I've not read the books, so I'm not sure if there is any clarification on this, but I'm wondering why technology doesn't seem to advance in Westeros and Essos. In House of the Dragon series, well before the events of the Dance of Fire & Ice, we see King's Landing appears to basically be on the brink of industrial revolution. Certainly there must be some resource in Westeros which could be burned to produce steam power. I'm very curious to know why technology doesn't advance in this world, or are there pockets of advancement we just aren't aware of? Perhaps too much war has prevented advancement, but then again, history has shown that during wartime, nations tend to make a lot of technological advancements.
I've always just thought that they are in their worlds' dark ages. Kinda like how our history spent some 900 years with no technological or scientific advancement.
Uhm, the last time we had 900 years anywhere with no tech advancement was well before a region adopted agriculture.
Even in europe (the most backwards region in eurasia at the time), the post classical era saw technological progress: Medieval technology - Wikipedia
A lot of new things were invented between the fall of the western roman empire and gunpowder.
Similar to the world of Harry Potter. Magic and access to magic-adjacent stuff has stymied innovation.
The notion that the middle ages were "dark ages" is a modern and frankly wrong framing of history. Where we supposedly went through the dark ages only to get out of it with the 'renaissance' and the "Siecle des Lumières".
In most people minds because of how bad history is taught, the middle ages are like a 1000 year black hole where nothing happened, people covered in mud with no teeths burning witches the entire time with the Inquisition and religious obscurantism... It was very far from that overall.
yeah, it's a huge misconception, and unfortunately, very common
first of all, let's address a common misconception displayed in what you said. the so called "dark ages" and the middle ages are not exactly the same thing. the middle ages lasted roughly from 600 CE to around 1450 CE, beginning somewhat earlier and ending somewhat later in some areas. one definition in common use covers the time from 476 to 1492, a period of over 1000 years. the dark ages, if we even accept that they were really a thing, covered only the first portion of this time period. exact dates vary with geography, but the period certainly drew to a close by around the 10th century.
"dark ages" really is an antiquated and loaded term. in the strictest sense, it refers to a period of time from which relatively little written material has survived. for that reason we know less about it than we do about the times before and after it, so it's "dark" in that sense (though even this usage is quite problematic, as we have been able to learn more and more about the period). by this interpretation, the high and late middle ages were not part of the "dark ages". but the term was originally coined in reference to the entirety of the middle ages, contrasting the period with the "light" of the classical period and, especially, the enlightenment. the term conjures up images of filthy, superstitious, uneducated peasants clothed in rags, dying of plague, with barely existent governments dominated by the catholic church. your comment assumes that the period was one of decline and loss, implying that no progress of any sort was made for over 800 years, whereas, in fact, the middle ages was a time of vibrant culture, trade, art and science.
so yes, things were invented. the three field system is one of the most notable inventions. it was a huge improvement over the farming practices in the classic period, far surpassing the roman agriculture. why? well, when you plant the same thing over and over in a soil, the soil will, over time, be depleted of nutrients, making it unfertile and unable to produce. medieval farmers developed the three field system, in which they'd plant, let's say, grains in one third of their land, legumes in another third, and the last third was left to be grazed by animals. the legumes and animal manure returned ingredients to the soil that had been previously depleted by the grains, allowing for a much better yield than the older methods. medieval farmers also used heavy plows that were markedly improved over what the romans had. this allowed them to cultivate the heavy soils of northern europe, something that was very difficult before. these factors, along with other agricultural developments, brought about such significant food surpluses that the population of europe increased more or less constantly from the early middle ages up until the crisis of the 14th century.
improved farming practices were not the only inventions, though. by the high middle ages, smiths were making plows, weapons, and tools that were far superior to anything classical smiths could make. economic inventions took place also - the first recognizable modern banks were founded in italy in the 12th century. modern capitalism (whatever your opinions of it are) requires the investment of large amounts of capital, which is practically impossible without a functioning banking system.
scientific and philosophical knowledge was respected and encouraged. there is a tendency to dismiss the middle ages as dark, because there seem to have been few huge leaps in science and learning. but the university, the center of science and learning today, was invented in the middle ages. and all those great classical thinkers like aristotle, cicero, euclid and all the rest? we only know about their existence because medieval scholars studied and preserved their writings.
to address a broader issue, though, there is a tendency in our culture today to equate progress with technological invention. that's just the world we live in, with new discoveries and inventions announced every day. first of all, that's hardly the historical norm. even under the "glory that was rome", technology was relatively static. the best technology available under the empire of the second century wasn't really dramatically different from what was around 300 years earlier. so, the allegedly static technological landscape of the middle ages, as inaccurate as that characterization is, wouldn't be a seismic shift from the classical period even if it were accurate.
but maybe most importantly, calling fast technological development "progress" isn't necessarily accurate either. the average person in the middle ages had a markedly improved quality of life over the average person living in the roman empire, for example. they lived longer, and were less likely to die of disease, famine, or in battle. where would you rather live, as a slave in a glorious ancient city filled with marble temples, palaces, statues, and libraries that you never enter, and where disease, starvation, and violence are facts of life? or in a humble cottage with your family, where you live out your days in peace, raising crops and children? that's an exaggeration, of course, but i think it's illustrative. "better" technology doesn't always mean better lives. we all know how industrial technologies developed in the 19th century were horrifically used in the 20th century to kill millions and to make the lives of millions more immeasurably worse. with that example in mind, maybe the fact that some classical knowledge was lost in the "dark ages" wasn't such a bad thing.
i hope this helps you to start looking at this topic from a different perspective. happy to answer any questions
You are taking my comment way too seriously. Also, I never even said middle ages in my original comment. I was just answering the OP's question.
GRRM made decisions early on to keep the setting early medieval (though the Wars of the Roses structure was late medieval!). No steam, no gunpowder or printing, but instead medicine and communication (fairly fast via raven) came in handy.
When you have winters 8 years long, all resources go to food storage instead of invention.
This is a great callout.
Eight year old chicken. Yummy!
Also it's a whole different world. Maybe there actually isn't coal.
There is always a charcoal.
I also found it funny that Kyburn "invents" the scorpion in GOT but I see them already made in S2ep2 of HOD
I think this is clearly because it had been lost with the end of the age of dragons, what’s the point in dragon weapons without dragons. Hidden in some book somewhere he probably found it and took credit for
That makes sense
One of my favourite conspiracy theories (even if I don't believe it myself) was that the whole world of Planetos is just an amnesiac post-apocalyptic earth.
The whole winters that last multiple years belies that theory. In fact, to have a planet that has indiscriminately variable season lengths like this probably has to have a very irregular orbit around its sun, influenced by another gravitational force. Otherwise there would be regularity.
Yup, that's how I always interpreted that scene in GoT. I never got the vibe that he discovered it so much as found an old dusty book with schematics lol
Scorpions are mentioned early on in ASOIAF, so I don’t know what that whole bit was about
Rediscovering lost technology is a thing that happens
I've always thought it was because of Dragons. Basically there is no need for cannons to lob artillery over castle walls when you have dragons that can breathe fire, so gunpowder never gets invented.
Obviously there is no right answer, but I've always liked thinking about it that way.
Actually wouldn't that hasten the discovery/invention of gun powder/artillery that is anti-dragon? If my nation doesn't have a dragon., I will do my best to create a weapon against it.
Maybe, but that sort of venture would require lots of resources to implement on a large scale, and when the state is invested in maintaining its dragon monopoly, that simply will not happen.
Reasonable. Base on our own non-fictional history, war helps expedite discoveries/inventions. So over the span of say 400-900 years, I am certain they may have other techs. Especially when magic is real in GoT, I am surpirsed they don't have machine powered by magic (whcih is eeriely similar to electricity).
what does "not advanced" mean? relative to say, the dark ages, they're miles ahead. I mean they're not exactly building super computers and nanobots, but they're doing ok. They have a far better understanding of, say, illnesses than their many medieval counterparts, and some pretty darn impressive architectural marvels.
Plus they have dragons 🐉
It’s less about their level of technology but more about the progression of which. Looking at the histories, technology for the whole world really hasn’t changed in literal thousands of years. And not just technology. The same family, the Starks, have been living in the exact same castle for 8000 years with no changes, just for one example
Why has technology not advanced in the world of GoT?
It has.
But the lens isn't focused on the lives of the smallfolk and people who actually work to survive, which is where those technological advances would be.
I'd say two reasons.
In a world where magic exists, science is fighting for share of mind. Which would you choose to embrace if getting given a choice. Magic also mucks with science. "This is a curse!" could actually be a reason for a malady, for example.
The second some folks have already auuded to. The long night, dragon wars, the doom of valaryia. Seems like a lot of epic doomsday events in this world constantly pushing back on advances in civilization. .
There are no "in-universe" reasons, although I am sure people can come up with some explanations.
GRRM simply wanted to create a medieval world with dragons. And a world whose history stretched back to thousands and thousands of years.
These two things are not compatible in the real world, but in Asoiaf world, even 8000 years ago, the world was medieval and in the current timeline the world is medieval.
Also, many modernization inventions or at least their precursors were made in medieval times, and we don't see such things here as well, it is a fairly static world, but this is very common in most fantasy and scifi novel settings.
If you must ask this question, then I don't think these stories are for you.
I reckon the Maesters are hoarding it. Their whole shtick is being the smart ones, keepers of lore and guardians of knowledge. If every Pod, Pyp and Lommy got their paws on technology that made life easier and elevated everyone out of the dirt then there'd be no need to give houseroom to someone who essentially brings nothing new to the table. Their entire system would fall apart.
Keep the population ignorant and they'll cling to you as some sort of hero desperate for the tidbits of intellect you might deign to share with them
I find it just as strange that the same dynastys pretty much remain Kings/Lord Paramount across centuries despite multiple intrigues, rebellions and winters.
Probably a mix of magic and winter. Having dragons does a lot, and having these years-long winters would radically shift how resources are managed.
They don't have a Persian empire equivalent.
I think technology probably has advanced in the realm of ship building or weapon technology. It maybe more prevalent in other parts of the world, like Esteros. Sam’s advancement in medicine alone (curing Jorah’s grey scale) almost certainly counts.
I would expect things to move slower in a world that has magic, though,
My take from the shows was that it’s the maesters. They effectively control the flow of information and knowledge and that’s where their power comes from. They’re not interested in progress/advancing knowledge bc then it has the potential to displace their role/influence and upset the power balance
It's only been like 250 years since Aegon's conquest.
Sometimes technology actually regresses and goes backwards. Like from Roman times to the Dark Ages.
Maybe it's like Dune and they have decided not to develop some technology.
Because stories about Dragons go better with swords and arrows than steam trains and muskets.
Why has technology not advanced in the Middle Earth ?
It's a valid question.
Not really.
Ultimately, there's no diegetic explanation. Westeros is perpetually stuck in medieval feudalism because the genre elements that GRRM wanted for the story require it to be.
The maesters won't allow it and the great houses have no uses to push for advancements
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