unusually shonky. Possible casualty of the increased release schedule?
That would be my guess. It easily has the most scuffed art since Battle for Zendikar and Magic Origins. Honestly worse than those sets for me.
Bloomburrow’s cards revealed so far look nice at least.
Yeah, the upside of the more uniform style was that you get fewer misses… but Outlaws manages to have quite a few. Mentioning no names because criticising people’s art feels weirdly personal… except [[Rakish crew]], because I saw the artist on Reddit agreeing with criticism. Which I was hugely impressed by- I would probably have shut my laptop and hid under the nearest duvet…
In relation to your last point, I'd like to point out that we are also in a golden age when it comes to art variety and experimentation, we have a good number of artist, mainly newer ones, with very defined styles that deviate from what the standard style is and are easly recognizable, if we add in showcase art, then the variety in styles increases even more
Things I love about the current system:
1) more sets with more unique cards, more focus on eternal formats with cards legal only on eternal formats (which means higher complexity and power level), like modern horizons or commander sets.
2) more focus on commander in general, my favorite format
3) I love the Universe Beyond project and I hope one day they gonna hit an IP i particularly care about.
4) Love when they make old characters or worlds from the past that never received a card, like in commander or modern horizon products.
5) art is great as usual, and I appreciate the artistic experiments of Secret Lairs.
6) Battles are a great addition to the game
What I dont like:
1) The story is bad and boring, and there is no real stake never. Now every main character, especially planeswalker, seems to have the plot armor, and I hate that.
2) They still didn't get rid of the Reserved List
3) I dont like digital-only mechanics of Alchemy. Cards should at least be errated to work also in paper, even if with different functionality.
4) the color pie is a bit too conservative and repetitive in the cards. We wanna see new effects tapped and explored.
5) they should preview a bunch of new cards every single day of the year if it were for me lol.
6) I hate the "1 planeswalker per set" philosophy. For me, the more planeswalkers around, the better.
The story is bad and boring, and there is no real stake never. Now every main character, especially planeswalker, seems to have the plot armor, and I hate that.
The story for the last few sets has been pretty good with the only major fumble being the very ending of MoM. I don't think main characters right now have more plot armor than they ever did tbh. The stakes are relatively present but they were always kinda weak in this departement so I'm happy that they switching to more personal focused conflicts like in WoE and OTJ
I feel like the quality is still there but its being undermined by quantity. Like there are still some great sets being made but there's just...too much going on, and some of it is not good.
I also feel like lore has taken a dive. Between Universes Beyond and the main sets just going through various gimmick worlds now, it feels really silly. There's no character growth or sweeping stories anymore. Even the latest phyrexian storyline seemed shallow and ended with an anticlimax. We used to explore planes and get to know them over the course of the year, now it's just go through the portal, put on a silly hat, pose for a photo, and on to the next one.
Honestly im a primarily limited player so things have been pretty great.
And now that im no longer deep in commander and just trying to make weird decks, i appreciate how many unique and interesting commanders weve been getting from set-commander decks. OTJ commanders alone have like 5 weird ones im in love with.
It definitely has its issues, but for me specifically now that im not deeply in commander like i use to be and just playing standard limited primarily as my competitive fix, its in a solid spot
I think they’re doing great design-wise and even story-wise, but the greedy make as much money as possible side makes it harder to enjoy what theyre doing well
Mechanically? Yes, aside from card text volume.
Business? No not at all. There’s too much product and it’s all too expensive. 140 dollars for play boxes is crazy. Also what seems to be the encouragement of shallow on the nose planes.
New capenna, and thunder junction I really cannot stand aesthetically. I liked the murders at karlov manor at first but the longer I sat with it the whimsy of it wore off and seems to be a pattern of shallow genre aesthetic painted harshly over mtg.
I am looking forward to bloomburrow. But in an age where corporate greed is always brazen and in your face it’s kind of exhausting yo have to deal with it in your favorite game too. It’s just a constant reminder of how every corporation is trying to nickle and dime you.
Just to rip the bandaid off with everything I am unhappy with, I think my main dislikes are Universes Beyond and the higher booster prices in recent years. While I understand many people enjoy Universes Beyond, it just isn't my thing, even if it is for an IP I enjoy. I love the story and settings of magic and I dislike mixing in all these IPs like its Fortnite or something. In recent years booster prices have gotten higher, and its made even worse by play boosters, which make drafting more of an ordeal and buying boxes more of a pain because of the higher price point. And lastly, more of a personal annoyance, I dislike the Omenpaths and lack of planeswalkers in recent sets, but I am hoping it is temporary.
All of that said, I love so many of the sets in recent years. Between Ikoria, Kaldheim, Neon Dynasty, and Phyrexia, there have been draft environments I really enjoy. While many people dislike the flavor of certain sets like Thunder Junction or Karlov Manor, I don't mind it too much, and I really like new planes like Capenna and Arcavios that feel like a step in the new direction. Booster fun, while not my favorite at times, has had some great effects. I personally love how almost every set has a cycle of borderless lands, and theyve been doing a good job at reprinting old cycles where they can like the painlands, shocks, and fastlands. I love seeing some of my favorite characters I've known since their debuts getting attention in the spotlight like Quintorius, Tyvar, Kaito, and Lukka (RIP). Kellan especially, even if I wasnt the biggest fan of his cards, I liked a protagonist whose story I was able to see unfold.
Overall, the past few years have had a lot of good things, and a few things I disliked. I think they made a few bad decisions with Universes Beyond, mtg30, Aftermath, and Play boosters, but I cant complain too much because we are still visiting cool old worlds while introducing new and interesting ones like Bloomburrow (which I cannot wait for) and getting mechanics that make for fun draft emvironments.
Not really.
Can't keep up the releases at this point; power creep feels very real at this point; lack of balancing in most formats; card design feels lifeless (likely due to the rate of releases); lore is a joke.
I've pretty much abandoned all constructed formats--including commander--in favor of limited. MTGA scratches that itch fine, but that's basically all that it offers for me.
Totally disapointed and lost, as a returning player (EDH make me returning).
For background I've started from Tempest to 8th edition, then stopped.
First issue, the proliferation of extensions :
I mean every month there is a new thing coming up. Crossovers are totally out of the lore of the game (Fallout... Jesus). Every new crossover or extension add new one-shot mechanism... (bounties from Thunder, radiations from fallout etc...)
Second issue, proliferation of packaging :
Third issue, artificially pulled up inflation :
Sorry for the bad english, I'm le baguette french guy. Sorry for the bad mood, I love Magic sinc I've started, I love the (new for me) EDH format, much tactical, much longer, much fun !
How the f*** could a normal player can follow the rythm ?
The company doesn’t expect you to- they want you to focus on the bits you play / care about and ignore the rest. That’s definitely a big change from the way people used to interact with Magic, so I see a lot of people having a hard time with it.
What should I buy to upgrade my collection (without selling some organs) ?
Single cards, same as ever! I’m not one of these ‘never ever buy packs’ people, but if you’re specifically looking to upgrade decks singles make far more sense.
Of course I agree and appreciate your point of view about buying singles, but one of the pleasur of Magic as always been the surprises when opening booster !...
Maybe today its more like a gacha, opening without "emotions" and selling valuable cards to buy the one I target...
Maybe the magic of childhood disapeared a bit :'(
The company may not expect players to follow all their products, but players still have to because very few players only play one format nowadays, and all products go into the EDH card pool. On the other hand, people need to know what to buy when picking out cards from all those alternative arts and non-relevant sets on online shop websites.
To be honest, as long as someone plays more than one format (or just plays EDH), they probably need to know most of the cards that will be published, which is time-consuming. In the old days, we only had to look at about 280 cards in one season, but now, we look at about 400 cards, including alternative arts, every two months, and most of them won't really interact with us in our short life.
MtG is becoming painful for anyone who isn't a hardcore enthusiast.
I think it might be becoming painful specifically for hardcore enthusiasts- seems easier for casuals to ignore things. I’m somewhere in between, I think- I draft quite a lot, but barely play any other ways, so most releases don’t mean anything to me. And I don’t even look at spoilers for draft sets- I’m fine to discover the cards when the sets comes out.
all products go into the EDH card pool
Isn’t EDH supposed to be ‘agree your own power level’ / casual? I got the impression that one of its original aims was to get off the competitive treadmill / arms race. If it’s now the biggest source of fomo in the game then something seems to have gone pretty wrong somewhere…
Im not happy about the complexity creep or the power creep.
I have zero interest in un-sets, UB sets, and even Capenna and Thunder Junction feel too much like Universes Beyond: Prohibition Era America and Universes Beyond: Spaghetti Western.
I’m definitely preferring cube play these days.
The complexity creep is horrendous. It feels like there needs to be a New World Order style norm for commons again. We are in an era where many commons require you to google another card just to see what they do, which is atrocious.
As a new to magic, but not new to TCG/CCGs, player I think it’s in a really healthy place. Surprised how many viable formats there are.
Arena got me into a paper. Now I’m playing cube. It’s been an interesting first couple months in.
Commander is in a weird spot imo. It’s hard to find people playing 5-7 decks. Lots of 8-10 regulars at the LGSs.
I haven't bought a card in over a year.
Shit is just too expensive anymore. Too many cards for too much money, I completely stopped caring.
I still like game in the abstract and occasionally play it with friends, but even that is losing it's luster because one of them still buys cards and when you watch him not play a single non-land card under $20 it's just like... okay I guess I lose because I don't have the disposable income you do. It's more about doing something with him than playing the game at that point. I basically check out gameplay-wise most games by turn 3 or 4.
Universes Beyond is shit, and the harder they push it the less interested I find myself in the game.
No i am fucking not.
I am pretty happy with the current state of magic, they keep making sets that I'm either pretty interested, or they make sense that I'm not interested in and I buy less of. Sets that aren't my favorite don't make me upset, I just buy more of this sets I like.
It's not all perfect there, are things I complain about, I'd like to see sol ring banned in Commander. I think it ruins games and I get pretty deflated every time I see it.
I'd like to see people a little bit more concerned with social contracts in Commander, as it seems like even in explicitly casual games, people just want to maximize their win rate. There are 60 card formats for that, I'd like those to see more play in paper so that the people who want to win at any cost can get that energy out there. That is to say, I have a standard deck; it's a janky meme deck and I'd like to be able to play it again maybe more than once per set rotation.
Magic is my favorite hobby, my number one hobby. I think it's at its best when it's a casual kitchen table game, but the opportunities for that seem to be getting more and more rare. It brings me great joy to teach new players because it means I can build janky 60 card kitchen table decks again.
I probably have a few more complaints that aren't coming to mind right now. Overall none of these complaints are enough to dampen how much I enjoy the game on a weekly basis. A few flaws does not make a thing not a great, just because it is not perfect. Overall I'm having a good time and so why would I not like the current state of the game. I'm enjoying myself, and while I could enjoy myself more if they made some minor changes, that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying it now.
No. I loved Modern because it was an external format; now it has become a rotating format because of the power creep. Next to that, the prices of the cards have been raised by over 50% in the last 5 years, and they are printing way more weird editions. I stopped buying cards some time ago (before, I would buy several boxes of every set)
I have no care for secret lair and universes beyond, and the rate of new products and sets coming out is tiring me out. Yes, I am aware i can just skip products and sets, but the point is there is so much coming out at once. Didn't we just have like 4 different spoiler seasons happen at the exact same time? It's exhausting.
I am very happy with the state of EDH despite believing the amount of legendary creatures being created being tenfold its rate a decade ago, but it makes sense.
I, luckily, do not care for modern frame+ foils any more, and especially do not care for alternate, borderless, full art, whatever fancy schmancy bullshit treatment cards are getting, so it doesn't feel like an expensive game to keep up with, save for those glorious retro frame cards that i believe should have never been done away with. Those foils are by far the superior ones to anything in the modern or newer frames.
I just wish that there wasnt so much elitism from 60 card players and wasn't so much "toxic casualness" from the EDH crowd.
Not really.
I wish we did two set blocks to flesh out the worlds, Kaldheim was filled to the brim with 10 unique factions and I can’t name any. Ravnica and Innistraad were loved because we spent time there and explored the world thoroughly. Too many sets and products mean I spend little time with any and don’t create bonds with a set.
I hate that commander is the default instead of a 60 card format. Standard should go back to 2 year rotations. I like playing commander but I loved tuning decks for a meta. But I dislike using ARENA.
I don’t understand why Grand Prix went away, every big magic event I am able to attend, I do, and they seem like they get huge crowds, why we don’t have weekly or bi weekly Grand Prix so that every region gets 1 or 2 a year would be great and WOTC should be running them instead of 3rd party stores.
i miss the pro tour being exciting and the spike goal of 60 card formats.
Too many sets, editions and UB. One UB a Year that’s like the LOTR set would be great, but 12 Jurassic park or Godzilla cards in a set is wierd instead of being a set. I am ambivalent about UB but LOTR was a great iteration. I’m not even a LOTR fan.
I do like most sets since kamigawa forward. I like limited as much as ever. Standard is good, but no one at my 2 lgs plays it, modern has too much change to invest in but has had good moments. Pioneer is good maybe great. Love the diversity and inclusive push. The story was never great but now it seems like an afterthought. I like planeswalkers, why make that something everyone can do? But I’m fine with it. Pauper is good.
I worry about Hasbro, the company seems to be doing poorly outside of WOTC and that the staff was cut instead of grown makes no sense when they(WOTC) are making more than ever. They could also support LGS better.
If I could only do one thing it would be to bring back GPs being regular and often. Even if it was as command fests instead of tournaments though I love the idea of showing up, winning a big event and having PROs who attend regularly. Really miss big events for 60 card formats.
rant over thanks
I’m a newer player (started 3 years ago) but find myself really drawn to the cards and gameplay of yesteryear. My favorite formats are OldSchool, PreModern, Pauper and Legacy. I’m not a fan of the huge amount of product and newer cards, including the universes beyond sets.
But in the end, if all these things bring more players to the game, i’m happy! That means more great people to enjoy this great game with.
Naw, I checked out due to product fatigue, about once a year I look at the 30 sets that came out to see if I want anything for commander.
Honestly, as someone who mainly plays limited and commander I feel great. There is always an interesting environment on the horizon and new cards to build with.
They make too much content now. Power creep is out of control. Cards are way too complex now. They’re really pushing playing with your opponents cards, which I’m not a fan of. This sounds really “old man yells at cloud”.
In aviation, they coined an expression for a common mistake: "chasing your instruments." Often, an amateur aviator will become too reliant on what their aircraft's instruments are telling them and will make bad decisions. So for example, if they're trying to level out their aircraft and their instruments tell them the nose is pointing up, they'll make a sharp correction to try to make the nose of the craft point downward, only for their instruments to tell them that they overcorrected and the nose is now pointing too far downward, so they overcorrect and start climbing again, only for the instruments to tell them ... etc. etc. Instead of following best practices for a level flight trajectory, the amateur is constantly diving and climbing, diving and climbing, as they try to correct for whatever their aircraft's instruments are currently telling them.
This is basically what I feel that WOTC is doing with Magic design. They're following whatever their market research is telling them that players like, which is leading to huge power swings, unanticipated card interactions, and overheated formats where every creature has to be a Swiss army knife that does three valuable things in order to have any impact at all. As a result, card complexity and power creep has spiked and design space is being consumed at a much faster rate than in the past, as R&D works feverishly to "chase their instruments" and deliver what their market research is telling them. They're abandoning solid design principles because the market research tells them that splashy, wild designs sell packs, which has led the game to feel (to me) much more volatile and difficult to follow.
Basically, I worry that WOTC is going to overcorrect in the near future and nosedive their flagship game straight into the ground.
Not at all. Hate the whale hunting, the power creep, the quantity of releases, the diminishing of competitive play, and the way that standard plays. That is, I liked tense draw-go control match-ups like Tog, Trenches, Nether-Go; instants responding to instants, trying to guess what the opponent has left in hand, close games. Now I feel like Magic is much more tap-out style, more cards where you brainlessly derf value onto the board like Omnath or Questing Beast, and there are so many card advantage engines that run away with the game if the opponent doesn't have an answer to it right here and now. Back in the day, if you resolved a Wild Mongrel, you weren't gonna 10-for-1 the opponent if they didn't have an answer. Now, there are tons and tons of card advantage engines, even 1-drops, like Edgewall Innkeeper. Every tiny little advantage that you eek out through skill can be erased by a single card that just drowns you in card advantage.
I would be happier with less sets and much less UB product.
No, it's all commander shit
Not really. I miss standard and people playing other formats besides commander. I stepped away for 10ish years and now my lgs has 50+ people on a Friday but only 8 or so playing 60 card
No. I've been playing since 98, and I haven't bought any real product in years. Constructed has felt terrible since mtg arena (a client I keep forcing myself to try, but I just hate it).
Just play commander these days and we just proxy everything tbh. Wizards greedy and overwhelming product pushing has turned us all off from supporting the game. It's just too much to keep up with.
I genuinely do not know the difference between what is an official card and a proxy/custom creation anymore.
There is too much, it feels too diluted. I don't know what the brand means anymore.
I play older formats occasionally with some friends. We haven't updated decks in a few years.
I'm getting old.
I think the game can still deliver good but it’s layered with more junk and trash than it used to be. Maybe that’s a good thing. More stuff for more different kinds of players? I’m more annoyed by the way they do stuff now but I don’t think it’s unsalvagable
Nah
Last big set I think I actually actively played during was War of the Spark. I was still brewing but barely playitonce a month if that up until Ikoria or Eldrane? I can't remember. Secret lairs and Universe Beyond basically killed what little was keeping me interested.
Since then I started playing the new Digimon cardgame. Traded in a lot of the bulk I swore I'd find spots for in a cube or EDH deck that was never going to happen, and I've been having a lot more fun. Still have a sentimental attachment to a lot of my Magic cards, but really I should pawn off my Angus and Bayou and whatever else is still worth anything...
Truthfully, not really. I think they have oversaturated the market with mechanics that are too set specific, which makes it more difficult; not impossible mind, but definitely more difficult, to synergize with cards from other sets.
No, is why I sold almost whole ~$10k collection. I despise:
hyperproduction of products EDH taking over everything Universes Beyond new design principle where cards have to do everything and also trigger of themselves doing everything
I still play occasionally but like 5-10% of how much I used.
Yes very. Thanks to magic 30 proxies are normalized. At my lgs proxies are now fully accepted and the greatest gift wotc could have given
Im not happy with the insane focus on commander at the expense of everything else
Im not happy with the absolutely ludicrous decrease of cardstock quality and utter lack of QA
Im not happy with UB pissing away well over 2 decades of hard work establishing an unique IP
Im not happy with power creep destroying the value of cards at blazing fast speeds
Im indiferent to product bloat
Im indiferent to the death of competitive magic and the extreme fortnite-ification of the game
Im indiferent to digital eating away at paper slowly but steadily
Im pretty happy that proxies have gone from socially frowned upon to practically universally welcomed and even encouraged
in general Im fairly down on mtg, but at the same time Im doing more than ever while spending less than ever, so I feel I shouldnt complain much
Positives:
Magic is super fun. It's literally my favorite hobby
Commander is super fun. Mostly play through Spelltable or with my friends. Brewing decks is a fun exercise
Arena's great, although I haven't done it in a bit
Cracking packs is fun. Ignoring the price, Play Boosters are great.
Prereleases are fun and low pressure. I love going to them with my brothers
Jamming drafts is a lot of fun
Love all the different content creators. There's always something to watch
Major Negative: The price
I feel like I'm locked out of most formats because of the price.
A commander deck is 100 cards. When a lot of the cards you want to play are $2+, that really adds up. My cutoff is usually $5. A $10 card feels worse than a $40 card, but they're both frustrating.
Arena's economy sucks. Either grinding big or spending big. MTGO is also ridiculous
I will never buy a play booster outside of draft b/c they're $6+
It sucked seeing prereleases go up by $5 then another $5 with the switch to Play Boosters. $30 for Lost Caverns, $35 for Murders, $40 for Outlaws. Add another $5 if I want to play at Pandemonium over Comicazi
Haven't done an in person draft since the switch to play boosters
Minor negatives:
I'm unironically still mad about the Pinkertons
Magic twitter has a toxically progressive subset. Magic also has a toxically regressive bunch, but they're pretty segregated.
Universes Beyond without a Universes Within bothers me
Curled foils
Cards that are bad in limited being in limited pools
Secret Lairs not coming with 4 copies of the cards
I don't have as much fun playing it as I used to
Nope, the product flood, secret lairs and wokeness was enough to make me switch to the digimon Tcg and I couldn’t be happier I switched, this game is amazing
i am pretty significantly displeased with things like the explosion of universes beyond, the shift towards more expensive/predatory product, treating edh like the only format worth designing for, and declining print quality.
that being said i still really love magic and think it is the best card game on the market. wotc is just trying really hard to change my mind on that.
Kinda wish modern wasn't a rotating format, as that's why I got into it like 10 years ago, but here we are, on the cusp of MH3.
I see the game adopting all the same "short term revenue positive, long term brand damaging" tactics of other entertainment franchises.
So while design and R&D has never been better, corporate leadership and stewardship of the game has never been worse.
Idk the power creep feels crazy. Every new set feels like it has a new “must add” or a staple. Like roaming throne is 4 mana, ward 2, do most commander abilities (or even more if tribal) again. Aragorn the uniter is a 4 mana 5/5 with “play anything to do a billion things” the one ring, orcish bow masters, it’s just a lot. Cool as hell cards, but feels a touch overbearing to keep up with.
No. I don't like how Magic has handled MTG in the past years. Card quality has gone worse while not only rising prices but also releasing more products as well, and I don't like the excessive focus of Commander. All formats except for Pauper are monetarily restrictive, and Wizards does next to nothing to solve it.
No, I am not. I sit down at a random EDH table and I don't know half the cards being played because there were 3 new Commander and Universe Beyond sets. Almost every new Commander builds itself, you have to put restrictions on your deckbuilding to make it interesting. I love drafting and I love it as a social event at my LGS. Some younger people don't come anymore because they finally can't afford at least since the Play Booster markup. Or they don't come because Play Booster are shit. I am not even talking about three rare bombs in one booster, there are people who like/ don't mind that as long as the removal is good. I am talking about the colour distribution in the packs. Every pack is like a Set Booster. OTJ is a fun Set, but the draft is crap because of the Play Boosters. I guess we didn't see it that much in MKM because of the hybrid mana in many cards. I dread MH3. Not because I still play modern, but because in the last year we built a healthy pauper community at our LGS and seeing how MH2 and some downshifts in Master Sets impacted Pauper, I do worry they at some time 'kill' Pauper with a Set like MH3, like modern became MH2 before LOTR.
I love this game. I didn't go to three Prereleases in the last year so, the 10 years before that I went to every single one, every day. I don't know how long I will play it how I do now. A lot of us in my friendgroup are building cubes now because we are fed up.
Fuck the higher ups at WOTC.
Not great. I've been putting it at a 5 in recent surveys, as opposed to the 9s and 10s I used to give it. I have two main concerns:
Power creep - MaRo once listed this as one of the things that could kill Magic, and thus should be constantly monitored. They're not doing that at all. A certain amount is inevitable, of course, but just comparing cards printed in the last year or so to cards printed five years ago, you can see the vast difference in power levels. There are cards that were staples in Modern 6 or 7 years ago that wouldn't even see play in Standard right now. It's particularly bad in Modern, which I used to play every week, but have now been priced out of because the MH sets force-rotate what used to be a non-rotating format and I can't keep up.
Related, I just don't like the direction Magic design has been going. I feel that they do "stapler" design these days, by which I mean that instead of designing solid cards that are interesting and stand on their own, they just start with pushed stats and then staple keywords, effects, or kicker costs onto the card until it's very powerful. That leads to word soup cards that are difficult to parse, especially for new players...in the worst cases (e.g. Questing Beast), players forget about some of the abilities because there are so many.
I think there are two reasons why this is happening:
A. Design space is finite. There probably are legitimately fewer simple, elegant designs left. So they have to get wordy to make an impactful card. This is reasonable.
B. What's less reasonable is the Commander factor. They make more cards Legendary for Commander, and I think there's then a push to make every Legend do everything so that it's a fun Commander. They do less build-arounds and more do-everythings. It used to be that you'd have a Commander that, say, triggered off sacrifices; you'd then have to build your deck in a way that would enable you to sac things a lot. Now, they just build that sac outlet into the Commander (and probably work in "draw a card" somewhere too, for reasons). And maybe that's good for Commander, but it's often awful when those cards work their way into 60-card decks.
It's way too expensive.
Otherwise I'm having a good time.
I almost exclusively play MTGA, and almost exclusively Standard.
I don't have much to compare the game to other than other online games, and as someone that has really only played Slay the Spire as a (somewhat) comparative card game, I don't know if this qualifies me to have much of an opinion.
However, speaking towards Arena, and Arena alone, I'm not quite happy with the state of the game.
Compared to many other games (e.g. CSGO, LOL, Overwatch), there is an oddly high buy-in to be competitive in this game, either in time or in cash. You either have to:
Grind Monored or some other budget, netdecked, "solved" archetype in order to efficiently draft for rares, or play an archetype you "enjoy" and spend the better part of a 40-hour work week finishing your daily wins. When players on /r/MagicArena are recommending you just scoop as monored on the draw for the sake of efficiency , or players often recommend you run multiple accounts to be able to draft, that seems to indicate a problem with the incentive structure of the game.
Cough up a serious amount of money for packs/drafts/rare bundles. While it's certainly less than you'd have to for paper (or so I've heard), is is a ludicrously expensive rate to sell power/gameplay in an online game.
Have god-like experience and brewing skill to be able to counterbuild/counterplay the current meta with a minimal amount of rares/money
The power difference between a good card and a bad card is hilariously huge, even among rares. In my opinion, it's one of the sole reasons why netdecking is so important if you want to compete. Having a good idea on how to play is often completely trumped by just having the "good stuff", especially around the middle part of the bell curve of skill. It comes with the additional drawback of "good" rares costing the same as "bad" ones. This punishes creativity and brewing, as it incentivizes spending your wildcards on the "essential" rares first. In paper, I'd imagine you see far fewer Sheoldred the Apocalypses due to the high price point of >$300 for a full playset.
Earning cards via something like standard events either requires an optimized (usually net)deck, or a crazy amount of skill/meta knowledge, in either case, you probably don't really need the rewards if you have the cards or the skill. There's not really an incentive to play events casually, because of how "winner takes all" the reward structure is, which further incentivizes non-casual play in them, which creates a feedback loop of meta-enforcement and tryhardism that makes them an overall unattractive queue for 90% of players, and a queue that offers essentially nothing in rewards to most of the other 10% who either bought the full set already, or can "make do" with any collection of cards. Playing for 3 wins before 3 losses (which is more often than not less than a 50% win rate, realistically) to not even get your money back, even considering the pack you get, makes these events really not worth most players' time. I'd much rather have a pauper or singleton constructed queue in their place. I would LOVE to play events, but in their current state, and as a f2p mid-level player, I would just be burning my gold/gems by queuing up.
The mastery pass is reliant on FOMO (which I'm convinced is a literal evil level of psychological manipulation), and really unhealthy for players as it incentivizes constant engagement or else you lose items you've already paid for. It causes burnout and foments addictive tendencies in players. Additionally, it bundles cosmetics with cards (power), and I'd wager a majority of players would prefer to just get more cards/packs rather than another pet or card sleeve they wont use.
Lack of chat as an opt-in feels really bad. Sometimes you want to call your opponent a tryhard virgin for getting a perfect monored curve out, and sometimes you want to congratulate and make friends with your opponent after he pulls off a really interesting and creative combo. Thin-skinned players should be free to opt out (even if it's the default).
I love this game. It's a really great game. But the design of Arena (and a bit of the overall set balance, though I'm not sure if that's a recent phenomenon) really seems to want to destroy my motivation to play it.
Oh and one more bonus note - Assassin's Creed and Fallout sets, etc. not being on arena is crushing. Why the video-game themed sets are not on the literal video game version of MTG is hilariously puzzling.
As someone who got into magic just 5 years ago I think the game is basically the best it has been since I started playing. When I started the game the formats I watched were edh, which is still about as good as your playgroup imo, Modern, which was dominated by linear decks like dredge/hollow one/phoenix, and Standard to a lesser extent, which would be solid, but still about as good as it is now imo. Prices on the game are still insanely high, but what is highly priced has just moved from the old staples to the new. I have also played some old formats and if I am being honest, I think a lot of people look back on those through rose tinted glasses, the gameplay does not hold up well to modern standards.
As a long term tournament grinder and limited player(standard limited and cube) - commander offers nothing for me. I have tried to enjoy it with friends, since in my area if I want to play tabletop magic, commander is the only option, however it fundamentally lacks things that initially attracted me to magic.
My feelings about commander coupled with the fact that wizards seems to print cards into standard sets and modern horizon sets that are clearly commander cards, is another part of the problem.
When shops closed down during Covid and the main way for people to play the game was commander games at each others house, sanctioned tournament play died, and so did my love for the game.
🤷♂️... because
The cards themselves feel much lower quality recently (last 5 years idk, I got back into it last year)
No, they banned my deck lol
What is the "current state of modern"?
Grief is killing the game for me ngl. Play legacy and modern and i just cannot escape the scam.
I dont mind losing but i would like to play the game at least.
No. We haven't revised Alara, and they haven't given my favorite lore character a card :(
I started with New Cappenna, my first love. It was fairly reasonable to crack a set box. Now it's way too expensive.
No, universes beyond ruined modern and legacy for me. I'm excited for mh3 but the vibe of magic is forever ruined with different IPs being anything but commander legal
Game is better then ever. More players, more cards, and more formats to play.
I hate the pop culture crossovers, I think the set oversaturation is resulting in more half-baked ideas ending up released, and the vorthos in me is basically just dead. The core mechanics are engaging and basically always will be, but the past 4-ish years have def made me.less engaged with the game as a whole.
Magic over all is in a good state.
The game is still going strong, there's several formats that are getting attention, there has been now 2 successful transitions into the online space, and we are no longer in the period of every set breaks a format. (I can not wait for me to eat my words when MH3 inevitably breaks something, then Bloomburrow somehow breaks something) The playerbase is in a state of doom and gloom, which for magic means nothing is out of the ordinary, and magic content creation is thriving better than ever.
My only worry is on the executive side, considering how Hasbro and WotC have been the past few years. Thankfully, Magic has gotten through relatively easy (RIP DnD), and as long as figures like Maro still remain in the Magic office, then I am confident the game will continue chugging along.
Here's to another 30 odd years of chaos, weird cards, controversial rules changes, and shenanigans!
I’d like them to go back to a few sets a year , like when we had blocks . I feel like I can’t get hyped about new sets because by time I’m excited for this current set coming out I’m already seeing stuff for the next one
They are just trying to get money... Since they sold out to Hasbro at least.
As a long time player I feel really bad about UB.
I quite like how Magic is! Honestly, I wasn't sure about it when I first got into it around pandemic time, but I find myself getting excited about the cards and sets coming out. There's always something new and interesting to see, and as my friend group expands from more and more new players entering the game, MtG becomes something I actively look forward to. It's not really about the game anymore - it's more about hanging out and doing stupid crap with the weird decks we brew up.
I'm mostly pleased with it, with some nagging things in the back of my mind: releases being too frequent, card variants being so varied (which wouldn't be as much of a problem with fewer releases a year), the story is... mostly getting better with generally better writers being around, which is nice, card quality... that's taken a dive in at least NA, and I'm very disappointed in that, even with the advent of etched foils (which I do genuinely like, though some cards are worse for it, especially anything with flames in the art).
It depends on how bad my favorite deck is after MH3