I leased a car from Ford and they took my Nissan trade-in which a Nissan dealership did them the favor of processing. The value of my trade in was $21,400 (CarMax) and in the lease they gave me $20,000 for it and said the payoff was $19,332. Lienholder ended up receiving $18,203 for the car meaning that the Nissan dealership kept the $1,129 difference. The language in the contract states "If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount." They say that the difference is a fee that the dealership charged them. The agreement specifically states that the difference is my money so they paid a fee they were charged with my money without my knowledge or consent. Dealership says they sent the full $19,332 so I am owed nothing. I got a copy of all the documents today and there is a page I hadn't ever seen that is from the lienholder stating the gross payoff on the car was $18,203. The numbers guy didn't like being told that the payoff on the agreement should have been $18,203 and that fee should have been removed from the amount the had offered me for the trade-in. Am I wrong here?
This. Dealer pays what they say they'll pay. Bank handles it.
In my experience(3 purchases like this), I've received the overage check about 30 days after.
Unless you’re dealing with Chrysler Capital, those scummy SOBs allow daily interest to accrue and don’t apply the payoff check to the loan until the payoff amount matches the check amout
I can tell you some pretty horrible things about my leasing experience with Chrysler capital. I will never deal with them again.
I was in a similar situation where the payoff took longer than expected and I ended up making 3 additional payments on the car. The dealer got back to me and said the bank would take care of it, and then I received a check from the dealer for those payments. Is that still “the bank”?
I got my money back but I was always confused how it seemed (to me) like the dealer was trying to pass the buck to the bank, and then ended up paying me themselves.
The dealer got back to me and said the bank would take care of it, and then I received a check from the dealer for those payments. Is that still “the bank”?
No, something got fucked up somewhere in the process. The dealership then fixed the problem without you needing to ask.
The bank probably refunded the difference to the dealership instead of the customer. I worked in an RV dealership, and it was unfortunately common.
Ask for a copy of the payoff check they sent the bank. If they refuse, which they shouldn't, you can likely get a copy from your old lender.
If the check is less than the payoff on the contract, they clearly owe you the difference.
They wrote a check for $19,322 to a Nissan dealership(middleman) because they weren't allowed to directly purchase the car from the bank. Our agreement only involves Payoff - Lienholder received=my money so they paid them a fee from my money. I believe this isn't legal.
Most dealerships cannot buy out other leases so they usually have a partnership with a partnering dealer that will charge them anywhere from $500-$1000 to facilitate your lease buyout. I am a sales manager for a Chevy dealership, all of our partnering dealerships charge us money to ground your vehicle, pay it off and send us the title
I guess the better question is isn't the payoff amount on the payoff agreement supposed to be the amount owed to the lienholder as the document states it is? And keep your fee separate as I have no idea this is going on?
They usually lump whatever fee the other dealership charges to them into the payoff as there’s no way to itemize it because it cannot be listed as an accessory or a backend product (Service Contract, Tire/Wheel, GAP). But they should have explained that to you. it’s also likely that there was an overpayment and you will receive the difference. I would contact the general manager of the dealership
That should be handle by ACVing the car correctly factoring your cost for the dealership to purchase it from you. Not by charging the customer more without saying anything.
Yeah your car’s worth $18,300 but I’m not a Nissan dealer. If you wanna trade it in w me I’ll give you $17,300 because it’s gonna cost me $1,000 to have X store buy out the lease and send me a title.
The dealership I used to work for would just adjust acv accordingly, and explain it to customer. We think it's worth "X" but because it's a lease, it costs us money to process this with a Nissan dealer we work with, so we're showing you "Y". Nice thing was that becuase it's a Subaru store our leases didn't have that limitation, so it's something I continue to highlight about why leasing a Subaru doesn't suck balls.
The overpayment was kept by the Nissan dealership. If the actual payoff amount had been 20K how much would I owe?
That wasn’t an overpayment, that was the cost you had to pay to cash in on the equity of your car. It was give it back to Nissan, trade it in for another Nissan, or pay a middle man to buy the car. Yes you have to pay it. It’s not on the dealership. It’s completely legal. You came out ahead. Get over it
Just ignore the text of the actual contract. Let me be clear, the payoff amount listed on this document is supposed to be the payoff amount required to satisfy the lien with a lien holder. Not the payoff amount required to do something that you aren't legally allowed to do where you have to go through a third party as in payoff someone. Why would I think that this payoff amount will go to anyone except for the lien holder when that is all the document says.
It is perfectly legal to charge a processing fee in most states.
The question you should be asking is why CarMax couldn't pay the bank directly.
Nothing illegal happened, unless you can prove they got a kickback from the Nissan dealer for processing it thru them.
As far as third party processing? Every time you swipe your debit card at a location, that's exactly what you're doing, and a fee is charged to the location, or sometimes you have to pay (xx amount for debit transactions deal). That's also legal.
Someone didn't explain to you the process, and you're expecting money that wasn't going your way.
The actual agreement that was signed said that the entire payoff amount would be sent to the lien holder that did not happen. It then says if there is a difference between the payoff amount and the amount required to pay off the lien holder that money is mine. We are talking about a contract, not what they intended to do or what they thought was happening. It's what I thought was happening based on the contract that they gave gave me and what any reasonable person would expect. When no third party is mentioned, I don't understand why anyone here thinks that I should expect for the third party to take money from me without me knowing about it
And this fee is taken from the equity in a customer's car or does the dealership handle it separately and get it from me somewhere else in the deal.
I’m surprised you made it through the finance office with your iq
Insulting a person in a random thread.
You’re insulting our intelligence by asking the same question 400 different times because you don’t like the answer. If you already knew that it was illegal why become a knight of the keyboard table instead of filing in small claims court?
I'm responding to people. I'm not asking the same question. Nobody has answered my question other than telling me that I'm wrong because that's the way it is. I'm speaking with an attorney tomorrow. My entire situation is more of a legal problem, as the problem lies in the contract itself and its language, the questions I am asking is to understand if there's something that I am missing that would allow someone to do this regardless of my contract. I'm not trying to get the answer I want to hear I want information
“Other interest “. That’s the dealer who can buy the car. I hope that consultation is free because you sure hate to pay your bills
Other interest pertains to the lien holders interest. Why would it be anybody else's interest other than the lien holder?
Let me ask you this. If the payoff amount ended up being $20,000, would I have owed $20,000- 19332, because if that's the case, that means that that entire 19332 is money that is going towards the payment of the vehicle and nothing is going as a fee anywhere else. If it isn't 19332, what magic number would be used as the basis for what I would owe? This is why that payoff number matters as the agreement clearly states that if the amount owed to the lien holder is more than 19332, I owe them that.
This has been answered. You’re willfully ignorant. The fee that the Nissan dealer charged is “other interest in the car. You have to pay whatever number it takes for the ford dealer to take possession of the car. Why should they pay a fee that it takes to buy YOUR car? Where else should the money come from other than you?
Spoiler alert. I didn't know there was a fee. The reason I mentioned the value that CarMax would pay me of 21.4 is because that's what I thought they were going to be getting for the car. So when they gave me $20 for it they're making $1,400 and maybe that's the money they were using to pay off the dealer. I have no idea. I don't know because it isn't in the contract. Only the lien holder could have charged for other interest in the car. They are the only person that matters here. Based on this there would never be extra money. Whatever extra money there would ever be, they would just keep it even if they made a mistake. Do you not understand that? I'm done here. I'll let you know what happens
They did you a favor and you're complaining. You recognize yourself that the dealer couldn't buy the car directly themselves, so they found an alternative to make the transaction work. The Nissan dealership deserves to be paid for playing middleman here. If you wanted to maximize the equity in the trade to your benefit, you could have bought a new Nissan, which you chose not to do.
A favor? They led me to believe my car's equity was about 2K and they were giving me 600 of it. In reality it was 3200 and they were giving me 600. I would have gotten a Nissan instead. The payoff amount should have been the actual payoff amount and then they should have taken that fee from the amount being given for the car. We signed an agreement that says any extra money is mine.
Hey bud, you got your answer several times over from several people who told you how this happens. You may get a check, you may not. There can be fees associated which a GSM took the time to explain. I get that you're frustrated but there is still a chance you're getting a check, you did not get bent over a barrel, the dealership could have done a better job explaining this.
But then again, they might have tried to explain it and it went over your head just as you're ignoring everyone else explaining this process to you. No one here is from thar dealership where this occurred, no one is trying to argue with you over what occurred or should be held accountable just for being in the same industry. You got 2 good/likely answers from folks, take them and find the door if you aren't going to be nice about it
Ain't this the truth
But there's no "extra" money... They quoted you $19332. That was the cost to dispose of the vehicle through Carmax. They didn't lie to you. They didn't keep anything that wasn't theirs. Your issue really lies with Nissan Motor Credit, and not Carmax. If Nissan would allow 3rd-party buyouts, then this would not be a problem. Their system allowed their dealer to penalize you for not buying another Nissan. The last thing you would want to do is reward that behavior with another purchase.
"If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount."
Payoff amount = $19332
Lienholder received = $18,203
Unfortunately I can't tell you what happens when a third party is involved because it's not in the agreement. The agreement is between Ford dealership and me. The lienholder is only a part of it by name. The only numbers referred to in the agreement here are the two I listed.
I’m going to blow your mind here, but the lessor can change the buyout depending on who’s buying it. So yes you may have owed one amount, but they can make a market adjustment for anyone else to purchase the car. For example if you tried to sell your car to Carmax the amount owed to Nissan would be higher than if you sold it back to Nissan or purchased it yourself.
At this point I've heard what everyone has to say, but I will say it again. I signed an agreement. The agreement says that the entirety of the payoff amount that they listed on this agreement would go to the lien holder. That money is not allowed to go to anyone else. There is no third party mentioned in this entire document. There are no extra fees that are allowed unless those fees are being collected by the lien holder. The problem here is with the actual agreement. It is inappropriate for the actual transaction that happened. They need a different agreement for this type of situation and that is not my problem
Read the back of the lease contract you signed with Nissan
What you believe and feel and what actually is happening is two different things.
Why should they cover any fees for helping you by being the middle man. They could have told you to take the car to Nissan yourself and you’d not get the equity that you did get.
Are you sure part of that money wasn’t the disposition fee? Did you have any remaining payments? The payoff could have been 18203 and the remaining was your final payments and disposition fee.
You can't pay fees being charged to you with my money. That dealership wasn't charging me and I have no agreement with them. And I quote "If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount." The total final payment including remaining lease payments was $18,203. The payoff amount on our agreement should have been$18,203 and then instead of giving me 20k for the car given me $18,871 for the car. Then it's transparent and I do not lease the Ford. I get an extra $2,500 in equity getting a Nissan.
🤣 at the end of the day no matter what they paid Nissan you agreed to the payment, you are upset because part of your equity went to a Nissan dealership so you won’t get charged a dispo fee or reconditioning fees. Where do you expect the fee for paying off your Nissan is suppose to go lol?
I agreed for $19,332 to be sent to the Lienholder. Everything else happened behind closed doors and I never even knew it happened.
Ford called the Nissan dealership and asked for a payout on your lease.
Nissan called Nissan Finance and asked for a payout on your lease.
Nissan Finance told the Nissan dealership a number.
The Nissan Dealer added their fees and told the Ford Dealer the new higher number.
The Ford dealer said that your buyout is the Nissan dealer's number, and then gave you additional equity based on that number.
The Ford dealer paid the Nissan Dealership. The Nissan Dealer kept their share, and gave the rest to Nissan Finance.
Everyone got paid what they were supposed to get paid.
There's no more money for you.
Next time, buy out your lease yourself, and make sure you get the equity you want when you go to trade it in.
Ford absolutely did not tell me that the payoff amount was going to a dealer. They signed an agreement that did not mention any extra fees or money was going to anyone other than the lienholder. There is no mention of a third party. Next time the dealership should read the contracts they are agreeing to and maybe have a different type of payoff agreement when a third party is involved. They attempted to effectively lie to me about the equity in my car whether they knew it or not.
How do you think that Ford would buyout a Nissan lease? And why does how it transpired matter to you? Ford certainly didn't lie. Ford ACTUALLY Paid the amount that the Nissan Dealer asked for. They provided their equity based on the number that was provided to them. And you obviously were ok with the numbers, otherwise you wouldn't have done the deal.
The Ford dealer isn't to blame here. The Nissan dealer isn't to blame here.
As I said: Everyone got paid what they were supposed to get paid.
My deal was based on the equity in my vehicle being the CarMax $21,400 - $19,332. If the number is actually $21,400 - $18,203 I would have gone to Nissan and gotten a Nissan. A fee was was paid with equity from my vehicle without me knowing.
You're being pretty thick headed here, despite what everyone is telling you. I don't know why you keep mentioning Carmax. What do they have to do with anything?
It's really simple:
What number did the NISSAN DEALER tell FORD they have to pay?
How much did FORD pay to the NISSAN DEALER?
Those are the only 2 relevant questions.
The ACTUAL buyout from Nissan is not in play here. FORD's ONLY option is to buy the car from the NISSAN DEALER. The NISSAN DEALER controls the BUYOUT in this situation.
If the lienholder was actually owed 20K for the car, how much would I owe?
Then they should have a different pay off agreement drawn up for these situations. The CarMax number is what I'm basing my vehicles equity off of.
You’re so right! Those assholes. Bring them to small claims court and get off Reddit you prick
Like Rex said, next time buy it out, pay your sales tax and do it yourself.
You seem to have all the answers.
😂
The guy is too smart for himself
Tbh everyone here who is the car business knows there isn’t equity in Nissans the fact that they were able to get you any equity and didn’t have to pay a dispo you def won on this end I wouldn’t complaint. Next time just pay your rat or just do a lease return.
Did you by chance trade in a lease? This would explain a lot and open up a lot of possibilities for the payoff reason
Also, if it was a loan and you don't kind of fee or penalty or forced insurance, that would explain plenty.
Ask for a copy of the check sent by the dealer. It's it's the 18k, the dealer owes you money. If it's 19k the back owes you money
If it's a lease trade in and the dealer had to use another dealer to payoff your lease, that other dealer may have charged your dealer a fee to do so.
They did pay a fee by adding it to my payoff amount. I did not know this until last week. I've been waiting for a check for 2 months. The agreement states any difference between the two numbers is mine. Nowhere does it say anyone other than the lienholder is allowed access to those funds for any reason. This completely misleads me in the amount of equity I had in my car and I would have just gotten a Nissan.
OP, if you think this unexpected, wait till you try getting out of your Ford lease early. Ford allows your originating dealer to dictate the payoff of your Ford lease. I find more often than not, the Ford store will dictate your payoff to be retail market value and they’ll then call the leasee knowing he’s trying to get out early and work a lease retention attempt with him or her. You also get locked into your lease if you’re within 90 days of maturity.
In comparison the Nissan $475 lease buy out fee and you inter-dealer transaction cost isn’t so bad.
From my experience, Honda, BMW, MB, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia and Chrysler Capital are reasonable for third party lease buy outs. Good luck to you.
Ford dealerships have absolutely zero control over the lease payoff amount regardless of if they are the original sellers. Not sure how you’ve came to believe that.
Oooo you thought they over paid you thought you got one over the dealership 🤣 so you knew ford was sending 19k you could’ve have told ford why are you paying 19.xxx for the car instead of 18,xxx. I’m sure they would have explained to you that the Nissan dealership got a cut of the pie
I thought the dealership was getting charged more than me by the lien holder for reasons I didn't understand. The only entity in this transaction that can do that is the lien holder, not a third party. I understand that you don't understand how these contracts work, but this is literally what they say. You can't just do whatever you think you want to do or what you think. The contract literally says that I'm owed the difference between the payoff amount and the amount required to pay off the lien holder. I don't understand what's so hard to understand. If you could explain it to me in some way where you're looking at the actual contract that would be great. Nowhere in my agreement is a third party allowed to take any money.
There’s a reason why no one on legal advice touched your post.
Yeah, I don't know what that means
It means you're an idiot!
Thanks for the explanation. It's about as good as the rest.
I mean you end your post with "am I wrong? " and then proceed to get told yes you're wrong by multiple people. don't accept that answer, argue, and at the end of the day are still wrong.
if you're not convinced, contact a lawyer instead of car sales people on reddit
Not one person said why they had the legal right to lump a fee that was not disclosed to me into the payoff amount of a car when the definition of the payoff amount of a car is the amount of money required to have the car released from the lien holder. So yeah stupid me. And by the way I did and at least for where I live they're all wrong.
Wait, did you trade in a lease to a different franchise? (Like a Toyota to Ford store).
Yes
Then the other dealership most likely charged your dealership a fee to pay it off. Not only that, but many lease companies don't include the ~$300 or whatever buy out fee as part of the "payoff." You're not getting that money back, it's not yours. Move on
The important question is: How much time has passed since they paid the vehicle off? Typically, dealerships will wiat until they've got the title before they send you the difference, just in case. I've never seen a dealership KEEP the difference, there's no way to even account for it in accounting. Like, it's not theirs. So how long has it been?
Also, it may very well be that the dealership overpaid, and now you have to wait for the old lender to send you the money. You can ask the dealer for a photocopy of the check, that's the easiest wait to figure out what's going on. Unfortunately, many lenders have a problem with communicating between departments, and the person you spoke to may only be able to see how much money went through and NOT how much was actually sent.
My lease was February 26th. They paid the car off March 12th. The dealership did not keep it. They gave it to a third party. Our agreement does not allow them to give that money to a third party. If there is more money than the amount required by the lien holder to satisfy the lien, that money is mine. That is what I based my entire lease on. If that wasn't how it was going to work I would not have leased the car.
Ask for a copy of the check they sent to pay it off.
Side note, you have zero choice as to whether they keep the trade or not, that has nothing to do with you. Unless you're saying something else and I'm misunderstanding.
As far as I knew they were going to send 19332 to the lien holder. What actually happened was they sent 19332 to a middleman and then the middleman sent 18203 to the lien holder. I did not know this was happening. It was not disclosed to me. It is not written in the payoff agreement and had it been I would not have agreed to this. I would have forced him to give me more money for the car or walked away.
It doesn't matter, you agreed to all the numbers! You should have looked up the payoff on your own before hand and brought it up at signing. They aren't required to sit there and make sure every single customer understands every single line of every document, do you realize how insane that would be? They aren't lawyers or any other sort of law experts, that's not their job. Just because you "didn't realize" what was happening certainly doesn't mean that, 2 months later, you can suddenly go "wait a minute!" They had to pay that fee in order to pay off the vehicle. If they couldn't charge that fee, they wouldn't have taken it on trade, meaning you wouldn't have had a deal. Not sure what else I could say, other than you not paying attention and not understanding the situation after the fact doesn't mean the dealership screwed you. Trust me, there are plenty if ways they can and will try to get one over on you but this isn't it.
I did bring it up. They said the number was higher. I didn't realize the number was higher because some middleman was taking it. That's the part that maybe is misunderstood. This was not disclosed to me. This number makes my cars equity seem like it's lower than it actually is which affects whether or not I do this deal. Also, I didn't wait 2 months. I called 2 months ago and they told me it would take a month or two for me to receive the overage check in the mail.
Dealerships do NOT work for you, they are not fiduciaries. They don't have to disclose every aspect of their business, upfront. The only things they HAVE to disclose are things like the interest rate, the amount financed, the payment, the total of interest, and total of payments, with equity and down payment. Stuff like that. If you KNEW the payoff was too high and just let it go, that's on you. That was your moment to say "Well why is it higher?" But you didn't.
My payoff and their payoff can be different. I told them it was higher and he said I just called them that's what it is. Why would I think them was a Nissan dealership and not the lienholder?
I'm done, you're helpless.
You’re completely right, and the dealership should refund you the amount you are entitled to.
Feel better? I told you what you want to hear. Does that actually change your situation?
Was the Nissan a lease? As a dealer, I charge a $599 admin fee for processing a lease buyout, especially for another dealer. Why should I work for free? I've seen other dealers charge up to $999. The difference between what Nissan Finance received, and what that specific Nissan dealership received, is probably some sort of admin or processing fee, and at the end of the day is between the Nissan dealer and the Ford dealer. The Ford dealer gave you a number that was agreeable to you. I don't know why you mentioned Carmax. What do they have to do with this?
I realize the CarMax number is irrelevant now that you mention it. Don't I have to know that you are being paid this fee if my equity is being used to pay for it?
Did you contact the Nissan dealer to do the transaction? Or did the Ford dealer call to make the arrangements? This was your deal to negotiate. If you let them do it, you're at their mercy.
Your "equity" came from the Ford Dealer. The Nissan dealer really has nothing to do with it.
I completely understand I have nothing to do with the Nissan dealer. The Ford dealer made all the arrangements. To clear it up this is where I'm coming from:
"If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount."
Payoff amount = $19332
Lienholder received = $18,203
I don't see how a third party can take fees out of this number.
"Or other interests"
The lienholder's interests, not Ford.
Thats not what it states
It states other interests in the trade in vehicle
No, the position of the word "or" separates the idea of the lienholder from another party.
- Before I sold cars, I studied law
The word "or" is a very important word to pay attention to, because it includes Nissan without having to specifically express the word Nissan.
If the fee is a fee that Ford had to pay in order to do the lease buyout then due to the language of the contract this would fall under the definition of "required"
"If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount."
"other interest" = fees required to complete the lease buyout.
If Nissan did the processing and charged Ford a fee, then you are not entitled to this money because Nissan charged them a fee to process the buy-out. Nissan is this other interest.
Nissan is not obligated to follow the contract between you and Ford. Ford knows this as well and shows consideration for this in the wording of the contract.
Was the nissan you traded in owned or leased?
What does your new lease contract say regarding the trade allowance/payoff/net trade in values?
Nissan was leased. Lienholder received $18,203. Payoff on agreement was $19,332. Agreement says any extra money is mine.
Forget the Ford dealer. Forget the Nissan Dealer. Was the lienholder itself (Nissan Finance) paid more than $18203? If they weren't, they have no reason to send you any money.
My signed agreement with the Ford dealership states "If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount." Lienholder was paid $18,203. Ford dealer owes me the difference as per the agreement.
No they don't. And good luck trying to get it. Ford is not capable of buying the leased car directly from Nissan Finance. They HAVE to go through a Nissan Dealer. The Nissan dealer charged them whatever the difference was. The payout was from the Nissan dealer. That's what Ford used to calculate the numbers, and that's what Ford paid.
You can try to argue this all you want, but you will NOT get any money back from anyone.
As I mentioned already, EVERYONE got paid the amounts they were expecting. Even you. There's no additional money coming your way, no matter how you try to interpret the wording.
Unfortunately for them our agreement was between them and me and they weren't authorized to give any money from the $19,332 to anyone but the lienholder. It is explicitly in the agreement as such.
The Ford dealer didn't actually pay ANY money to the lienholder. The Nissan dealer paid the Lienholder. So I'm not sure how your explicit agreement deals with that. Nissan Finance won't accept money from a Ford Dealer. Is it sinking in yet?
"If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount." Do you understand how contracts work?
Obviously more than you do, based on your responses and thick headedness.
You seem to ignore everything I say in each post, completely missing what's going on here, and just keep repeating yourself.
Answer this: How much did the FORD DEALER pay directly to NISSAN FINANCE (Lienholder)?
I love how this question goes unanswered from OP.
Nothing they paid $0
For fucks sake man, if you don’t like the answers you’re getting, go ask a lawyer. Everyone here is saying pretty much the same thing, you being a dick and trying to argue your point isn’t going to change anyone’s mind, and more importantly, a Reddit thread isn’t going to do mean jack shit at a dealership.
If you truly believe you were wronged and you’re owed 800 bucks or whatever, then go ask a lawyer about it.
I am trying to figure out if I was wrong somewhere in my understanding. It turns out the entire Car Industry is equally corrupt and doesn't believe contracts have any validity as long as they think what they are doing is ok. But yes I will let you know the results. I'm also gonna be giving my neighbor my next par payment to pay for me and if all of it doesn't make it to Ford I'm off the hook because I gave my neighbor the money. This is how everyone here thinks this shit works.
"any other interest"
Why are you willfully ignoring that part?
What probably happened is NMAC usually charges a $475 lease buy out fee to the Nissan dealer and then the dealership charged a processing fee to the Ford dealer.
No the agreement says any extra money not owed to the lien holder or other interest in the trade in is yours. You already posted that elsewhere. You literally agreed to the total and to the Ford dealer paying any fees owed on the trade in. You are not owed any other money.
Didn't agree to any fees. I didn't even know they existed. If somehow any other interest applies to a third party that has no rights to this vehicle then yes you are correct
You agreed to it when you signed off on that clause and the total.
That's exactly right, you finally got it. Other interest does in fact apply to a third-party. Bingo!
So like others have said. The ford dealer paid 19332 to sastify the remaining lease balance. You're Owed zero dollars.
What is written on your new ford lease agreement? Post a picture of it with any pii redacted
So, Ford leases are like this too in that ONLY a Ford dealership can purchase it. So, if this were reversed and you went to a Nissan dealer to trade your Ford, they’d call us, we’d pull the payoff, and then mark it up because we’re expending resources to process your trade.
So, the Ford dealer didn’t mark up your payoff, the Nissan dealer did. Get a copy of the check sent over to the Nissan dealership and, as long as it matches the number they gave you, everything is in order
Nobody here seems to care about what the actual agreement says only what was supposed to be inferred. I did not know that a third party was involved in this transaction. They are not in the agreement that I signed. I have nothing to do with them. I have an agreement with Ford and if the amount that the lien holder received is less than the amount that they put as the payoff, I am entitled to that difference. If this is a poorly worded agreement that is not my problem. A random person on the street reading my agreement would have to know that you guys are giving money to a third party. Good luck with that
Ok, so here’s the thing, once the Nissan dealer bought your car to sell to the Ford dealer, they became the lien holder. That’s it. End of story. If you don’t believe us, go talk to a lawyer so her can laugh you out of his office.
You’re really coming off like less of a “hey guys, did I get screwed or is this legit?” and more like a “hey guys! They fucked up and I got ‘em!” and you don’t want to hear anything to the contrary. Let it go
When I signed that agreement the lien holder was Nissan Infiniti LT specifically named in the agreement. That's it. End of story. In fact, Nissan dealership did not buy the car from the lien holder until 3 weeks later. So there is no way that I signed an agreement that allows them to do something with a different lien holder than the one named in the agreement. You are 100% correct. That is exactly the situation here and it's because of the language in the contract with respect to the end of your statement. Imagine the dealership using a very, very poorly worded document as an agreement form that isn't even valid for the agreements that you're doing because you can't even pay those lien holders directly, which means that you should have a different form for when that happens and yet everyone is on the side of the dealership here. I guess it makes sense. Look where I'm asking questions.
I think we’re done here. You’ve had professionals from across the country all tell you the same thing and you, the guy who doesn’t know how this works, is only looking for confirmation, not truth.
It’s time you shut the fuck up and go pay a lawyer. You’re certain you’re correct, so put your money where your mouth is and make sure to update this post with the case number so we can see the judge’s ruling
Why so angry? I'm just asking questions. Nobody here has legally told me why this is okay but that's okay. And in fact, I am going to speak to an attorney tomorrow. Maybe figure out why you're raging in a random thread. Seek help
I’m not angry. I just think you’re an arrogant jack ass, and no you’re not. You asked A question, then argued with everyone who answered because it didn’t fit your narrative. Please update soon
Everyone is telling me that the extra money that was kept by the dealership was kept as a fee. I'm saying that my agreement doesn't allow for that and then ask where in my agreement they are allowed to do that and nobody answers. If the lien holder actually was owed 20K would the extra amount I owe them be based off of 19332 or some other made-up number that I wouldn't even know at the time. This is where everything falls apart because if it's 19332 then that number belongs to the full equity payment of my vehicle. The response by others when I asked this was that would never happen. Awesome. But I am speaking to an attorney tomorrow and I will see what he says.
In the CAR BUSINESS world, they did everything correctly. In LEGAL by the "book" world they should have split the pay off and fee they paid to Nissan as 2 separate line items. They bunched them together and thats what you are arguing here.
If you take them to small claims court, they will show an invoice from Nissan dealer for $19,332 and you will need to argue that they you should not be paying the $1k fee because it was not a separate line item.
I have been recently burned for $100 by not outlining something as a separate line item and customer came back bitching about it. It wasn't worth my time so I just gave them $100 and will never do it again same way.
BUUUUT in all honesty, you are lucky that Ford dealer was able to take your Nissan trade in, most would not even take it because they cannot buy them out. And neither can CarMax and Carvana. They'll give you a value, but will stop transaction as soon as you say its a lease.
I agree with everything you said. When I read payoff amount on a document all I am thinking is that's the payoff for the lienholder. I'm not arguing that I shouldn't pay it because it's a different line item. I didn't know it was happening. Nowhere on the agreement does it say anything. I didn't need a car it was a spontaneous decision on the Mach-E price drop. I wasn't looking to get out of my lease early so much as capitalize on the shitty sales of the Mach-E. So I don't actually know what Nissan would have given me but if CarMax is quoting me a number I would think Nissan could get the same one. Everyone here thinks I got screwed or something...my total monthly payment is $540 including all out the door costs and taxes on a 54K MSRP car that had been 62k two weeks prior. My problem here is with the agreement and what it said vs what actually happened. And there is also the situation of the amount due being 20k, what happens then? Because it isn't separated why would I owe more than the difference between 20k and 19332. It's a badly structured agreement.
I don’t think it’s a badly structured agreement, it’s just the fact that you can not understand and read a contract.
If I can't understand the contract, it's a bad contract. Thanks for proving my point. You're too stupid to understand that.
Yes, next time when you go get a car or anything that involves a contract, tell them to draw for you as well maybe it will be easier for you to understand.
Just ask for a copy of the check paid. Easy peezy lemon squeezy
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Thanks for posting, /u/Ok_Reference_2390! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of anything.
I leased a car from Ford and they took my Nissan trade-in which a Nissan dealership did them the favor of processing. The value of my trade in was $21,400 (CarMax) and in the lease they gave me $20,000 for it and said the payoff was $19,332. Lienholder ended up receiving $18,203 for the car meaning that the Nissan dealership kept the $1,129 difference. The language in the contract states "If the payoff amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the trade-in vehicle the Dealer will pay you the excess amount." They say that the difference is a fee that the dealership charged them. The agreement specifically states that the difference is my money so they paid a fee they were charged with my money without my knowledge or consent. Dealership says they sent the full $19,332 so I am owed nothing. I got a copy of all the documents today and there is a page I hadn't ever seen that is from the lienholder stating the gross payoff on the car was $18,203. The numbers guy didn't like being told that the payoff on the agreement should have been $18,203 and that fee should have been removed from the amount the had offered me for the trade-in. Am I wrong here?
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Spoke with the attorney. Starting with the first paragraph, they are in breach of contract for including a third party while stating they're sending this directly to the lien holder. This by itself does not mean that I don't owe any fees. The part with respect to the lien holder to satisfy its lien or other interest. The interest is that belonging to the lien holder such as a purchase option fee that isn't included in the payoff amount. The Nissan dealer was not charged a fee for this but had I purchased the car it would have cost me $300. The final relevant part is where it says clear of all liens and interests of others. Others refers to unknowns, things that could not be known at the time that this is being signed, such as a lien or fee they were not aware of. So do I owe this money?
Dealerships are bound by disclosure laws and must disclose any fees to me in writing with the exact amount , what it's for, and who it's going to. This is something I can assure you did not happen. As for what I should do, he said I should reach out to the compliance department of the city and try and have them do something first and if that ends up being nothing which is usually 50/50 then proceed with legal action. Another thing I found out is that the blank documents they gave me to sign that they filled out later was also probably not the best of ideas on their part. Looks like the majority of the people commenting here seem to think it was okay for them to take the fee without disclosing it to me in writing and you start to realize how corrupt the entire industry actually is.
The customer(s) named above ('you") have transferred the Trade-In Vehicle described above to the Dealer amed above in trade for another vehicle purchase or lease. Dealer agrees to pay the Pay-Off Amount to lienholder described in the Lienholder Information to pay the balance owed to the Lienholder with respect to the trade-In Vehicle. In connection with your transfer of the Trade-In Vehicle to the Dealer, you represent to the Dealer that: The Lienholder is authorized to deliver the certificate of title (Title" ) for the Trade-In Vehicle to the Dealer, properly endorsed and free and clear of all security interests, liens and/or encumbrances (collectively Liens"). If there is any insurance on the Vehicle, Lienholder is authorized to cancel it. You are the sole legal and record owner(s) of the Trade-In Vehicle. The Lienholder is the only party with a lien or other interest in the Trade-In Vehicle. Upon payìng off the Lienholder and transferring the Trade-In Vehicle to the Dealer, Dealer will take ownership of the Trade-In Vehicle free and clear of all liens and interests of Lienholder or any other person. You understand and agree that you are solely responsible for paying any amounts due to the Lienholder to release the Lienholder's interest in the Trade-In Vehicle. You understand that the Pay-Off Amount is an estimate, and it is possible that the Lienholder may be owed additional amounts. If the Pay-Off Amount is not sufficient to pay the Lienholder in full for the release of its lien, you agree to pay any amount still due Lienholder ("Payoff Deficiency"). If Dealer elects to pay the Payoff Deficiency, you agree to reimburse Dealer in the amount of the Payoff Deficiency and for other amounts Dealer may pay to obtain ownership to the Trade-In Vehicle free and clear of all liens and interests. If the Pay-Off Amount exceeds the amount required by the Lienholder to satisfy its lien or other interest in the Trade-In Vehicie the Dealer will pay you the excess amount. In addition to the above, you agree that if you may have received a trade-in credit in the purchase or lease of another vehicle ("Trade-In Credit") and the Dealer does not obtain ownership of the Trade-n Vehicle free and clear of ali liens and interests of others, then you will pay Dealer the Trade-In Credit. You also agree to pay to Dealer any and all costs and expenses Dealer may expend, including, but not limited 10, attorney's fees and court costs, to collect any amounts due under this Vehicle Payoff Agreement.
Just curious if you actually just wasted time typing all of that, or if you copied and pasted it from somewhere. If copied, it's rife with spelling errors/typos.
You understand that the Pay-Off Amount is an estimate, and it is possible that the Lienholder may be owed additional amounts.
It seems like a dealer purchase fee by a franchise dealer is an "additional amount" in order to satisfy the lien payment. Good thing they knew about this fee in advance and worked it into the deal so that there were no surprises.
I've seen fog that isn't this thick.
The app grabbed the text. The Lienholder was not the one owed additional amounts. Keep trying to alter the contract to fit what you wish it had said. Have a good one. I'll let you know what happens with the attorney.
I can save you $1000 in Lawyer fees by telling you you're not getting the $800 you think you're owed.
If I win you send me a paid off EV9.
My EV9 has a 3rd party admin fee attached to it.
Perfect! Thanks for disclosing that. It makes everything so much more transparent
If the bank received the over payment, the bank will refund the difference to you.