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I absolutely do not think we are too quick to throw out the word toxic. In my experience, with how many relationships I've been asked to evaluate and give advice on, and just hearing people's stories, too many relationships are toxic and won't admit it.
I get the impression that many people seem to be expecting everything to "just work" and be easy, completely disregarding their grandparents that have been married for 50+ years saying things like "it takes dialogue, hard work, and compromise". Sure, there are plenty of reasonable boundaries/red flags that fully justify letting go and moving on but it seems like the concept of attempting to talk about and work on things first is increasingly rare.
One of the most useful things my grandparents ever said was "don't go to bed upset, figure it out and apologize before you go to sleep", sleeping easy is a subtle thing with far reaching impacts.
Toxic to me is all the things you've described, gaslighting, abuse, manipulation etc, not sure why they're excluded. All relationships have problems, but if your relationship is majority problems and fundamental disagreements that's also affecting your emotional, physical, mental, financial well being, that's toxic.
I'm personally not a fan of people idealizing relationships formed in the past as idyllic love stories. These days we're more aware that many people stayed together in unhealthy dynamics for all kinds of reasons that weren't always wise or the right choice, and we have more openness now about mental health as well as for women having more rights and choices instead of just staying stuck in bad relationships because you're dependent. My parents have a toxic relationship and a large part of my therapy as an adult is unlearning and trying to heal from being in a home with that and the negative things I thought were normal in relationships because that's what I saw and ended up replicating subconsciously in adulthood.
The only people we should love unconditionally are our children. Romantic relationships have conditions. They are voluntary and not servitude. They require two people willing to grow and to do right by each other and it should enhance your life. If it isn't, it's not a cop out to decide it's not for you. I left a 6 year emotionally abusive relationship with a partner who constantly tried to claim I wasn't committed because I wasn't willing to just love them and stay together no matter the horrible things they did. They genuinely thought that once in a relationship you should just lose all boundaries and self worth and accept whatever. And for a while I did try to prove my commitment before I wised up and realized that was bullshit.
It's also perfectly okay for relationships to end. Everything in life has an end. Relationships are no different. Most adults will have more than one significant relationship in their life. I don't think it's always a case of just looking for greener grass or dropping people at the first sign of problems. Have you ever met someone in a toxic relationship?. As someone who has been in one, know others who have and am part of subs with people discussing this, it's actually the opposite that people run, it's usually that they stay and hold on and wish for change and try to fix it and continue year after year.
They often get isolated and lose friends because of this as they start hiding the reality of their relationship from everyone because they know it's not normal or because they don't want people to point out it's not okay as they aren't ready to accept that so they distance themselves. Or their friends and family don't want to watch them continue to complain and make the same harmful choices so they distance themselves from them.
People also do this with situationships where no matter how much it's clear it's not on the same page and even when others point it out, they just get defensive and say you don't understand and continue with it. I've been that person too. So I personally think it's over sold that people generally give up easy, I find that people need to let a dead horse go more quickly and they find it incredibly hard to do when attached, so I commend people whose self worth is such that they'd rather leave or be alone than stay in bad situations just to not be alone and keep trying to look at it with rose-tinted glasses.
A lot of these buzzwords are used by people who refuse to take responsibility for their own issues in relationships and/or people who cannot handle basic incompatibilities or rejection. Easier to toss around words they have only a cursory understanding of and take all the focus on what they might, or might not be bringing to the table.
I wish more people could recognize immaturity, poor communication, or two people simply not being on the same page. Then I think they'd use the word toxic a whole lot less.
I think people are slowly learning what they should and should not be tolerating in love and trying to sort out their own shit. What a lot of people don’t fully realize is that there doesn’t need to be a “bad guy” in break ups. No one needs to be toxic per se, there can be healthy and unhealthy situations, lack of communication, lack of understanding your needs and the needs of others that lead to unmet needs or expectations. There’s a lot more nuance in this than I think people are really taught.
Yeah I agree. Many people find it too difficult to move on without the scapegoat of "bad guy". Accepting you weren't right for them and accepting they weren't right for you are two very different acceptances. It's too hard to accept the end when they're still a lovely person and did nothing wrong, low-key still wanna be together.
Words like toxic, controlling, manipulation, have become overused these days. Basically it's become "anything I disagree with" is toxic, controlling, manipulativr behavior. No that's not how it works.
I think there's definitely some truth to this. The word toxic has really lost its meaning in the context of relationships. Common/general failings to put in the necessary work in relationships coupled with the grass is greener syndrome of the digital era is clouding the true meaning of relationships and what it takes to make things work between 2 people.
The grass is only greener where you water it.
Love is analog. Toxic is digital.
Actually the person calling everything and everybody is the toxic one, saying someone is toxic is a pet word of my SIL, she is the toxic one, not happy unless she stirring the shitpot
I don’t think so.
For me, a toxic relationship is one that is actively harmful for both people- it is one that denigrates mutually, limits the personal potential of both and is destructive to the mental and/or physical health of both parties.
Just because you don’t love all of someone, it does not mean it’s a toxic relationship, it probably means you have to see if the things you don’t love about the other should be examined and determined whether they are toxic traits or things that are damaging to you or the relationship. If so, the relationship should not exist to begin with.
Not wanting to face struggles together might come down to how invested both parties are in each other and the relationship, and whether the feelings are mutual.
Having a pattern of not wanting to commit to relationships may be a sign of attachment issues.
A toxic relationship usually consists of remaining in and feeding into a relationship environment that creates and fosters what you described as “inexcusable behavior”.
Also, not wanting to put in the effort and moving on isn’t exactly toxic if you’re upfront about it, but insisting on sticking around someone who’s shown or said that they don’t want to be in or proactively work on a relationship is definitely toxic.
No. Because if it was just "lack resilience" people would break up. What's toxic is when people try to force staying together when one or both is unhappy, just to "win."
They think that. They’re wrong. They’re really just trying not to lose. Any activity you approach with that mindset is in a very strong feedback loop. You almost lose, so you sacrifice, that seems to make things better, so you go back to not losing. You never ‘win’.
Any activity, however, that you approach with win-win, is a different beast. You almost lose, so you sacrifice, that seems to make things better, but was that enough? Did they win, too? How can the partnership win? So you go back to winning. You never ‘lose’, you get older and wiser, and if the people you love are lucky, you get kinder, too.
Okay, but the solution is to remove as much coercion by individuals and society for couples to stay together, so there is no negative consequence to breaking up if either person is unhappy, so people only are together if both people truly want to be.
It’s inefficient to apply an external solution to an interior issue. I agree completely that coercion must be removed. I’m concerned that there needs to be a second prong to ‘the’ solution. One that addresses our hearts’ tendency to do as we’ve seen done. There’s natural, unavoidable, consequences to both loving and letting go. In addition to removing the coerciveness, we need to encourage bravery, because they will need to do the hard work. Letting go, even under normal circumstances, requires the courage to look at ourselves not as we want to be, but as we are.
Toxic is anyone whose actions or words chronically diminish you. Slowly break you down or inspire self destructive behaviour. There are endless ways a person can be toxic.
In my eyes, toxicity comes from being disturbed...
But in all seriousness, there's bad and harmful behaviour, but it becomes toxic when someone is unwilling to change or take responsibility. People hurt each other in relationships all the time. The wounds become toxic when nothing is done about them.
Thats how I see it.
Everyone has different definitions.
Toxic to me is when it's doing harm, physically emotionally or mentally.
Unconditional would be loving someone for exactly who they are and loving them more than their flaws.
Yes, in my experience, people are too quick to move on and throw away what could have been over stupid reasons. It's easier to find someone new and have constant honeymoon phases then ride out storms and fixing the root cause of issues.
“No. Not more powerful. Quicker. More seductive. Beware the dark side. Once you tread down that path, forever will it dominate your destiny.”
Toxic has turned into a replacement for "my feelings are hurt"
To me, Toxic love=bad and scary Unconditional love=amazing and rare
I do think like you said, baring bad behaviors, that we are getting too quick to give up on relationships where issues could be addressed with communication and some grace.
So lack of resilience breeds lack of resilience? Understood, avoid unless platonic...
The definition of toxic in a relationship is really subjective because what someone may think is toxic in regards to your relationship-you may both love. If you’re both agreeing in the relationship, then what’s toxic about it?
🤷🏻♀️
Things can be mutually consensual and still be bad for you. There are women who approve of domestic violence.
Ya that’s a good point.
But when you’re not in that relationship who are you to say otherwise?
Who am I to say otherwise?
Ppl like some traditionally messed up shit you know that.
No. You’ll never have words be perfectly infallible. In fact “toxic” people can occasionally label other people “toxic”.. and it’s just the way life goes sometimes. The problem isn’t with the word and the concept, it’s with the user.
Toxic also means different things to different people. What’s one persons limit is another persons tolerable range. That’s ok too.
If we feel our partner or loved one is toxic, there’s clearly at the very least an incompatibility of values and being. And we shouldn’t be in a relationship
To me, toxic==disfunctional AND disruptive.
To people I talk with, toxic==directly abusive or controlling
They're not the same. I'm used to the second definition because people always call someone else toxic when that person treats them badly or doesn't give them what they want
To me, toxic is also (and mostly) about self desruptive behaviours to yourself. When I say my first gf was toxic I'm meaning the relationship was extremely hard because she couldn't face arguments, couldn't debate, and saw me as some kind of ruler or enemy in reflection to her previous experience with a damned rapist. She never assaulted or attacked me, I don't hate her and I didn't hate her at the time, but it simply could not work
Nope. Toxicity bring stress and unhappiness with no resolve. Normal relationship problems, between two people that actually gaf about the relationship, are worked through and resolved.
This post alone is 🚩🚩🚩
Nah, toxic isn’t that at all. Toxic relationships have been a thing for generations. Divorce was just now allowed and you needed to get married very young. The old boomer jokes of hating your wife/husband comes from all those toxic relationships. Many aren’t abusive they just aren’t healthy from both sides.
You can have unconditional love but still need condition for a relationship. My bf knows my deal breakers and I know his. I would still love him if he had one but the relationship would be over because you need to respect your own boundaries and needs.
Exactly.
Every time the older generations talk about things being better or issues not existing in the past, it's usually survivorship bias.
Pretty much! My grandmother and her friends are pretty honest with their experiences and I can tell you, it wasn’t a fun time.
For me it's more how inexcusable behavior is taken and boundaries are set. If I publicly state what crosses the line as unacceptable and it I'd crossed that's toxic is it not, and by me staying and letting emotions make a bug deal of it I in myself became toxic so yk you can't just lay lines in the sand love is so complex people get shattered in so many ways but love is a source of healing as much as pain and someone can heal the small Knicks and bruises they'll put you through and in some capacities mend broken parts of ourselves from other loves whether family upbringing or past loves
I just wish everyone the best even if what was is or had been toxic you loved that person for a reason whether you were bad for one another in the end love is something I think endures for someone beyond love of the flesh and soul and not in any religious capacity
🧡💜👋 Best of luck lovers and losers alike I just stay creepin
Not one and the same.
I don’t know if it’s a matter of resiliency, or loving someone despite their faults. I also definitely don’t agree that people are pickier with their long term partners these days and statistics bear that out. Why that is would be a whole different thread, probably in a different sub though so I’ll table that bit.
One thing I definitely DO see is people throwing around phrases like “we were just really toxic” (far more commonly than he/she was toxic) when they really just mean “we really weren’t working out and probably should have broken up a while ago”. People have a hard time changing their ways, and often a relationship just being generally unfulfilling or not worth the time and energy being invested in it is not sufficiently motivating to get someone to take decisive action, so it’s not uncommon to make it out to be worse than it is.
Another way this can come about is that the person has had the “what happened” discussion several times with several different people already and is sick of explaining themselves. In cases like that “toxic” makes a pretty good wedge. It’s common and vague enough that at this point it doesn’t spark alarm, but serious enough that it silences further interrogation.
That does kind of speak to the only real problem I can see. If the word has been so thoroughly neutered by now, it becomes just that little bit harder to talk about actually toxic behavior in a relationship.
In a relationship standpoint, men can not be loved unconditionally because if he can not provide, he becomes useless to the woman, and she'll have no choice but to seek out that reliability elsewhere. We're all just another form of animal on this planet. Men are just just lucky women don't eat them on the way out the door.
Women are 6 times more likely to be divorced or separated after a cancer diagnosis than men. Men aren’t a beacon of unconditional love lol
that’s ridiculous. the only unconditional love is parent to child, and humans to animals. all other love is conditional on any number of things but mostly respect, communication, consideration and other things along those lines. men are so concerned with ‘providing’ money and etc that they regularly dont do any of these. yes there are awful selfish women that exist obviously but it’s usually lack of the other things that make women leave in the end
In all fairness, though, the same can be said the other way around in both of our statements.
"Is toxic just a byword for lack of resilience in love?"
Toxic love = Conditional love. It's not so much a lack of resilience, it's a lack of focus and understanding how emotions work and where they come from.
Most people believe their emotions come from other people, and that limiting belief is the cause of conditional love.
When you remember that your emotions come from your thoughts, then you empower yourself to let everyone off the hook for how you feel, and you make it easier to accept and appreciate people as they are.
- Conditional love = You give love so you can receive it (i.e. relationships are transactional; love quid pro quo).
- Unconditional love = You give love because it feels better.
When you make your love conditional, you’re setting yourself up for heartbreak, because you have strings attached and essentially hold other people emotionally hostage: “I’ll love you, if you love me. But if you don’t, then I’ll be upset.”
You place impossible expectations on them to behave only in ways you want, so you can feel better. You want to control them as a roundabout and ineffective way of controlling your emotions. (And to be fair, if you have that expectation of them, they probably have the same for you.) So then they push back to control you, so they can feel better. And then you push back for them pushing back... and that's what creates arguments.
Anger is helpful guidance and a natural response to feeling powerless (i.e. sad, rejected, afraid, etc.). Also, you don't feel safe and supported.
If you feel powerless and get angry for relief, but then express your anger towards others, it makes other people feel powerless from you. So then they reach for anger for relief and judge you for your anger (this is what creates arguments). But, their anger makes you feel powerless again… so you reach for relief again… and thus everyone involved is stuck in a cycle of those two emotions:
- Powerless → Angry → Powerless → Angry
.
You feeling loved in the relationship is your job; not theirs.
The other person can’t make you feel loved because they can’t control your thoughts. Which means, the opposite is also true — They didn’t break your heart. You did it to yourself, and gave them the credit.
You don’t want giving love to be contingent on whether or not you receive it. Not to mention the simple fact that you can’t control if, when, or how much someone loves you. But you can control the love you give.
If you feel bad when you love someone, you’re focused on lack; not love. Love feels good. Lack feels wack.
It’s natural for you to love. You are love. And when you hold back your true nature, you feel worse.
Unconditional love says, “I’m going to love because it feels better to flow love than bottle it up. You just also happen to benefit from it. But I’m loving you for my own satisfaction.”
i dont agree that conditional love = transactional love. love is being used as a synonym for relationships in this post so i will do the same. love is nearly always conditional on people treating each other reciprocally. if i treat my loved ones with kindness and compassion, its not a transaction for me to expect them to treat me the same. love is conditional on the people treating each other with care and respect
"I don't agree that conditional love = transactional love."
"Love is nearly always conditional on people treating each other reciprocally. If I treat my loved ones with kindness and compassion, it's not a transaction for me to expect them to treat me the same. Love is conditional on the people treating each other with care and respect."
I agree, and I appreciate your thoughts. To clarify my perspective:
- Conditional love = Transactional (you only give because you expect something in return).
- Unconditional love = Reciprocal (you both give because you care about one another).
you just restated what was in your original comment 😅. it doesnt clarify anything about your perspective
I believe in trusting people's actions. If someone's partner is lying to them, being emotionally or physically distant, those are perfectly acceptable reasons to feel unloved.
I know my boyfriend doesn't love me. I know he cares about me. There is a difference. And it's not just on the recipient to FEEL loved or cared about. It's on the provider to give them reason and not pause for concern. Classic love languages.
Toxic love to me means manipulation cycles, coercive behaviours, and essentially trauma bonding.
Exiting a relationship because two people are not right for eachother is not an example of toxic love. It's an example of self care.
"Exiting a relationship because two people are not right for each other is not an example of toxic love. It's an example of self-care."
I agree.
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"If someone's partner is lying to them, being emotionally or physically distant, those are perfectly acceptable reasons to feel unloved."
Those are normal and understandable reasons to feel unloved, but you don't have to feel unloved. You can still feel loved, and work on the relationship or exit the relationship because you recognize your preferences of wanting a partner who is truthful, and emotionally and physically close.
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"It's not just on the recipient to FEEL loved or cared about. It's on the provider to give them reason and not pause for concern."
I agree that in mutually satisfying and supportive relationships each person provides reasons to show their affection. Your needs are valid, and you deserve to be loved.
However, the issue is if you need something, and they don't give it, and then you blame them for why you feel upset.
If you place the responsibility of your emotions on others for you to feel loved, then you disempower yourself. Because there are a lot of relationships where people are loving the other person, but if they don't love themselves, they can't receive it. Which means, someone can love you with all of their heart, but if you don't believe it, or are afraid to receive it, then you don't feel loved by them. And it's not because the other person didn't love you, it's because you didn't love yourself. You can only fully receive from others what you give to yourself.
When you give love to yourself and not need your partner to change for you to feel better (it also helps to pick a partner who's compatible), and you don't need a relationship, but you want a relationship, then you allow more fulfilling and satisfying unconditional love to flow between the two of you, more than you ever could have imagined.
Oh another give it to yourself coach🙄
This
Imo toxic is thrown around too much, because most relationship issues are due to mismatch compatibility and ability to adapt.
Plus toxic is subjective to an individual. I’ve been labeled toxic but only by an abuser. A few people even believed her until I gave the evidence. They never did apologize for that misread tho.
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