Just felt like the plot of Theon being tortured by Bolton was intended to be some form of karma but did he actually deserve it that bad?
He has the great redemption arc protecting the family who raised him
I know most people feel this way but he was beyond redemption in my eyes.
What Jaime did to Bran was awful, but I can at least understand why he did it. If people found out about him and Cersei there is a good chance they would both be killed, perhaps their children as well.
What Theon did to the Starks and to the farm boys was unforgivable.
I agree, but especially in the books, his chapters are so brutal for so long. You start to feel bad and root for him and his escape.
I like the book theory that the kids he killed are his bastard sons from when he has sex with the Millers wife. Reek although he was given that name was also a method to distance himself from his crimes... I didn't kill those boys it was theon. I am not theon.
I’m with you. Theon did a lot of things that are being redemption.
I agree.
When Theon runs toward the NK and certain death he knows he hasn't been redeemed, even though Bran said to him that he was a good man, (but not that he was redeemed or forgiven). He knows this is the best he could do with what little is left of his life and self worth.
I made a post about this recently. Initially I didn't feel bad for him. And felt he deserved it...but then the stuff with Yara happens and then Balon getting killed by Euron. Seeing how Yara brought him back into the light made him a better man. Not saying he was redeemed but I think he was on a path to redemption.
He brought himself into the light. Glad he worked out things with Yara, but everyone abandoned him when he done what was expected of him. Theon was right for everything he said when he came back home in to Balon and they treated him as shit. He made a mistake betraying Rob and what happened to him was more deserved than not (torture was absolutely horrific). Yara did welcome him, but still after everything that happened... It's hard being in Theons position on the one side family and on the other people that raised you, that made you who you are today. In the end Theon definitely found the right answer and he was definitely redeemed.
There was no path to redemption for him IMO. Betrayed the Starks and killed and burned two children. Unforgivable.
Agreed. I mean I can understand why he was the way he was after the show went into his family stuff, but yeah he deserved what he got.
Redemption isn't about doing X amount of things and you are forgiven. It is up to the people you have wronged. Full stop. And the people he wronged, that we know about, allowed him to fight on their side. That is the end of it.
Yeah I doubt the farm boys he murdered and torches would forgive him but how knows.
He deserved it since stark did not do anything that cause him disadvantage or anything stupid. He is just too proud before. Bit he had repent his sin so well after
Up until he burned those children I would have said no
Yeah. Deserved.
Killing kids is the line, unless its Joffrey. Or baby hitler.
Yes he does, dude let his insecurities betrayed, Robb perhaps the only pers. That truly believed in him and trusted him at 100%
He took away his home and committed act like hanging and burning innocent children (who In the books may or not be his own children)
He got his redemption arc but things went way too easy for post season 6. There is not in hell book Jon wouldn't kill him on sight or call him "stark"
wzyntoo
wut
That my friend is what happen when you have a french auto-corrector on your phone
He was just traumatized as a child from being ripped away from his family. Even though he was treated basically like family, he could still feel that gaping wound. And he was really looking for his identity of his own. In all honesty, he was redeemed when he rescued Yara and defended Bran from the Night King. He literally looked DEATH in the face and said I’m not going down without a fight because WHAT IS DEAD MAY NEVER DIE!!!
He definitely looked death in the face when killing those innocent children...
He did.
I feel like his betrayal of the Starks is justifiable since even if he loves Robb he was still the Starks hostage
What made him evil in my eyes was him murdering two innocent little boys. In the end he mostly redeemed himself. But I can't say i fel bad for him for the most part
He betrayed his brother for a family that had forgotten about him
Well this wasnt the worst part for me. Atleast he had a point doing it. A shitty one but its in some way understandable. Killing innocent children...that is inacceptable.
From John Ciardi’s translation of Dante’s Inferno. In the 9th circle of Hell are the traitors. “The treacheries of these souls were denials of love (which is God) and of all human warmth. Only the remorseless dead center of the ice will serve to express their natures. As they denied God’s love, so they are furthered removed from the light and warmth of His Sun.”
I would say that Theon committed a number of unforgivable crimes. But the breaking of the bond of trust between a man whom Theon called “brother” is especially heinous in GoT as it would be seen even today (taking out the religious imagery depicted above).
Call me crazy but nobody deserves what happened to Theon. Flayed alive, dick cut off, flayed alive more, and flayed alive more. He deserved Justice…but anybody who thinks that is Justice really needs to evaluate their life.
This 100%, these comments are crazy
Yeah I expected it to be different but idk what these people are on. While the things theon did were awful, no one deserves what he suffered
Yeah, a lot of sick minds on this sub apparently.
Glad to know I’m not alone here!
I agree completely. We are of the same mind. Glad I found this comment. The others were disheartening... but not unexpected. I've had enough conversations about this subject to know that most people are way more wrathful, and way less forgiving than I am. Kinda scary.
If anyone killed my son I'll gladly flay some mother fucker and make him eat his cock.
You either…
Wouldn’t and only think you would (weird)
Would and you need to seek therapy.
Burning children and betraying the only people who were nice to you for a family that doesn’t even like you kinda seals the deal for me
Yes
Yes, he killed two children.
No, he deserved justice. Mutilation and flaying is far from justice and compared to other peoples' crimes his punishment seems to be overkill.
Who's justice does he deserve?
Jail or a quick death. The same as every other violent criminal.
So, your own, then?
Because Theon was under the jurisdiction of the Boltons, who enacted their own legal form of justice.
Justice is justice. And justice and vengeance are two different things. What happened to Theon isn't "justice" no matter what he did or who is inflicting it upon him.
No, justice is not justice in Westeros.
The Boltons flay their enemies. To the Boltons, that is their justice.
The Starks behead their enemies, because that is Stark Justice.
If the Martells buried their enemies in sand up to their necks out in the desert, that would be Martell Justice.
Do not make the foolish mistake of applying real world "justice" to Westeros.
Notcie how the initial question was whether or not YOU think its morally right not what random people in Westeros think. Is it moral to rape children? WeLl MoRaLlTy iS SuBjEcTiVe. Dont be that guy.
Howaboyt this then. Theon deserved everything that he got.
Happy?
I would say no not fully because the people doing it to him didn’t really care about what he had done
This. Yes, he did unforgivable things and deserved to be punished for them, BUT Ramsey actually talked him into doing them and didn’t care that Theon did them, so how is what Ramsey did to Theon justified when he wasn’t doing it to punish Theon for his actions. Ramsey was just a sadistic fuck and was torturing Theon for fun. That isn’t justice.
This is also the basis of why torture is mostly seen as useless and is more to satisfy the torturer then give up information. Majority of people would give up what they knew pretty quickly
This is definitely true.
Nobody deserves what happened to Theon.
Probably deserved execution, the psychological torture might have been overboard but you can't say he didn't bring it on himself
Dude betrayed the only family that cared about him as a person, murdered his mentor, murdered two innocent boys*, and a few more crimes I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Yeah, I 100% believe he deserved what happened to him.
*Consider how Robb Stark reacted when his own bannerman killed the two Lannister children.
He executed them quickly and painlessly. Whose cock did Robb remove?
Painlessly?
Yep. Beheading is instant and painless.
Both the show and books shows that theon actually missed the cut and had to actually to try 5 more times... It was absolutly not painless
I was talking about Robb's executions.
Exept Robb litterally watched his wife and child died before him.....
I'm not sure what you think we're arguing about. 🤷♂️
"This one was just the watcher. Hang him last so he can watch the others."
People keep mentioning that he betrayed rob but redeemed himself by defending bran but are we really just going to ignore the murder of Roderick and two random children?
Child murderers don't deserve redemption.
Whether or not he deserves redemption wasn't the question that was asked. Do you think he deserved to be sexually abused and permanently mutilated? Do all murderers deserve the same?
I was responding to those comments I mentioned and whether or not he deserved redemption like they all are saying he did.
The question is a bit silly though because no one deserves sexual abuse and torture, not even joffrey or Ramsey himself.
No one deserves that. And if they do, it's not our place to decide. I think that's the point too. He doesn't get tortured because he deserves it, he gets tortured because he had the bad luck to run into a sick fuck. Ramsay himself says so.
And worse after what he did to those poor farm boys.
I don't think anybody deserves to be tortured regardless of their crimes. Imprisoned? Absolutely. Death penalty? Sure, for the worst of them. But torture is always objectively wrong. An evil deed is an evil deed regardless of the recipient.
Theon killed a couple innocent farmers boys and he did deserve justice for that. But what Ramsay put him through isn't any sort of justice. But you know what? I think redemption is even better than justice. And he redeemed himself multiple times over. He had some serious errors in judgement, but like Bran said to him before he died, "You're a good man." He died a hero. If there's a heaven, he's there.
God this sub is obsessed with this dude. He deserved death.
Nobody deserves to be dehumanized.
Theon deserved everything and more. He literally killed two children…like…what are we talking about?
There were reasons for that, even if that doesnt change the crime. He felt remorse and he knew what he had done was wrong. I mean yeah, he committed terrible crimes, but the things he went through was way too much.
No, and I think that was the point. We spend all that time hating Theon and wanting him to receive punishment. And, then, the punishment comes in a brutal and inhumane way that makes us feel for him again.
Are we really gonna talk about who deserved what in GoT?
Dude it's game of thrones almost no one gets what they deserve
No one deserves to be tortured or made into a plaything for a psychopath. He deserved to die. That’s really it.
He acted like a dick in the beginning when he betrayed robb and took winterfell . But i felt bad for him for the way ramsay tortured him , like he was destroyed forever . But later on , his character and personality changed , he saved yara from euron and died protecting bran from the night king
The kraken is watching you, theon
All I have to say is think how many lost their lives because of his idiocy
The betrayal was pointless which made it all the more worse
He literally is one of the first to egg Rob on (more or less starting the entire war). He wanted Rob to attack the Twins and also counsels to execute Jaimie outright.
Heads home (Iron Island) to try and make an alliance but fails. Ordered to a support role but disobeys and comes up with his mad plan to take Winterfell despite being no chance to hold it. Oh and he then released Ramsey from prison (after the Hornwood battle).
Refuses to yield and instead gives Reek / Ramsay money to help him, causes sack of Winterfell then (later) the sack of Moat Callin.
Even the torture he endures is made worse because he is a coward otherwise he should have died long before.
Nobody deserves that.
Nobody deserves a transition surgery against they’re will
Nah
No one deserves what happened to Theon. But I enjoyed it anyway because he killed John Wick’s dog.
Yep.
He killed two innocent kids. He deserved it all
Thoen of the house greyjoy, whatever happened there.
He did to himself though. Had multiple times to dj right and went wrong way, watched by plenty to do different and blindly put himself in the position to be tortured or die. Matters were tortured and died the much less
No.. it was too much
Theon didn’t deserved to get flayed and turned into a eunuch but he definitely deserved to be punished in some other way dude betrayed the family who treated him like one of their own kids for a guy who couldn’t care less about his own family and murdered innocent kids out of insecurity and selfishness
No one deserved that.
Well it worked didn’t it, he spent the rest of his days correcting his errors, died defending a stark in winterfel, nearly died rescuing a stark from the monster ramsey. maybe it was necessary. Brutal and twisted, possibly overkill. But necessary i would say.
In the context of GOT yes. He treated people bellow him poorly, broken his oath, abused his status, was reckless, overly prideful and was very ignorant. He incapsulated a lot of flaws which had lead to the demise of other characters. His torture in reality was too much but metaphorically makes sense as again it adds up. Theon was too ignorant to know what game he inherited.
absolutely not
No he didnt
I want to say yes because he killed those kids but having your dick chopped should be reserved only for those who rape people. Now he certainly deserved everything else that happened to him.
No one deserves pain, horror and misery.
I'm a Theon sympathizer. The guy grew up in a family that kept their distance from him just in case they had to execute him.
He's even more of a literal bastard than Jon Snow imo.
He has no true family, and is trying to make both of his "families" proud, and notice his existence.
He got confused and tried to gain his father's approval only to realize that his real father, and the man he's most like had always been Eddard Stark. He only realized it too late.
So no. I don't think he deserved the torture. He's always been tortured. He's always mentally tortured by his situation and thus he's always been Reek. Ramsay broke him down on a subconscious level, and revealed how Theon really felt, because otherwise he would have just died to the torture.
He's always been a victim of the game of thrones.
I think he deserves to survive the series, and work to redeem himself in Bran's council.
I think he should serve as Bran's hand considering they both reached their destinies, and aren't who or what they were before
Yes, the treacherous shit
This guy killed children. Possibly his own. Had their mother slaughtered because she begged him for mercy. This is the woman he “knew” for years by the way.
He deserved everything done to him and worse.
This show (up to a certain point) was utterly unconcerned with what people deserved. They got what they got because they got outmaneuvered, out skilled or simply out lucked.
From a 'moral' perspective Ned didn't deserve the fate he got but that doesn't mean no one could see it coming or that it didn't make logical sense. It subverted expectations of how a TV show should go, but it didn't subvert logic or character motivations and personalities. So Theon got utterly outsmarted by Ramsey after putting himself in a desperate situation by taking over winterfell.
So having said that, morally did he deserve what he got? Well he betrayed and imprisoned the people he grew up with. He didn't mean to kill them but he did betray them. He killed two innocent village boys to make people believe he had killed the stark kids. This last part is especially heinous. Taking over winterfell is a betrayal and a move in war (it'd be different if it he entered as a friend and betrayed them), he took the castle fair and square although he did betray Rob's trust in doing so.
To try to judge him based on today's morality is kinda hard, we don't torture people, period. Even the worst crimes that have Capital punishment in some countries don't have a brutal death sentence. So do I think he should have been tortured? No. Did he deserve it ? In the context of the show, maybe. In the context of the modern world no. Do I feel sorry for him? It's hard to
He burned children alive and was a-hole to others most of his life before Boltens happened to him... So yes it was deserved.
Definitely deserved to get some sort of punishment but definitely not to the extent he went through. Don’t think I’d wish that on anyone lol
I think he represents a universal look at karma. We collectively rejoice as an audience when he initially gets his comeuppance… and then it keeps going… and going… and we start to break down… and eventually we kind of wish he either dies or breaks free from his torment. He shows us that we as fellow human beings should not be in charge of punishment. By the end… we can’t help but cheer him on. For preserving.
To a point. It went too far.
No, the point of theon's tragedy is life is not fair and stupidity will cost you
I think People saying he deserved it forget what happened to him.
No. I think he learned his lesson at the beginning of his capture. Ramsay went way too far and I thought 'that's enough now, the man knows what he did.'
He deserves far worse IMO. Betrayed the people who raised him and then killed two kids and burned their bodies. Beyond redemption for me and I never cared about him after that.
Yes and no.
Yes because he is stupid and ungrateful traitor who thought that he is someone special.
And no beacuse Bolton's punisment is to harsh for Theon's crime.
Personally if I was in position of Ramsy Snow I would help him to became lord of Pyke and made him my bannerman.
But in all other position like lord Bolton, Lanisters, Arryn or Stark's bannermen I would just kill him for his act.
The murdering of two children makes it hard for me to feel bad for him. But at the same time, his punishment was worse than death.
I guess we all forgot about the two boys he murdered as well as everyone else.
He did. Then he redeemed himself through penance and protecting his adoptive family
ABSOLUTELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT, NO! 🤧
But can we talk about how poor Alfie can’t seem to land a role where he DOESN’T get punched in the face? 😂🫠
Didn't he burn two innocent kids alive and then hung them up in winterfell to make it seem like it was Bran and Rickon? I mean in any universe, real or fictional, they deserve a lot of bad things to happen to them for that.
Yes
I think he was a victim. He didn't choose to leave his family and join another. By the time of the show he was a lost pup, confused why his father rejected him when they met for the first time in years and he wanted to show him he was still his son. Bunch of tragic circumstances led to him attacking the Starks and ending up mutilated.
I always thought no. Not because what he did wasn’t ’that bad’ but because he wasn’t really evil at heart
I'd say nobody deserves what he went through. He betrayed the people who were his real family but it's not hard to sympathize with his resentment.
He quite literally is a prisoner kept as a hostage to keep his bio dad in line, and he's reminded of that fact when someone wants to put him in his place, even his real siblings.
And let's just admit that if we're going to label early Theon as "evil" for what he did, can we at least be sensible and agree that he's nowhere near as evil as other evil characters?
Cersei? Joffery? Roose? RAMSAY???
I'd say having your face mauled off by dogs still doesn't compare to wtf Theon went through.
I don't think anyone deserves what happened to him. However, I think he should be dead for burning those two farm boys, doesn't matter what redemption arc he goes through.
I think that there is a mixing of words in this thread. Did Theon deserve what happened to him? Maybe not. Maybe not even the most evil man imagined deserves that, but to me that was one of the ways he could redeem himself. Redeeming yourself is about more than justice. Most murderers never redeem themselves but they are still subject to justice in the form of punishment.
Mmm everything up to the castration was pretty deserved.
Cuz it’s not just about the betrayal itself, it’s the killing of innocents to solidify it. Ser Rodrick and the two kids
He sacked Winterfell and killed most in the castle. He lead a raid from the coast into the north, where they pillaged, killed and raped their way. He killed and burned the last male heirs of winterfell. So the new wardens of the north tortured him as revenge. Or at least that is how the world would see it. Even though he 'just' killed two farmers boys instead.
No one deserves what happened to Theon
He just had a few bad years.
No one really deserves all that. I mean yeah dude probably deserved to die… but chopping a man’s penis off is fuckin’ weak
Yes..
At least he was spared the flaying
No idc he did deserve some type of punishment but that was to much
I mean, he did just burn 2 farm boys and pretty sure he’d do it to bran and rickon if he found them. Also executed Rodrick Cassel which was a dick move. 3 lives for 3 of his members removed, he didn’t suffer enough if you ask me.
No
He died like a boss.
I mean, he should have been killed sooner. The ball sack thing, well, that’s sad
Honestly I could have watched the entire show without Theon.
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