When planting trees (specifically olive trees) is there any downside to going with something that isn’t traditional square rows? I’d rather have my grove feel like a forest of sorts, what would be the best design without hurting productivity?
Square rows are boring, are there any downsides to offset or triangle rows?
land + planting designA triangle of rows would be a good compromise
Hexagons maybe. Each plant has six plants surrounding it.
Sounds like that might allow more trees in a smaller area, is that the case?
Looks like it is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_packing
Triangle provides less trees per acre and is good for less fertile land. It is equally easy to tend to square or rectangle patterns.
Hexagon with seventh tree in the center gives about 15% more trees per acre but is harder to tend.
Which is just another triangle layout.
Kind of, depending on how you look at it.
If you pop a centre point in a hexagon you'll be planting 6 triangles made up of 7 plants. It might be cool to space your hexagons to give walk spacw?
oh wow thats a neat layout
Non-linear rows. Curved rows on contour are both attractive and functional.
less accessable perimeter so its harder to tend to the plants in the center
You need access to harvest olives. Specifically you want enough space to get nets down on the ground all around the tree. As long as you have that you are good!
If you don’t need vehicles to get in to this should be fine.
I live in Greece and see a lot of wasted space in the olive groves. I’m looking to buy one and turn it into a food forest. It’s such a shame to see at the end of each March the olive trees are pruned to an inch of their lives and then the cuttings are burned. This is in on an island where the ground is tough to farm and no one uses mulch. So wasteful!
triangle pattern makes rows. each tree will be part of 3 rows. They have to be equilateral though.
Rows are primarily for harvesting convenience with machinery + simplicity of layouts. It’s not for the productivity of the trees, as long as each tree has enough space to grow the positioning relative to other trees isn’t important for tree health and production. So just think about your harvest and maintenance plan. What machinery, if anything, are you going to need to bring through? Plan with that in mind (and remember to account for the eventual adult size of the trees).
I’ve seen an orchard designed in a spiral, with a wide path large enough to drive a pickup truck in to refresh the chip mulch or whatever.
That's not for planting trees. IIRC the community here criticized that for too much brickwork, use of landscaping fabric, and wasting space. It could be a cool vegetable garden for someone, it's definitely functional, but it's not really permaculture.
I think one thing to think about is what would this look like in five years. The raised garden beds substrate will break down and will need to be filled every few years. The landscape fabric will have degraded and you'll have weeds coming up through the brick. The bricks already seem to be coming apart. Also you have very little flexibility without re-landscaping the whole thing.
lol missed the whole tree thing
Sorry to be that guy with the traditional permaculture answer of "that depends," but... that depends.
Rows exist for reasons. With olives, that would primarily be ease of wheeled access for harvest, etc. If you have a big grove and will be using mechanized equipment or even wheeled carts for harvest, rows might be the way to go. But if that's not a consideration, you might have a whole range of options: planting on contour for water retention/drainage reasons, for example, or in a grid of equilateral triangles to maximize planted space. But it would really depend on a whole host of other potential design factors.