Deconstructed. Fundamentalist wife. Indoctrinated kids. Stay or go?

When they go to college try to subtly push them to a secular school. Some people just need a little time outside of the Chrisitianity bubble and everything falls apart

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Well, since you asked for advice, maybe give it 10 years? You're likely to end up financing that Christian school education anyway, which sucks. But you'll be ever-present, and hopefully a reminder that good non-Christians can exist.

When the 8-year-old is 18, reevaluate. It'll be less strain and expense at that point anyway.

As a dad who stayed in a marriage because I was trying to be the subtle voice of reason to over the top religious propaganda from ex and her parents thinking I was doing the right thing, only to be dropped like a bad habit and alienated from my daughter because I was "going to hell"....you have to do what is best for you, and hope that when it is right, your children will find you. I haven't seen my daughter since 2020, and haven't had any meaningful conversations with her since mid-2019, my hope is that she remembers the talks I had with her about remembering that Love is the only thing that matters, and that as someone who went to 5 years of bible college, and 2 years of seminary as he was deconstructing (as opposed to 0 years of bible college and years of fox news from the other side), that if she ever had a time when things just don't make sense anymore, that I am always here for her.

She will be 20 in 2 months. I miss her like crazy. Dream about her often, and wonder if she wonders about me. She changed her name to her step-dad's because they all bought into the MAGA propaganda. One of the last photos I saw of her and her mom years ago was of them wearing "Fake News" Halloween costumes. As much as it gives me pain, I also have incredible peace not having to deal with the craziness and hope in whatever higher power is out there that she will is ok.

Absolutely possible to make it. My wife super religious, me fully deconstructed. Kids will figure it out.. and if they don’t and embrace fundamentalist Christianity..so what? You’ll still love them. Don’t die on that hill.

I'm just going to focus on the kids part of your post.

Instead of trying to convince your kids to not believe their indoctrination, Show them how freaking cool science is. Don't even frame it as if you're trying to disprove what they've been taught.

Take them to a NASA space center. The one in Houston has a space shuttle you can walk through and it has a real Saturn 5 rocket. It's awe inspiring.

Or you can go see a SpaceX launch in a bunch of places. They launch their falcon 9 rockets all the time.

All you need to do is to light the spark. The big thing is not to force them to choose between one and the other.

Wait until the kids are older, they’ll develop their own beliefs and you can be more present in their lives, especially if you and your wife are still comfortable together. It’s hard to be the black sheep and honestly I don’t think I’ll ever tell my family I’m not Christian anymore. Things will get easier as they get older. I and most of my peers went to Christian private school and many of us deconstructed.

Your children are slowly getting to an age when they'll have outside influence and they'll start using their brains more. At least the older kids. A few more years and parental pressure will mean less.

I don't know about you and your wife - I totally understand you wanting to leave. I'd be more worried about the kids. You may be able to get closer to your kiddos by doing activities together. Do they spend more time with their mom? It's normal they have a closer connection.

Have you tried doing activities? Anything. Sports. Daytrips. Museums. Just you and kid time. Maybe one on ones, with all three, once a month, so everyone gets equal time and attention. Places where you spend quality time together but they also learn about the environment, life, culture, the people.

Editing to add: whether you stay or not... if you want to have a relationship with your children, you have to try to create a bond that is non-judgmental. They already get a ton of judgment and threats from religion; what you need to work on is for them to understand that whatever happens, they can come to you and talk to you. When they get older and have doubts, they won't be able to go to anyone else, but you, but only if you establish that trust now.

Please, if you can stand it from your own mental health standpoint, don't leave. Your kids need you. Your wife probably still wants you around.

Many studies have shown that the majority (probably the very large majority) of kids raised in evangelical/fundamentalist households will leave the church as adults. Your kids are their own people. Even if they are being fed a ton of propaganda now, they will reach a point where they will question it. They may deconstruct, they may not (though I think everyone does to some degree, even if they remain in the church). But you may be a lifeline to them when they go through that. You may have to wait 10-20 years, but don't let them feel like you abandoned them.

In the meantime, as others have said - encourage them in any way you can to think critically. Just being exposed to other viewpoints, as long as you're not derisive or purposefully antagonistic, is so important for them. Even if it seems like they're not listening to you, they are! They may just not have the framework yet to understand. You can encourage them to join secular activities, where they will be exposed to things they wouldn't otherwise. You can encourage them to go to a secular college (though even Christian colleges can expose kids, more gradually, to new ideas and perspectives).

They're gonna be okay. If it's not doing harm to you to stay, be there for them.

If your wife is treating you well, and you can deal with the bombardment of Christian stuff, I say stay.

You can be an example to everyone of the moral atheist, and this will cause some cognitive dissonance.

I know this is hard, my coming out was the only time in our relationship that the "d-word" came up. I can't pretend to know what it is like for you as our family was far more liberal (not science denying, or anti-LGBTQ, etc.). So I cannot say that it will work out, but if you and your wife work at it, it is possible, even if no one converts.

I wish you well on your journey.

I honestly wouldn't budge on the anti-science and anti-LGBTQ stuff. That shit is actually harmful and regressive for your kids. Evolution has been demonstrably proven correct. Like, there is no contention in the broader scientific community. And what if one of your kids are queer? Do you think being around a homophobe is going to help them?

In your situation, (getting along otherwise with your wife, financially stable, kids are generally content), I might just hold steady and consider the long game. 

I guarantee every single one of them, wife included, will have moments they question or doubt something.  You are there to be a resource, a listener, and validate their concerns.  Along the way, you plant a few seeds here and there.  ("Gosh, the god of the Old Testament really commanded the killing of babies.  So different from Jesus."  "I feel really bad for Job's wife and kids.  They seem like innocent victims of God's bet with the devil."  "I never understood why God needed a blood sacrifice to forgive us, but then commanded we just forgive our enemies. Why couldn't he just forgive us because he loves us?"  And on and on...) 

I would focus less on the science/creationist debates, as almost all churches and parochial schools arm their attendees with responses and " evidence" to refute rational claims.  

Even if you consider yourself to be an atheist, discussing the nature of God, as portrayed in their own book, can be really eye opening.  Is God consistent or does He wildly change?  Is His nature that of love and forgiveness or anger and pettiness?  It's impossible to fully dismiss the acts of the deity in the Old Testament.  It will absolutely leave lingering doubts. 

For your wife, play on the mothering aspects.  If she, as a flawed human mother, could forgive her children simply because she loves them, why can't God?  Would she ever want to damn her children to a place of eternal torment simple because they made expected human mistakes?  How can she worship a deity that commanded "His" people to kill the innocent babies of another tribe, just because they were inhabiting the "promised land?"  Would she endorse that of any human people or culture? 

I really think you have an excellent chance at revealing truth to your family.  If you leave now, you might miss the opportunity to be that light of reason and rational thought.  You'll just be the enemy. 

It worked for my husband.  Over years of questions and strategic conversations, I realized everything he was saying was true.  I had known it in my heart and spirit for quite some time, but I was in a lot of fear and denial. We're stronger than ever now--we see eye to eye and are raising our children to be smart, critical thinkers, yet still tolerant and loving people.. 

Ironically, your wife is violating the biblical standards of a wife with respect to intimacy and likely in other areas of marital and family life as well. You are obviously not in the charge of family or married life. She is. But, apparently she, her parents, her pastor and everyone else around you doesn't care about that part of the Bible.. If you stay, the best you can do is probably what you're doing now. Perhaps, you can develop some outside contacts and activities to stay emotionally and intellectually refreshed. Biblically, she cannot divorce you unless you are unfaithful and she finds out (something to think about). As far as the children are concerned, they may deconstruct when they're adults and realize that you were right all along. That's the best you can hope for, and it can happen obviously. Before that, they will be turned against you if you seek a divorce. A divorce at this time means a complete break from your current life, including your children. You'd be starting a totally new life at 51.

My gut is that this is beyond Reddit's paygrade.

I would leave. I don’t think you can ever be happy in your current situation. It would drive me crazy, especially with those in-laws across the street

I am in a similar situation although much younger (kids range from 3-8). At first I thought we’d need to divorce, but we just had a lot of honest conversations and we were able to get to a point where we both are intentionally choosing to respect the other’s right to share our life and beliefs. Idk how that will look over the years but I decided that our commitment to our family was bigger than our religious (or non-religious) beliefs. It certainly won’t be neat and tidy since our beliefs are likely to clash at times, but I really don’t want to be a dad who is absent/seen as the bad guy. I’ve been honest with my wife about that, perhaps some raw conversations about that would bring things in a better direction for you. People disagree on this but I’m of the opinion that divorce with kids involved is often a messier and more painful choice, even if there seems to be “freedom” on the other side.

Best of luck, sir

If you get 50% custody in a divorce then you can finally teach the kids science without the looming surveillance of the Christian community. You can have private conversations with the kids. They might still report to their mom, but who cares. It’s not like you’re hiding your belief in science and your deconversion.

I’m really surprised at the “don’t leave for the kids” comments. This is the opposite of what I believe. I wish so badly my mom and dad had separated. You both need a partner who believes in you. In YOU. Your kids will model their future choices on how they see their parents facing hardships. Personally I would do individual and couples therapy towards a goal of what is best for you AND then the kids and then her in that order. Remember you must put on your own air mask first, eg get your own shizzit straight before you try…before you even can be of real help to others.

I was put in christian school for all of my middle school and it put me years behind in math and history. I’m still friends with the friends I made then and they’ve all deconstructed since.

My advice would be to ensure their academics are on par with secular education. Your kids will wise-up eventually, but don’t try to force anything now. Subtly is the name of the game.

There’s a good chance your kids will come to their senses if you use the bible itself to plant the seeds of doubt (number 1 reason I deconstructed was reading the bible on my own). I’d be happy to dm you my compilation of “wacky” bible verses to help you get started. You can just present some contradictions and play dumb: “Can you help me make sense of this? These seem to be at odds with each other”.

LGBTQ is wrong and out to destroy families as we know it.

Sounds like religion is destroying this one.

The 14 yo is coming to the age of reckoning themselves. Patience is key here, and also modeling that someone who doesn't believe that bs can be a good person. Modeling instead of evangelizing is how it should be done anyway, no matter what the belief system. If you show them that you are accepting of whatever they choose to believe, and accepting of them individually the rest will happen naturally if it ever is going to.

Are you happy in this current situation or unhappy? Is this harmful to your children as is, or would it be more harmful to split up your marriage and household? If your wife loves you, and you her, can you go to couples therapy and work out an arrangement on how to parent the children in a way that works best for you both? What exactly would you want to change in your household? What specifically is wearing you down the most?

I think these questions are all important things to consider. If you didn't have children, I'd say leave. But you do have children, and it's hard to discern the details of your whole life based on one post, but it seems like your marriage might be salvageable.

If you leave, I suspect you will be villianized and the situation will worsen in terms of having a strained relationship with your children. Personally, I'm not sure I would choose that route as a parent, but it all depends on how bad this all feels for you and whether or not you believe your children's lives will be better if you split with their mother.

Since you otherwise get along in the home wait till youngest is 18 then divorce. Doing so beforehand will financially devastate all of you and fill your kids with hatred against you for turning their childhood upside down. I understand your frustrations, but life won't necessarily be happier to get out of the fundamentalist household yet lose your children and an otherwise loving wife. Speaking as a longterm single person living alone finding an partner that your have everything in common with who is also loving and not argumentive or verbally abusive or an alcoholic is near impossible to find at any time in life so doing better than the woman you have now is highly unlikely. I mean more women are religious than men so you already have that going against you being an ex-christian man. If you live in bible belt there's few women who aren't brainwashed.

And speaking as someone whose dad remarried your kids will not accept a different woman than the woman who raised them. So if you did divorce and remarry you can forget a relationship with your kids. You will just be paying out the wazoo for child support. You got more going for you than many of us so don't throw it away. Just hope society changes in a way that the extremist fundies start realizing the problems with their beliefs and when your kids are old enough steer them to a non-religious college and preferably out of state so they have an opportunity to get away from the church bubble they are in, away from the religious relatives who will otherwise coherce them to continue in church as young adults.

Stay but end all participation in religious matters. Makw her make the decision to go.

Teach them how to critically think vs how their mom is teaching them - to magically think. The kids can take it from there.

Please just try to spend time with them, listen to them, take an interest in their development. That's enough.

It sounds like you're being abused, honestly. I would at least speak to an attorney, a lot of them do consultations for free. But we only know so much of your life from reading these few paragraphs. Divorce with young children is sooo messy, and when you have an insane parent who seeks revenge for it, they will make you go back and forth to court so many times and it'll get expensive real fast. If you want to stick it out, therapy is a must for your own sake.

Ugh. I grew up like one of your kids. It took my now wife asking me questions for years.

You don’t even have to ask them specifically religious questions.

I think a large portion of my own Christian beliefs were just taking my parents word for what was true or not. The more I learned about science and HOW we learn objective truth using science, the more I realized religion couldn’t be correct. Especially young earth, there’s experiments you and your kids can do to demonstrate the age of something. That’s the best part about facts, you don’t have to have faith in order for them to be true.

So my situation was similar in many ways. I was a young single mom and my mom was your wife. She quit work to watch my daughter while I worked. They paid for her to go to a partially great Christian school (the academics were far better than the public but taught the nonsense stuff, too). I was pushed by my mom and step dad. If I don't do this I'm a terrible mom, etc. I needed their support. Well, not really, I allowed them to make me feel that way because they wanted control.

My daughter was lost to my mom's beliefs. My mom believed all the same stuff. She would burn things in the yard that were considered witchcraft or evil. She believed invisible entities were fighting over your soul. The literal devil on your shoulder. She also was all in on the rapture. Her idea of it came from that Christian movie. I think it was Left Behind. Which is not biblical. She watched TBN and cried.

It was hard. I would try to balance my daughter but it wasn't until she hit 7-8th grade that she started to question and understand. She is respectful to their beliefs now but she formed her own views. She does not regret going to Christian school but sees the hypocrisy and hate that was taught there.

There is hope. But what happens then? Does your wife turn on them or you or constantly evangelize? This is a hard situation. The best thing would be to talk to her, ask her how she would feel if you decided to dictate your beliefs to the children and disregard hers? Maybe there is a way to get through to her. You can still believe in God and the Bible and understand it's not literal and respect facts and science. Maybe counseling? There are those rare pastors that don't teach fundamental, literal BS. Maybe enlist someone to help?

I'm sorry. This sucks. I give you so much credit for handling this with grace. Divorce won't solve this either. It will cause so many more problems. Good luck.

Your kids are young. Let them see you experience life outside church instead of pushing your beliefs on them. It can cause confusion and make your child feel as though they have to choose a side. I do have compassion for you bc I understand the urgency and fear you may feel. I still panic when my 16 year old talks to me about religious stuff. Will she ever see the truth behind the church (cooperation)? I hope so! But I cannot force or manipulate my new beliefs on her. She’s now asking questions timidly and I think she’ll eventually “see” but all I can do is support and show her where my happiness comes from now that the church no longer controls or supplies it. Good luck. I know how frustrating it can be!

Divorce then. 50% custody is better than almost no influence.

There is still a chance you can correct this. Learn Street Epistemology and about Epistemology in general. Results won't happen overnight and take some time. Remember that Superstitious thinking took a hold of your life because it bypassed your critical thinking skills, so try to remain sympathetic to those who are still controlled by these beliefs. Learning about logical fallacies will also be a massive help.

Check out Anthony Magnabasco's channel to learn how to use this method of street Epistemology.

https://youtu.be/mwBF5cSRHFA?si=ywjlmcJhTz4FFnTi

stick around and ask the odd critical question every now and then and over time they will realize how wrong they are

Tough call. If you stay, don't debate. Get good at Street Epistemology. Look up Anthony Magnabosco.

I didn't leave Christianity until i left home. i would encourage your kids to question but be aware their mom will try to push them back into Christianity

Why is it your responsibility to get the divorce? How about seeking out the relationships that make you happy, and push thoughts about divorce down the line? Right now talk of divorce seems so theoretical. But if you found the new ‘love of your life’ well then the situation changes.

If you leave it’s all on you. If she pushes you out that’s different. Different too, if you come to a mutual agreement that it isn’t working out. Find someone who makes you happy is my advice.

A lot of that sounds very toxic. It sounds more complicated than I'd be comfortable leaving to reddit, maybe you can find a counselor or something to talk this over with.

leave but push for full custody of kiddos

Think of it this way. You deconstructed two years ago. So at some point you also believed as they did and probably even reinforced those teachings. You have a responsibility to your children to love and support them. Which means loving and supporting them as they navigate life and their own beliefs. Everyone has their own moral compass and discovers their own moral truth at their own speed. 

Side note: your concern with being "demonized" is a selfish reason to stay or leave. A valid reason would be a difference in moral beliefs. 

You’re kinda making it sound like you want to leave your kids for holding those values and that’s really strange. This isn’t a normal line of thinking for a parent and how your children act shouldn’t be stapled on to a list of reasons as to why you want to leave your wife. Maybe I’m lacking nuance here.

Keep teaching the truth, calmly and correctly. Don’t let your wife shut you down, don’t let her ban correct information and let her freak-out and become “demonic” when you refuse to succumb to her mythology.

Counter everything with facts. Brush-up on the reality of the ≈500 versions of the Christian Bible and ≈20,000 official versions of Christianity (it’s hard to give it a capital-C with that many variations).

Why does this read like your kids are such an afterthought?

Stay to save the kids!

It doesn't sound like a horrible marriage. I had to leave mine because there was no peace. You have peace.

As for the kids, I think kids always pick their own religion anyway when they grow up.

Keep your vows bro

Divorce is harmful to kiddos