Caesars Legion (would they win without Courier intervention, the Dam, yes, but not the war) a second thought.

Question

Hello all, I just had a sudden thought (I am fully prepared for this to be a Buzz Lightyear clone meme but hear me out).

I think it is generally assumed that if the Courier had not gotten involved/ died at the start of the game, that the Battle for Hoover Dam would have lead to a Legion victory considering the precarious situation that the NCR are already in during the Couriers arrival in the Mojave, leading to the NCR to withdraw from the Mojave (as stated in the Legion victory ending).

But I just had this thought (watch this for the same pretense - "What if Caesar's Legion Won in Fallout: New Vegas? - Fallout Alternate History").

(Yes I do believe they would win the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, but not the war).

Now ther question is, if Caesars Legion controlled the entirely of the Mojave, wouldn't Caesars Legion still have a hard time taking the fight to the NCR proper considering the plethora of "allies" the NCR has?

As Gloria Van Graff states "And he (Caesar) doesn't have friends. Only servants. And the Van Graffs serve no one but themselves". as well as stating "My family has enough men and guns to field a small army".

Coupled with the fact the Gun Runners and the Crimson Caravan are almost certainly in the same position as the Van Graffs, (hiring mercenaries or having there own personal militia), and other enemies of the NCR, such as the Brotherhood of Steel and any other state actors that may well "ally" with the NCR as a matter of convenience against the Legion, and it is well to assume that the NCR would win any war against Caesars Legion due the afformentioned reasons as it's not just the New Californian military that they are going against, but against one or possibly two more armies, each with there own arsenal (one being entirely decked out with Plasma and Energy based weapons) and quite possibly another small army if we were to Include the Brotherhood of Steel, and that is now adding Power Armour to the equation as well.

I had this sudden thought because I have watched a lot of videos detailling that while the New California Republic would loose the Second Battle for Hoover Dam without the Courier's intervention and quite possibly the overall war, I never heard about the Van Graff's being taken into account.

The Gun Runners to a certain extent, but the Van Graff's and the Crimson Caravan to a greater one.

Afterall, I would think these organisation's would share the same mentality of "They're an enemy we can live with. This Caesar, on the other hand, is a different animal", and to me that's just better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

I also take into account by what Legate Lanius himself stated in support of the Legion not being able to invade NCR territory - "The East was a hard-fought campaign. Even now, Caesar drew too much of the Legion's blood needed there for... this".

Edit: All parts about this scenario are based entirely on what goes on in-game that the Courier did do, etc Ceaser dying due to his brain tumor as it is the Courier that saves Ceaser by removing his brain tumor, so if the Courier has died, Ceaser does so as well, (I'm not going to delve into Fan Fiction/ theory by saying that Ceaser could have kidnapped a Follower of the Applocaplse and say that they removed the Tumor as there are no hints in normal game-play that Ceaser would have done this).

What are all of your thoughts on this?

in fnvby xMini_Wazx

188

95%

15d

13d

Branded_Mango

15d

The primary issue with the Legion without Courier intervention is that Caesar will die to his brain tumor. Interestingly, he doesn't seem to want to march into California, that's just the opinions of his troops, as Caesar himself when asked more about the Legion outright admits that he doesn't like it's current state due to being more barbaric than civilized, and he intends to slow down and reform the Legion into something more like Rome rather than a bunch of Rome cosplaying marauders. It's ironic yet fascinating to see that Caesar himself thinks his Legion is cringe and needs to stop being so.

However, the only way for this outcome to ever come into fruition is if the Courier sides with the Legion, or aides with them long enough to cure Caesar's brain tumor before pulling the rug under them with Yes Man independence.

Storm-Fox106

15d

So let's say caesar is alive and takes new Vegas and probably has the followers deal with his brain tumor I wonder if he could actually reform the legion into something more civilized. He would constantly have to deal with holding a border with the ncr and I think lanius would throw a fit and probably splinter back east possibly leading to a legion civil war. I'm just throwing thoughts out there on what caesar could do with the legion if he had time. It's interesting that he can recognize how bad the legion is but is so hellbent on taking vegas first as just a symbol

Branded_Mango

15d

It is a fascinating topic where there is technically a possible route of hope for the Legion, but like all things Fallout it's full of holes, doubts, and unfavorable probabilities.

xMini_Wazx

15d

Yes, I forgot to put that part in about the Brain Tumor as well, thank you for reminding me.

------____--------

14d

Ya know, everybody always specifically refers to Caesar’s brain tumor; I’ve only done 2 playthroughs of the game but both times the legion guy at mcarrron just says he had headaches and looked sick. Is it just a drawn conclusion he has cancer or am I missing a part of that dialogue?

Internal-Lock7494

14d

When you side with Caesar he specifically has a brain tumor.

SapphySkies_v2

14d

The courier figures it out if you are trusted by Caesar.

xMini_Wazx

14d

This

I have seen many people assume that Ceaser himself knew that he had a brain tumor when in actual fact he has to ask the Courier what the "diagnosis/ prognosis is".

Before he even knows what's going on.

Subject_Proof_6282

105

15d

Even if the Legion wins at Hoover Dam, I firmly think it's doomed to fail as a state proper.

As others said in other topics, most of the soldiers in the Legion are following Caesar and not his ideas, the only one that we encounter and seems to make a difference between the 2 is Lanius when you confront him, but even he isn't a leader that can govern the entire Legion nation.

And with how you can disrupt Caesar's plans (the Omerta bribe, the Khan subjugation) it certainly wont last long.

DaRandomRhino

15d

Eh, most of his plans end up in assimilation or assassination anyways.

I think that the Legion isn't destined to fail, it's destined to fracture and reform as an actual Republic-adjacent with people like Lanius and Vulpes at the center.

The central theme of the Legion is effectively Unity, a thousand different tribes that have a central identity to overwrite their differences, if not their specialties or individual cultures. Cracks eventually will form before they realize that life under rule of the Legion was better than going back to tribal shenanigans. And the Legion by the point of NV has existed for a little over 40 years, more than enough time for 2 generations to have grown up in it and begun thinking of longevity over simply subjugation and expansion.

You have to remember that even the Rome he was trying to emulate wasn't the first or last construction of the Empire. It was an ongoing project and they had gone through despotic regimes before settling back down multiple times. Upheaval is the nature of long-standing governments and the Legion is no different. People just focus too much on the "evil" aspects to want to acknowledge more.

Subject_Proof_6282

15d

It also reminds me that the Legion in New Vegas looks a lot like Alexander conquests. His empire gradually collapsed and was split between his generals soon after he died.

Which is also kind of funny since the OG Caesar was aiming to be his own Alexander with his conquests and desire to install the Roman empire, which happened the other way around in his case, the empire being formed after his death.

bos_turokh

14d

I always the caesar thought of a means to an end to ensure stability. He mentions a synthesis with ncr so I wonder what that would look like. And the few references to legion territory make it seem really different from the war front

YourAverageGenius

14d

The thing is that that identity has been based around pure military force under a cult of personality based around one leader. It's shown that plenty of the Legion disagree with even bicker with each-other, and really the only authority or law is that given by force.

The problem with reform with the Legion is that it's main cultural identity isn't based around Untiy, it's based around pure might. Many don't even know about the lives of the tribes before, all they know is that some came from those tribes after they were conquered and stamped out by the Legion. Their origins are literally subjugation by force, and that's all they know, because that's all they've been trained to do. Even if Caeser would live, I could easily see plenty of the Legion, both high and low, being bewildered and confused on any attempts at reform or even to just slow in their conquests.

While maybe one of the central figures could create a republic with select groups of soldiers, the fact is that you're asking an entire nation of people, who's entire lives have been built around warfare, and who have come to see authority coming solely from conquest and might, to stop and settle down and, in some sense, hand over their power and rule by laws and codes, submit to being restricted in their ability and where they can't just use their authority to solve a problem? Even under Caeser with a successful conquest of the Mojave that would be the hardest sell ever and would fracture the stability of the Legion, unless those reforms themselves were enabled by culling dissent with violence, which even then would probably just cause more dissent as those who spent their lives and slaughtered for Caeser would feel slighted and seen only as cattle for the slaughter at his whim.

Hell, you can see this in IRL history, once the Roman Empire was fully established as an Empire, with the Emperor at it's head, many Emperors got their position purely through military might, either by a coup from the Legions who were bought by someone to become Emperor, or by generals and politicians who simply garnered enough clout with their own Legions to convince them to push for them to be Emperor. And this continued on and on and was even inherited by the Byzantine and Ottoman empires, and this is not some local or happenstance thing, this can be seen as a pattern across history. And the only reason those states were able to stay together is because they had a unifying history and people,, they had something beyond the current ruler, they weren't just people or soldiers or slaves under the Emperor or Sultan, they were citizens of a state with a rich culture and history which naturally flowed through time, they weren't made by one man's conquest, they were the result of decades of slow progress which saw the rise and fall of many peoples and changes which solidified their unique identity. Alexander the Great, despite his title, created no state or nation, he simply made war, and when he died, and there was nothing or nobody to reinforce his will, that which he made was fractured and stolen by those who stood closest to him, and thus those with the most to gain.

Once Caeser dies, what is there besides the word of Caeser to sustain the Legion? There's nothing, because Caeser hasn't built a state for there are no laws besides the authority he gives, there's no nation besides that which is to fight and die for Caeser, he's built naught an army with borders. And for all the shit you can give House, which honestly in some ways House has the potential to be worse, at least he understands how to build a state and a nation, his just happens to be built on the sins of the Old World.

durashka228

15d

the legion dies with caesar - he will die anyway

hes an old man and even if tumor not kill him or a courier the legion is doomed. even with win on Strip they will just continue the infinity raid with killing and slaving

its not build to last forever,its literally a giant army of raiders who will die if stop killing and stealing

lasyke3

14d

Caesar agrees to some extent, that's why he's worked himself up with (his interpretation) of Hegelian dialectics and how this conquest will transform the legion. He doesn't expect the legion to continue on in its current form.

REEEthall

15d

I'm fairly sure that most people who acknowledge that Caesar Legion would win the 2nd battle of hoover dam, also acknowledge that the legion would struggle massively to push past the Mojave and into California as the NCRs weaknesses are diminished (Shorter supply lines, much more motivated soldiers as they're defending their homeland, political support...). This is even stated by Lanius if you speech/barter check him, as he himself is unsure on the whole idea of conquering California and judging by his dialogue would much rather continue expending the legion East rather than West.

gabrielmogeko789

15d

I think there is a main problem when people say Caesar would win Against NCR, first because its Canon that Caesar is suffering from a brain tumor, and also the fact that the Legion is suffering from a lack of competent generals, (not counting Lanius because he just wants to beat everyone into submission), and also the fact even with all the problems NCR still have greater Armory on their hands and weapons

Caesar can only win if NCR makes a slip up, but even them its possible that NCR Will regain their power even without Courier Help

Impressive-Control83

14d

The legion isn’t suffering from a lack of competent generals. Lanius isn’t the brute everyone loves to think he is. His conquests in the east and the strategy he uses against the Damn both show he is a competent tactician who doesn’t just charge his enemies. He doesn’t have a stomach fro espionage but he does engage in battlefield misdirection. And we see others such as Aurelius of Phoenix who show that the officers of the legion are competent. The only truly incompetent officer example we have is Joshua Graham who was so consumed by a religious bloodlust he failed to adapt to the new threat of the NCR.

Also the NCR is already slipping up everywhere thanks to the frumentarii. People overlook just how infiltrated the NCR actually is. Every weak point gets exploited and every piece of intel ends up in legion hands, they have the Mojave in chaos because of this.

I do agree the legion can’t take California in its current state but it has a very good shot of taking the Mojave

Other_Log_1996

14d

The main issue the NCR has fighting the Legion is they're short on manpower and supplies because their main supply line is no longer available. That issue makes the Mojave difficult to reinforce or mount a powerful offensive.

However, that is not an issue on their home turf. They don't have to move troops or supplies nearly as much in their home, and they likely have many ways to do so.

Meanwhile, as the Legion pushes Westward, they would only have I-15 to get into California without getting past some pretty difficult mountains. They would also have to do this without supply lines of their own, since they're pretty far from Arizona, and they can't get through CA 190 any better then NCR can.

Diceyboy16

14d

I love how much effect a brain damaged mailman has on a state. Not only are we the deciding factor in the four possible Mojave leaderships, we are also able to single-handedly conquer anything we wish.

Benny shooting some dude in the head directly leads to the deciding factor in a war. That will always be amazing

xMini_Wazx

14d

It really is isn't it

They took, "one man can change the world" as a challenge and did it lol

ChristianLW3

15d

Yaboii made an excellent video explaining why & how the legion would win without courier

https://youtu.be/o7lBYg-9MGU?si=lI9ybvRHp4f28_0s

Gwtheyrn

14d

The Legion probably wins the battle, but they had already lost the war by the events of New Vegas.

Caesar's cancer would kill him within the year. It's questionable whether Lannius could hold the nation together, but even in a best-case scenario, he has to head back home with already-depleted forces to secure his position and put down rebellion. He is stuck back in Colorado for two to three years minimum.

The NCR has far better logistics and, with their vehicles, can move forces back into the Mojave much faster than Lannius could get reinforcements. The Legion can take Hoover, but they can never hold it.

TwStaryPijany

15d

Assuming there's any NCR to fight against after 2nd battle. Just look how far frumentari have gone in their sabotaging missions. Without courier and with ncrs inaction frumentari basically can do whatever the fuck they want. Possible damage done before the battle might be huge.

And they certainly wouldn't be stopped by ego-tripping mummy who cannot trust anyone, therefore he can only sit on his ass while others are plotting against him. He can be taken by starvation of NV's population (blocking new vegas in and out), who knows how that would turn out. Casinos turning against house totally possible. And don't forget legion has numbers, they would eventually, with big sacrifice, defeat robots

Morally twisted van graffs can be turned on legion's side. Especially promised safe trading route's I guess (I might be wrong, I slept on that faction). Crimson caravan can be starved also by blocking Mojave Outpost entirely. This goes for NCR reinforcements too

All of the above only if Benny is out of the question. I really believe he would succeed if prepped accordingly, without courier's visit

xMini_Wazx

14d

With the Van Graff's, as I put in the main post, for me they wouldn't side with him simply because as stated in-game already by Gloria Van Graff.

"And he (Caesar) doesn't have friends. Only servants. And the Van Graffs serve no one but themselves".

Now if Gloria was killed prior to this moment (I see this as 100% unlikely simply because in-game this does not happen unless the Courier does it, and as S/he is removed in this situation, Gloria is still going to be alive).

So they are still going to double cross Ceaser due to the aforementioned reasons.

Impressive-Control83

14d

Gloria wouldn’t side with Ceasae but they’re also not gonna fight in the Mojave. They’re only here for a new branch of buisness but If the dam falls that business dies so I see the Graffs packing up and going back to California. Only in California do I see them pushing back and assisting the NCR.

Even then though we’ve seen how the Frumentarii are masters at ruining trade and harming caravans. They Fru’s may just begin to do the same things further west they did in the Mojave and slowly bleed the Graffs and the Crimson caravan of the caps they need to maintain those forces.

xMini_Wazx

14d

Exactly, when the NCR withdrew from the Mojave as stated in the game for a Legion victory, none of the aforementioned parties, Van Graff's, Crimson Caravan would stay.

That would be utterly insane for them to do so.

I beleive if the Legion tried to push into NCR proper, I do forsee that those parties would involve themselves and aid in smashing the Legion.

Do you think the Frumentarii would have that much of an impact on those mentioned parties where it would have a detrimental outcome if the NCR and Legion took to the field due to that?

Impressive-Control83

14d

All I can say is Vulpes tells us in a legion playthrough that they already have agents in California. We’ve seen the damage the frumentarii are doing here in the Mojave in an active war zone where rangers are trying to stop them, imagine what atrocities they could be setting up out west where no one even realizes they are infiltrated at yet.

xMini_Wazx

14d

That is fair, yeah I agree

TwStaryPijany

14d

Ok, there's a debate with no answers but again how long will freeside stay under lockdown, before junkies riot the fuck outta van graffs out of desperation. There's like 10 of them in the shop. Or if the ceasar will just let them be, like with free people in Arizona. Why wouldn't they oblige since for them it will be business as usual, just under other flag. They may have mercenaries around, but certainly not that much in freeside. They probably would be roaming around, securing gun deals

xMini_Wazx

14d

We're not talking about the Mojave in this scenario with this post.

If you read it all, Ceasers Legion won the second battle for hoover dam, so the NCR would end up pulling out as they do in the end slide of the game, and we are talking about is how would Ceasers Legion even be able to win if it tried to push into NCR propper with all of these things working against them.

I would just say go back over reading the main question again because you are talking about something different that what was being asked.

Weaselburg

14d

He wins via the same strategy that won him the Mojave, somewhat. Sabotage, infiltration, and waiting. The NCR are already destined to suffer really, really heavily (more or less collapsing in canon), and the longer they wait the weaker the NCR gets, especially if they try mounting more campaigns against the Legion. In the end, the NCR does end up collapsing canonically, so that point (or the point just before it) would be perfect for the Legion to swoop in and do the funny synthesis.

The NCR isn't DESTINED to lose that battle, they could POTENTIALLY turn themselves around, but we know in canon that they don't, and it's very difficult for them to do so.

DandalusRoseshade

14d

Homie, there's no goddamn chance the Legion wins that war; they're good at guerilla style operations and overwhelming forces, throwing wave after wave of their own men at problems. It's why they lost the first damn battle, and why Graham was tossed. Lanius is literally no better tactically, he's just a beast. Couple this all with Caesars literal brain tumor that is actively killing him as the game plays, and it's a ridiculous notion to think the Legion could possibly win.

Worse comes to worst, House comes in mid battle and wipes the Legion away and takes the damage to himself, but it's not as guaranteed as with the courier

googolple3

14d

What no reading comprehension does to a person.

xMini_Wazx

14d

They do win it anyway though in-game if the Courier.is not aiding the NCR or Mr. House.

Have you played the game and followed the story?

With how much the Courier has to do for the NCR and Mr House, without the Courier being able to do that, you do understand that is what this scnarior is right?

If you side with the Legion you have to do very little for them to succeed.

Impressive-Control83

14d

My thoughts on the many private militias and armies that can be found in the NCR, the Barons and the Caravaners is that in NCR core territory they would not likely help -at first-.

These people are greedy and out for money not the stability of the NCR. However Legion frumentarii and raiding parties are going to be able to sustain a March west quite well off the glut of raiding these people, and they most certainly will. This really gives the Brahmin Barons, the Van Graffs and the Crimson Caravan one of two choices: they can either A.) devote their vast forces of muscle and money toward protecting their caravans and cattle, which will reduce legion raids but probably not actually stop them, thus just slowing the bleed

B.) devote their full resources to helping the NCR military thus probably becoming more vulnerable to legionary predations but helping ensure and overall defeat and removal of the legion from their lands.

As to which option they choose entirely depends on how greedy you think these groups are and whether you think they can overlook their own greed and selfishness long enough to embrace the greater good. Fallout has a narrative on this baked in but it really is up for interpretation

xMini_Wazx

14d

I really like this take, it really adds to the mechanisation at play if this scenario was takes place if a Legion push was to happen.

WhatTheDuck00

15d

Yeah I think NCR would lose Hoover Dam. Too many things working against them,even within their own military. They don't have the numbers and support they did for the first campaign. They needed to suicide bomb boulder city to turn the battle the first time around. When Caesar dies the power vacuum will be huge. Someone from within the Legion would want to seize the power having hoover dam would entail. With that being said if House found a way to get his Securitrons updated, he most likely wipes them out afterward.

Pixelblock62

14d

They needed to suicide bomb boulder city to turn the battle the first time around

Eh that's not really true. The Legion was taking heavy casualties on the dam from NCR snipers and the NCR made a strategic retreat to finish of the remaining legionaries. The Legion's strategy of just throwing well trained men at the enemy without any planning failed spectacularly. The Legion can take the dam, sure, but they would really struggle to keep that momentum. The NCR would get its shit together real quick if the Legion poses an actual threat to core NCR territory, similar to how the US had a massive recovery after Pearl Harbor.

WhatTheDuck00

14d

Yeah I'm saying it was still close the first time around while seemingly the NCR were better equipped. And I'm solely talking about the 2nd battle of hoover damn. I think the NCR would win after another go around. There's just too much going against them during the events of New Vegas, almost to an incompetent degree.

Pixelblock62

14d

The NCR is very incompetent in the Mojave and are basically operating under every nerf possible. This is only possible because the NCR sees the Mojave as a distant issue and no politician wants to risk upsetting the general public too much by committing to it. That all would change real quick once news of the Legion's advance travels back West and the public starts demanding revenge. Again, much like how the anti-war sentiment of the US disappeared after Pearl-Harbor.

Weaselburg

14d

The NCR are sending everything they can into the Mojave, they degradede to the point of sending nearly unequipped conscripts with 2 weeks of training into the region en masse to try to hold the region. An NCR defeat results in them being unable to take the Mojave, because they lose so many troops and so much equipment that their already buckling army just can't do anything more than defend the Mojave Outpost. The NCR economy is on the verge of bankruptcy if they don't win the war quick, and LOSING the war, to such a degree that happens with Caesars plan, would very easily push them into that. Without the Courier, the Legions victory is more costly, but it is still total. Caesar dying might ruin a lot of chances for reforming it into something truly powerful, but Lanius isn't stupid, just focused. Taking the Mojave is a very big boon for them.

Also, you can talk to a NCR soldier who actually did fight at the first battle of hoover, and they explicitly call it a shitshow and not to believe the brass about it.

Famous_Historian_777

13d

The legion has a strong army so they would win the battle but when caesar dies the legion falls cuz they follow caesar not shi ideology

donnie1199

13d

The problem is the brain tumor. Because Cesar in New Vegas does not have an Octavion.

AyyLmaoAytch

-1

15d

Even if the Legion temporarily took Hoover Dam (and, no, they wouldn't, Caesar is a brain-damaged idiot with moronic sycophants for generals who think a bunch of teenagers with machetes and hockey pads running straight into small arms fire is a recipe for anything other than a pile of machetes and dead teenagers in hockey pads) and advanced into the Mojave, they'd fucking lose to Mr. House (once again, we're talking about idiots who will send teenagers with machetes and hockey pads against machine guns and grenade launchers, oh, but, but, muh chlorine-- robots don't breathe, dumb ass).

As far as conquering the NCR? The Legion has about as much chance of that as fascist Italy had of soloing the United States. The only reason the Legion weren't already crushed like the insignificant bunch of hillbilly dipshits they are is because most people in the NCR don't want the fight. An actually serious, total mobilization, Order No. 227 Moment NCR would obliterate the Legion in a matter of weeks.

xMini_Wazx

15d

They would take Hoover Dam though.

When siding with the NCR you have to help them so much just to ensure that they have a fighting chance.

Stopping the Bomb from going off on the Monorail, stopping the undercover spy Captain Curtis that continues to pass trooper movements to the Legion that then get's fed to the Fiends so that they can ambush NCR patrols.

Stopping the Omertas attack on the Steip, saving President Kimball.

The stronger Fiend attack on Camp McCarran.

The Great Khans attacking the NCR from behind at Hoover Dam.

The destruction of Camp Searchlight leading to the establishment of Cottonwood Cove.

The annihilation of Ranger Station Charlie.

The Capture of Nipton.

Mr. House would not have his army of Securitrons as the Courier is dead/ not involved, so the Platnaium chip would never have been used to upgrade the Securitrons either. (Benny would still end up being captured).

If the Courier is not in this equation at all to stop all of this, why wouldn't the Legion win the Second Battle for Hoover Dam?

It happens in-game anyway with very little help from the Courier. (Just play the NCR side and do nothing and watch the dominoes fall).

This thread is based off of in-game answers and what characters say and do, not changing or adding parts to alter an outcome.

SapphySkies_v2

14d

Don't forget Hanlon leading the Rangers astray to try to save all of their lives from what he considers a meat grinder

LesserValkyrie

14d

I love how all of these things are thanks to the frumentarii / Caesar abilities to have contacts

If Lanius obtains power (after Caesar's death), he says he will use less of these tactics, IIRC he doesn't like using frumentarii. He is a good general but Lanius is unable to use all the strong assets the Legion has that Caesar knew how to use efficiently

NotPrimeMinister

14d

I think an important distinction to make is that the Legion would win the Second Battle of Hoover Dam, but they would not actually conquer Vegas. I think it would primarily just move the battle line much farther into NCR territory, with the Legion taking everything east stopping at Nipton and Camp Golf.

For the total Legion victory we see in the ending slides, I think they need the Courier's intervention as much as the NCR does to push them over the finish line.

Impressive-Control83

14d

You really ignore morale with this guess. The NCR is only here for the Dam. They want Vegas but they don’t own it yet. The political will in this region is to hold -the dam-. Without it the NCR congress has nothing to justify being in the Mojave and the demoralized troops have zero reasons to keep fighting a losing battle (in their perceptions)

They’re gonna pull out not because they can’t hold some ground but because without the power of the Dam and the water of the Colorado, there’s no political will to stay.

Of course the NCR will likely come back one day but in the short term a full pullout makes sense.

xMini_Wazx

-1

14d

More so the scenario of the question presented in the thread is they did based off of in-game actions.

If they Legion win in-game, it states the NCR pull out, and that is the basis for this scnarior, it's not, "What if's" outside of that spectrum.

And my question was, with people saying the Legion could push into NCR proper, I gave reasoning as to why that would not be possible.

I do appreciate your theory though if it was a "What if"

Wildwes7g7

14d

Well, that's all well and good, but I'd killed the Van Graffs soooo

maroonmenace

ok boomer

14d

well, legion is built on fascist ideals, and in real world the equilivant is scary but burns out quick.