personally i find characters who are hard to play always the most fun. Though theres one character i cant seem to play right at all and that character is nidalee. Does anyone have characters they just cant learn no matter how hard they try?
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Gangplank is the only correct answer to this question. He's the hardest champion in the game. No character comes close.
He's incredibly strong too. A good Gangplank will make you wonder why he's not pick-or-ban. Then you first time him, go 0/12, and gain a bit of respect for the Gangplank you see next year that can pentakill your team.
He's hard but defo not the hardest, you need like 400k on Riven just to start being decent on her, more mechanics than any other champ in the game. There are still things being discovered or Riven as soon as this last year the S combo was found.
Then there's Fiora, Vel and probably objectively the hardest champ in the game, Ezreal.
Edit: When I mean difficulty I mean skill ceiling, obviously Ezreal is one of the safest adc in the game, yet it's near impossible to play him at full potential
You said objectively, but you meant subjectively. Objective = fact, subjective = opinion.
Considering he pointed to data (winrate by mastery) objectively was the correct word for him to use.
That is incorrect. He pointed to mastery in terms of playing Riven, not Ezreal. Also, there's no true way to compare mastery level between champs to discern their difficulty on a 1 to 1 scale, so it's subjective regardless.
Being incorrect and being subjective are two different things. I agree that you can't compare mastery 1 to 1, but that doesn't mean that it's not objective to look at winrate by mastery, It's just wrong.
And sure maybe he only means mastery in reference to Riven and no one else, but being good faith, I would assume the same standard is being used across the board.
You're arguing something that isn't taking place. Objective was the incorrect term, subjective was the correct term. Arguing that "subjective" and "incorrect" are two different words is...useless? In this context anyhow. It's pretty cut and dry, not sure why you're trying so hard, perhaps you're confused?
A subjective opinion can still align with objective facts, just like a square can be a rectangle, but objective facts cannot be subjective opinions, just like a rectangle cannot be a square. So when someone uses an opinion to state a fact their subjective viewpoint can be an objective one, too, but only if the facts line up. Since we can't definitively measure and confirm that Ezreal is factually (objectively) the most difficult champion to master it means anyone holding that opinion does so subjectively, and not objectively. Does that make sense?
It's a thirty second comment?
Idk dude, I'm just pointing out a weird mistake people make all the time, calling stuff subjective when they just want to say wrong.
When someone believes that they are making a statement or holding a position because the data points that way, which the original comments seems to, then that's objective. It can be wrong, as in the original comment, but that's not what subjectivity is. Subjectivity doesn't just mean "not objectively correct"
You're still not getting it. Subjective means open to debate because it is not based on hard proven facts. Objective, however, is based on hard proven facts. It's not a hard thing to differentiate.
Yes the person made a mistake by using the incorrect terminology, and I'm not demonizing them or you for your confusion, I'm just straightening out the details.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you or they or anyone else understands it, I was just stating the proper terminology so it's out there for anyone to grasp who might not have known the difference. It's just information at this point, so don't twist yourself up over it.
I think you don't quite get it. This is exactly the misunderstanding of those words that I'm trying to point out.
Subjectivity refers to something about which there are no relevant facts at all. For example your favourite colour is just something you feel. I can't sit down and through rhetoric 'prove' that your favourite colour is red. Your favourite colour is just whatever you feel like it is.
Objectivity refers to dealing with facts to advance positions. You do not have to be correct to be making an objective argument. You just have to have an argument based in facts (and be therefore disprovable in a debate).
You can't debate subjective positions. They're definitionally not open to debate, because it's just describing a personal response to the thing. If you're debating it, then you're dealing with objective arguments.
Again, "objective" does not mean "proven correct" it just means "dealing with verifiable facts/data" while "subjective" means "dealing with emotional/personal responses"
Maybe it's a hot take, but Fiora is not that extremely hard. I mean, you can stat check most toplaners by hitting 1/2 vitals, and using AA and E. Her W and R are the hard part, but she doesn't need to dodge CC with her W to win most trades and she can proc her R slowly just with the bonus MS and Qs.
Though I agree that she has one of the top 5 highest skill ceilings in the game with her <1 sec R proc combos and W timings.
Same for Vel'Koz, his difficulty skyrockets because of his Q angles (with its weird mana refund mechanic) and because he doesn't really have much impact in deciding games, everything else about him is not very hard and can be learnt in about 10-20 games.
Fiora and Riven are both relatively easy to play and hard to master. Vel is a default mage without any hard difficulty aside from his Q, which takes some time to get used to. Ezreal? Really? That is the Adc you pick when you can't play Adc or get filled.
Gangplank, Nidalee and Azir are definitely in the top 5 most difficult champs to play AND master, all three have no skill ceiling and can't be perfected.
no. Riven is way, way, way, harder than Fiora. people that think Riven is as easy as fiora or in the same stratosphere do not comprehend or know what animation canceling is
Yes, Ezreal, the ADC people pick when autofilled and solo lose the game bcs they hit 3Qs per teamfight.
You are confusing high skill floor with difficulty, these champs are hard to get into, but Azir for example is not really that hard once you get used to the soldier gimmick.
You can play Ezreal for thousands of games and still have a lot to improve on him, if we regard "difficulty" as "Playing a champion at max potential" then I think Ezreal is 100% the most difficult champ in the game.
The difference between regular Ezreal and Ezreal OTP dps is nuts.
Ez looks ez but when people pick him they deal 0 dmg
Looking at stats indicates the opposite in most of these cases.
Fiora, Riven and Vel all have late dips in winrate as mastery rises passed the end of charting, indicating that the more you practise the champion, the worse you perform in actual games. Which indicates that even with 80+ games, people are still discovering and then trying out new mechanics and figuring these champions kits out, which would meaning that these champion's ceilings are still not known.
Whereas Gangplank, Nidalee and Azir (and Ez to be fair) all have winrates that rise with games played passed the end of charting. Which does indicate very high skill ceilings/expression. But the consistent rise also indicates that these champs are very much masterable/perfectable with known/solved kits (ie after 70 games with these champions you know all of their mechanics, and just improve your execution), which puts very tangible ceilings on them, even if theoretically no one is operating at those ceilings yet.
Now granted, none of these champions show a plateau in winrate, which means in either case the data isn't letting us see any of their specific skill ceilings, whether reached or unreached by mains, hence why I'm using terms like 'indicating'.
Lol, lmao, lmfao even. Ezreal hard?