www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-suncor-wants-alberta-to-introduce-tariffs-for-imported-electricity/
Suncor wants Alberta to introduce tariffs for imported electricity, says rules led to grid issues
Alberta Politics'Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government’
-Benito Mussolini
There is actually a term for it, Corporatocracy
This may be the only thing I agree with Mussolini on.
Well, maybe his necktie, but that wasn't really his choice.
Agreed
He is correct.
Suncor is our masters.
But no rainbow 🌈 sidewalks so it’s fine.
What the hell have we been paying all these distribution fees for if not to improve power generation and distribution in the province?
Obviously to make energy companies richer. It doesn’t cost $80 to deliver no heat in july in central alberta.
To pay for existing distribution assets and their maintenance…
To build a massive transmission lines to fort mac for $1.6-1.8b
Lots of other stuff.
Aaaaaaannd now it’s burned down. Because of drought. Because of climate change. Because of fossil fuel lobbyists.
Suncor literally in the premiers office dictating policy. Sincerely fucked up.
Good old crooked danielle! Alberta voted this corporate puppet into power. We are reeping what we sow! Good for us! Owning the libs at any cost!
Did you or anyone else in this thread actually read the article? This isn't Suncor getting special treatment, they are filing a complaint with the Alberta Utilities Commission. Any other company could do the same if they wanted. In fact the article talks about how their complaints have been ignored for years.
Isn’t the complaint, in its essence, about reducing competition? The imported power was largely renewable hydro from publicly owned utilities in BC and Manitoba.
The current system was most definitely designed by Oil and Gas interests. The sector was largely deregulated and AB doesn’t pay for or force utility providers to hold reserves. So a complaint to charge tariffs on utility imports is truly just greed.
The content of the complaint is irrelevant to my comment. People in this thread are acting like Suncor is dictating policy and that the UCP is doing whatever they are asking for when this is not the case at all.
Except they are
Suncor is part of the pathways alliance that got the government to accept its environmental impact studies and sold carbon capture to the UCP. The UCP is and has always done what O&G dictate. Please show me where they went against O&G?
Paywall
Seated right beside the TBA cult
If only I didn't have to pay to read this...
You're welcome
I read they have to meet the utilities act by having extra on hand but other companies out of Alberta aren’t under the same rules. Energy storage is expensive and renewables are going to figure that out right away. It’s easy to have a pile of fuel sitting and waiting. It’s another to have charged batteries.
I hope this won’t effect residential solar
BC and Manitoba are all surplus power. There is no legal requirements to sell them any power as far as I know. I guess they should have not stopped the renewable future.
Thank you
So…..the costs to the consumer will go higher yeh great plan ….
They want more freedom to jack up prices...my guess is the UCP will say yes!
That’s not what the article says at all. You’d think as the poster you’d have an idea.
They want a fair deal wherein they can not provide capacity in the same manner as external providers. This would enable them to induce scarcity (the reason for the rule) this would then let them jack up prices (the part the linked pr piece neglects to mention)
Unless I'm crazy they are asking exactly the opposite in the article. They want the other companies to be under the same obligation they are.
Providers who currently sell excess will be told they must now maintain capacity for us and pay tariff. One of two things will happen. External providers walk, or we pay the tariff and capacity holding cost on our bill. Then, suncore can match that new price and take the new costs for external providers as profit. They call this leveling the field. Level on our backs. Edit: I should say this is where I think it will just be "fine, you can all do what you want" in the end, because this is ridiculous.
Their argument also neglects that these providers are under burdens of their own. They aren't going to neglect where they are for us. So, if capacity is needed as a guarantee, I don't see how this is even feasible. But that's the point.
"Suncor argued that power imports from outside the province should be subject to a tariff, called a “non-commitment recovery charge,” to level the playing field. It also wants the act to be changed to make importers subject to the same “must offer obligation” as generators, thereby guaranteeing power supply to the grid."
Tariffs and protectionist measures shouldn't be needed of oil and gas is the backbone people pretend. Let the industry sink or swim.
Wait does Suncor sell , electricity 😳?
They had a field of windmills down near Pincher (I think) quite a few years ago, even had some experimental vertical turbines at one point.
Edit: quick search tells me they sold it all last year
They are selling off all renewable energy generation assets
Suncor’s newish CEO was created in ExxonMobil’s R&D centre and they are trialling him here in Canada before redeploying him in the States.
Right I forgot about him, it totally fits
Yes they do generate much more electricity than their need using cogeneration. The excess is exported to the grid. They will commission a new 700 MW cogeneration unit in 2024 (not sure the status) and all will be exported to grid.
Once that is built yes but at this time they don’t produce enough electricity
Not sure where you are getting that from cause if you look at the aeso current demand report, suncor is typically generating near capacity. They have just over 950MW of installed capacity with another 800MW coming online soon with the CBR project. They'll be around 1700MW total which puts them around 8% of capacity in Alberta and probably one of the largest producers.
Suncor generates power at sight and if there is excess then they can make it available. The article talks about the fact that the current rules say producers have to provide their maximum at all times, which Suncor wouldn’t be able to do. When there were power issues during the cold snap Suncor could have delivered power to the grid to help but the rules made that not possible.
While I get the Reddit response must always be “oil and gas bad”, not sure that’s true in this case.
Correct answer. With existing rules and open market competition, sites like Suncor and it's locations do infact have excess generation capacity by design but they are free to withhold it if it's not profitable for them to sell.
In times of grid constraints, the pool price can be in excess of $700/MWh and topping out at $999.99/MWh.
The way grid and rules are, make it profitable for certain market participants to allow price to increase and then release their power.
Read between the lines their not getting the same surge pricing as TransAlta and that's the issue.
They have Cogen units in their facilities, from which they can then sell the excess power. Unsure if they have anything else, though.
Large industrial operators are required to provide their own power to their sites.
They sell excess power to the grid.
Theyre the fourth largest electrify generator in the province.
I believe that , just didn't realize they sold it on the market.
They have cogeneration plant on most big sites that use excise steam to spin a turbine. Must big industrial site have something like this to lose their overall power consumption.
I haven't looked in a while, but cogens in the oilsands and other heavy industry produce about 1/3 of Alberta electricity.
We just put brand new co-gens onsite. Reduces greenhouse gases and power generation wastewater. Let’s go!!!
Are those the Mitsubishi units down by Poplar Creek?
Noooo don’t think so. They are gigantic, but honestly I never asked where they put them.
They are at Base Plant. And they are massive 15.5kv generators. Supposed to be fully commissioned by end of 2024.
Not nearly as much as they buy
That's just completely not true, they generate their own power and sell the excess to the grid. They have over 950MW of installed capacity with another 800MW coming online soon.
And it's not natural gas in fort Mac.
They pull energy out of the ground in the form of natural gas and they treat it to a marketable state, why do you think they need to purchase electricity at retail? They all operate peaking plants and sell to the grid. Grid draw is minimal in comparison to what they put in.
Yes they do, they have excess that they sell to the grid
Exactly
There is no low these people and the lobbyist in chief will stoop to in order to grind out a bit more profit from us
Shades of Trump asking for $1B to get elected from the O&G CEOs and promising, in return, removal of most if not all regulations that protect the environment, etc. Also promising to put those same CEOs or their lobbyists into high level govt positions so they can pave the road to more profits.
Seems to me Marlania is likely planning for the same thing
It's kinda hilarious that he's asking for $1B. That's not the sum it used to be. Trump asking oil majors for $1B is like Dr. Evil demanding $1 million from the UN in the 90s.
The new municipal bill literally allows the province to appoint a non elected person to a seat. She could quite literally put these ceo's in positions to collect a cheque and have a vote.
So glad I don’t actually live in AB anymore…
I don't but have a large piece of land as an inheritance. I prefer that when it's transfered to me Alberta has non influenced government and the cult is locked up
Do you have another source that isn't behind a paywall?
A commentor above added it
The feds and provincial regulators want more interconnects, and Suncore doesn't want other provinces to tax imports.
Oh yes, let’s have our power costs go EVEN HIGHER. THAT’LL HELP!
Add managed STORAGE. Buy when electricity is cheap, use it when rates are high.
What ever Suncor wants Danielle Smith will provide. How else is she supposed to keep cashing those cheques from the lobbyist who fund her campaigns.
Remember when deregulation promised lower prices due to all the competitors that would enter the market?
Paywalled, but from the little I could see, here's the problem:
Suncor wants to burn fossil fuel to make power but renewables are already cheaper so they're increasingly going to be sourced in any free market system. This means that all those fossil plants are going to be increasingly idle... or selling at a loss.
Solution: make the cheapest sources of power more expensive so that all those bad bets on polluting the atmosphere don't end up costing the company their shirt.
Thanks for the info. The grid has a lot of moving parts protected by red tape, hopefully the politicians leave it alone and let the proper authorities make that call. https://www.wecc.org/epubs/StateOfTheInterconnection/Pages/Western-Interconnection.aspx
Frau Smith has power to replace them. The current CEO has said he was forced into the current bs
This is why they stopped renewables. Just think what Alberta could have been with a balanced economy that is not up and down controlled by a handful of corporations and a cult
Suncor (and the industry) kinda has a point... Alberta has banned coal fired power generation so now we import coal fired power generation from Sask and Montana ? Doesn't make sense.
Any power that is imported into Alberta should have to be cleaner, emissions wise, than Alberta's power.
Until asshat voters get the ucp out, more of this bullshit will be supported
How much do we honestly import? I scanned the entire southern portion of Alberta through Google Maps and only found a single 230 kV line crossing into Montana. Are BC and Saskatchewan much different?
http://ets.aeso.ca/ets_web/ip/Market/Reports/CSDReportServlet
Montana and Sask are small, 200ish MW each, The BC tie is larger and could be good for 1000 MW but it has issues as well. Right now we are actually exporting a small amount.
Since January when it became news how fucked Alberta has become I have been randomly checking the AESO. BC and to a lesser extent Manitoba via Saskatchewan has been keeping Alberta from brown outs. I'm still trying to find one good thing klien ever did. Electrical distribution need stop be crown with 75% or greater produced by crown. To let private corps dictate is so bad. Even the rea's are corrupt and keep the scheme going.
What’s your thoughts on BCs need to import power this year? Isn’t that the entire point of being tied in with other jurisdictions so that we can rely on each other when we need it. Why is this a bad thing in your view?
When you have western Canada's largest battery why waste it when you can get free power. BC has 2 years of power in reserve. So unlike Alberta our grid is managed. We also have been a net exported to almost the max the interconnect to Alberta can handle. And a prime renewable exporter south from Washington to California. Now that they have built out massive solar farms we are buying cheap power and keeping our battery charged. Unlike Alberta that has no back up plan other than corruption
You didn’t answer the question at all? If BC has two years worth of energy stored then why are they planning on needing to import power this year? Also don’t think with future droughts that BCs reliance on hydro is at risk?
Unlike Alberta BC hydro supplies power all down the coast with long term agreements. BC Hydro is not allergic to other forms of power with numerous ipp projects to be awarded that are non hydro based. So with having a 2 year supply and also the availability of buying power less than it costs to produce and market they buy. This year we bought more than what was sold apparently. Remember BC is between 5 and 8% of Alberta's power.
It's all a give and take, so while we don't import a huge amount, when we do it can be crucial.
In particular, we export to BC when we have lots of power (typically on windy and sunny days when turbines and panels are churning out a lot.) They have a lot more hydroelectric dams, so they will use our excess power during the days and then release more water at night to generate a bit extra to export to us.
So suncor expects outside power companies to commit to full generation capacity during crisis, Even though during your crisis, the other companies main customers may be experiencing equally high demand for the and reasons Alberta is? Am I reading that right?
Don’t worry “Just Cant Do It Dani” will bend over.
Or tell her JT asked. Then she’ll say no right away
Please Oil masters can we have a little light? A little heat? A little power? We promise to wear out I love Oil and gas shirts more! Please!!!
Suncor go home you’re drunk.
2 words… Fuck Off
So when BC saved Alberta’s grid last winter, suncor thinks people should have paid even more for that power?
Fun
Try reading the article before posting.
Can you lend me $1.99 and I will
Ugh fuck off Suncor
Suncor needs to be told to shut the fuck up.
Suncor needs to stay in its lane
They need to have their wings clipped and maybe look at price fixing
Did anyone here commenting actually read the article before going all Rage Badger?
Yes...don't want cheaper rates. Don't want to threaten the alberta energy monopoly!
Wouldn’t requiring importers to import as much as they could reduce our rates, even if a tariff was added. I’m not quite sure why everyone in this thread is so mad. Or maybe I just don’t understand the nuances. Could you explain how this would be bad for albertans?
The tariff will prevent any power coming in. So they can charge surge pricing so let's say normal usage is 10 bucks a unit and then got to a $100 just because. Enron pricing
But that was only part of their ask/complaint. Did you actually read the article? If importers were required to import based on the maximum that they could it would be more power supply to the province which would bring prices down.
What part did you miss. The fact is any competition from outside Alberta is renewable energy which is cheaper to produce globally except Alberta because of the propaganda machine. Smith wants all renewable energy removed from Alberta and only natural gas. Suncor is part of the problem.
Your comment has nothing to do with the article. Not sure how adding supply makes Suncor part of the problem.
They want renewable power surcharged so they make more money. This is about surge pricing as they can't compete with wind solar and hydro
No it’s not at all. You seem clueless
Then explain why Alberta has the highest power cost and the most surcharges. Must be corruption and corporate influence within the Alberta government.
You seem to have a difficult time staying on topic. I think we are done here
Ok I'm just going off of what the title of the post says but how will changing for imported power solve anything?
This is why I left Alberta. Good riddance.
We have crazy "fees" on our power bills case suncore and others promised to build a bunch of big plants and upgraders and never did.
They needed more power and big grid upgrades , promised they would pay for them. Never built anything and never paid for the grid upgrades now we all are paying every month.
“We refuse to ensure enough supply to be able to charge surge prices, but also don’t want to import power to cover increasing needs”
-suncor
This sounds like a neighborhoods HOA complaining that they should get funds from a different neighborhood to help with things.
Reminds me of Elon crying about Chinese EV companies.
My guess is Suncor will get all the corporate welfare it needs from the taxpayers and ratepayers of Alberta.
It'd be really great if people would read the actual article, and people have linked to its archive so no excuse. It'd also be great if people educated themselves just a little about how our grid actually works. Our AESO has continual up to date information as does @reliableab on X. Watch our grid, our different types of production, our imports and exports, and our pool price for a few months, you won't regret it.
So basically Suncor wants it to be a level playing field and has evidence to back it up. Further they actually sell upwards of 500MW to the grid. And that will sky rocket once they finish the CBR project to over 1200MW of generation back to the grid.
Their argument is that other electrical markets get to sit idly by and only ramp up when it's profitable, while they have to help full time.
What's the problem?
Well now we know who is giving Danny the most money. Welcome to Suncor Alberta.
You see, naming rights is an interesting thing. Is it Suncor Alberta or Suncor the land formally known as Alberta or Alberta presented by Suncor?
I like “Suncor formerly know as the democratic province of Alberta.” The Suncor advantage.
ExxonMobil wants loosened environmental regulations, says pesky rules make it hard to make a living 😔
Just like how Trump makes policy
Suncor says, Danielle Smith says okie dokie.
Suncor can fuck off until they’ve paid for their orphan well clean-up’s!
Suncor has orphan wells?
More bullshit
I'll present this to my UCP supporting family, friends, and neighbors as Suncore, a WEF member, calling on Smith to raise our power bills.
It's a decently valid complaint, not sure if a tariff is the answer though.
Why? Because they couldn't keep up with the demand? It's not a valid complaint, it's veiled greed.
If you read the article, power generators inside ab need to provide max capacity when called upon. Suncor sells supplemental power, but they need to sign up as max capacity, so when needed they supply to the grid at the detriment of their own operations.
Importers do not need to provide max capacity, they supply what they want. Thus a power supply that is less reliable than internal producers.
Pretty sad suncor is the voice of the people. What’s wrong with this province? Why doesn’t Danielle step in. This is bullshit.
Most of you probably didn’t read the article. But if you’re wondering suncor doesn’t generate very much electricity at all. Especially compared to imperial. Suncor does have about 800 MW coming online at baseplant this year though.
You're just making things up, that's just not true at all. One single suncor site, Firebag, has 5MW less generating capacity than all of IOL combined.
It takes like 30 seconds to look up on Google, not sure why you would spout off incorrect information like that.
That’s dumb as poop. Supply the need and we won’t import.
UCP - Undeniably Corruption Politicians or United Corporate Puppets.
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Gotta love that Suncor is calling the shots here.
Rural Alberta needs to seriously consider who is running the mad house.
Private CEOs dictating energy grid policies and people are ok with it. That is within the realm of fascism.