Massive Disappointment in the US market

100 years ago, I was a recruiter. When folks emailed resumes to me, I would print them out, white-out the names, and send the nameless copies to the hiring manager. The bigoted managers hated it but the rest were cool with it.

Looks like I will be use my “American-ized” name

Very real. Even happens with names that are, technically, very American. Don’t let anyone gaslight you into believing that you didn’t see what you know you saw.

I'm noticing a trend of under appreciation for data analysis at the moment. I think the buzzword of A.I. is hurting the data analysis jobs. This will quickly turn around because A.I. is more reliant on accurate data analysis than anything else but the C-suites aren't understanding that just yet. Thats probably why an educational institution has been your only hit, they already know.

So don't get too disheartened, I've seen these downturns and I think you'll be naming your price soon enough. 

One suggestion might be to A.I. up your resume if you want to hit on this current trend, data analysis for machine learning will probably get you farther than straight data analysis. (Also yes I know this is stupid but it's amazing how dumb hiring techniques still are)

Also putting something like that in your resume can allow you to pounce if they mention A.I. and go off about how the difference between successful A.I. implementation and a dumb database spouting nonsense is accurate data analysis.

Read the “Emily and Greg” study on name discrimination. It’s pretty famous. So yeah it’s not unlikely that it’s happening.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w9873

Another suggestion -- any interest in actuarial science? Guaranteed job security if you pass at least the first exam. And then you get paid to study for the other exams, with each exam passing you get an automatic raise/promotion. I could NOT pass those exams because I barely scraped by in my MS Statistics. Maybe you're much better at it than I was.

Edit: starting salary is 90k last I checked. Every exam passing adds another 10k to that. Most actuaries make close to 200k.

I live in Northern Virginia. A person with your quals would have a choice of numerous 6 figure jobs.

For analytics, what I’ve heard is that educational background doesn’t matter(as long as they have a degree) and they only care about experience. Name discrimination is a real thing. There have been numerous studies done on this. That’s why you should always use a ‘white’ name. If people ask, tell them it’s your nickname. As for the DS job market, it’s actually nuts how competitive it is now. I feel like anyone that has less than 5 years of experience is shut out of the market completely.

I agree with you. I had an uncomfortable interview this morning. I’m starting to think leaving the country is the best option.

I'm sorry to hear that. There various ways some employers discriminate against applicants that are/ should be illegal.

Also in Chicago and am massively dissapointed in the US job market as well. Have experienced back to back abusive/ toxic bosses at former jobs a few years ago - one so bad they also gave me CPTSD. Job hunting is insane now and I've basically given up even with a resume that has years of professional experience in tech since I don't see things getting better either in the near future (needing to apply for a record number of jobs such as 500, 1000, etc.., which was not the case a few years ago depending on your field, a lot of salaries not keeping up with inflation, AI ramping up, no training or poor training, ATS nonsense, companies playing power games/ demanding performance to the point of burning out their employees, wanting employees who are deeply passionate about their jobs when most people are just trying to make money to pay for their lives, etc...) It's actually really worrying how things are going with the labor market IMO.

Planning on leaving the America next year for a lot of reasons and becoming a digital nomad.

Data Science is super saturated... its not just you that cant find a job in this field

I have a very similar background to you also in Chicago, although I’m older now. I found that the absolute hardest time to get a new job was when I had 3 years’ experience.

I didn’t want entry level roles (and was overqualified), but the next step up was 3-5 years and I was at the bare minimum.

I applied to hundreds of roles and it was really depressing, but eventually I got one that turned out just fine!

You’ll get there, just keep at it. Feel free to PM me if you want more specific advice or ideas.

I’m so sorry this happened to you. I agree that you should use simple American name I hope it helps.

This job market is truly awful and very little white collar corporate hiring has occurred in finance, tech and Consulting over the past 15 months.

DM me and let’s connect and see if I can help

Hey, as a fellow (26 M) Chicagoan I wanted to jump in and say your experience is completely accurate. I also have applied for 300+ roles and have had a similar breakdown.

Despite over 7 different times making it to the final round, I would lose out to the position being put on hold due to poor economic circumstances or someone with slightly closer experience being chosen.

Only landed a position after my 5th referred role. I believe without a referral I would still be unemployed. Unfortunate reality of this market is that the only way is to keep trying thru network, and if you don’t have a network, you have to settle for something really poor.

Despite what ever anecdotal evidence people offer, the statistics show that the job market is stacked against “non-white” and “non-male” names.

Hi there was a very nasty comment made by someone. I am glad it is gone. I wrote my response after reading that. Here it goes :

One needs to be careful here. There will always be someone who would have would be harboring resentment against your ethnicity on online forums. Whatever it might be, there will always be that one guy who would express it indirectly. So while posting, try and not disclose your nationality, ethnicity or anything that could identify you. Intolerant people with unresolved mental issues will vent it out in you in such a manner that you can tell why they did that but you won't be able to hold them accountable. Discrimination is very real and is not new. Unless we have the entire hiring process done by AI which demands CVs with no name of the candidate, year they graduated, where they live, what they look like, where they worked, and just skills, I don't think discrimination would end.. even then certain built in, ingrained biases in that AI would do it's evil thing, just not so openly.

Not that name discrimination isn't a thing, because it definitely is; but I'm pretty sure having "Data Scientist" roles on your resume actually hurts you when you're looking for data analyst jobs and your past Data Scientist role will also hurt you when you look for DS jobs if your past Data Scientist role had no ML work. So hiring managers looking for either analysts or scientists will not look at you. I think you should rename your previous DS role and just say you were a DA.

We’re going to lose so many jobs to AI. And it seems to be rarely talked about, people complain about self checkout way more than AI. I feel like all jobs are analyst positions though. So we’re going to be in a really bad way once it’s all done by computers.

Sadly it’s just as bad in Europe right now so moving overseas might not be a quick fix

And they say S.T.E.M. is where the jobs are. Just another Chapter in the growing "College Is A Scam" book.

It is rough out there right now, the unemployment doesn’t include those who have departed the workforce which is incredibly manipulative.

It’s kind of all a big bummer because the world economy is not responding to the tools central banks use — which have never been statistically proven to work. Historically it has been potential happenstance. Because of this, the other big factor in keeping an economy moving is, making people believe it is moving. So they are intentionally lying and some have admitted it — can’t remember the name of the school of thought but the psychological effect is even thought to be able to “not have a recession”. I believe it, unfortunately it seems more like we have been in a recession for almost a year now. The election is not helping their candidness. China is literally falling apart. All trade lines are breaking down. The one day on cspan Congress pretty much admitted they’re waiting on tech so they can gut overhead (labor) costs.

The other wild thing is the younger generations coming into college and work know the statistics on the likelihood of their owning a home. They are massively becoming “NEET” no education or employment training.

The last stark factor, other than the world waiting for us to change interest rates because it isn’t inflation — is that no one has cash. It is especially notable with corporations. They are behaving like they must squeeze every dime out of us all.

So agreed. Though I’d say it’s the world right now. Honestly I think we should be smarter than needing to being all supply chains in the country to sure them up. I mean, I wasn’t born when we weren’t trading globally but I’m fairly sure that the massive growth started with massive global economy. China is really desperate and mentally illogically too.

It’s crazy

All praise Claud.

I’ve not worked for over a year. I gave up hunting and have just been learning from AI. Finally making some income.

The economy is changing. Sorry to hear the discrimination stuff. Def change that up. I don’t even tell them im white.

It yeah in the end it is time to get innovative and not chase traditional methods it seems.

You have to forget about your degree. Listen my friend, you have a valuable skill which is call discipline and you can definitely learn. Learn something and go freelancer. Your brain power isn’t appreciated in a fuck up job market.

My nephew is about to begin his senior year of college this Fall. His degree is a BS in data science, I wonder if he'll be able to find a job in his major. He lives in the Southeast.

I think going to another country would be best for you

Name discrimination age discrimination, and gender discrimination seem to be ok with employers in both Canada and the US lately.

My name is also “ethnic” and I’ve been really worried about how it’s affecting my applications (I am also in the U.S.) I am only 100 applications in but I have been ghosted and rejected by so many jobs that I meet the exact qualifications for in an in-demand field. Just here to say your experience is valid.

I dropped put of high school to hit stuff with a hammer and stain leather. I have been doing this for the last 20 years. I earn more than 6 figures per year on the ren fair circuit.

Listing your Masters degree might be hindering your chances, especially if you don't have any work experience to pair with it.

I’m not discounting the possibility of name discrimination happening in your current situation but thought I might share my recent application experience.

I have one of the most western/white sounding names you can imagine, and I’ve only had a couple of interviews in the last year after submitting at least 100 applications.

Take that FWIW

Look in the manufacturing industry. Tons of jobs that might not sound sexy with the analyst or data science keyword but look at the job descriptions and you'll see tons where your skills are needed. Pretty diverse too

That sounds awful 🙏🏼 good luck bro

Unfortunately, with the great resignation being over, you’re starting to see a lot of companies hiring shrink. It was a big push to get people in the door at big salary but now that is created a lot of unnecessary strain on the bottom line so you’re seeing companies shrink their bottom line. There is still jobs out there if you’re looking for data. I know a few that are looking for programmers in data science area small to medium companies to get your foot in the door. Midwest Companies seem to be more open and honest in the hiring practice. The bad part about it is is there’s a lot of people out of work right now.

Yes definitely anglicize your name. Data science seems like one of the few areas where hiring is not as bad.

It's like our Lord and Savior, Stephen King, said in the Good Book:

This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends This is the way the world ends.

Not with a Bang but a Whimper.

You're doing your absolute best and I'm sorry this world absolutely sucks. We should all be painting and baking and exploring. Not worrying about money or credit scores.

True story. ‘Americanized’ names yield better response from hiring managers even if the LinkedIn picture is ‘non American’

dude that sucks. hope you find what youre looking for.

as for me, i have a girls name. i should use that to the fullest advantage i can. because im a big burly dude and it always throws people lol

Reapply using English sounding name.

Just the opposite for me here in michigan. I can't get a job in it because I'm not Chinese or Spanish. They want native born speakers! Everything here is being outsourced. Even my local Burger King wants an associates degree in dining room management - or professional food service prep. For 1475 an hour, with a bachelor's degree basically. And Walmart, part-time 12:49 an hour, they want somebody with a bachelor's degree in Business logistics for overnight stocking! And preferable Spanish speaker! This is BS but this is just my area

Consider starting your own business. And play the game, use an Americanized name. There are racist every where, even abroad, they just hide it better. What other jobs can you apply to where you can apply your skills? I had to apply to hundreds of jobs to just get 1 freakin interview and I needed to secure a job and thank God I did. I’ve never had to apply to so many jobs to get an interview… even in the last recession. This job market is tricky. I’m not in tech, I’m in the nonprofit sector. I’d also suggest you expand your social network. You need you advocates to advocate for you in their own companies. Your social network is your net worth. I actually landed that job because I knew someone from within. The amount of hustling that is required nowadays is unlike anything I’ve experienced before. But when your back is up against the wall and bills need to be paid and a lifestyle maintained… you just go out there and kill it.

HR nowadays sends the job openings to their family or friends first, Hispanic and blackjobs" are low paying more work, Trump is right about that much. Building owners/management companies love it

I've tested using an American name and a foreign name and often my foreign name is better...

Based on everything I have seen you my life, having a non-American sounding name is possibly even an advantage in STEM fields.

There have been mass layoffs in the field you are trying to enter, which flooded the talent pool. Furthermore, everyone has concerned about AI stealing creative jobs because it makes a fun headline article when Sora spits out a shitty video. But in actuality, statical analysis is what current AI systems are great at. Every major employer is working to develop AI to do these jobs. Management consulting firms are already cutting their yearly hiring of fresh MBA graduates.

It’s a shitty job market for people in your field, not racism.

Hey. Please message me. I am a DS and I might have an opening within my team.

Sorry dude.. Its rough out there no matter what your name is or isn't. Maybe look in California ? We have a lot of arabs here and no one cares if you think that is what is stopping you. Having PTSD from a job is real :( I am so sorry you went through that. You made the right choice to leave. It might take a while to get a job, but its better than what happens the longer you are in that environment.

In the analytics / data science world, so many come from places other than the US that it is not anything as much a "thing" to have a foreign sounding name. It is the norm. But many people with complicated/foreign sounding names have definitely Americanized their first names post-WW II, as human nature being what it is, employers subconsciously may assume that you do not speak "good" English and they need someone who can communicate clearly with clients. Coming from a foreign background myself, I cannot tell you how many Johns and Jacks with ethnic last names there were, and it bothered none of them - business is business.

You are looking for some sort of set, clear, definitive, absolute, inarguable reason why you are not making progress, raging against the machine like there is a conspiracy. The truth is that right now, there is a huge surplus of data scientists applying for every role that comes up. Many firms over-hired, fueling even more aspirants to pursue degrees and enter the marketplace, and it has come to a head. Firms suddenly let go of unimaginable thousands of data scientists and analysts, and the market simply cannot absorb them. There is talent galore with no place to go, and it looks like this will bleed into 2025. Many now defer jumping ship for fear of not landing.

So instead of looking for reasons, you have to keep pushing. And since most jobs come via some type of networking, yes you must network and network and network until you collapse. And then get up again and network and network and network. I'm sorry you jumped out of the frying plan into the fire, but it is a waste playing the blame game. Good luck.

You can expect to apply to nearly 1,000 jobs before you secure an offer. I’ve been told to network to increase my chances. I’m rooting for you! Best of luck.

Uh yeah dude you should’ve BEEN using your “white” name. Try it out and see what happens.

At 26 you learned name discrimination is a thing? Were you living under a rock for the past 16 years?

Anyways the market is tough at the moment and will become tougher for Data Science/Analytics/Engineers if they don’t have a SDE background.

Those certifications mean nothing

Do you know how smart Claude 3.5 sonnet is? Knowing that, ask yourself, why would companies keep hiring IT staff?

Yea I’m sure it’s bigotry and not the fact that you left your previous job due to “ptsd” over a mean manager and claim name bigotry on Reddit. You are an hr nightmare, why would they take the risk. That’s why they went with someone who had no background in analytics. You can teach that. you can’t unteach a candidate out of their leftist thinking, which clearly you are riddled with due to this post.

Everyone I ever met professionally that had a difficult to pronounce name simplified/americanized it.

Myself included, and I am German. No big deal.

If you don't do that it is a sign that you might be difficult to work with.

It’s cause you’re in the Midwest if you were in Seattle or Boston etc you’d already have a job.

You could have done what you wanted in your previous job if you were going to quit anyways...

To be honest, data analysis and data science became the buzz words some five years ago and the field got saturated very very quickly. Also, this is a job that can be done remotely so can be outsourced outside the US for cheaper labor. So the market is particularly bad for data scientists.

Having PTSD due to a manager is not common , is it? Haven't heard that. Also the name discrimination claim is a red flag for any hiring manager. You seem to have a huge sense of entitlement and victim card mentality.

Switch to machine learning, do a course on Coursera, Udacity or Udemy. Understand the ML roles may have leetcoding involved but just put it on your resume as a way to catch more eyes. Job market is pretty horrible right now. If you are worried about name discrimination there are some companies where they are mostly non-white. CNH is one I interviewed at and it was almost all Indian people. I have no idea if Indians would favor middle eastern people over white people but you can sometimes look on Glassdoor and get insight into what races of people are at the company.

The US military is hiring

How did you “tune” your resume?

You’re not getting interviews. That should be your focus. Run your resume through Career Flow AI. 

What is a Palestinian origination name? Judea? Samaria?

Its not you name, its your relationships with managment.