My Rainier Training - give me feedback

I hate to be that guy, but it's time for that age-old question that I've seen several times while combing through this reddit: Am I ready for Rainier? I'm signed up with RMI for the 4 day climb in early July 2024. Here's what I've been doing over the past several months:

Tons of Stairmaster with and without a pack (mostly with a pack, except for rest weeks). I spend 4-5 days a week doing this. With a 45 lb. pack, my average pace is about 1700' per hour. I try to do one-hour sessions 3 or 4 days a week, with one big day where I do about 3000' feet (which takes me about 2.5 hours with a rest break).
Every few weekends I go backpacking (I live in NC). On a good weekend I'll do anywhere between 10 and 20 miles gaining around 4,000'-8,000' in elevation.
I have been lifting weights for years, but the Stairmaster sessions have somewhat taken over my strength workouts. I spend maybe a day or two per week working on core and upper body.
I have summited multiple 13ers in the past - never a 14er. Elevation has never seemed to bother me.

I have weekly elevation goals that are currently at 8500' per week and they are about to go up to 9000' per week. I have recently found this to be quite monopolizing of my time. Am I doing too much, or not enough? I feel like I could be giving my legs more rest than they currently get and possibly focus more on core and upper-body strength. I really appreciate any feedback. Thanks to everyone in this sub, I have learned a lot from this.

in Mountaineeringby Fair-Wall-316

92%

18d

Onlycommentoncfb

18d

Yeah man, you are prepared.

FishScrumptious

18d

I’m training for a Rainier summit bid in two weeks. Hiked to Muir three times in the past 12 days. You’re probably in good shape, but a couple things stand out to me to check on:

Endurance - can you do that stair master* at a slower rate of ascent (the guide companies estimate 1000’ per hour) but for five or six continuous hours with nothing more than a ten minute break every hour? You need that kind of muscular endurance.

Aerobic Base: My times up/down Muir have ranged from 8-9 hours - including lunch break and all other breaks - but the day of the climb is likely going to be more like 12-13hrs by the guide estimates, as we go from Muir to the summit and then all the way back down to Paradise in one day. That’s a lot of time on your feet, and knowing how to fuel yourself and manage your energy over that length of time it’s important, and NOT the same as 3-4 hours and being done. Long runs, and other many hour work in high Zone 1 or Zone 2 type workouts.

*Uphill Athlete recommends not using a stair master as the machine works your legs somewhat differently - a highly inclined treadmill they suggest as better, climbing stairs (like in a stadium) as better yet, but getting out to the mountains best.

Snow Travel - there is something stupidly fatiguing about snow travel. Go up in the morning when it’s icy, and you’re digging your crampons into the frozen churned “snow” by stomping into the ground a bit. In the sun, it’s sloppy wet mush that you slide down and sideways and all over.

Going downhill isn’t necessarily less work due to how sloppy the snow gets by noon. (Seriously, my three trips have been in full sun and the snow is super soft and deep. It’s melting out fast, though.)

Rest - you should be doing sufficient rest for the legs to actually build from what you’re doing. You probably don’t need more upper body strength, though core strength and hip stabilization might come in handy with the snow.

Fair-Wall-316

18d

Appreciate all this. You make some good points that have been weighing on me. For example, I have been considering the treadmill inclined as an alternative. I will definitely give it a go next week.

As far as time goes, I agree 100%. I get so damn bored on the stairs, my logic has been to knock it out as fast as I can. While I don’t have much free time during the week (one hour sessions), those 3 hour weekend days are generally my longer stretches. I’d argue that my weekend backpacking trips help a lot. I spend around 10 hours on my feet multiple days in a row backpacking. Unfortunately I’m only making out to the mountains once or twice a month if I am lucky due to weather and other factors. I live about 3-4 hours drive from the NC mountains.

Good luck on your climb in a few weeks! I would’ve preferred a June bid but they all filled up before I could reserve. I was lucky and got in on a waitlist for a July 4th bid.

delta3045

18d

Try the following: pack with 40-50 lbs. Do box steps ups for time. 16" box times 750 = 1000 vert. You grind that in sub 40min and you are in the right range

InnaJiff

18d

I second this approach. If you can, monitor your HR, trying to keep it roughly at 70% of your MHR. There is no need to blast your heart. Your mountain time will/should be mostly aerobic. I do a little over 700 step-ups per hour on a high box, with my heart rate pegged around 70%. That doesn’t make Rainier a cake walk, but it makes it a reliable summit. Box step-ups force you to step up AND down with weight, unlike a stair-mill. 1000’ of gain on a box is worth much more in the mountains. Derek Toshner, a mountain guide and StrongFirst master instructor, does most of this training in the flats of Wisconsin. He eats step-ups for breakfast and estimates that an hour of weighted step-ups are worth 2.5-3 hours of time in the mountains. Have fun on your climb! It sounds to me like you’re already well prepared.

mortalwombat-

17d

No way. I have done Rainier and can do about 30 16" box steps with a 40lb pack before failure. A proper box step is waaaaaaay more fatiguing than hiking.

FishScrumptious

18d

That’s higher than my knee!

delta3045

18d

lol. 75% of tibia length. So if you do 12", you need to do 250 more at that time range

Dpear_

18d

Agree about the downhill. If u can’t hike a lot do some step-downs and other quad burners! You’re ready tho

satellite779

18d

My times up/down Muir have ranged from 8-9 hours - including lunch break and all other breaks

Btw, one of the guide companies listed 4hrs from Paradise to Muir as a requirement when it comes to being fit enough. Not sure how much faster you go down, but I guess you're in the 6-7hrs for the up part?

FishScrumptious

18d

5-5.5hr up, 2.5 down, and 0.5-1.0 hanging around at Muir for lunch/pictures/chatting.

I actually talked to the folks from RMI who said 5 hours up (including breaks) is what they tend to aim for. So, I’ll be one of the slowest ones, but in it.

Hopefully it won’t be so ludicrously sunny the day we go up!

satellite779

18d

actually talked to the folks from RMI who said 5 hours up (including breaks) is what they tend to aim for

This gives me hope I can do Mt Rainier one day, as I managed 5 hrs up last year. With some conditioning 4hrs might be possible.

arlo-kirby

18d

The hardest part of Rainier car to car is coming down. Ugh, I was a bit out of it coming back down the cleaver. We were very safe and stable but being careful takes it out of you.

We sat in a bit of dazed relief back at Muir. But we felt great cruising back down to Pan Point and out.

Boring-Bus-3743

18d

I tried a few years ago and getting to Muir was the easy part. If you are taking the DC route when snow is melted out making my way up DC with crampons on rock killed me I had to tap out..

FishScrumptious

18d

Adding one last thing: yes, this should be taking a lot of time. You’re not going to train for a 12 hour day with 6-8 hour training weeks.

why666ofcourse

18d

Sounds pretty solid to me. Hopefully you can take some time to acclimate since you’re coming from NC. that’s the only real concern I see

Slow_Substance_5427

18d

Depending on where they are coming from in nc they could be more acclimatized then the locals.

Longjumping_Cherry32

18d

Yeah - Seattle is sea level

Training-Air5125

18d

More prepared than I was before my successful summit. I’ll say that I was not as physically prepared for the ~10k feet descent. I live close to sea level, surrounded by flat farmlands, so you got me beat there too. Don’t get in your head too much, the guide pace is somewhat leisurely. Good luck and safe travels!

end_times-8

18d

Yeah bro you’re gonna be annoyed at the other people they stick you on a rope with. Try not to let it ruin your experience and take in the sights. This is a very high level of fitness you have.

Dark_Archon_MC

18d

I’m doing Rainier in June and this is way more than I’ve been doing. I train with 40 pounds and started with stair master but switched to outdoor hikes because I got bored. My biggest question mark is my pace. 1k feet per hour is hard for me.

coppertop217

18d

I was doing an incline treadmill at it's max setting(10%) with a 35 pound pack and I was A-okay when I did Rainier. None of my sessions were more than 1-2 hours and my pace was anywhere from 2.5mph(I think this made the 1000 feet/hour) to 4.5 mph. I'm in metro Detroit so elevation is non existent here. When you're with the guides the climbing is sloowwwwww and elevation will be the biggest thing.

Munchies70

18d

It heavily depends on the distance at which you're gaining that elevation. The hike to Muir averages roughly 1000' per mile, so If you're training somewhere not as steep it may take you longer just due to increased distance.

arlo-kirby

18d

Just stick with the person in front of you. The pace is solid but not blazing. When I did my first rainier summit with a guide I don’t remember the pace being an issue. I remember wishing I had hydrated better. And brought better snacks. And taken better care of my feet. And had a better headlamp.

For normal guided climbs the weight only goes to Muir or the flats. After that the pack is a non-issue.

whitnasty89

18d

You'll be fine.. I've climbed it with much less preparation in the past. Also from NC.

lil_bird666

18d

Here is a training presentation I helped create for students of a course. The graduation climb is different routes on Rainier so highly recommend you dig into it. The biggest change you need to make is LONGER training sessions. Its much easier to crush distance/elevation quickly then a slow all day slog for most. Backwards plan your longest day and build up to that (expect 10+ hour day(s) depending on group)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10OcqkuqFe0FmV1sGa60m2XjxdO-qrm8t/view?usp=sharing

Little_Mountain73

18d

This looks to be an extensive, coordinated, and well thought out training guide for specific expeditions. A couple of questions for you:

how realistic is this for every person who does Ranier?

It definitely looks to address all the key aspects of training, but many mountaineers can’t run…myself included. I’ve trained for many hikes and climbs without such a detailed, analytical plan. Having a plan is indeed important, but I would have liked to see something more general in nature that achieves the same goals but through either a choice of specific exercises or as generalities.

I have no doubt that this is both a credible resource and one that has proven to lead to a successful expedition. That said, there are multiple parts in this that need more details. My assumption is that you discussed each aspect during the class, as most presentations are merely the high points to details. Essentially, this is a skeleton, right?

Thanks for sharing this.

lil_bird666

18d

It is a condensed summary of Training for the New Alpinism, a well know training manual for mountaineers and alpinists. The same methodology applies to anyone training for any type of endurance event; bike race, marathon, expedition, etc. It’s all based on aerobic base and building up to the event and the events specifics (distance, elevation, weight, day length)

The book goes into more detail and Uphill Athlete sells training plans for different goals if someone didn’t want to tailor their own. For those who can’t or don’t want to run you do hikes/walks with weight slowly building to your planned pack weight while still getting your zone 2 HR.

For a goal like Ranier or other PNW climbs it’s a better method than following a premade plan since everyone is at a different starting point. Being in Colorado many active climbers need very little training and more so need to focus on not overtraining. All my climbs have been 2 days fast and light so my plan would be different than someone guided or planning 4 days with heavier gear.

Little_Mountain73

18d

That’s great, man. Thanks for the info. It certainly looks like a well-put-together class. While I am highly analytical, I am also an auditory/visual learner, so unless there are detailed sections in a reading format, the full class setting would always be of greater benefit. In other words…taking the class from you would undoubtedly be the most beneficial for me, personally.

What kind of research was done to arrive at the given percentages, especially as a variant of time? Did you do original research or was this culled from existing sources? I will assume the latter, based on your comment re: the Training For the New Alpinism book. I am interested in digging in to this further. My curiosity about the studied variables is what gets me. Specifically, metabolism (which isn’t a system, but varies greatly between people), the endocrine, immune, and lymphatic systems, and body mass. I was pleased to see the discussion of the lymphatic acid system as well as the lymphatic threshold (and improvements therein), as they are such big, but often overlooked pieces of any training regimen. Similarly- but I don’t recall seeing mentioned- would be the glycolytic energy system. We all know the basic systems that affect energy and improvement through training (eg respiratory, nervous, etc). And while everybody has different “levels” and metrics within these larger systems, the smaller process drivers (as I mentioned above) are where we see major bifurcations from person to person. That’s why I mentioned the individualized plan over a generalized plan. The summary you provided is excellent as kind of a personal “KPI” sheet, but how each individual achieves those goals could vary significantly. Or am I off base here?

I will check out that book, for sure. It’s been a number of years since I did major climbs or long thru-hikes, but I’m preparing for two major surgeries in the next 4-6 months (the first being this Monday, 5/20), with an extended rest period following the second surgery. Ultimately it will be close to a year before I’m able to get myself back in climbing shape, but ultimately I’d really like to do Denali. I’m in Southern California so there are some really good elevation challenges here. The Cactus to Clouds trail from Palm Springs to the summit of Mt San Jacinto, which is consistently ranked as one of the hardest hikes in the country, is in my backyard, so this gives me a built-in training ground once I’m able to get past simple hikes and intermediate treks.

Thanks again for all info. Great to learn new stuff!

lil_bird666

18d

The book is like 1 1/2” thick so hard to summarize and not be death by power point! We do a whole like 3 hour class just for training but majority of the course is crevasse travel/rescue focused. With evening classes and weekend field days roped up and practicing.

If you’re in Colorado highly recommend the Colorado Mountain Club. We offer a ton of very in depth courses for hiking/climbing/first aid. The Mountaineers is a sibling organization in Seattle that does the same too!

FishScrumptious

17d

It’s a great book. I’ve been reading it while doing stew incline on the treadmill.

Successful-Help6432

18d

Yeah man you are totally ready, a few things to keep in mind: - go with inclined treadmill, the stair master gives your calves a break, which will hit a lot harder in stiff, full shank mountaineering boots. Walking in those is very different. Not a huge deal but something to keep in mind.

Weather conditions are everything. You’re from NC, the PNW weather systems are completely wild. Many summit attempts just come down to picking the right weather window, and knowing when to press on or turn around. It looks like you’re going with a guide, so for this trip you won’t have to worry about making that call on your own. However, if you want to keep doing this stuff, really pick your guide’s brain about weather patterns and go/nogo conditions. I’ve found that many people neglect this crucial skill and focus all on other things like knots/rope systems. Don’t get me wrong, ropes systems are very important, but that stuff is easy to YouTube! The nuances of when to push and when to stop are a lot harder to capture unless you’re there in the moment.

lovesmtns

18d

WEATHER

As it gets close to the climb, keep an eye on this site. You can see the weather at four elevations on Mt Rainier.

https://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Mount-Rainier/forecasts/4392

that_guy_too

18d

Sounds about right. I would not be concerned with vertical per hour. In general you're not moving particularly quickly on Rainier, and the pace is tuned to others in the rope party. We were doing about 800-900' an hour on summit day, it's really about pacing it over the ~6 hours from high camp to the summit.

FWIW, I live at elevation (7500'), and did mostly hike / snowboard combos of 1000-1600' gains 2-3 times a week for about 6 weeks prior to the trip, so that's about 20-25 lbs being carried. Our last pre-Rainier ascent was skiing a 14er, which was a good approximation of summit day on Rainier in terms of weight carried and elevation gain, also absolute elevation.

Our group was prepared, the aerobic conditioning was not an issue.

FishScrumptious

18d

I think so much of it comes down to where you start and your general condition. Altitude can make things a LOT harder, so being able to live and play at 7.5k ft and higher makes a big difference as opposed to coming from sea level.

I find getting up Muir much harder than the similar climb from the base of the Hoh River either to High Divide or the Blue Glacier on Olympus. The stats are fairly similar in terms of ft/mi, but it’s a combination of snow being more tiring to move on and the altitudes the work is being done at.

OnionBusy6659

18d

Do you measure your HR while training? That could be an additional metric to consider. For the longest endurance, your HR should stay in the aerobic base zone.

https://uphillathlete.com/podcast/coach-scott-johnston-discusses-all-about-aerobic-base/

tkitta

16d

I usually have close to zero in aerobic and all in anaerobic. Can do it for a long time.

fmkwjr

18d

Sounds like you’re ready. You got this!

IAmGruck

17d

Just came back from Rainier with RMI. Unfortunately no summit due to conditions, but we still went up to the top of Ingraham, and I felt confident that I could have made it to the summit. Honestly I did very little training outside of my average workouts, and zero physical activity in the month leading up to the climb due to a knee injury. We made it up to Muir in 5 hours, wasn’t too difficult. All that being said, it sounds like you’re more than ready to me.

leifobson

18d

Seems like you'll be fine, but one comment. First, I'm not as much of a climber as a skier but in looking for ways to train for backcountry skiing/skimo I've found stairmaster to not be as good as it would seem. Walking or skiing up hill seems to engage different muscles and stairmaster doesn't work your downhill muscles at all. I've found running to be much better.

Low-Cartographer3550

18d

I think you will be fine. The first time I did it, my lack of cardio affected me. I’ve since added running to my training which solved my issues.

Gulfhammockfisherman

18d

You sound exactly like me when I trained for Rainer. Right down to going to the mountains in NC.

It was hard no doubt but it went well.

You never said how old you are or how much you weigh etc. To do what you are doing so far, you are taking it very seriously . I do like the rotating stairs stairmaster as opposed to the steps where you go just up and down. But it all has a purpose.

I know some guide services have different itineraries. I was with AAI and they had a high camp. I liked that but no matter what you are putting in the work.

Good luck and I’m sure you will be fine.

Epsilon714

18d

I think you're ready. My Rainier training was almost exclusively stairs. I came from a base of soccer several times a week but switched to training in the stairwell of a parking garage near my office. I'd do ~50 flights per session, either running or carrying a weighted pack, then I'd go for a jog. 3-4x per week for a few months. When the time came to climb the actual mountain I cruised up Rainier. I was mid-30s at the time.

As others have noted there are better and more representative training programs if you truly want to optimize your training, but my experience is that a lot of stairs will get you up Rainier with no fuss.

LedZappelin

18d

Rest for at least a week before your climb. Even more, then yoga to stay fresh. You’re gonna kill it

Constant-Ad-7490

18d

This sounds like substantially more training than I did last year when I successfully submitted Rainier. I'd second others' comments about the stairmaster though, and suggest mixing in real stairs, hills, or box steps as you can. It sounds like you will be extremely prepared.

Don't forget earplugs, as that bunkhouse is hard to sleep in when you're listening to the mice scrabbling right under your head.

ChivalrousRisotto

18d

More real hiking. I did stairwells as well for most of my Rainier training, but I hiked every Saturday, 8 miles 4k gain, sometimes double that.

You can't really replace the hiking.

FastpackingTurtle

18d

If you regularly do a ~20 mile weekend with ~8000' in elevation gain, that's not far off from Rainier summit via DC route. Unlikely that physical fitness would be the main thing stopping you, especially if the stairmaster workout is done without you holding the handles.

Some ideas:

Mentally prepare for cold / wind / exposure to heights. Depending on your locale, can you do a hike you are familiar with on a cold, windy day? If you are afraid of heights, can you expose yourself to some moderate class 2 scrambles to understand how you react?
Gear usage / fitting. If you have mountaineering boots, can you practice wearing them? Foot-issues can sink trips, and if they give you the option do wear trailrunners to Muir to save your feet.

sevans105

18d

You are in great shape! I've summited Rainier 3x. The two "biggies" that no one can prepare for unless they are on a mountain are Working at elevation and mountain weather.

If you are good up to 13k already, you will probably do just fine. RMI 4-day has a day of elevation at Muir to acclimate. You will probably be more frustrated with the slackers RMI ropes you to than your own physical fitness.

tkitta

16d

Dude it's Rainer not Everest. I would not even train for Reiner. My usual 3x a week 5 mile run is enough to do it in good time. Doing say 8m 3x a week plus 2 hikes per month allowed me to be the fastest or almost the fastest guy in Nepal on trekking 20,000ft mointains. Now I run about 30m a week and do 4000 to 5000 ft gain a week hike to get ready for 26000ft in Karakorum.

Interanal_Exam

18d

Are you planning to run up the mountain? Because that's what you are training for.

I think if you really want to be prepared (and physically, you already are) try this experiment:

Go lie down at 8PM. Try to sleep. Get up at midnight and go do your 3000' stairmaster thing with a pack. See how that feels. It's a mental barrier that you're going to face on the mountain. If you can prove to yourself it won't effect you, you're as ready as it gets.

When I was doing climbs in big mountain ranges, we would saddle up and drive 4 or 5 hours to the Sierra Nevada and backpack from about 10PM until sunrise just to get used to that shitty feeling of "WTF am I doing?" It helped a great deal on the real thing.

Fair-Wall-316

18d

Haha, I've actually thought about this. Sometime in June I was planning on doing a rough simulation. The plan: hike 4,500 on the stairs on a Saturday morning (at 1000'/hour pace) with the 45lbs. Then go home and eat dinner and rest. Then head to back to the gym around midnight and knock out another 4,500' with about 25lbs.

I've had many backpacking trips getting up at 2-3am hiking all the way into the following afternoon, so that's not a mental concern of mine. Nothing beats a sunrise at the summit.

FishScrumptious

18d

Train for the down as much as the up. Everyone I know who has done Rainier has said that the down was harder in many ways.

wellidontreally

18d

Wow dude, I’m climbing with RMI in late July and I haven’t even started training for it and I don’t know if I even can since summer in AZ doesn’t allow for much outdoor activity but maybe I should start walking up some stairs like you

FishScrumptious

18d

They suggest a minimum 12-16 weeks training, depending on where you start

tkitta

16d

Wow, that is more training than people do for things such as K2! Maybe it's from doing nothing to Rainer. I mean it's a 14er in US. It's not very taxing at all. Yes I did it.

FishScrumptious

16d

Perhaps you have a higher baseline level of activity than many others. Perhaps you're an athletic early-20's male who's been athletic their whole life. A lot of people are NOT that.

I wouldn't even call heading to Muir "not very taxing at all", and no one I know who's done it in person would call it that either.

I believe that's your experience, but it is not the most common experience.

tkitta

16d

I am 45. I usually run 3x a week year round unless I am training. Then I do more. I would not call trekking peak summit days very taxing in Nepal. Taxing would be things in US such as Snow creek. Or summit day on Denali. Or doing RRR in the grand canyon. I also found summit day on Aconcagua hardish but that was my 1st one. 7000ers are all taxing summit days, at least they ones I did. All 8000ers are taxing summit days or even going to camp 4, without oxygen. I did find 6000ers taxing only when doing them while having Covid. Maybe quite technical 6000ers with post holing would be very taxing.

tkitta

16d

Few more rare things in US that are taxing, telescope peak from shorty's well.

FishScrumptious

16d

Then you're a 1%er. The vast majority of people are going to call summiting even Rainier taxing. Maybe they only need a few days to recover after, but that's not saying it's not taxing.

Are you comparing Snow Creek in Yosemite (a 9.2mi RT w/ 3,000ft of gain) as being more taxing than a 13-17mi RT w/ 4400-9000ft of gain (Rainier either from Muir or car-to-car)?

Because I think your "normal" meter may be off from the experience you are describing. :)

tkitta

16d

Snow creek route is near Mt st Jacinto. Done it twice. It's biggest single day elevation change mostly on snow you can reasonably do in lower US. It's 12000 ft or so day. Maybe more I forgot, depends if you want to do it legally or not. RRR is in grand Canyon, rim to rim to rim, it's long at around 46 miles and I belive around 10k elevation change. Done it twice. My best time was 12h but I done it when some 60 year olds were running the route and doing it faster then me at almost half their age... Shorty's well to telescope peak is another 12000 or more feet day. Forgot how much exactly. You start under sea level and climb highest point in inyo range. Compared to these 3 the summit day on Rainer is not bad at all. Heck I venture doing Rainer car to car would be easier, if somehow you did not have to do whole descent.

wellidontreally

-2

18d

That’s a lot of training

[deleted]

18d

If it is 4 days and guided, they should be able to get you up there (weather permitting).