Want to frustrate my Cradle-obsessed friends (in good fun). Is there a PF/Fantasy series that is BETTER than Cradle?

Request

My friends have fallen head over heels for Cradle. I'm looking for a progression fantasy series or general fantasy, actually, that is considered definitively better than Cradle. I'm gonna read that instead, which should really piss them off. As long as I can point to something that can strongly make the case this series is better, that should do the job.

If there isn't one in progression fantasy (obviously 'definitively better' is a subjective term), general fantasy is completely fine.

Would love to find something that I can make a strong case for (again general fantasy is fine), and hope I didn't piss off any Cradle fans too bad.

in ProgressionFantasyby Yavyavyavyav

76%

17d

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Xyzevin

17d

I personally like Dungeon Crawler Carl and The Immortal great souls series more

12 Miles below is slowly creeping up higher then Cradle too. A few more books in the series and I’m confident I’ll like it more

Don’t get me wrong I love Cradle. Its what got me in the PF space and the first book series I was ever obsessed with

G_Morgan

17d

I prefer Cradle but I'd also point to The Immortal Great Souls as a series that does something better than Cradle.

In terms of story craft Cradle is a force of nature. It is the definition of minimalism. There is near enough nothing that doesn't need to exist in the series. Everything is pretty much in the right proportions as well.

However despite what a great exercise in story 'engineering' Cradle is the prose is very prosaic.

Bastion has great prose. The descriptions are inventive and nobody could call the raw text boring. However in terms of the 'engineering' of the story, it tends to meander a lot more than Cradle. There's entire sections that I'd say don't need to exist. If you want a "get to the point" story then this series is far less it than Cradle is.

Southforwinter

17d

Man if immortal great souls had an interesting magic and progression system instead of "Pick one of two options without knowing what they are" it could really be something great but we're three books in and the main character hasn't made single choice in his progression. Also every single person having increasing numbers of discrete unique abilities is getting clumsy already.

It's a pity since the prose is pretty good as you said, and the setting is fascinating.

(I realize that characters who keep journals are slightly better off there but Scorio doesn't).

Xyzevin

17d

This comment I disagree the most with. The magic system and progression system is one of Bastion’s main appeals. Its definitely something more unique and layered then Cradle’s magic system.

The system doesn’t allow them to pick their powers directly because they choose what kind of person they want to be and the power manifests accordingly. That’s infinitely more interesting then another story of a guy crafting from his spell book to get generic elemental magic. Bastion’s magic is rooted in an aspect of character building and development. Thats fun and interesting

The unique abilities for everyone is what makes each character feel important and noteworthy and not just “side character #3”. It makes every fight feel chaotic and fun and random where you don’t know what’s gonna happen next or how Scorio will overcome an obstacle. It makes even side characters have an impact on the story because their specific ability might be just what the characters need to move forward. And more then anything it shows the authors range and creativity

Southforwinter

17d

The magic system isn't unique, it's western cultivation with all agency stripped out.

It also doesn't have layers, it's the most railroaded system of progression I'm currently aware of you just work your way from one level to the next and hope original you got something neat at that point.

The getting powers based on your personality thing and choices would be a lot more interesting if you had y'know more then two choices that tenuously link to whatever power the author pulled out of a hat.

The character making an educated choice and looking at their own strengths, weaknesses and preferences to determine if they want to be a ranged or melee fighter for instance is much more rooted who they are then what they picked in a dream quest.

Compared to a story where characters are more or less pulling elemental magic out of books like Evander Tailor, Bastion has the depth of a puddle.

The unique abilities thing was fine when people had one or two, at four and counting it's a mess.

It makes even side characters have an impact on the story because their specific ability might be just what the characters need to move forward.

It is good for ass pulls and deus ex machina granted, for me at least that's not a benefit.

Xyzevin

17d

It also doesn't have layers, it's the most railroaded system of progression I'm currently aware of you just work your way from one level to the next and hope original you got something neat at that point.

I feel like you’re purposely ignoring all the other facets of the system.

The 9 different mana types and their corresponding characteristic, the different techniques for manipulating the mana, the ingenious hearts themselves and there capabilities(depth, reactivity, size etc), the different abilities granted by leveling up(shrouds, ferula’s, etc) the trials and there different avenues to attack(yea there is only 2 choices per trial but that still adds up to about 20 different routes they could have went) alongside the varied and specific abilities. All that mixed together for every single character makes it complex and layered by sheer volume of choices and stylistic sensibilities

The lack of choice for the ability themselves does not make it less intricate or complex(no different from most litrpg systems) You just don’t like it(which is fair but doesn’t take away from the creativity) mainly cause from a meta perspective we can see the amount of different routes any character can go

The character making an educated choice and looking at their own strengths, weaknesses and preferences to determine if they want to be a ranged or melee fighter for instance is much more rooted who they are then what they picked in a dream quest.

Picking their super power is definitely not more indicative in who they are over living through their past lives and growing more in-tuned with who they were and who they want to be.

The unique abilities thing was fine when people had one or two, at four and counting it's a mess.

It’s chaotic not a mess. From the perspective of the characters having more choices and avenues of attack is a way for them to advance. Personally I would prefer that then have generic fire ball. I don’t understand how its any different then the magic system of Naruto, most characters in that series had several different abilities each as well.

It is good for ass pulls and deus ex machina granted, for me at least that's not a benefit.

This is Only if the ability isnt hinted at or implemented correctly. So far Phil Tucker hasn’t had this problem.