&nbsp;

Discussion regarding the potential collapse of global civilization, defined as a significant decrease in human population and/or political/economic/social complexity over a considerable area, for an extended time. We seek to deepen our understanding of collapse while providing mutual support, not to document every detail of our demise.

* * *

Overindulging in this sub may be detrimental to your mental health. Anxiety and depression are common reactions when studying collapse. Please remain conscious of your mental health and effects this may have on you. If you are considering suicide, please [call a hotline](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/hotlines), visit [r/SuicideWatch](https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch), [r/SWResources](https://www.reddit.com/r/SWResources), [r/depression](https://www.reddit.com/r/depression), or seek professional help. If you are seeking support, please visit [r/CollapseSupport](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapsesupport). Suicidal content will be removed. Suggesting others commit suicide will result in an immediate ban.


* * *

###**Subreddit Events**
- **[Local Observations](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/sticky)**
- **[Common Questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/commonquestions/)**
- **[Book Club](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/bookclub/)**
- **Casual Friday**: low effort and meme posts allowed only on Fridays
- **Science Sunday**: science and research posts are encouraged on Sundays (allowed outside Sunday as well)
- **[Surveys](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/surveys)**
- **[Stickies and Megathreads](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/stickies)**


* * *

&nbsp;

###**[Unofficial Discord](https://discord.gg/collapse-415671701549088790)**

This Discord's rules and moderation team are not the same as r/Collapse.

###**[Unofficial Lemmy](https://lemm.ee/c/collapse)**

This Lemmy instance's rules and moderation team are not the same as r/Collapse.

###**[Collapse Wiki](https://www.collapsewiki.com/)**

A comprehensive introduction to collapse.

###**[Common Questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/commonquestions/)**

Our common question series.

###**[Last Week in Collapse](https://www.reddit.com/u/lastweekincollapse/)**

Weekly updates on collapse by /u/lastweekincollapse 

&nbsp;

###**Subreddit Rules**

1\. Be respectful to others. You may attack each other's ideas, not each other. Do not glorify violence.  

2\. No marketing, self-promotion, surveys, astroturfing, or other spam.  

3\. Posts must be on-topic, focusing on collapse.  

4\. [Keep information quality high.](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims)  

5\. Content must be properly sourced.  

6\. Post titles must accurately represent their content.  

7\. Post quality must be kept high, except on Fridays. 

8\. No duplicate posts.  

9\. No [common questions](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/commonquestions).  

10\. Link posts must include a submission statement. Do not submit links as self posts.  

11\. Submissions with [in-depth] in the title have stricter post length and quality guidelines.  

12\. Local observations belong in the Weekly Observations thread.  

13\. Do not post more than three times within any 24-hour period.

[More detailed rules are here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) Please report posts/comments which break Reddiquette or our rules.

###**Transparency**

- Removed posts are put in /r/collapse_wilds
- Moderator discussion is in /r/collapsemoderators
- [Public Moderation logs](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cppV69sdHKbZG_65Z2JnDkjb7vxcC_238gFpgCqSoIU/edit?usp=sharing)
- [Moderation Guide] (https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/moderationguide/)
- [Subreddit statistics](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/statistics)
- [Banner Image Sources](https://imgur.com/gallery/i7FkcWu)
- All self posts (text posts) are assessed based on the following criteria:
   - does it have nuanced takes, rather than sweeping generalizations?  
   - does it deepen our collective understanding?  
   - does it largely avoid platitudes?  
   - does it cite sources?  
   - does it explore a topic in an original way?

###**Community**
- [Apply for User Flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/flair)
- [Apply to be a Moderator](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/apply)

&nbsp;  
  
###**Related Subreddits**

- /r/antiwork 
- /r/BiosphereCollapse 
- /r/BottleNeck  
- /r/collapse_parenting
- /r/CollapseArt 
- /r/collapsademic
- /r/CollapseScience 
- /r/CollapseSupport
- /r/CollapseMusic 
- /r/CollapseNetwork 
- /r/CollapsePrep 
- /r/collapze
- /r/communityprep
- /r/DieOff 
- /r/economicCollapse
- /r/ecophagy 
- /r/globalcollapse
- /r/GreatDepressionII
- /r/LateStageCapitalism 
- /r/overpopulation
- /r/peakoil
- /r/PostCollapse
- /r/Shortages 
- /r/stockmarketcrash
- /r/WWMMD 


&nbsp;  
  
###**Regional Subreddits**

- /r/CollapseIndia (India)
- /r/CollapseUK (UK)
- /r/collapseUS (USA)
- /r/colapsoES (Spain)
- /r/collapsologie (French)
- /r/effondrement (French)
- /r/Kollaps (German)
- /r/collapsepolska (Polish)
- /r/CollapseAwareBurltnVt (Vermont)
- /r/CollapseAware_MA (Massachusetts)
- /r/collassoallitaliana (Italy)

&nbsp; 



###**Resilience Subreddits**

- /r/homestead
- /r/permaculture
- /r/preppers
- /r/rad_decentralization
- /r/resilientcommunities
- /r/selfreliance
- /r/simpleliving

&nbsp;

###**[Support Communities](https://www.collapsewiki.com/support/)**

- /r/CollapseSupport - Mutual support for those struggling with collapse-awareness.
- [Safe Circle](http://livingresilience.net/safecircle) - Weekly video call for support and reconnection.
- [Good Grief Network](http://goodgriefnetwork.org/) - 10-week online program for building personal resilience in light of collapse.

&nbsp; 

###**Lectures**

- [r/collapse youtube playlist](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtzeuU0FBnYeXURLMSVc2rile-bSqdaQH)
- [Collapse: The Only Realistic Scenario](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc&feature=youtu.be) - Arthur Keller (2019)
- [How to Enjoy the End of the World](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8&feature=emb_title) - Dr. B. Sidney Smith (2019)
- [Arithmetic, Population, And Energy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI1C9DyIi_8) - Albert Bartlett (2002)
- [Why Societies Collapse And What it Means for Us](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0R09YzyuCI) - Joseph A. Tainter (2010)
- [Unfixable: Welcome to the New Abnormal](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBiTnBwSWc) - Chris Martenson (2011)
- [Energy, Money and Technology – From the Lens of the Superorganism](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DpfsqjQbP0) - Nate Hagens (2018)
- [Revealing the Naked Emperor – Paris, 2° & Carbon Budgets](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPEbIEc1n0s) - Kevin Anderson (2018)
- [An Inconvenient Apocalypse](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKfivBCbsY&ab_channel=FacingFuture) - Wes Jackson, Robert jenson (2022)
- [Greenland ice melt - why climate communication is conservative](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpEUkrzDW6c&ab_channel=JasonBox) - Jason Box (2022)

&nbsp;

###**Books**

- [Most Recommended Books](https://www.letstalkthis.com/collapse/#books)
- [Collapse Monthly Book Club](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/bookclub)
- [Collapse Booklist](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/books)

&nbsp; 

###**[Documentaries](https://www.collapsewiki.com/media/#documentaries)**

&nbsp; 

###**[Podcasts](https://www.collapsewiki.com/media/#podcasts)**

&nbsp;

###**Resources**
- [Collapsology Database](https://collapsology.info/en/science/)
- [Collapse Lingo](https://github.com/akaleeroy/collapse-lingo)
- [Deep Adaptation Forum](https://www.deepadaptation.info/)
- [Ecosophia](https://www.ecosophia.net/)
- [Let's Talk Collapse](http://www.letstalkthis.com/collapse/)
- [Life Itself Blog](http://patzek-lifeitself.blogspot.com/)
- [Our Finite World](http://ourfiniteworld.com/)
- [Peak Oil Barrel](http://peakoilbarrel.com/)
- [Peak Prosperity](https://www.peakprosperity.com/)
- [Post Carbon Institute](https://www.postcarbon.org/)
- [Post Doom](https://postdoom.com/)
- [Resilience](https://www.resilience.org/)
- [Resilience & Transition](https://www.resilience-transition.fr/discord)

&nbsp;

###**Papers**
- [Societal Collapse And Intergenerational Disparities in Suffering reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/zu4m9t/societal_collapse_and_intergenerational/)

<div class="md"><p>&nbsp;</p>

<p>Discussion regarding the potential collapse of global civilization, defined as a significant decrease in human population and/or political/economic/social complexity over a considerable area, for an extended time. We seek to deepen our understanding of collapse while providing mutual support, not to document every detail of our demise.</p>

<hr/>

<p>Overindulging in this sub may be detrimental to your mental health. Anxiety and depression are common reactions when studying collapse. Please remain conscious of your mental health and effects this may have on you. If you are considering suicide, please <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/hotlines">call a hotline</a>, visit <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch">r/SuicideWatch</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/SWResources">r/SWResources</a>, <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/depression">r/depression</a>, or seek professional help. If you are seeking support, please visit <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapsesupport">r/CollapseSupport</a>. Suicidal content will be removed. Suggesting others commit suicide will result in an immediate ban.</p>

<hr/>

<h3><strong>Subreddit Events</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/sticky">Local Observations</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/commonquestions/">Common Questions</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/bookclub/">Book Club</a></strong></li>
<li><strong>Casual Friday</strong>: low effort and meme posts allowed only on Fridays</li>
<li><strong>Science Sunday</strong>: science and research posts are encouraged on Sundays (allowed outside Sunday as well)</li>
<li><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/surveys">Surveys</a></strong></li>
<li><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/stickies">Stickies and Megathreads</a></strong></li>
</ul>

<hr/>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://discord.gg/collapse-415671701549088790">Unofficial Discord</a></strong></h3>

<p>This Discord&#39;s rules and moderation team are not the same as <a href="/r/Collapse">r/Collapse</a>.</p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://lemm.ee/c/collapse">Unofficial Lemmy</a></strong></h3>

<p>This Lemmy instance&#39;s rules and moderation team are not the same as <a href="/r/Collapse">r/Collapse</a>.</p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://www.collapsewiki.com/">Collapse Wiki</a></strong></h3>

<p>A comprehensive introduction to collapse.</p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/commonquestions/">Common Questions</a></strong></h3>

<p>Our common question series.</p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://www.reddit.com/u/lastweekincollapse/">Last Week in Collapse</a></strong></h3>

<p>Weekly updates on collapse by <a href="/u/lastweekincollapse">/u/lastweekincollapse</a> </p>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<h3><strong>Subreddit Rules</strong></h3>

<p>1. Be respectful to others. You may attack each other&#39;s ideas, not each other. Do not glorify violence.  </p>

<p>2. No marketing, self-promotion, surveys, astroturfing, or other spam.  </p>

<p>3. Posts must be on-topic, focusing on collapse.  </p>

<p>4. <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims">Keep information quality high.</a>  </p>

<p>5. Content must be properly sourced.  </p>

<p>6. Post titles must accurately represent their content.  </p>

<p>7. Post quality must be kept high, except on Fridays. </p>

<p>8. No duplicate posts.  </p>

<p>9. No <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/commonquestions">common questions</a>.  </p>

<p>10. Link posts must include a submission statement. Do not submit links as self posts.  </p>

<p>11. Submissions with [in-depth] in the title have stricter post length and quality guidelines.  </p>

<p>12. Local observations belong in the Weekly Observations thread.  </p>

<p>13. Do not post more than three times within any 24-hour period.</p>

<p><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/">More detailed rules are here.</a> Please report posts/comments which break Reddiquette or our rules.</p>

<h3><strong>Transparency</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li>Removed posts are put in <a href="/r/collapse_wilds">/r/collapse_wilds</a></li>
<li>Moderator discussion is in <a href="/r/collapsemoderators">/r/collapsemoderators</a></li>
<li><a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cppV69sdHKbZG_65Z2JnDkjb7vxcC_238gFpgCqSoIU/edit?usp=sharing">Public Moderation logs</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/moderationguide/">Moderation Guide</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/statistics">Subreddit statistics</a></li>
<li><a href="https://imgur.com/gallery/i7FkcWu">Banner Image Sources</a></li>
<li>All self posts (text posts) are assessed based on the following criteria:

<ul>
<li>does it have nuanced takes, rather than sweeping generalizations?<br/></li>
<li>does it deepen our collective understanding?<br/></li>
<li>does it largely avoid platitudes?<br/></li>
<li>does it cite sources?<br/></li>
<li>does it explore a topic in an original way?</li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

<h3><strong>Community</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/flair">Apply for User Flair</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/apply">Apply to be a Moderator</a></li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp;  </p>

<h3><strong>Related Subreddits</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="/r/antiwork">/r/antiwork</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/BiosphereCollapse">/r/BiosphereCollapse</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/BottleNeck">/r/BottleNeck</a><br/></li>
<li><a href="/r/collapse_parenting">/r/collapse_parenting</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseArt">/r/CollapseArt</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/collapsademic">/r/collapsademic</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseScience">/r/CollapseScience</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseSupport">/r/CollapseSupport</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseMusic">/r/CollapseMusic</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseNetwork">/r/CollapseNetwork</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapsePrep">/r/CollapsePrep</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/collapze">/r/collapze</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/communityprep">/r/communityprep</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/DieOff">/r/DieOff</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/economicCollapse">/r/economicCollapse</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/ecophagy">/r/ecophagy</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/globalcollapse">/r/globalcollapse</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/GreatDepressionII">/r/GreatDepressionII</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/LateStageCapitalism">/r/LateStageCapitalism</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/overpopulation">/r/overpopulation</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/peakoil">/r/peakoil</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/PostCollapse">/r/PostCollapse</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/Shortages">/r/Shortages</a> </li>
<li><a href="/r/stockmarketcrash">/r/stockmarketcrash</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/WWMMD">/r/WWMMD</a> </li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp;  </p>

<h3><strong>Regional Subreddits</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseIndia">/r/CollapseIndia</a> (India)</li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseUK">/r/CollapseUK</a> (UK)</li>
<li><a href="/r/collapseUS">/r/collapseUS</a> (USA)</li>
<li><a href="/r/colapsoES">/r/colapsoES</a> (Spain)</li>
<li><a href="/r/collapsologie">/r/collapsologie</a> (French)</li>
<li><a href="/r/effondrement">/r/effondrement</a> (French)</li>
<li><a href="/r/Kollaps">/r/Kollaps</a> (German)</li>
<li><a href="/r/collapsepolska">/r/collapsepolska</a> (Polish)</li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseAwareBurltnVt">/r/CollapseAwareBurltnVt</a> (Vermont)</li>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseAware_MA">/r/CollapseAware_MA</a> (Massachusetts)</li>
<li><a href="/r/collassoallitaliana">/r/collassoallitaliana</a> (Italy)</li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp; </p>

<h3><strong>Resilience Subreddits</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="/r/homestead">/r/homestead</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/permaculture">/r/permaculture</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/preppers">/r/preppers</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/rad_decentralization">/r/rad_decentralization</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/resilientcommunities">/r/resilientcommunities</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/selfreliance">/r/selfreliance</a></li>
<li><a href="/r/simpleliving">/r/simpleliving</a></li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://www.collapsewiki.com/support/">Support Communities</a></strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="/r/CollapseSupport">/r/CollapseSupport</a> - Mutual support for those struggling with collapse-awareness.</li>
<li><a href="http://livingresilience.net/safecircle">Safe Circle</a> - Weekly video call for support and reconnection.</li>
<li><a href="http://goodgriefnetwork.org/">Good Grief Network</a> - 10-week online program for building personal resilience in light of collapse.</li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp; </p>

<h3><strong>Lectures</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLtzeuU0FBnYeXURLMSVc2rile-bSqdaQH">r/collapse youtube playlist</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPb_0JZ6-Rc&amp;feature=youtu.be">Collapse: The Only Realistic Scenario</a> - Arthur Keller (2019)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8&amp;feature=emb_title">How to Enjoy the End of the World</a> - Dr. B. Sidney Smith (2019)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI1C9DyIi_8">Arithmetic, Population, And Energy</a> - Albert Bartlett (2002)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0R09YzyuCI">Why Societies Collapse And What it Means for Us</a> - Joseph A. Tainter (2010)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBiTnBwSWc">Unfixable: Welcome to the New Abnormal</a> - Chris Martenson (2011)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DpfsqjQbP0">Energy, Money and Technology – From the Lens of the Superorganism</a> - Nate Hagens (2018)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPEbIEc1n0s">Revealing the Naked Emperor – Paris, 2° &amp; Carbon Budgets</a> - Kevin Anderson (2018)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKfivBCbsY&amp;ab_channel=FacingFuture">An Inconvenient Apocalypse</a> - Wes Jackson, Robert jenson (2022)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpEUkrzDW6c&amp;ab_channel=JasonBox">Greenland ice melt - why climate communication is conservative</a> - Jason Box (2022)</li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<h3><strong>Books</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.letstalkthis.com/collapse/#books">Most Recommended Books</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/bookclub">Collapse Monthly Book Club</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/books">Collapse Booklist</a></li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp; </p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://www.collapsewiki.com/media/#documentaries">Documentaries</a></strong></h3>

<p>&nbsp; </p>

<h3><strong><a href="https://www.collapsewiki.com/media/#podcasts">Podcasts</a></strong></h3>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<h3><strong>Resources</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://collapsology.info/en/science/">Collapsology Database</a></li>
<li><a href="https://github.com/akaleeroy/collapse-lingo">Collapse Lingo</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.deepadaptation.info/">Deep Adaptation Forum</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.ecosophia.net/">Ecosophia</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.letstalkthis.com/collapse/">Let&#39;s Talk Collapse</a></li>
<li><a href="http://patzek-lifeitself.blogspot.com/">Life Itself Blog</a></li>
<li><a href="http://ourfiniteworld.com/">Our Finite World</a></li>
<li><a href="http://peakoilbarrel.com/">Peak Oil Barrel</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.peakprosperity.com/">Peak Prosperity</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.postcarbon.org/">Post Carbon Institute</a></li>
<li><a href="https://postdoom.com/">Post Doom</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.resilience.org/">Resilience</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.resilience-transition.fr/discord">Resilience &amp; Transition</a></li>
</ul>

<p>&nbsp;</p>

<h3><strong>Papers</strong></h3>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/zu4m9t/societal_collapse_and_intergenerational/">Societal Collapse And Intergenerational Disparities in Suffering reddit post</a></li>
</ul>
</div>

t5_2qhw9

Discussion regarding the potential collapse of global civilization, defined as a significant decrease in human population and/or political/economic/social complexity over a considerable area, for an extended time. We seek to deepen our understanding of collapse while providing mutual support, not to document every detail of our demise.

<div class="md"><p>Discussion regarding the potential collapse of global civilization, defined as a significant decrease in human population and/or political/economic/social complexity over a considerable area, for an extended time. We seek to deepen our understanding of collapse while providing mutual support, not to document every detail of our demise.</p>
</div>

##Read the Rules Before Posting:

* Posts MUST focus on civilization's collapse, not the resulting damage.
* Link posts must include a submission statement (comment on your own post) describing the post and how it relates to collapse.
* NO provably false material (e.g. climate science denial).
* NO low effort content (e.g. memes) except on Shitpost Fridays.
* Do NOT post more than three times within any 24-hour period.

<div class="md"><h2>Read the Rules Before Posting:</h2>

<ul>
<li>Posts MUST focus on civilization&#39;s collapse, not the resulting damage.</li>
<li>Link posts must include a submission statement (comment on your own post) describing the post and how it relates to collapse.</li>
<li>NO provably false material (e.g. climate science denial).</li>
<li>NO low effort content (e.g. memes) except on Shitpost Fridays.</li>
<li>Do NOT post more than three times within any 24-hour period.</li>
</ul>
</div>

'Exceptionally dangerous situation:' Historic California heat wave putting millions at risk