I'm thinking UK here, but US and other places too
Do you think Politicians ever stop and think "Oh. Wow, I'm contributing to the demise and collapse of society"?
Yes. and I've encountered the theory that it's actually the honest "true believers" who are the most dangerous. Corrupt politicians want to keep society going while they skim a bit off the top. Fanatics will burn down everything for what they think is right.
Also greed is predictable and can reasoned/made deal with. With fanatics all of the is off the table.
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth.
- C.S. Lewis
C.S. Lewis was an extremely conservative Christian who had one of his main female characters not get into the afterlife because she had become too obsessed with make up. No doubt the "moral busybodies" he was talking about were the Labour politicians setting up the British welfare state.
You can make good observations but have dogshit opinions.
I think "stop treating people like they are only the worst thing they've done or said" is a good lesson for society to learn.
Susan didn’t get into the afterlife because she wasn’t dead yet. She wasn’t on the train that crashed. Some of the characters criticized here interest in makeup, but the narrator didn’t, and C.S. Lewis himself said that she was meant to represent his own departure from and later rediscovery of his own faith.
I heartily encourage you to read the Space Trilogy before asserting that Lewis was a moralistic prude. C.S. Lewis fucked.
This is from an essay he wrote against what was then known as the humanitarian theory of criminal punsihment, or what we would recognize today as reformative justice or rehabilitation.
In it, Lewis argues that the criminal justice system should only be used for the punishment of those convicted and that punishment should not be thought of as a deterrent or an attempt at reforming the prisoner, but simply because that is what the criminal deserves. In his view, a prisoner being rehabilitated "is deprived of the rights of a human being" because the criminal justice system is trying to change who they are. He goes on to reason that connecting crime to pathology and and treating it as such leaves room for a state to treat any pathology as criminal, and that state could label anything it dislikes as a disease that needs to be cured.
The "omnipotent moral busybodies" Lewis is referring to in this quote is this imagine state. He's railing against the thought police coming to arrest him for being a Christian, all because there was a movement to treat prisoners as humans who need help rather than defectives who deserve punishment for their actions.
"Convictions are more dangerous foes to the truth than lies." --Friedrich Nietzsche
My spouse's family is like this. They are hard line conservatives that believe they are doing the best for the most people possible (never mind that best is discrimination and allowing parents to hate lgbtq kids) only talk to her mother still and even then... she's one of the "true believers". Her father on the other hand would gladly kill us for the fun of it if he was given the chance. I fear for a world where our rights (both F) aren't protected.
I saw this thread and the only two thoughts in my head were "everyone is the hero of their own story" and "the road to hell is paved with good intentions".
I think there is a lot of "I'm no worse than the next person" as well.
"It's not a lie, if you believe it."
Vote Costanza 2024
Strangely I think George W. Had that thought towards the end of his time and I think often thinks about it.
In the runup to the D-Day landing, Eisenhower had drafted an address in case the landing was a failure. He was ready to take full responsibility and fall on his sword immediately.
Imagine any politician taking that level of accountability now.
Well, he wasn’t a yet a politician
I think the vast majority of politicians are sociopath-level narcissists whose only concern is having/staying in power. It almost takes that sort of personality to be successful in it.
I think there is a very small percentage of those who are in it to “do good” (as they see it).
The rest are in the former category. They just do and say whatever they need to do or say to stay in power.
And.. That’s why we have a bunch of 80-90 year olds in office. They just won’t quit. Feinstein died serving out her term, FFS.
Yup
i think it's more like "oh wow, i love my life, i don't actually need to have a productive job. i just have to keep getting elected."
can't say i'm not a little jealous.
besides, no side thinks it's in the wrong. both sides think they're saving the world. no matter what they stand for or who suffers, they all think they're on the right side of history.
"Every man who wages war believes God is on his side. I'll warrant God should often wonder who's on HIS." - Cromwell (1970)
There are politicians who think they are non-biological beings sent from god.
Modi
Yes and he is running for president
Yeah hes the ONLY one. Yes Trump is shit. But jeez they all are and until that is common knowledge, THEY still run shit, including HIM.
Damn bro, India?
Macedonia and India.
Alexander the great and Modi, the 'getting more white' .
Even Scummo thought he was sent by 'god'. What a massive peanut he turned out to be.
Best part time job in the country.
People claim God is on their side because God is mostly silent and so not going to contradict you -- therefore it is worth a shot for the punters.
Every politician has to say they think they are saving the world. What politician could openly say "Fuck the lot of you -- I've got mine! I'm working against society muahahaha!"
Politicians act in their own interests and it is in their interests to pretend they are honestly trying to do good while filling their boots. This is the same behaviour as corporations who promise the public they are doing things like recycling and reducing abuses in supply chains while the whole thing is just buying time for them to keep filling their boots.
My aunt said this once after trying to use a loophole in a testament to claim some land intended to someone else, she had gotten twice the land already: "I consulted with God and he hasn't said anything so it means I'm not doing anything wrong".
"What politician could openly say "Fuck the lot of you -- I've got mine!"
Literally Donald Trumps catch phrase. Hes openly said he doesnt care about the people voting for him, just their votes and the morons cheered.
Ha ha maybe kind of. Trump does defo wear his disdain quite openly. I think we can agree he's a bit of an exception though. He gets away with stuff that most wouldn't. All that said, I don't think Democrat disdain for their own voters is hidden that deep either. But they do put some work into the pantomime that they really care.
Add to this a side of narcissism and psychopathy and you have a large portion of today's leaders. They want to keep living their rockstar lifestyles and can use mental gymnastics to brush off their daily evil and negligence.
The real people who should be leading humanity and could do some actual good don't want the job (I can't blame them). So unless you force them into it unwillingly through some public process you end up with what we have: Leaders focusing on the wrong things, mismanaging money, corruption, lies, active sabotage, etc. etc., it goes on.
"work hard for your money and you could be rich!!!" Buys 3 houses with bank loans, pays the cheapest Mexican crew they can find to do shotty work, Then proceeds to rent them out for $2500 each and says "I'm working so hard!!!"
That's shoddy work. I know, because politicians in Canada are also slum lords.
Slum lords, and investors, and shareholders, and and and everywhere
I really think you should specify which Cromwell you mean. Because the one that came to mind for me was Oliver.
Correct. Cromwell (1970) means the movie. I was thrown off too thinking Cromwell 1599-1658.
I think the year near the name says it all.
Yeah obviously, so I have no idea who's this other Cromwell honestly.
Cromwell (1970) is from the movie
I refuse to believe no side thinks it's in the wrong when there's so much evidence that they're decisions are harming the people of the country and the planet.
At best they think "I'm but a drop in an ocean". That way they could sleep at night. And then there's others that probably think " If I don't take this money, next person in line will and still do these things, so why not get rich while I'm here?".
Scums, most of em. All we need to do is see what they voted on while in positions of government.
The career politicians we’re talking about genuinely do see what they do as work though, and honestly most of them put in more hours than the average person. It just doesn’t look like traditional work.
I honestly don't know. The true zealots certainly don't think that. The ones that honestly believe they are fighting the good fight against gays/feminists/abortion/etc, but I'm starting to doubt how many of those actually exist. They switch targets and causes so frequently that there almost can't be a true moral core. Someone like trump is too much of a pathologically narcissist to ever care about existence outside of himself but can there really be that many of those out there?
I have wondered about the truly mercenary ones though. McConnel for instance. I have to wonder what goes through his mind as he brushes his teeth before bed and is forced to just stand there and view himself, to think about his day, his career, his "accomplishments." I can't imagine it's a proud moment but I can't imagine anyone championing the causes he has either so maybe I'll just never get it.
Mitch McConnell, along with virtually every other senior US politician, sees his sole purpose as preserving the status quo and American hegemony. For 70 years, the US has been the world’s enforcer. Their only goal is economic growth.
I think McConnell must be full of himself and absolutely convinced, without any doubt, that he is correct, just, right, and so on. There is no other way one could hold on for so long without absolute conviction.
I am strictly speaking about the US... No because they're politicians and are not "like us" aka the working class. They have literal immunities that protect them from crimes we regular folks can go to jail for but they can't. As long as their pockets are getting filled by their "charitable donations, charitable dinners, lobbying aka fancy word for bribery", committing Insider trading, or by having their pockets filled with cash by corporations or even foreign entities. They will literally fund genocide, destroy our nation, and go against the working class, the same people they swore to represent, as long as that check clears.
Only if they stop making money from it.
The end of the world is so much more bearable if you're sitting on a yacht in the Bahamas and thinking that youll already be dead by the time it all goes tits up
This is it basically. Those at the top know the world will go to shit but they think they'll be insulated from it so they continue being who they are.
Yes, they definitely think about this. They are not blind to the harm they do. Actually they will have a better view than us of the harm but are gambling on dodging the worst of it because of their privileged position.
They are in a different class to most people, in terms of wealth and power. People in the ruling class do not typically identify with the majority, workers, non-owners, etc. You know the story of how the mafia will have you kill somebody in cold blood before you're a trusted footsoldier? Same thing. People in the upper echelons have so much blood on their hands by the time they get there that they are completely over it. You look like ants from up there. Politicians who get near the top and still care are pruned out (see: Jeremy Corbyn).
A big obvious example for me is that many governments continue to push austerity economics (the starving of the public sector) despite knowing, despite it being confirmed many times over, that when the public feel the pinch they embrace far-right politics. (A famous example of this is Italy and Germany going fascist 100 years ago in response to doldrum economies after losses in the First World War.) We have had fifteen years of austerity in the West now and the far right is rising. Do newspapers and politicians own up to what is going on? NO. They pretend they are MYSTIFIED. What the heck is going on here? they ask. What is wrong with people? They mock us.
The Upfronts (a big deal in the entertainment world, basically where studios and now streamers pitch to advertisers based on their upcoming program lineups) offered a wonderful quote that sums this up entirely. They want to re-introduce mid-movie ads to films. The quote runs "Will audiences like it? No. But they will just have to accept it anyway."
This is the mentality of those with real, tangible power. We are "human assets" and "human capital" to generate their next billion, not HUMANS. And they don't like it when the cattle get uppity, either.
This is actually why we really, really, need to stop lumping "the plumber/doctor next door who made a few mill" into conversations about the ultra rich. They are inevitably used to derail the conversation from what really matters by trying to position those folks as the "rich" under discourse that the "lazy poors" want to undo.
The people saying "eat the rich" aren't coming for the local businessman done well. They want justice from the people sitting on more than a small nation's GDP telling the poor to drop dead if it means 3c saved on their stock portfolio. The people who literally can never be satiated on the wealth they have, no matter how many zeros after it there may be.
And ANYONE who deludes themselves that the people with that type of wealth and power even recognize the mildly rich, let alone the un-rich and the poor, as HUMANS and not just another set of tools to do what they want to prop up that wealth and power, is delulu indeed. It's literally a completely different mindset, where "the people" means "people like me, billionaires", and that alone.
Well said!
I agree with a lot of what you say here, and your opening example is a good one.
But I want to split a hair with you over income brackets and what it means -- the income is less relevant than the role a person plays in the economy. In theory, a doctor or plumber "getting by" in an unbalanced economy to the extent that they wangle their way to being millionaires, is unlikely to be among the Masters of the Universe. They could even manage it 'solo', just by picking up a salary. You can get quite rich these days while remaining an employee.
But capitalism is wrong because it rests on exploitation, not because it allows millionaires and billionaires to exist. Anybody with dreams of getting rich on the work of others is a problem. Only those who reject such things can truly be trusted.
Anybody who is happy to relinquish their means of exploiting others is a comrade. The problem with even a "self made" millionaire--who, let us imagine, required no exploitation to make their fortune--is that they are unlikely to feel their interests diverge from the coordinators of mass exploitation some way above them. Have they met the limit of their greed? Impossible to say. Best to remove the temptation.
What this means for me is that even anti-billionaire discourse is a distraction. The personalities are irrelevant. The mechanisms available to them are the problem.
Oh, you don't know how very, very much I agree with ALL of that. All of it! Again and louder at the back!
That last bit was more a "work with what we have" statement. I.e, I'm sick of billionaires pretending they are at the level of the "working millionaire", with all the usual bootstrap, hard work, you're just jealous, lazy poors, they did it by working built-in discourse to distract from "But why are people starving while you have 6 yachts and 4 mansions" question.
But intrinsically? Yes, please, let's burn late stage capitalism to the freaking ground. Earlier models kinda worked, with checks and balances in place. Only kinda, and there's got to be better ways, but still. Work harder, more rewards, but basic needs covered and no one starves/dies of preventable disease because of money" can pass as an "evolved-ish" system. But this toxic "companies are people, people are things" grotesque wealth hoarding needs to just be yeeted.
Yes, they definitely think about this. They are not blind to the harm they do. Actually they will have a better view than us of the harm but are gambling on dodging the worst of it because of their privileged position.
What they fear most is being treated the way they treat us.
Maybe, but there's prob enough photos of them molesting animals or children, taking drugs, or any other manner of unsavoury things they're afraid of getting out
Blackmail's a helluva drug
Based on what might happen with Trump right now, it's looking more and more likely that a lot of people just don't give a fuck.
And it's so deeply terrifying.
They might genuinely think they contribute to saving society, or at least doing best of the effort in that direction.
Also, politicians are not "Politicians", i.e. they are not demi-gods with super-powers, they are just individuals, doing a particular job and primarily think in their narrow/outright environment. Go to a meeting, write notes, speak to a person a, think of the project b, eat a good lunch, have an argument with a wife over some bullshit. There is no strategy and broader vision in it, just daily routine work.
No. A very smart writer once said that evil is a false picture of the good. So if you're on the left, sorry to say, politicians on the right aren't willfully pursuing the demise and collapse of society (even if they're wrong and may in fact lead us to our ruin) - instead they're pursuing what they think is the good (even if as you think it's a false picture of the good). And if you're on the right, sorry to say, politicians on the left aren't willfully pursuing the demise and collapse of society (even if they're wrong and may in fact lead us to our ruin) - instead they're pursuing what they think is the good (even if as you think it's a false picture of the good).
To accept this would be such an enormous step back from the cliff, but I think many people like the cliff.
There are some people who are actively pursuing the fall of society, because they think their metaphorical paradise will arise from the ashes. I doubt any of them are federal politicians, though.
It's not like everyone has good intentions. Maybe they're not deliberately trying to destroy the world, but a lot of politicians are focused on building their career or enriching themselves and their allies over actually serving their constituents.
I assume that at some level they regard even those things as "goods," though not things they would articulate to constituents as goods. So yeah, a congressman with $90,000 stashed away in his freezer is enriching himself, but he no doubt sees wealth as a good thing, and he likely thinks it harms no one that he's taking cash. Same with a politician who passes a new regulation that benefits one of his donors. But that isn't quite what I was talking about. I was assuming that OP meant that specific, public policies that certain politicians pursue might seem like they would lead to society's collapse even to those who pursue them. So like someone who de-regulates industry would be thinking, "I know this will lead to catastrophic climate change and destroy society, but that's fine with me," or someone who advocates for not putting any restrictions on internet porn access would be thinking, "I know kids watching hard core porn all day will destroy their ability to connect to other people, but that doesn't bother me." I think it's more reasonable - and certainly more civil - to assume everyone wants a better society but they just disagree on what that would look like or how to get there.
They don't care. They are making sure that they and their families will be rich, comfortable and protected from anyone else. As long as something is in it for them they don't care on how many inferior people they must stomp.
About as much as anyone with a high-paying job ever worries that it's bad for society.
Nobody gives a shit what happens to society if they're being paid very well to help it happen. Sure, some people have principles and a conscience, but they aren't the kind of people who get those kinds of jobs in the first place.
As someone who's talked to a wide variety of MPs and who is friends with policy advisors on both sides of the house.
No.
Most MPs get on and have a lot more in common than you might suspect from seeing campaigning on TV - most of them agree people are working with the best intentions.
Look at what politicians do and not what they say. Of course they present every social crime as a whoopsie which happened despite their best intentions
Most MPs ... have a lot more in common
This is true. They share an interest. It is not ours.
social crime
Serious government involves trade offs and an acceptance than perfect delivery of policy is never going to happen. It's immature to imagine otherwise.
I suspect the OP of this post might be like 18... Their take is exactly that of someone who hasn't seen deeply enough into worlds like politics.
You are overestimating them.
Thank God you think that. I'm genuinely concerned they are knowingly and unknowingly working towards creating a future not worth being part of for large swathes of people
If they had that level of self awareness and empathy they wouldn't have started to begin with
Only speaking for the US here but no. I believe that most if not all politicians are attempting to do the right thing, or at the very least what they believe to be the lesser of 2 evils. I also think 99% are so out of touch with reality that they don’t know what the right thing is for the majority of the population.
Politicians don't have opinions of their own. They can't afford to, really.
They are leaves in the wind. In the face of a billionaire, that's a hurricane for them. A kerfuffle about some gaffe is a tornado or a dust devil.
I watched an athlete I know from the area get into politics, and you could see how she shifted from being someone with definite opinions to someone who spoke shallowly and with the most tact, breezing over all things. Always saying some kind of semi-meaningful Barnum Statement that most people could think spoke to them.
Over time, it was hard to see her as the same Olympic medalist who had done so many good things for so long and she instead seemed like an empty shell, barely navigating in the winds around her.
I liked the Netflix series called Borgen as it shows someone with definite opinions and a very good approach to her profession gradually descend into someone craven before power and the endless breeze and pressure of the wind of money, big oil, and the media.
If they allowed their brains to think critically about themselves, they’d immediately go insane
I think most of them don't care
Like any proper villain they think that they are doing good.
No. Politicians do not care about the people. The only thing they care about is money from lobbyists.
Yep. why would they care? They are well paid, they live far away from regular people problems. They dont have problems with housing, student debt, migration & safety. it also doesnt impact them when food gets more expensive.
That would require them to stop talking long enough to hear themselves think.
And tweeting, too.
But all bitter witticisms aside, I imagine that they believe that siding with the factions that can make them the most money will buy them protection from logical consequences: they aren't going to live in neighbourhoods they polluted or flooded or neglected, for example, but in affluent areas isolated from disasters.
Depends on who they are some politicians genuinely believe they are acting in the best interest of the people even when they obviously aren't others know what they are doing is harmful but prioritise self interest regardless.
Additionally what is correct to one person will be completely wrong to another no politician or party can appeal to everyone and no matter what actions are taken someone will be unhappy.
Yes, all the while giggling
No. They do not. They are self absorbed greedy clowns who will stop at nothing to further their own political careers.
I have no faith in any of them.
However, I still participate in the electoral process. Why? I have no fucking idea.
Here's their thought process spelled out very clearly for you:
"Fuck you I got mine!"
I feel like even if you go into politics with good intentions, you eventually become corrupt like all the others.
Yes, and they love every second of it.
Then their next thought is " I'd better get as much as I can before it's all gone."
They are too busy lining their pockets.
Of course not - they just think about how they can get more money and power.
Trump does it every day during his morning jack off session.
Hahahahahaha! Hahahahahahahaha!
No, they think they’re on the right side and the opponent is on the wrong side. Just like most people.
No most are narcissists who want power and believe what they are doing is for good and don't care about the general people only have to see what is happening around the world with so many people being murdered by wars or other things to see that the Goverments only view civilians as there toys sorry for the rant
They aren't part of "our" society. They're all rich enough to have vacation and penthouses all over the world. Of America collapses, they'll get word before it happens, dump all their stocks, cash out and transfer their money to whatever else is valuable and move.
Everyone thinks they are doing the right thing. We are very very good at rationalizing.
There's a quote from Genghis Khan after the conquest of the Khwarizmi Empire (?). This is the piles of skulls thing. Absolutely terrifying massacres.
"I am the punishment of God…If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you."
They don't care. They're doing whatever their party and their major donors tell them.
90% of them wouldnt waste their piss on you if you were on fire.
They don't care. They want to shape the world into their narrow, bigoted view of things.
Yes. Followed by hysterical laughter. Then followed by malaise. This is Amehrica
You can ask the same question of news organizations and social media moguls. They all contribute to the mess we’re in.
Also, why was our UK election on the 4th of July, American independence day? Are they playing 4d chess here, and am I playing into that plan by posting about our UK politics on 4th July?
They probably do, but then they remember their job security depends on being good at pretending otherwise
Yes they do. And they have to get off on it. There’s that saying “the cruelty is the point”.
Yes, they then think "I love being the worst"
well some actively want to do that, just with societies of their perceived enemies. this is literally a part of KGB-FSB playbook, for instance
I don't think the vast majority of them care.
I am sure they don’t when they check their bank balance and all the money and contracts they get under the radar
It’s mostly likely “oh wow, which book deal, speaking engagement, board position or any other “legal” kickback can I get next.”
Then it’s “how can I keep filling these idiots in to reelection without ever helping them?”
Followed by “I can’t believe they actually think our parties are so divided when we really just use other guys to scare you in to voting for me.”
I once read an article about the Chinese royal court when they still had an emperor. Since you had to be an eunuch to become an advisor in the inner court there were actually a lot of adolescent Chinese boys who voluntarily let others cut of their balls so they would've a chance to become eunuch. Less than 5 % of those who did actually achieved their goal and like 20-30 % died by bleeding out. So having access to power is a hell of a drug which is highly attractive for a minority of people. And being a politician who is interviewed and interpreted every day by media is probably even more attractive than being an eunuch in China. So imagine politicians as heroin-addicts, only that their drug is power (which is even worse than heroin). Don't expect self-consciousness from addicts
Politicians realize that they contribute to the decay of society. But then they look at their bank account and they brush it off.
Politicians are really in the business of amassing personal wealth (like nearly everyone is tbh). Some have a second agenda of advancing a political ideology such as: socialism, fascism, etc. Unfortunately, (and this is sadly almost universally true for all people): in the end they don't really care if problems are solved; they consider it a win if the problem no longer affects them.
They parade around on the grand stage of politics, meticulously crafting their characters for the public eye. But behind the curtain, the story is different it's a calculated game of chess where we, the pawns, are maneuvered for their gain. Do you think they lose sleep over the consequences of their actions?To them, it's a necessary sacrifice for the greater good they've convinced themselves they're championing.
When I was growing up we had almost 20% unemployment, infrastructure was horrendous, cars were rust buckets. Flash forward and my country is now one of the top 10 or 20 countries in the world by many metrics.
Every person I know complains about politicians, because that's the done thing. We imply that most or all of them are corrupt. We imply they are all inept. We imply the majority are lazy, etc.
Yet the country made immense progress and that didn't happen by "magic". Our jobs programs worked, our infrastructure plans worked, our economic ideas worked.
There's no way around it, politicians enabled that. Yes there are terrible politicians, but conversely there are those who get stuff done. Who are passionate about what they do. The terrible politicians are unlikely to care about their actions, and the decent or hardworking politicians seem to genuinely care. All of them rely on performing for their constituents and representing their needs or they don't have a job.
No. Greed is their only motivation. The desire for more power and more money is paramount to everything else.
Yup, and they wipe their tears away with stacks of money
Many think everyone else is destroying society and they are the ones trying to save it
Or sure, they do this just about as often as bad citizens do.
No, they suspect everyone else thinks that though. Way to stumble onto Hanlon's razor.
“But….money!”
I'm sure there have been many over the hundreds of years, but the villain is always the hero of his story
If they had that kind of self-awareness, they wouldn't be politicians.
Unless they're a sociopath, in which case they won't care.
A very small percentage and those that do shove it deep down and keep doing what they're doing.
No. How much money can I make.
They don’t see it that way. And truthfully, I believe it to be more complicated than that.
Nope. They got theirs.
No. They gettin theres yo!
No because they are like I’m getting paid and what’s even more upset is they are being bought for pennies on the dollar. Billionaires are buy are government for nothing.
In my experience, they all seem to think they are gods gift to the world. Money makes them delusional.
Most of them only think about themselves and getting re-elected back into office.
Sure…. But then they think… hmmm… millions of dollars and I stay in power? Oh well. Someone else can fix it.
No
I think they're more likely to stop and think "BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH, I'M CONTRIBUTING TO THE DEMISE AND COLLAPSE OF SOCIETY!!!"
Not a chance. All they care about is filling their pockets with money. It isn't a civil service anymore. It's a corrupt system fueled my greed and narcissism.
I think they think “it’s over. The arms race vs resources, we’ll need every one of them working every minute of their lives to keep it all going. We can still insider trade and start biotech companies, and probably keep most of the houses and some of the cars while continuing to grow our portfolio, but we have to skim from our given organizational budgets, reroute, clandestinely sell used equipment, and create disenfranchised employees, so much so that they’re fighting for their lives everyday, and too busy to do anything about it.” I think it has so transcended anything we can speak to with less than half of the actual information we’d need to form an intuitive opinion, that they aren’t even playing the same game anymore.
JFK saying “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country” has been brought into focus again
Nobody thinks about society on their yachts while talking about it Christian values out one end. Come on now…
And when the next guys yacht has an extra special RGB light on it, they need a scapegoat to blame because they don’t have it on their yacht so they can avoid responsibility.
He’ll no. Politicians are fully corrupt and think only on how to steal money from the taxpayer and enrich themselves.
politicians are actors pretending to help their constituents when really they just line their own pockets.
Not when they are looking at their pay checks and paper bags of cash form kickbacks
Honestly I think most US ones at least have hypoxia from all the money and foreign interest dicks stuffed into them. So no, they're only trying not to laugh and then choke while they take everything they can instead of fixing anything.
They'll be fine we're screwed.
We have a saying in Italy: "the worse, the better", about politicians who deliberately make things worse to gain from the chaos right now knowing that they will not be around anymore when the shit finally hit the fan.
Most people don’t do that much introspection. It’s always assumed to be someone else’s fault. Just spend some time here on Reddit. No one on this entire website is greedy. The only people that are greedy are people that have more than they do.
So, if you want to an actual answer, instead of jokes and low hanging fruit, I actually have a first hand experience. My mom's boyfriend (together for like 5 years) is a leading member of one of my country's big political parties. He is actually very passionate about politics but he's also insanly self important and you can see he thinks all his opinions are the right opinions to have. He's a smart guy, knows a lot about whole plethora of things but I hate when I'm visiting them and politics comes up because I'm pretty much on opposite side of the spectrum. I rarely ever agree with his POV on social issues. Trough him I've also come in contact with other people involved in politics and got very similar vibes from them.
To answer you, most of them actually think they are doing a good think. Certainly not "contributing to the demise of society."
No as long as their pockets are lined with cash. They dgaf in my opinion.
Nope.
Think about your view on society. Imagine what what you would do if you had infinite political power. How you would change the world and use those powers.
Now picture yourself with those powers but mostly only surrounded by people who have the same beliefs as you. You would think you were always doing the right thing.
No matter which side you are on, all politicians think they are doing the right thing. Maybe a lot of them are only doing the right thing for their family, ego, wallet, church, etc... but it's the right thing for them.
I will quote the hitchhikers guide "The major problem—one of the major problems, for there are several—one of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. To summarize the summary: anyone who is capable of getting themselves [elected as a political official] should on no account be allowed to do the job."
Yes, but then they figure out how to benefit from it and what it can get them now
It’s not just politicians. We all are.
Fuck you, peon, I'm doing it for me and my friends!
Not majority, but will be more like what I can do to ensure I have enough connections after I finish my political life career? I will award contracts to firms and people I wanna work for or with while I'm in power.
While at parliament, how do I set myself up for 2nd or 3rd jobs where I will use my political influence and connections and charge enormous day rate (Matt Hancock quoted 10k a day).
Just have look at George Osborne and David Cameron and compare with my observations above.
Nope
Thieves always rationalize their existence, they say "If people weren't so stupid they wouldn't fall for my easy shit. I am educating people about the world, and life!"
Nah - as long as sweet $$$ are there most of them don't. See Supreme Court.
Nope. They always say it’s those people over there.
Nope, just I am making money, I have power, screw the rest of you!
No, because they just bought another boat.
they are fully conscious of the fact that they are
they are well compensated to keep society on this track, by their private donors and sponsors
barely a handful of them are genuine public servants, trying to help people
If the get those feelings then their handlers from Russia or the Oil Industry just slap them in the face with a band of hundreds and the feeling pass
No-one is the bad guy in the story they tell themselves about their lives.
So no, I don’t think ANYONE thinks “oh, wow; I’m contributing to the demise and collapse of society.” Even the extremists (and I’m speaking in general, not politicians in particular) who talk about ‘tearing it all down’ seem to only be talking about destroying those aspects of society or culture they see as “repressive”.
Whether or not they’re right is a different matter.
That’s the actual goal of the gop right now so probably. It’s why they have been making so many odd choices. Their plan is to have a “post constitution” state/country and enact a christofascist one in its place where the (republican only) president and government are given by God to create the end times which they think will bring Jesus back. The plan is to Capture seven social orders (aka seven mountain mandate). It sounds nuts it is nuts but it’s actual fact. (Look up new apostolic reformation or go look at my past comments. Trumps spiritual advisor is Paula White- a solid proponent of NARs. Many gop are as well. )
The overall plan is called project 2025 and the latest Supreme Court ruling about chevron gave their plan a solid kick forward. Chevron dismantles settled law of the power of federal agencies and more. This law neuters the power of a lot of executive government and empowers the Supreme Court above the previously constitutional mandated co-equal branches of government. So they already broke the constitution. But that’s not at all the entire plan.
Oh they do. My mum hung out with an ex prime minister of my country. He was so regretful and remorseful for a decision he made where he privatised a utility company that was previously public. Never stopped beating himself up about it. He did a lot of good stuff though in his time!
Almost as often as thinking when ur eating "oh an animal died for this good shit"
It might cross their mind once but then go back to snorting cocaine off the back of a rent boy.
No. You think politicians care? They only care about keeping their positions and wield power. They dont care about anyone so they dont care if they are contributing anything for that matter.
Wish they would but no. They think, Money-power and that's it.
They think they are saving society by acting in their self interest. Like some sort of self declared god who can do no wrong. Mental institution qualifying stuff.
yes, they do but it’s usually when the damage is already done and they reflect during their twilight years with regrets..
Some are genuinely monomaniacal freaks who don’t care and are just in it for the power.
Others understand full well they are doing some bad things but see it as a necessary evil to stay in power and prevent worse things from happening — maybe they are wrong (often they are) but there’s a genuine belief there that they are a savior making hard calls on behalf of the rest of us.
Others are, or were, good and idealistic people who simple remain stuck within a broken system and rarely get an opportunity to step outside it.
In the US most politicians are boomers.. so not a chance they are thinking about anyone but themselves.
Yes but they enjoy doing it, they're not human, they're psychopaths and it's possible an extradimensional creature not bound to the laws of physics has been influencing the world for thousands of years, it has manipulated both sides, it enters the minds and dreams of political and corporate leaders and they worship it. It ordered to construct the pryamids, it made christainity a mainstream religion, It led to the rise of capitalism. It helped Napoleon. It ordered Marx to write the communist manifesto and das kapital. It supported the russian revolution. It helped the Nazis come to power. It led to the rise of Reagan and now Trump. It's controlling everything behind the scenes and is waiting to be released from tbe dreamscape and bring the new dark age. The elites worship this thing and are possibly a lower form of the order of this alien species.
Having worked in DC and meeting such people…you wonder what was in that kool aid when they were jr aides or jr lawyers at the beginning of their careers.
Then I met a few CEOs that are very good friends with those politicians. Most of these folks were raised in a very posh life and when youre used to that you no longer realize anyone outside your circle.
On the other hand, since the conception of more accessible social media, those politicians have found more ways to keep the public at ends with one another with a flick of an ad or story line and as we become more dependent on what these politicians are doing for us, the less we question the behind the scenes.
The ol bait & switch, they started us on Coke but secretly began feeding us with Pepsi and every once in a while, theyll give us a RC Cola to really rile things up before giving us Coke Zero but saying its Coke.
No they are selfish and think how can I get more money for myself.
When there are profits to be made? Unlikely
I think humans are tribal creatures, and we care very little about people outside our circles.
So as long as politicians are benefitting themselves and their friends, the world can burn (in their minds).
I think that quite often. I'm not a politician though, just a programmer.
Oh look, my money bags! Yeah, that’s probably mostly what they think.
I think some of them think it’s good that they’re destroying society because they think they’ll replace it with something better.
I think they're either undeniably altruistic or they're absolute sociopaths obsessed with themselves and their legacies.
I think both may -- may -- make halfway decent leaders, though. History is littered with people who were so crazy they were unpredictable, or so true-believing they were unstoppable, and many of them had success.
Do you think we citizens ever stop and think "Oh. Wow, maybe the system is a lot more complicated than how I think it is"
They know if shit hits the fan they can just run to another country with the money already in their foreign accounts and enjoy their retirement.
At least the third world ones like mine do.
Everyone wants to save the world, they disagree on how
Probably not. I'd imagine there's a level of disconnect from conventional reality that comes with the wealth and power of being a politician. Plus I imagine the pay is enough to deter said thoughts
No I think they already knew before they became politicians. No one gets into politics to help people anymore. that used to be the draw of politics, but then corruption creeped its way in and became stronger and next thing you know is corporations get to legally bribe politicians to do whatever they want done. Its just all about the money and power just like everything else...
I really there's a mental threshold they pass. Beyond that threshold there's no social or moral conscience and whatever they do they believe is for the good of the country.
More likely they think “How can I profit from this?”
The politicians you're referring to believe they are safeguarding society from collapse. They view the things you prioritize as contributing factors to societal decline. If Western civilization doesn't quickly find a middle ground, we will end up destroying each other.
Some of them do it on purpose 🙃 to bring about the new world order
Lolll it's funny to even imagine that. No, they don't. They think "wow, all my fellow politicians are corrupt and making TONS of money being corrupt, I guess it's normal so I should do it too? Who can do some insider trading with? How can I pander to citizens so I can keep getting elected to keep making money?" Sadly this is the vast majority of Washington now, on any political side.
Yeah but then they look at their fat paychecks and ability to manipulate the stockmarket to make their family wealthy for generations and go ”Meh”.
Absolutely not. Because if they believed that was the effect of their policies they wouldn’t be promoting them. Hell, even Hitler believed he was doing the right thing. Of course, objectively, he was pure evil. But from his perspective he was perfectly justified, it was all necessary to achieve a better place.
Ummm because they’re not 🤷🏽♂️
Fuck you, got mine. Is the only thought in their mind.
Just about every person commenting clearly believes it is the other side's politicians who are contributing to the demise and collapse of society, and they themselves are the rational ones propping society up by voting for their own side.
It is that lack of self-awareness, the complete inability to understand that the things they themselves are voting for could, in fact, be harming society more than helping it.
The other side must be evil, because I am so pure in my motives and only those with hate in their hearts would make different decisions than me.
I am certian most of them still believe "doing the right thing", or "being the lesser evil doing the necessary things", or "doing the right things for the right people".
True sadists that enjoy inflicting pain are rare. Even the greediest sociopath wants to be the hero of their story. And we know that typically you cannot lie repeatedly without starting to think like that - i.e., believe your own lies.