Need help translating Saint name

Discussion

I work at a cafe and regular customer and I have been chatting about orthodox Christianity. I have a degree in religious philosophy and she has a degree in classic literature. The other day I asked if she had a favorite saint and she replied yes but she didn’t know the name in English. She proceeded to write this down for me and explained this saint has no image associated with it. I’d seriously appreciate any translation of this and perhaps what she means, as I assumed most saints had an image for veneration purposes? There’s a bit of a language barrier so I’m wondering if there’s a miscommunication in the term “saint?” Thank you!

in Serbianby coffee_with_oatmilk

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milun_

"Hard walnut is a peculiar fruit. You'll not break it, but it will break your teeth."

It's from Mountain Wreath by Petar II Petrović Njegoš

coffee_with_oatmilk

Any more context around this you’d know? Perhaps how it’s commonly understood?

milun_

In the book, it is said by Danilo, Mitropolitan of Cetinje when he answer a letter from Selim Vesir in which Vesir calls Montenegro to be their vasal and that they have no chance to deny cause they are "a head of cabage", and "a mouse against a lion".

It means something like we are small but be carefull, you can "break your teeth" if you fight us.

It is mostly history and opinion about Serbs, their neighbours, big powers at that time, and a word about "poturice" (Serbs who become muslim during ottoman occupation)

The book and the writter are important for Serbs since Montenegrins claims to be their (by nationality), Serbs see him like Montenegrin, but just like his place of living/birth, etnycally a Serb.

Hence the popularity among nationalists.

The book is also translated in many languages.

coffee_with_oatmilk

This was so helpful, I can’t express my gratitude enough. I’ll be sure to look into this more seriously

coffee_with_oatmilk

Another question, you’ve answered so much no hard feelings if you don’t respond. So what I do with all my time is draw religious icons, primarily Buddhist as I am a practicing Buddhist. As a kind gesture I was probing with the repeat customer about saints because I wanted a draw a saint for her. I am an apprentice at a frame shop so I’d also put it in a very nice frame. If I gave her a piece of art depicting Danilo as a holy person, do you think she’d take any offense to that? I know from a few conversations with a Russian orthodox priest in my city that only orthodox artists can make holy images for churches, I wouldn’t assume my friend would mind as it’s a personal gift, but the thought occurred to me.

I certainly wouldn’t do a negligent job with the art either. Although I’m certainly a starving artist, I have had my own gallery show so my work is decent enough to be displayed professionally.

milun_

It depends on the person. I know a lot of orthodox people, some of them are kinda extreme, and they can call heresy on little things like keychains or even pens with engraving. Some are fine with every way of depicting holy people, even 3D statues of Christ like Latin Catholics own.

People who paint churches have a blessing of the priest to paint them. But churches do buy artworks from "random" people, and then they bless the artwork (osveštavanje) and are fine with that.

A lot of people buy cnc engraved wood icons from instagram, and they tattoo monasteries and saints on them, but that is something we call "powerslavlje". Both are considered nonorthodox by many.

So it is risky, you should know their view of Christianity well. If it is indeed religious or just traditional practice.

coffee_with_oatmilk

They are indeed religious as they told me their room is full of orthodox icons. I think I’ll take my chances, hopefully it’s impressive enough that even if she is a bit apprehensive she’ll look past it haha. Thanks!

bozho93

Draw a portrait of Njegoš for her. He is widely respected as both a secular and religious figure, as he was both a prince and a bishop. And also, as you have noticed, he is a very famous author, poet and philosopher. Besides, he was a fascinating person and very modern and forward thinking for his times (fun fact, Njegoš introduced the game of billiard to Montenegro). Given that she picked a quote by Njegoš to write for you, I think she'll be very pleased with your artwork. I would advise against painting him as a saint according to the orthodox canon. Not that she would be offended by it, but I think regular portrait would be more appreciated. Also, there are tons of references online, both paintings and actual photos.

coffee_with_oatmilk

Thanks for the insight, I definitely will

milun_

You're welcome. You probably found it yourself, but in case you didn't, here you can see Njegoš on 20 RSD bill

Jazzlike-Composer-43

Njegos is no saint nor holy person. You can freely draw him.

coffee_with_oatmilk

Thanks for your input. Out of curiosity, if this figure was indeed a saint, do you think there would be reason for me to not draw him as someone’s who’s not Christian?

Simets83

You can draw any and all saints including Jesus and even God. It's not forbidden in Christianity

Jazzlike-Composer-43

I think it's prohibited. But I'm not 100% sure.

New_Phone_3687

You shuld read book. Love it.

coffee_with_oatmilk

Wow thanks!!!!! This really helps

No_Ad_3488

In addition to being a great artist, Njegoš was also a great womanizer and apparently died of syphilis. He lived to the fullest.

elvy75

Not confirmed, just rumors. The official cause of death was tuberculosis.

No_Ad_3488

Yes,we will never know for sure what the cause of death was.

KatarinaDobricic

"A hard walnut is a strange fruit - you won't break it, but it will break your teeth". (It sounds way better in Serbian, believe me).

It's a famous quote from "Mountain Wreath" (Gorski vijenac" by Petar Petrović Njegoš) tied to the character of Metropolitan Danilo (a title in Ortodox church, same rank as bishop I think). He is a real life character but neither he, nor the writer, who was also a prominent church figure, are canonized as saints.

If you plan to research more on it, it will be easier for you to have it in latin script - Tvrd je orah voćka čudnovata, ne slomi ga, al' zube polomi.

bozho93

Njegoš was recognised as a saint by Metropolitanate of Montenegro and the Littoral, a diocese of Serbian Orthodox Church, in 2013. There was some controversy about it, and I'm not sure if the entire SOC recognise him as a saint. But if the person from the post is from Montenegro, chances are he/she would have referred to him as a saint.

coffee_with_oatmilk

The Latin translation is very helpful, thank you!

ilic_mls

It is still in serbian, just a latin script. We use both cyrilic and latin scripts when we write. So it is in the same language

shcke

Are you sure she didn't misheard you? Perhaps she taught you said: What's your favorite saying (as in an often repeated quote like Veni Vidi Vici, or something similar)?

As many have said, it's a quote from Njegos, but I'm not sure whether he's a saint or not. Even if he is, I doubt anyone thinks of him as that when talking about him. He's more of a political and literature figure.

coffee_with_oatmilk

Damn I hadn’t considered this, haha this is probably the most likely!

Mtanic

There is no saint (like a person) connected to this (I studied theology and worked in the Church for years).

Others explained what it is. Knowing the education background of the person you talk to, it's actually no wonder she'd say such clueless stuff.

coffee_with_oatmilk

So would you say her understanding of this quote being attributed to a saint is a more regional belief which wouldn’t be broadly accepted in the Orthodox Church?

slavuj00

How can she have a degree in classic literature and think this is being attributed to a saint? Surely she knows the provenance of the quote, it's well known.

Someone commented above about the Metropolitan Danilo and the conflict between the Serbian and Montenegrin churches recognition of his sainthood which may explain what she meant... But I think there must have been some kind of miscommunication here between you both.

coffee_with_oatmilk

She mentioned she was from Montenegro so perhaps but there is a real language barrier and we often get a bit lost with each other in conversation

thebottomoftheworld

I think she misunderstood you. She thought you said “What’s your favourite *saying” where you said “What’s your favourite Saint”

coffee_with_oatmilk

I’ve come to realize this is most likely what happened haha, thanks to all the help under this post

obama___prism

"hard walnut is an odd fruit,it won't break but your teeth will" or something along those lines. it sounds better in serbian and when you read it in a context of small dutchy montenegro(hard walnut) resisting the ottoman empire(teeth)

Vukling

Hard nut strange fruit is xD seća li se još neko? Pored drugih hitova kao što su "can't mix grandmothers and frogs"

Suitable-Jury4734

You can use Google translate for that, it's easy 😎

Complex-Education-49

In literal translation, it would be The nut is hard Strange fruit It doesn't break him, But he breaks his teeth.

Zealousideal_Fix3795

Goreg prevoda dugo nisam cuo hhahahhahahahaahaaahah

Complex-Education-49

Sprdam se brt hahahahhahah, nisam bio kreativan a prvobitno sam planirao napisati nešto na engleskom, ne vezano za ovaj citat u postu hahah. Inače sam čekao prvu reakciju, kako bih obrisao komentar. Očekivao sam odg poput tvog

Tzikolones

Pres konferencija - Željko Obradović 2005

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