www.roadandtrack.com/news/a61486151/south-carolina-sheriff-buys-ford-mustang-gts/
South Carolina Sheriff Buys 17 New Ford Mustang GTs for His Department
Sounds like pure bullshit to me. This sheriff has been hoodwinking this community for 25 years now and gotten away with it.
Yea the whole 'we kept a lot of police identifiers like light bars off to maintain the cool look' just sounds like not want to have unmarked cars but wanting them as unmarked as they could plausibly get away with.
Especially when a light bar on a mustang would look pretty cool.
Barricade in the first Transformers film was the coolest looking car
That generation Saleen was honestly one of the greatest looking mustangs. Not wildly overdone, but still looked fresh.
Yeah that Saleen kicked ass
Need For Speed had a GT500 police car and it’s rad!
Not sure about SC (or if this is universal), but some states regulate the use of unmarked police cars. Leading to chickenshit stuff like taking a black vehicle and putting matte black markings on it.
SC , judging from the police cars I've seen, has zero laws about constitutes a traffic patrol cruiser. Maroon 90s Taurus Wagon? Sure. F-150? No problem. No markings, hidden lights, antenna facing downward in the license plate area, civilian license plate instead of permanent license plate, any impound is fair game, any color, any model. They are out there and ready to ask you why they pulled you over.
ghost writing on a black car is tip of the iceberg.
This is SC though, so a Mustang GT will in fact get the locals walking up and talking. If they wanted to pull you over, it would have "In God We Trust" plates, blue lights behind the glass and in the exterior light Assemblies and you will be sitting on the side of 26 wondering what just happened. Just not as bewildered as when the 96 Ford Taurus Wagon pulled you over.
Wa state it's illegal to enforce traffic laws with an unmarked car. Supposedly according to the head wasp the license plate is enough to identify them. I don't agree but whatever.
In the town I live in now they have a “marked car” that is black with black stickers on it. Super dumb. I don’t understand American cop’s obsession with being hidden. They should be obvious so you can find them if needed, like basically the entire rest of the world.
American cops are too busy cosplaying secret military to be helpful to the community
t. Super dumb. I don’t understand American cop’s obsession with being hidden.
if you cant see them then they can more easily write you a ticket for speeding. and becuse in the US traffic infractions are (generally) handled by individual cities/towns/etc. their local police forces are incentivized to write more tickets to help fund the department itself.
THIS approach is because large swaths of american townships believe that "government should be run like a business" and that "Departments should be able to fund themselves". so to balance the budget and avoid cuts police departments increase revenues i.e. write more traffic tickets.
In fact in large parts of the american south (who are known for their subtlety) there are entire counties that are known speed traps and keep the taxes for their constituents artificially low by engineering predatory, unavoidable routes that generate MASSIVE revenues. And because these counties are usually very remote, people just pay the whole ticket instead of fighting it and coming back to town, because the cost savings wouldnt be worth it.
Not just the south. Speed trap towns exist here in Indiana too. Nothing about our current law enforcement structure is set up to serve and protect
Huh? Unmarked police cars are a very normal thing in European countries too. Standard looking Audi, VW, anything really. Then they have like a single light on the front and rear windshield or one of those magnetic ones for the roof.
Difference is they don't skirt around the fact that they're just that.
Never know when that grey 3 series BMW is gonna pull you over on the Autobahn.
In my small town we are talking about 3/4 cars being unmarked if you don’t count black stickers on a black suv with hidden lights as marked and the other 2 being just flat gray dodge durangos. There is one marked ford explorer that they use and that’s it. They have a marked crown Vic but it only leaves the police station during the yearly festival
Agreed. People don’t come up and talk to police because they’re afraid of getting caught up in an abuse of power. True or not, the police have a big image problem that a few muscle cars won’t fix
Or just the simple fact that I don't walk up to and talk to the vast majority of people I see. Moderately cool car or not.
Also most people who are into cars arent into mustangs. Well, not new ones anyways.
I dunno. I think most who are into cars would enjoy talking to a friend about that friend's new mustang GT. But I don't think it's exciting enough of a car to talk to a stranger about it.
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They’ve been using Mustangs and even Camaros in the Carolinas for decades. Nothing new.
1985 is when I started spotting them. We had been outrunning their Crown Vics.
Saw an unmarked Orange Mustang on I85 in Kannapolis a year or so ago, thought it was some douche trynna do some Mustang stuff (I said while driving a Mustang)
Same as every police force in the country. Cars are the least of the problem
They were using Camaros and chargers before. And they’ve used mustangs in the past. At least in SC they only buy American cars.
They were using Camaros
I saw this one LivePD
Sheriff in Georgia tried the same argument when he used federal funds to get himself a Hellcat.
https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/feds-gwinnett-sheriffs-hellcat-violates-drug-money-rules.amp
See I like what they did in Marion County FL…they turned a confiscated Hellcat into a pursuit vehicle
Doesn't that just encourage pursuits to go into incredibly high speeds, which increases likelihood of the death of an innocent?
From 1996 to 2015, an average of 355 people were killed annually in pursuit-related crashes. In 2014-2018, over 2,000 people were killed in police pursuits.
in 2017, there were 9,343 pursuits in California. 2,474 resulted in collisions- that's 26.5%. 32 deaths and 1,419 injuries resulted from those pursuits.
Source with sources: https://safer-america.com/high-speed-police-pursuits/
You want to know one thing police can't do well? Drive.
Putting a hellcat into the hands of an overstimulated rage machine that has zero driver training sounds like a good way for the department to be out 50k on the sale of a hellcat and millions more on the inevitable lawsuit. Or sorry, the municipalities, not the department
Cops get driving training. State troopers get quite a bit of it considering most of them spend a large part of their day driving and patrolling in their vehicles.
Yeah your average patrol cop isn't Steve McQueen, but cops are far better high-speed drivers than your average felon.
but cops are far better high-speed drivers than your average felon.
This isn't exactly saying much though. I'm a much better golfer than the average person, but I'm still a 25 handicap.
Even with training, it's not like that makes high-speed pursuits remotely safe, it just makes them very slightly less dangerous than if a random were driving the car.
Great analogy.
but they also have a bunch of extra trash in their car like laptops and thick back cages reducing visibility, extra gear they wear that probably reduces some movement, distractions like radio, phone, laptop, siren blocking hearing, etc.
sure they have training but there are lots of other factors working against even a good driver.
They also get firearms training but plenty can't hit the broadside of a barn.
Why do you think that? Because it’s certainly not true. That’s a common presumption, but a false one
Most cops don’t receive training beyond a 30mph parking lot. Ask me how I know
You want to know one thing police can't do well? Drive.
They can't fuckin shoot either! Reminds me of this Ron White bit
IIRC I don't think it's a pursuit vehicle, more of a showoff kind of thing
We are talking about florida…
And you, what, think Florida Man is going to drive carefully when pursued?
No i’m saying it’s a lawless swamp anyways so of course they don’t give a shit about the public good…high speed chases in my state are nonexistent because police don’t chase
Wasn’t Florida the one that ended up shooting a couple folks in traffic and a delivery driver?! And then the delivery company thanked the police for killing their employee?
I still remember that baffling story.
They did something similar in NY. Suffolk PD has a mustang cobra. It's only used for show now, but it was originally confiscated for racing and turned into a highway patrol vehicle
NYPD was doing that back in the 90s. (I think one had a Paxton on it too)
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mustang/comments/9gs2i3/these_were_confiscated_from_street_racers_in_the/
Do the Mustangs have as much utility as Explorers or Tahoes? How do you arrest somebody when your squad car is a Mustang?
Shoot first, plop em' in the trunk, ask questions later
Don’t even have to shoot, the mustang will do the huntin for you
Just pull out of the parking lot like you're leaving cars & coffee.
The closest thing they have to a good argument for this is pursuit vehicles/traffic stops. Then you just arrest them and haul em off in something else. Maybe DARE use if that even still exists.
Its not like the entire fleet is Mustangs. Presumably the idea would be the Mustang cop chases the felon until they can be stopped and detained and then another cop in a 4 door vehicle hauls them to jail.
I don't know that a Mustang is really needed considering even the Tahoes can sustain 120 mph, which would cover 99% of pursuits, but you can at least kind of see the logic.
It takes a Tahoe an awfully long time to get to 120 and it's considerably less safe to stay at that speed than a mustang.
Both are stupid tho. Cops shouldn't be encouraged to go that fast because their minimal driver training isn't enough to make them safe drivers at that speed and innocent people will absolutely be killed.
Cops run children over in their Tahoes
Exactly. Im not in support of unmarked cars, but I’d rather give cops Mustangs than Explorers and Tahoes/suburbans
Considering hood heights and the fact that the Mustang is sold in markets with actual pedestrian safety laws I’d rather have them putting around in those than the Tahoes the sheriff’s dept over here uses
Yes, exactly!
A HiPo officer I know says that the stang is as a pursuit vehicle and is given as an annual award to an officer and then that officer does the parades and school visits for kids.
Michigan state police arrest and put people in their front passenger seat. Not saying it’s a good idea but it’s definitely been done
Seems like a Mache would actually make more sense.
They have to call in the Tahoe or Explorer...so much excessiveness.
Yeah but then the Tahoes are driven less, and less likely to be in a pursuit
Cop cars cost so much to outfit. Most will add an additional 15-40k in additional equipment and labor.
My guess is that they bought these for a few reasons. 1) they could get their hands on these quickly and get them on the streets to replacing something aging 2) these will not be patrol vehicles and the cost to upkeep them is cheaper
At the end of the day we’re talking about 17 cars in a fleet of more than 700 cars. This isn’t much of a story
Honestly fuck Leon Lott dude is dirty as hell
Edit: local resident here, I’m familiar with Richland County and the culture of their sheriff’s dept. They are professional extortionists, hell Lott beat a case a few years back. Your gut instincts are correct this is probably just another way to wash the money they get off the street.
im guessing i dont wanna search that name.
How he’s still Sheriff after acquiring two surplus Gov aircraft and then selling them against Gov surplus regulations is still a mystery to me.
My city PD is like this. They have a bunch of Camaro "ghost units," (white car, white lettering, no exterior light bar) donated by a local professional athlete recently that they use exclusively for traffic duty.
They justify them for use in "outreach" via photo ops at cars and coffee...and people do go up to them there. But that's a controlled environment. No way in hell I'm having a casual conversation with a cop for any reason outside of that, because...
I don't think outreach attempts by cops are designed to get random people coming up to them on the street. Using a high performance cop car to show up at a cars and coffee for a photo op is exactly the type of outreach they are for.
The idea is that if you're hosting a potentially high-risk event like C&C that you feel comfortable letting the cops know about it so they can help with planning or patrolling. Whether it works probably depends far more on the individual cops in your department more than the car they are driving, but if they are donated vehicles anyway, I don't see the problem.
I bet lawyers don't think that's so cool.
Don't talk to pigs kids.
Nearby county police has a Mach E GT they just trot out at public events to show off.
However he did say they didnt really cost any more that explorers or tahoes, so thats alright.
He is probably right about that, but the mustang is unlikely to do the same job. You can put people and equipment in the back of a tahoe or explorer. Not so much with the mustang.
He’ll even a charger is better because it has 4 doors
It’s a non story. Imagine “police department buys new cars.” So?
At first I was like that's obvious misuse of funds. But considering the mission I'm intrigued. I would like to see a 5 year study and crime data. Additionally I'd like to see community survey information over the next 5 years. Crime stats are just as the name implies stats, what's also important is the human impact; do people in the targeted neighborhoods feel safer over a 5 year period utilizing these officers.
Lott noted that the cost of the Mustang fleet was no more expensive than typical Chevrolet Tahoe or Ford Explorer police vehicles.
Even if nothing comes out of it, it’s no worse than their usual fleet (apart from fuel economy and whatnot). This program sounds wonderful
Chevy Tahoe isn't getting good fuel economy itself
Yes, Mustangs absolutely get better fuel economy than a Explorer/Tahoe, even with comparably sized engines. Tire life on the other hand…
the GTs have 5 liter dual overhead cam V8s the explorers either have a 3.3 V6 or 3.5 turbo v6. i wonder if the GTs really get better mileage
The 3.5L turbo get slightly worse real world gas mileage than the 5.0L in the EXACT same F150...
So yes, the mustangs absolutely get better gas mileage.
Another point: My 4,600 lb, 707HP Hellcat got the same gas mileage as my 5,600lb, 395 HP Ram 1500 brick... and the brick had cylinder deactivation.
I drove a non-police version Explorer for work and was averaging high teens. Admittedly, about 20% of the driving was pretty rough off-roading for a stock SUV, so maybe not overly representative, but even a V8 mustang likely does better than that.
The real concern is idle performance. Cop cars idle constantly when not in motion. I don't have any data, but I would imagine a 5 liter V8 uses significantly more fuel at idle than a 3ish liter v6.
I believe the Ford Police Interceptor Utility Vehicle uses the 3.7 rather than the retail 3.5 in the older models and 3.0 Ecoboost (21/28) or 3.3 (NA-17/25) in the newer models. So….Mustang gets worse. But police cars spend so much time idling, i wonder if it really matters. I dont know what the economy is for either at WOT
WOT the 5.0 is probably more efficient than the 3.7 being a high performance engine, and it is definitely a lot better than the 3.5 because turbo engines typically have 20% higher WOT bsfc (except the 992.2 gts that has probably the lowest bsfc in any road car)
Had a 2020 GT and my wife has a 2015 explorer. My mustang got better fuel economy than her explorer does. She only gets like 20mpg
Have had a 16 Mustang GT, and a 17 Tahoe. Tahoe was a tad bit more efficient.
I was wondering why everyone in the comments seems to be mentioning this line as if it's a good justification, but then I realized it's just you over and over again.
It doesn't really matter if the total cost was the same. They spent the same money on less effective cars. A fleet of Mustangs can't police the same way a fleet of Explorers and Suburbans can.
I mean, you can’t put a suspect in the back of a mustang. The utility factor is a lot worse, in terms of doing the job of police car.
You know what's way more effective?
Having officers outside of cars, like walking around or on bikes. They're a thousand times more approachable than an officer in any car.
I certainly think there's a case to be made for community policing, and cool cars can certainly help foster conversations with the public. But most police depts that do this do it by doing things like wrapping confiscated sports cars up in P.D. liveries, and it's a one-off thing. Buying 17 brand-new Mustangs at $55,000 a pop seems like poor fiscal decisonmaking.
Also, the team that uses them only has 15 members, and they bought 17 cars.
The +2 is to account for the downtime that’ll come from needing to service the fleet, as well as to take account for vehicles becoming U/S for whatever reason.
Thank you. The person you responded to must have never worked with equipment. You always need back ups.
Considering (according to the article) they’d cost the same as explorers or tahoes and assuming they’d get new cars regardless, I don’t think it’s that poor fiscally
A Mustang doesn’t serve as many different use cases for law enforcement as those vehicles do though. They aren’t going to be able to safely transport a suspect in a Mustang, or access areas in rough terrain so they’re still going to need those other vehicles anyway.
Which is fair, but it goes both ways, you don’t need a truck to report to (according to the article) faulty street lights
They aren’t replacing their entire fleet or anything. If all you need to do is show up to a school intersection then take the mustang and get the kids excited
You don't need a 55k V8 premium fuel only muscle car to report faulty street lights either. A Prius would get the job done perfectly without continuing to waste citizen tax dollars but that's police for you.
They want to encourage people to chat with them then they need to start being trusted and not bastards who abuse the system.
You can both not be a bastard and also have a cool car to give kids something to talk about.
Choice was between this or a tahoe or similar pursuit suv, would rather they have a few sedan types than more suvs on the road.
Plus a gt fastback starts at 42k and I don't think the fuel economy or maintenance is any worse than a tahoe.
A Prius would get the job done perfectly without continuing to waste citizen tax dollars
Many governments have "buy American" rules in place - a Prius would absolutely fail in that respect.
Which begs the question why such a rule must exist in the first place.
Why might taxpayers want their tax dollars buying products from companies based at home? Does that really take any explanation?
But this is a 25 year program. I'm guessing they were a lot more than crown pics, Ford Taurus, and chargers.
I was going to assume the same but I also assumed these cost more than a police-prepped explorer
But it doesn’t, so I suppose we can guess all we want. Perhaps camaros were cheaper than a taurus
Inwouodnt take the sherrifs word that they're cheaper anyway.
Apparently the standard police interceptors start at 50k. A GT (42k) with a few addons should come under
But if you're buying 17 at a time... I worked in a small government municipality and know they got discounts
I imagine same goes for the mustang in that case
Why's that? They're not a massively manufactured thing like the other car which all other departments buy
To me letting cops use confiscated cars is way way worse than them buying a mustang for that purpose. The former incentivizes cops to confiscate private property on dubious grounds and further incentivizes them not to return it. The last thing anyone should want is cops being allowed to steal from innocent people and keep their spoils.
If they need a car for outreach or high-speed pursuit, they should have to buy it out of their ordinary budget.
The more undercover cars they have the more I hate that police department.
Explorer police interceptor utility starts at $47,165
Pretty clearly a misuse
They have used marked and unmarked sports cars by the balitmore tunnel for 30 or 40 years I'm sure they could pull some data from that
Our local PD had a donated 1969 Camaro that they pumped out to be the D.A.R.E. car. It certainly drove people to talk to the cops.
Florida has a history of using impounded or seized vehicles for PR stuff.
But buying new mustangs just for PR seems a bit much.
Could certainly aid recruitment, which seems to be a big issue these days. But I’d keep a close eye on the department spending to see if they have an indulgent trend.
He has his made up reason but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a stupid reason.
which the department hopes will help start conversations and build relationships with the community at large.
Lots of hopium there. Sounds like the sheriff just likes buying muscle car for 30 years. Give whatever name you want to the team, it seems like a pretty wasteful use of resources.
I’m certainly glad to see them driving these around over even more wasteful and more dangerous f150 or suburbans. Whic is beyond dumb. https://www.reddit.com/r/wisconsin/comments/11acgp0/child_dies_after_being_struck_by_pickup_truck_in/
It's Richland County. They're always trying to be the showiest department out there.
Well they are on live on-patrol.
It is a waste of resources.
And again, they’ll get away with it because there are no effective checks on power.
Their reasoning kinda makes me hate it more lol. Like the DARE program preachers in middle school & youth pastors trying to be cool & hip, or obviously suspicious guys in the 70s trying to buy their way into popularity and getting laid with a sports car.
Do other states have challenger highway patrol cars? We have them in Kansas. Seems about roughly the same utility.
My hometown had a bunch of Camaros back in the 90s with a similar justification
I have seen a 4th gen camaro in full Kentucky State Police livery pull someone over fairly recently.
Charger has 4 doors, Mustang has 2. Seems like a key difference to me.
Not chargers, challengers. Granted I only see challengers for highway patrol.
Wow I definitely need to learn to read
That’s what the trunk is for. Teaches the criminals a lesson.
Florida Highway Patrol has a bunch of unmarked Mustang GTs for traffic enforcement in addition to all the marked Chargers. They love going for street racers and enticing them with the 5.0 too, kinda grimy to me.
Which do I hate more, street racers/takeovers or unmarked police cars lol.
I've seen them in other states. Staties in Maine also occasionally drive Mustangs to chase down speeders.
Arizona is full of unmarked sheriffs in cool ass cars, it's unfortunate because you're always checking for light bars instead of putting the pedal down.
My county had a red challenger and a blue challenger and they almost always had somebody when I saw them.
Living in Phoenix, I’ve seen police in unmarked Kia Souls with doing traffic control. You can’t trust anybody.
Not state police but Lake County, IN has a few widebody Charger Hellcats and Trackhawks. Don’t think they have any Challengers.
I hope they put “To Punish and Enslave” on the sides of them
GTA V IRL
If I was paying taxes here I would be pissed
don't worry, your state government is spending money on equally stupid shit that you probably don't even realize!
Doesn’t make this any less egregious
I live in SC and I cannot fucking stand our police forces. They refresh their fleets with brand new Explorers and Tahoes every other year. Huge waste of taxpayer money.
Don’t forget idling 24-7 while they eat or just sit there. Free tax payer funded fuel.
I’d rather they buy Mustangs than military surplus.
Tbh I’d rather this than more Tahoe’s, Explorer’s, etc
Except they won’t use them. You can’t put someone in the back of a mustang. You can’t respond to calls w them. What are they useful for?
Anytime they’re going to do cop stuff they’ll need 4 doors.
I think there are a few niche use cases, but frankly I blanket support anything that involves anyone buying sports cars, reason be damned.
The government already wastes plenty of my money and won’t ever stop I’m ok with them at least wasting it on something cool.
Your seized "drug" money at work.
They love blowing that civil asset forfeiture money. I consider it legal crime.
The real cause for concern is that he didn't finesse his way into a Dark Horse for himself. What kind of sheriff misses out on the trappings of power?
Pedestrians are in danger! ⚠️
They’re not f150 patrols
Oh great. Now I have to look out for mustangs too. At least they're marked.
You should always be hyper vigilant of your driving when mustang drivers are in the vicinity. At any moment one of them could light up their tires, go across the lanes of traffic, over a curb, and down into some trees. I saw it on YouTube!
Especially if you are a pedestrian, the mustang is hungry
True!
It's Richland County. Most of their revenue comes from pulling speeders on I-20, I-26, and I-77. They've been running sports cars for decades.
Cool.
so he says it's a PR stunt. my guess is it's to bring in more revenue from speeders
Mustang GT or not I'm still going to worry about getting shot in the face because I looked at them in a manner they found threatening.
I remember growing up when the State Patrol got some Mustangs for highway use. I think they phased them out pretty quick because they're pretty terrible patrol cars.
Being a cool sheriff isn't going to make him less of a terrible one.
If it doesn't cost more than it would for their other patrol cars and they were due for cars anyway I don't see the issue.
Without reading the article I knew this had to be Richland county and Leon Lott. Can’t we just go back to the seized drug dealer cars for community outreach? We had quite a few in Richland county at one point.
These cars are a whole lot less cool with the department wrap on them, might as well be a Toyota Corolla
Here in France, the “Gendarmerie” not per say the same thing as the sheriffs departments but still, used to have WRX STIs, Megane RS, they do now have Alpine A110s for their French equivalent of Highway Patrol. Very cool cars.
Keeps the community energized at all times. Lol. What?
I think a Hemi V8 Dodge Charger with 4 doors would be enough for any high speed chases, right? And they could apprehend the perp, too.
Its' always fun when your playing with your sugar daddy's money.
Growing up in Florida there was a green mustang GT that chased down speeders between bridges (literally patrolled “the island”). Completely unmarked and tinted out. Would try to race people and if they went for it he pulled them over.
should've made them undercover cars...
You guys know sheriffs are elected, so anyone with enough campaign money can become very powerful law enforcement.
Don't sheriffs also get to keep the money from the jail budget that isn't used?
I’m sorry but unless you live there, who would see a mustang trying to pull you over and think “imposter.” Weird choice
Sure, they cost about the same as a typical cruiser but have way less practicality. They have less space for equipment, tiny rear seats, no bash bar, and no awd. These will be exclusively used to fleece the public of their money from taxes and for traffic tickets instead of actual crime. They will still need to purchase at least a few typical cruisers that can do police stuff. What a waste of resources.
I mean maybe if they take them to cars and coffee.
Vote for the
200iq move to retain employees in what is likely a shit place to be a cop.
Wowwa weewa
But can’t fix them roads in SC yeah okay 😂
Tax dollars down the drain. Southern states are out of control with this shit.
Idk I’m not in the south and my local pd has an armored personnel carrier and an rv that is a “mobile command center”. They’ll hopefully never use either, they just bring them to fairs and stuff for kids to look at. I’d rather they have bought mustangs lol
Guaranteed the SC sheriff has all that shit too. And more. And they’ll behave just like uvalde cops the next time they really need to rise to the occasion. It’s all a circus.
Lol you’re not wrong about that
New Jersey has entered the chat
Lol. Sounds like he just wanted cool cars.
What a waste of fucking money.
Now that American police forces have slowly opted for bulky SUVs, I think it's for the better. Explorers and Tahoes will be left in the dust if they attempt to chase someone down. At least this way, would-be criminals would be deterred from starting police chases. Where I'm from, successful car chases have been noticeably declining and every time I watch them, guess what they're using? The bulkier Explorers and Tahoes.
Arguably, at least they aren't wasting exorbitant amounts of gas in Tahoes when commuting around the city, since they are using lighter cars.
The only thing I'm curious, is where are they putting people getting arrested?
These are for downed traffic lights and similar, no suspect related calls. A few of the current tahoes don’t have backseats, just equipment lockers
I've been in the back of the police explorers and tahoes...listen it wouldn't be much different if you just threw someone behind the seats in a mustang or in the explorer.
Yeah, generally having a cage is required. They limit front seat travel, and often you only get vinyl seat bottoms and hard plastic backs in the rear. But it’s not a comfortable place. Often the cage makes the front seat uncomfortable as well
The ones I’ve been in are all hard plastic ha. It was uncomfortable
My man.
They're much better traffic vehicles than the explorer, minus the ram factor.
so awesome :)
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I mean, that premise sounds a bit flimsy to me. Cool cars will make people just walk up n chat up the deputy? However he did say they didnt really cost any more that explorers or tahoes, so thats alright.