whitewashing abusive behaviour with psycho babble they don't comprehend properly just makes them look stupid

Stephen says autism would cause his hours and days long silent treatment/stonewalling/psychological punishment/coervice control of Laura. NO STEPHEN THAT IS ABUSE. In context of some of the incidents (like when he picked her up from the airport after she'd visited her dying aunt and he'd had the kids alone and he didn't speak to her the entire one hour trip or whenever she refused to do what he said or voiced her needs-- he would give her the silent treatment) and as a pattern it is abuse.

Laura says he was abusive to her because of his attachment styles. No LAURA THAT IS ABUSE.

Laura says him calling her six times when she won't answer is proof that "Your attachment styles can fluctuate.. THat's you going from avoidant to anxious" NO LAURA THAT IS ABUSE AND STEPHEN'S ENTITLEMENT TOWARDS YOU AND HIS COERCIVE CONTROL! And attachment styles don't fluctuate like that wildly out of control. Yes attachment styles can change over our lifetime but it's more like on a continuum than an on and off lightbulb. And you just don't understand the concept. Please read a few books on the topic you keep misunderstanding it. You can't try to understand every single little thing someone does to you that's abusive through attachment theory.
It's like she has a book for justifying all the abuse he heaps on her as "Oh that's his autism, that's his this or that....... she's internalised his voice and now his voice is in her head."

A common thing abusers do when you try to tell you something abusive they did to you was NOT OKAY is to twist it around and say "Well no one is perfect, we are all flawed and imperfect humans. You're not perfect are you?" You can see Stephen has been saying this to Laura for over a decade the way she fiercely defends him angrily in the latest video. Every time she mentions how people are mad at Stephen Hilton for the awful AWFUL homophobic, antisemitic, racist and sexist and transphobic and extremist conspiracy theory wacko pro covid, anti reproductive rights for women, anti vaccine, bullying of anyone old, fat or queer and inciting violence towards them etc --- she says BUT I AM NOT PERFECT! I am a flawed person. We are all flawed. As if this makes it okay. She will then put herself down in classic abused woman Stockholm syndrome . (I've lost count of the times she's done this) She will say -- "Oh well people are mad at Hilton for being homophobic online but......... I am awful too- we all are-- I am a big personality and hard to live with...." UM. What?????? We can all be annoying to live with but she's comparing two totally different things here.
Or "people are mad at Stephen Hilton for his year plus long of posting hate content but --- ALL PEOPLE SHOULD CARE ABOUT IS THAT HE SHOWS UP FOR HIS KIDS."
WTF ----------- she's in denial or ignorant bliss or PR marketing mop off repair mode more like it. I think she doesn't want to know the reality of what he's been doing and how it's potentially harmed her sponsorships and advertising deals etc and alienated well over half their loyal and long term fan base.
Oh so Laura- it's okay that someone's gay son was pushed off a cliff to their death in a murderous hate crime inspired by someone who watched Hilton's content because he SHOWS UP FOR HIS KIDS??? WTF???? He is exposing his kids to endless bullying and discrimination by posting this content alongside their faces and addresses. That is not showing up for his kids.

A- he doesn't show up for his kids. He can't even do their car seat belts up properly. He can't even cook them a meal. He admitted he spent the entire marriage staring at his phone rather than interacting with his children. He drives dangerously and whilst under the influence of drugs. He can't even have them unsupervised. She gets her nanny to mind them over night if she has a date night and he stays home alone moaning on his tik Tok lives. He booked a ticket to go overseas to chase his latest love interest who he'd been cheating on on Poppy's bday!! He does not show up for the kids. He uses them as props in his sick exploitation videos to try to make himself look good in a sick caricature of parenting. He should yell "PERFORM MONKEYS PERFORM!" every time he shoves the camera in their faces, wear a ring leader outfit and carry a little whip. That would make more sense.

CONCLUSION: Hilton justifies his abusive behaviour by weaponising therapy speak and autistic excuses. He has conditioned Laura with these manipulations for so long she truly and passionately believes it.

Laura tries to look smart and uses pop psychology phrases out of context and throws out random things she's heard from her therapist and tik Tok to try to justify his abusive behaviour towards her. (You can see she's really angry that people can see who Hilton truly is without the mask and I don't know if it offends her ego and pride that she gets SO ANGRY about it or it's more punishing from Hilton ..) Sadly we can see she doesn't understand the theory of the psychological principles she's discussing and just like her desperate attempts in the armchair of Dr Amen's room trying to push for a diagnosis of Hilton to understand how badly he treated her through a patholigising medicalised lens--- it doesn't work.
Drop the diagnosis speak. HE IS AN ABUSIVE MAN. Don't waste time trying to understand him and psycho analyse him. That is a waste of your energy.
Just ask yourself "WHAT DO I DESERVE? DO I DESERVE THIS?"

And you know the answer. You know you deserve better. You know you DO NO deserve this treatment.

in StephenHiltonSnarkby RowBig8091

98%

11d

RowBig8091

11d

Dear Laura this quote is for you--- “IN ONE IMPORTANT WAY, an abusive man works like a magician: His tricks largely rely on getting you to look off in the wrong direction, distracting your attention so that you won’t notice where the real action is.

He draws you into focusing on the turbulent world of his feelings to keep your eyes turned away from the true cause of his abusiveness, which lies in how he thinks.

He leads you into a convoluted maze, making your relationship with him a labyrinth of twists and turns.

He wants you to puzzle over him, to try to figure him out, as though he were a wonderful but broken machine for which you need only to find and fix the malfunctioning parts to bring it roaring to its full potential.

His desire, though he may not admit it even to himself, is that you wrack your brain in this way so that you won’t notice the patterns and logic of his behavior, the consciousness behind the craziness.”

― Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men

EffyMourning

11d

Both of their ignorance when it comes to autism is really fucking awful. I have two sons with ASD and though very different neither do any of what Stephen and her claim is what it is. I feel bad for Alfie having them as parents

No-Educator5450

11d

Same. I have a 23 year old son with Asperger's. Stephen is more of a sociopath and personality disorder than anything
. This blaming his disgusting behaviour on autism is just sickening.

J-yes-I-can

11d

This should be pinned to the top of the sub. Bravo! It’s spot on, thank you for writing it!

RowBig8091

11d

Thank you. I should've called it weaponising therapy speak ...

ManicPixyDrmgrl

10d

Yes it is exactly that. It's what I was coming here to say.

RowBig8091

NightPhysical1528

11d

This is such a good post. You can only hope one or both of them will read it and take it in. They're both making choices, and excuses. Neither of them is taking responsibility, especially in regards to their kids. Shitstain is a horrible, self absorbed egocentric, abusive prick. He can't blame autism for that. Clery is using her ditzy twat persona so she doesn't have to acknowledge her situation or make the tough decisions to change her life for the better. They're both immature idiots who refuse to step up for their kids. Using the kids as an excuse to stay in a horrible relationship and hold on to ridiculous material possessions for clout put a terrible, unfair burden on them. Fuck those two. They'll reap what they sow.

pbutterw

11d

They may read it but it won’t sink in. Trying to reason with these two is like playing chess with a pidgeon… you know the rest 🤣

Your80sMom

11d

CAN THIS BE PINNED? We need to send this to Laura over and over and over again so she can NEVER avoid it

RowBig8091

11d

That would be awesome.. :)

bluepony_0628

11d

This is the best post on here. I agree, PIN!!!!

RowBig8091

11d

Thank you. I've had a lot of personal and professional experience with abusers and have too many degrees in this area. Seeing someone bastardise psychological theories that they don't understand for manipulation or PR is upsetting!

bluepony_0628

10d

Sending love and strength! It is infuriating!!!

Big_Depth9773

11d

[GIF]

RowBig8091

11d

Lol thanks!

Careless-Awareness-4

11d

Honestly, I think Laura really doesn't have the sense itself. That's why she just absorbs and agrees with everything says. And even if she had her own thoughts and ethics she would never challenge him. My way I truly believe that she thinks she can handle him when she's still in love with him. I know that I had a very hard time with my ex-husband because I thought I loved him still and I could handle him but it wasn't loved ot was the trauma Bond. He had broken down so much that I didn't have any of my own thoughts. If I did I wouldn't tell him I was too exhausting and dangerous. I'm a very outgoing, passionate and ethical person. I allowed him to take that from me. I took on the persona of a bubbly airhead. Well I don't really feel sorry for her. I can understand what's happening. The problem is even if you do this to protect yourself, you can't handle them. He will eventually cycle back to hurting you without any remorse. He will hurt his children.

RowBig8091

11d

I'm sorry you went through this. I relate to what you're saying. Abusers often target often bubbly and outgoing people (with vulnerabilities that they can exploit) because they have everything they don't.
You understand exactly how they change and how that emotional abuse can scar you and permanently change you. He loves that she tries to puzzle over him and work him out as it's wasted energy rather than saying what she will or won't tolerate and draw a line in the sand.

Quick_Natural_7978

My husband is autistic, and the way Stephen tries to excuse his horrible behavior as just another autistic quirk is insulting. No Stephen, autism is not an excuse to be a lousy human being, and you are setting an awful example for A in that way. You and Laura are also teaching P that it is a-okay to accept abuse from a romantic partner.

RowBig8091

Well said. He looks for any excuse in particular something diagnostic along medical lines to wipe his hands of any accountability for his abusive behaviour. But abusive behaviour is abusive behaviour. It doesn't matter what their childhood was like, what their attachment style is , what their mental health is or their diagnosis's-- it is ABUSE and should not be tolerated.

Quick_Natural_7978

Which doesn't help people living with those diagnoses who are actively trying to be decent human beings.

RowBig8091

THE MYTHS ABOUT ABUSERS
1. He was abused as a child.
2. His previous partner hurt him.
3. He abuses those he loves the most.
4. He holds in his feelings too much.
5. He has an aggressive personality.
6. He loses control.
7. He is too angry.
8. He is mentally ill.
9. He hates women.
10. He is afraid of intimacy and abandonment. HILTON EVEN SAID THIS ONE RECENTLY ABOUT DELLA AND TANITH
11. He has low self-esteem.
12. His boss mistreats him.
13. He has poor skills in communication and conflict resolution.
14. There are as many abusive women as abusive men.
15. His abusiveness is as bad for him as for his partner.
16. He is a victim of racism.
17. He abuses alcohol or drugs.”
― Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men

RowBig8091

“ABUSIVE MEN COME in every personality type, arise from good childhoods and bad ones, are macho men or gentle, “liberated” men.

No psychological test can distinguish an abusive man from a respectful one. Abusiveness is not a product of a man’s emotional injuries or of deficits in his skills.

In reality, abuse springs from a man’s early cultural training, his key male role models, and his peer influences. In other words, abuse is a problem of values, not of psychology. When someone challenges an abuser’s attitudes and beliefs, he tends to reveal the contemptuous and insulting personality that normally stays hidden, reserved for private attacks on his partner.

An abuser tries to keep everybody—his partner, his therapist, his friends and relatives—focused on how he feels, so that they won’t focus on how he thinks, perhaps because on some level he is aware that if you grasp the true nature of his problem, you will begin to escape his domination.”
― Lundy Bancroft, Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men

macandobound

10d

this is such a vibe with them. i really also think they're both so fucking privileged that they can't see the difference between actual harmful behavior to people less privileged than them (especially lgbtq CHILDREN stephen has harmed with his shit) and "OH NO EVERYONE THINKS I'M BAD FROM BIRTH AND CAN NEVER BE REDEEMED." making real amends takes responsibility, humility, and THE CONSENT OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE MAKING AMENDS TO. both of them have focused SO LITTLE on anything like that

RowBig8091

Yeah. Stephen Hilton is an extremely manipulative person and has a way with justifying his actions with diagnostic psychobabble lies and also with justifying why his critics are nothing by using personal attacks and sweeping statements and generalisations

--- ie he says---- all the people protesting his hate speech online are "just the vocal minority" or his old one "are just blue haired nose ringed lefties" or his old other one he used to snare Della Dream and justify his victim status online as "lefties are so mean and attack me so much" despite the fact they were REACTING to his horrible bullying and hate crimes online.

His manipulative speech elevates himself above reproach and above criticism. It's quite evil.

Stephen Hilton's entitled rationale and non stop victim status goes like this ---------"No one can criticise me because the people who do are just bad minority odd balls etc and whenever I've psychologically tortured and hurt my wife in a pattern of abusive behaviour and coercive control-- "that's just because I"m autistic." etc etc etc

Voirdearellie

10d

First, I want to be clear that I overall agree with you. I do believe what Hilton did is abusive to Laura. Abuse is highly subjective, as is trauma, and what wounds one may not another. What one couple finds abusive, another may find playful banter. In that respect, at least within the UK divorce system, there's a 'reason for divorce' called 'unreasonable behaviour'. This is a subjective categorisation that permits a spouse to divorce, due to behaviour they personally cannot accept.

There are, of course, objective signs and markers that we look out for when looking at abuse. Hilton does, from the outside looking in at the situations presented, meet many of these.

It is also a point worth considering, that the subjective internal experience and intention of one person, and the subjective internal experience of the other, are not always matched up. By which I mean, Hilton may not have intended to be abusive, but his behaviour may have caused harm to Laura. While intent does not remove or mitigate the wounds Laura may have to carry and heal, understanding the deeper workings of these complex interpersonal sociocultural events is important in identifying, preventing, and saving lives.

Now, as someone who is also neurodivergent....maybe I'm playing devils advocate a little? That isn't my intention. Instead, I wish to separate out a few things, neurodivergence v abuse. Because I see this happen a lot, where people think autism and ADHD becomes indistinguishable or synonymous with abusive. This could not be further from the truth, and statistically, we are at higher risk of being victimised than victimising.

Anyway, I do know from my own personal experience, there are times where my parents for example have come to help me complete some house projects. I am of course grateful, privileged, and overjoyed to see them and have that help available to me. But over the course of the visit, my usually relatively quiet, controlled by me, little one bedroom home with my two quiet well behaved (mostly, yes I'm looking at you demanding Daphne lol) dogs, becomes populated by overexcited dogs who are happy to see nanny and grandad, woofs and pants, the sounds of banging nails and drilling, conversation and conversations interrupted. It becomes overwhelming for me as I begin to experience fatigue. I get overstimulated and overwhelmed. My mum is a literal godsend, she's pretty good at picking up when I'm flagging, and she'll make polite excuses to head out. But I do notice for my own part, that my conversation and replies get less and less, I flinch at every noise, and look like I am pained. I am pained. It isn't pained AT my parents, I love them. It's just too much stimulation.

I *can understand* the task of caring for two young children all day alone, might be a lot. Even though he loves his kids, and wanted to do support Laura in her grief of loosing a loved one. But after doing so, by the time he got to the airport, I could see myself not wanting anyone to say a word or breathe too loudly, as unreasonable as that might sound.

Having been on the receiving end of what felt like the silent treatment, though. I know how jarring, hurtful, and challenging to comprehend that can feel. So I could see the airport thing being a genuine example of sensory overstimulation, and shut down because of it.

That, however understandable, doesn't really excuse this overarching 'entitlement' he exemplifies towards her and at times the children too.

Voirdearellie

10d

'refusing to do what he said' is controlling. I don't have much to say about that, there's always room to compromise between adults and there's always a middle ground to meet both parties needs.

Calling multiple times when you refuse to answer, circumstances and context is important here. I have anxiety, it is mine to manage, no one else's. That said, one of my biggest fears is that a loved one will die and I won't get to say good.bye (hello abandonment issues resulting from adoption as a baby, that I haven't figured out how to heal). So, if I know someone should be in touch, and they're not, or they're late to meet up my anxiety will spike and in that panic I will call repeatedly. My **intention** is not control, but to ascertain they are okay. It's concern and anxiety, and although maladaptive and misplaced, it's rooted in my love for them. I'm also deeply routine based, I know it takes 20-30 mins for my parents to arrive home, and my mum texts when they arrive home. Deviation from this, especially as it pertains to my parents, spikes my anxiety so fast it'll give you whiplash. I am working on it, but this has been something to present since such young age, that my mum would have to call my primary school as this was before phones to let them know to let me know she was home safe from her appointment, by which point I'd likely pulled the skin off my lips and nails until they bled profusely.

Conversely, and what is more likely here with what we know, Hilton feels entitled to Laura. Just in general. So when he calls, as he is entitled to her, mind body and soul, he is entitled and owns her time. She should answer, and he is furious when she doesn't. That is abuse.

This next part is more....about my own experience of surviving abuse, and my healing than neurodivergence, though it's probably all interlinked. But I am someone who finds comfort and solace in understanding and knowledge. I was able to manage my childhood trauma day to day because I looked into paraphilia and gained a deeper understanding of why what who and how. It doesn't excuse the damage, but I can put that particular item in a box, and live day to day without thinking on it too much. It is because of this, and deep introspection, that I feel I have been struggling to put my ex-husband in a box. I am so entirely bewildered by him and how he treated me that I just can't figure it out, I can't work out why. Now he's remarried, to someone I would almost call my twin, I am only further perplexed.

The difference between Laura and me, is I had a clean break and while I am able to privately ponder, she needs to co-parent (if you can call Hiltons haphazard presence that, but whatever). It's very possible that objectively, she knows what you've said is absolutely true. But, it is very difficult to keep a civil relationship with an abuser and keep them in your life. I had it while I was trapped in the USA and was trying to get home to the UK, I couldn't consider that I was being abused while I had no other choice but to live in the same house as my abuser. So I just simply didn't acknowledge it.

With her life being so public, and yes that is her choice, but I doubt she made her life public with the thought this might be the result. She's in somewhat of a paradox. I could understand if she felt like she had to account and justify not only her choices, whether to acknowledge he has abused her or head in the sand to survive and coparent, but to also account for **his**. It isn't fair, it isn't right and it should never be her responsibility. But so often society looks to women and asks, why did YOU stay. Not why were THEY abusive. Why did YOU return. Not how did THEY make you believe you should.

So, yes I understand and mostly agree with what you've said here. But, I would urge all of us to keep in mind that we can never know all the details of a public figure - or anyone we are not directly involved with, and even then sometimes we don't know all. There are likely aspects and contexts at play that we have not been aware of, have not considered, and ultimately irregardless, we are not these people. They, and only they, have the right to label their trauma and abuse. By removing that power from them, you are victimising them once more and removing control from them, something that has already been done over, and over and over again. Please, Laura is not a foolish woman, she understands what is happening, what has happened.

We are all imperfect people, making often time-sensitive decisions, with incomplete information, without a crystal ball to see how the chips fall. Give people grace, offer empathy, and lead with love.

Love you all bunches <3

RowBig8091

With all due respect - domestic violence and coercive control is not subjective. It's a pattern of behaviour.

Perhaps I could've listed a lot more examples to show it was a pattern of abuse but I didn't have time and didn't want the post to be too long. Hilton has laughed about it in videos he posted after the break up. He laughed that Laura was hurt because he gave her the silent treatment for days at a time. He didn't have the kids with him when he went to pick up Laura from the airport. They were with their nanny. And Laura has done the lions share of child raising and Hilton has not done much at all.

Pondering on his intent just falls down into the same rabbit hole Laura has been sucked into=-- wondering over him, trying to armchair psycho analyse him, try to understand his motivations childhood, attachment style etc etc bla bla bla bla.. No this is a terrible disempowering place to fall into.
If someone is abusive towards you. They are abusive towards you. It doesn't matter what excuses or reasons or 'context' there is. There are no justifications or excuses.

I appreciate you sharing your experience thank you. It is possible to need time and space after being overwhelmed in a way that doesn't punish or hurt your partner though.
I guess it is important to note that Laura is not Stephen Hilton's mother though . It's wonderful your mother can gauge you without you having to say anything but a partner is a different scenario.

If Hilton was overwhelmed he could communicate that to Laura and let her know he could talk again in five or ten or 15 minutes. But he never did that- he would continue the silent treatment abusive punishment for hours or days and Laura would never ever know when it would end. He would do it in classic abuser style if she tried to bring something up with him that bothered her or wasn't okay- and he could twist the whole thing around so that after days of being cruelly ignored she would be begging him to talk to her and apologising to him even though she'd done nothing wrong.

Thanks so much for your comment. Always a topic that deserves good debate... :D

Voirdearellie

Maybe I didn’t articulate myself best. I agree that abuse and coercive control is an observable pattern of behaviour.

When I said that trauma and abuse are subjective, I more meant that we all have different thresholds.

There have been studies looking at why two survivors of the same event might have different long term outcomes, with one having PTSD and the other not. Or with both having PTSD, but one healing from it and the other being unable to.

The studies mention factors such as risk factors and resilience factors that may affect and contribute to outcomes of individuals.

Before I continue, I feel it’s important to note that with the exception of my current relationship, I have never been in a healthy one. Both marriages were abusive, and a string of toxic relationships on a more casual framing have left me single up until this April. By choice I wanted to make sure I was not the problem in these relationships, and to ensure whatever relationship I did or didn’t have was on the healthiest possible ground. What I talk about in previous comments and below is somewhat reflective of this. I don’t have all the answers but having experienced what I have, I’ve spent a lot of time trying to understand things the best I can. This is what I find comfort in, everyone is different. I am not analysing anyone, just trying to understand things.

Ultimately, it is for Laura to decide if she has been abused. Not us. I stand by that, with respect.

That aside, in the context of any interpersonal dynamic people have different boundaries and expectations. What works between one couple would be deeply disrespectful to another, and therefore continuing deeply disrespectful behaviour from that person to their partner would subjectively be abusive and detrimental to their partner. For the couple whom find this behaviour is acceptable or works within their partnership, it is not disrespectful and therefore not abusive.

With the understanding that I am responsible for my triggers, no one else: my partner knows I have an anxiety trigger around something happening to loved one’s while they’re out and I wouldn’t be able to say goodbye. Knowing this, he makes sure to text when he gets home safely.

For some this might seem like he has to inform me of his movements. It could feel controlling, or demanding. But when we discussed it he assured me that he understands where it comes from and because of that, has no problem letting me know.

Both of us have ADHD, but I’ve been diagnosed and on medication for two years while he is just beginning the diagnosis process. As such I’ve been able to add some reminders of his to my established systems to help him out. This doesn’t make me his mother, nor does reminding him make him feel as though I am demanding or controlling. This works for us because we care about each other and know that we are both coming from a place of love and a wish for the other to thrive. We discuss the options and offered solutions, he chose to use my system to help him and I think that’s perhaps the difference.

If I were simply adding tasks and demanding completion, that would be controlling and demanding. The collaboration is perhaps the distinction.

I do understand and agree it is all too easy to get diverted by psychoanalysing people in general. I think humans in general like order and sense, and hurting someone for no reason doesn’t make sense to many of us.

Regardless, seeking to contextualise and understand does not mean excusing or justifying. Instead, when you say abusers are abusers and that’s it, you are discarding entire groups of people who could have been rehabilitated. That isn’t the victims responsibility, not at all. But if everyone takes the same approach as you here, no one would ever seek to find ways to prevent and rehabilitate these damaged individuals to prevent the perpetuation of harm.

When you say abusers are abusers and that’s it, you discount the experiences of those like me who do want to understand and who find comfort and meaning in a deeper understanding of the context and topics of why and how these people become so damaged they damage their victims.

Please don’t diminish victims because they aren’t thinking or acting the way you think they should. It’s so harmful. 💕