I think she did it mainly for her boyfriend. But she talks about going to pray, dressing modestly and not eating pork like it’s a new hobby. But I can’t imagine why any one, especially a woman, would want to convert.
Lots of people I work with are Muslim, male and female. I mostly keep my mouth shut.
If youre genuinely curious you could ask her. Obviously do it in a polite way, i.e. "if you dont mind me asking, what made you want to convert to Islam?" Listen to what she says and then say "thank you for your perspective" or something - don't argue or challenge her though.
I have to sit next to her all day. I’ll think about it. Other woman who sits near me is a staunch Catholic who doesn’t eat meat on Fridays
Sounds like a lot of fun! 😂
Seriously, though, I feel for you. I'm from Germany and here we luckily don't have too many religious nuts. I'm sure there are many people who believe in god and all that jazz but religion hardly ever comes up in conversations, so that's a pleasant thing.
It'd be funny, though, to listen in on conversations between your newly-minted, outspoken Muslim colleague and the super Catholic one! (If they speak with each other at all.)
Glad you don't have to deal with so many religious crazies like we do in the US. But, years ago, a German told me that in Germany your employer automatically deducts money to go to your church. Is that no longer true?
Yes and no.
Things haven't changed since you talked to this German person but things aren't quite as you phrase it here.
In Germany, the vast majority of (nominal) Christians belong to either the Catholic Church or the Evangelische Kirche (Protestant Church). I'm using the German term because it is an umbrella term for "a federation of twenty Lutheran, Reformed, and United Protestant regional Churches in Germany" as Wikipedia puts it in the respective article. Most protestants might not even be aware of that because all these individual churches that form the Protestant Church are pretty similar (to my knowledge); fairly moderate and liberal for US standards.
Being a member in one of these two "large churches" (called Landeskirchen in German) you are subject to church tax (Kirchensteuer). The amount of this tax depends on the location, in most Bundesländern (the equivalent of a US state) it is 9% of the income tax (not the income itself), in two others it's 8%.
(A few smaller churches as well as the Jewish community also participates in this system; in the latter case it just isn't called church tax for obvious reasons.)
Because it is linked to the income tax (don't ask me why), and it's the Finanzamt (our IRS) that has this information anyway, that church tax is collected by the state and passed on to the churches. This is a pragmatic arrangement; the state gets paid for this service by the churches.
As it is the employer that directly pays respective income taxes to the government they need to know whether you belong to any of the churches in question and will calculate the church tax on your pay slip. But they don't pay money to the church directly.
I'm aware that this sounds crazy to American "separation of church and state" ears but it's an established system here that isn't really seen as problematic, as far as I know.
All of this applies to church members (which you are through baptism, I suppose, and later confirm with the Confirmation). If you officially disaffiliate with the church, you won't pay the tax any longer, just like you only pay member fees as long as you're a member of a club.
This disaffiliation (Kirchenaustritt) is not at all uncommon. The large churches in Germany have been bleeding members for decades; the sexual abuse scandals have accelerated but not caused it.
I've left the church many years ago, not to save money but because I didn't believe any longer so it didn't make sense for me to stay a member.
Leaving is extremely simple; you need an appointment with your local authority and fill out a form, pay a small administrative fee and that's that.
The authorities are involved because they will inform the tax authorities so that you won't have to get the tax deducted anymore and they let the church know.
So, you don't even have to deal with the church directly; they will be presented with a fait accompli.
There are some ancillary effects coming with this mode of financing that may be worth mentioning.
The strong standing of these two large churches and their stable income stream probably is a reason why we don't have this myriad of local churches that vie for the membership (and money!) of believers. Televangelists and megachurches aren't really a thing over here.
As paradoxical as it sounds, the preponderance of the two large churches seems to have killed much of the religious dynamics you see in some countries, and because they both are fairly milquetoast, having those two large churches funnily enough seems to have prevented radicalism and rather led to religious apathy.
Only recently, I think it was last year, the percentage of Germans that nominally belongs to one of the two large churches has fallen below 50%, which is awesome. What's even better is that those who leave the church almost never do so to join smaller, more radical churches of the evangelical kind, but rather get on with their lives without the church. That's what they've probably done previously anyway, just not nominally; the pews in German churches are pretty much empty except for on Christmas and when there's a wedding.
Anyway, my apologies that this has grown into an essay, that wasn't my intention.
But I hope I could explain a little what's the deal with our employers deducting money for the church, and I hope even more that it was a little bit interesting.
This was very interesting. Thanks for your detailed explanation. I hope to visit Germany again, soon. I was in Berlin and Hannover in 2000 for the Expo. Wishing you a lovely day!
I've been to the Hannover Expo, too! My first (and so far, only) expo. Fun times.
Wishing you a lovely day!
Same to you!
fucking idiot wants to be oppressed lol
I think she wants to feel special
Her search for "special" may not turn out to be what she thinks it will.
The veils come in different colours though and house work can be fun.
She says she won’t wear one. Well, now she does
Sad
Which is extra weird, because there's a LOT of Muslims who believe the appropriate punishment for apostates is death:
(Search on that page for the Penalty for Converting to Another Faith section.)
would be nice if you could share a source if u see it again
Ask her how many wives he plans on keeping.
Or how she will feel when he's fucking virgins in the afterlife and she's just one of many.
In all fairness he needs permition from her to marry another wife.
A better question is to ask how she feels about waving goodbye to her kids when they turn five if he choose to divorce her
No he doesn't. You can actually marry another wife without permission in Islam.
If she and her boyfriend split up, my guess is that she'll leave the faith. This might actually be just a phase; the way she describes it doesn't sound like she's devoted but has only shown interest and converted because it's what her boyfriend follows.
I'm even surprised she's dating him, considering there are implications of him influencing or pressuring her into such a massive life change. I'm sure she doesn't even know what it believes.
Mor likely role playing for the boyfriend. Convert is saying a lot more than it actually is.
I can't for the life of me understand what attracts people to Islam.
I'm a very liberal-minded person and though, as a dude, I've get the long end of the stick I really wouldn't want to be a Muslim.
The entire religious culture goes against my worldview.
So, I'm really the wrong person to explain someone's conversion but in a case like this, where a partner takes on the religion of their SO, it is hard for me not to suspect that the conversion happened for reasons other than having been convinced about the veracity of the religion.
But then, it seems that in this particular case, your colleague might have bought in to some extent as she's talking about all the things she now going to do (and not going to do any longer); if she had just gone through the motions to accommodate her boyfriend (or possibly his family) she probably wouldn't talk about it at work at all.
Strange.
I agree with u/punaltered; if you want to genuinely understand her motivations, just ask her in a nonconfrontational way. From what you describe, she'll probably be more than happy to talk (some more) about the topic!
Weak people. A belief is personal, so when you do it for someone, you are not committed, but pressurised.
these instances really baffle me. i always try to view situations by pretending to be wearing those specific shoes.
– if i were the boyfriend i wouldn't see my partner conversion as an act of selfless love, more so, the person i am with being a pushover which would instantly alert my evolutionary senses.
– if i were the "converted", i would be seriously questioning the perception and value of my own identity, and as much as i try to add any "but what if.." there's no feasible explanation that would lead me to conversion being an acceptable path.
there's just so much sadness all around.
I think you mean not eating pork?
He didn't tell her about the men's wife beating right yet
“I’m stronger and superior to other women because i can follow the rules, while those other lesser women are just too weak to”
People convert to islam because they lack intelligence. Just cut them out of your life.
The d is powerful.
Instead of asking why? I would ask if her boyfriend was hindu, would she have converted to hinduism?
Everyone choses his/her faith... some choose the darkness.
If she turns extremist, break off the friendship. Otherwise, leave people alone.
Honestly, these posts are really weird. Like, what answer did you expect to get?. "Quick OP report her BF to the FBI!!" Or something.
She is an adult, let her make her own decisions without being judged by her "friend".
And I don't know why people like brussels sprout and cucumber.
Other people are going to do their own thing. No need to lose sleep over it.
Why do you care? Just let people live their own lives, even if it seems delusional.
No
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If shes talking about praying and following the general rules of her faith then i dont think its for show because of her boyfriend. Ive seen when people do it for relationships and it mostly never gets past the “technically muslim cuz i signed on the dotted line” phase but hey who am i to judge at the end of the day the sub is atheism not antitheism
For some reason the harsher a religion treats its followers, the more faithful they become. That's why Vatican II Council was basically a death sentence for Catholicism
People do weird things for love.
Hopefully this dude appreciates that sacrifice she's making.
When I was away at college I was shopping in a store. A man was shopping along with whom I presumed was his wife. She was shuffling submissively behind him in a full burka. It left a negative impression on me. I wonder if your coworker is willing to live like that, they were practicing the tradition of a woman not being able to go out in public without a male relative
Well if the world turns into one giant caliphate anyway, she might as well get first pick of owner
as someone who dated a Muslim man who also wanted me to convert, it's either out of fear or she just really loves him. The amount of shit I had to hear about Joe great Islam is and blah blah blah... I dont believe in God, so no thanks. It's a lot of work to do that to yourself
You answered your own question, she probably did it for him.