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Too many arm chair therapists self diagnosing others as a narcissist because of a conflict or disagreement
The most annoying trend online is being accused of gaslighting when I’m just trying to restate something another person wrote, to confirm if I understood correctly before replying. In those cases I can’t help but wonder if I’m the one actually being gaslit- maybe they just didn’t like what they said anymore after seeing someone else restate it differently?
Gaslighting in my experience is when you remember what someone did or said but they deny it defensively. Sometimes making you question if your memory is bad and they are right. But when you remember clearly something has happened and they still deny it — you know that they are either consciously doing it or their memory is shit.
So in your case when people have a very aggressive reaction to you recalling something and you remember it — don’t buy into the nonsense.
The biggest thing about gaslighting is that many people who were gaslit have difficulty describing it.
I was gaslit so often and in those moments I identified it occasionally, but even now I have to put serious mental effort into finding a palatable definition for it — it’s almost an experience rather than a singular moment.
One of the biggest things people fail to realize is gaslighting is more often done as a way to defuse a situation, while covertly sublimating blame to the other party. It’s not just some simple tactic to make the person feel bad — it’s a holistic approach that questions the person’s entire memory or identity.
Reframing a situation is NOT being gaslit. Even if you’re in the wrong, honestly. Gaslighting is questioning the person’s memory and mirroring their own confusion back at them like you’re the one who’s lost so that they’ll internalize the confusion. Some of it is denying or lying, but those things in and of themselves aren’t the same — and it’s especially not the same if you’re not making a meaningful effort to trick the person.
For sure man
My ex listened to everything everyone online told her and divorced me because I was a “gaslighting, manipulative, narcissist with borderline personally disorder.” The main issue was we weren’t good at communicating and taking strangers advice online only made things worse. Best of luck to anyone in a relationship with someone who allows strangers to make up their either mind for them!
You're probably better off.
Knowing what I know now and continuing to work on myself, I can say for certain that I am.
Gaslighting and narcissist are terms bandied about so often they're almost relegated to platitude status.
YouTube "Psychiatrists" abound... I'm going to start a dental practice out of my garage on the weekends... Just gotta watch 16 more hours of videos for my degree... Relax ma'am I know what I'm doing I'm a premium YouTube subscriber...
That’s something a narcissist would say….
Oh wow this sounds like my ex wife. She spent months watching videos and tv shows about narcissism and sure enough, the more she watched the more she was convinced I am a gaslighting narcissist.
And she kept telling me that so much that I really started to wonder if maybe it was true. It took several months of therapy for me to realize that no, I wasn't, and that she was absolutely insane.
Yep, been doing my work in therapy as well. Glad to hear you realized it wasn’t your fault and that you’re not a terrible person. Best of luck to you on your future adventures!
If your diagnosed ur likely an unintentional asshole to others because of what is lacked. Not bad but the way a narcissist engages with people does not tend to benefit others. That's why there narcissist
I know someone that basically used this as an excuse to be a complete AH.
I benefit others by being incredible company. I am funny, intelligent, hot. I am the glue that holds our entire friendship group together and without me none of them would be friends or do anything remotely interesting or exciting. So I benefit people by my existence and presence.
Is this not the exact bias that people with NPD have, regardless of who and how they cause harm unintentionally to others?
The thing about people with NPD is that they harm others due to their inability to understand the perspective of others—when someone says you’re harmful to them, you aren’t likely to react with compassion, empathy or even critical reflection without jumping to how amazing you are and therefore how Incorrect the others are.
I’m not harmful to anyone. If they think I am, they’ve misinterpreted me and that’s their problem.
Narcissist's prayer:
That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
In satan’s name, f@$k em
Most of the time they won't admit to any of this, yet continue the behavior while slandering your reputation to make you look like the bad person or the problem. They will do all this to benefit themselves and uphold a false reputation of themselves to others without actually changing and doing said things they claim. It's just an excuse to be an abusive manipulative person. My mother does this and I've learned you can't feed into their games, don't acknowledge things they say or do because they feed off getting a reaction out of you. People will poke and poke then roll over and play the victim, acting like their actions didn't cause your response.
Reactive Abuse is their jam
I've learned it's best to not acknowledge them and pretty much ignore them. Works out really well
Agreed
Yeah I can relate to this 🤣
I'm sorry. Don't worry. You'll grow up.
I am grown up. I’m 38
lol... the delusion is strong with this one. I kid, but, this is actually the perfect narcissistic response, haha
Haha thanks. I think.!
ew.
narcissist aren't all that intelligent. Mostly needy individuals who can't accomplish anything for themself and instead lie about accomplishments to keep others around. Let's hear some actual achievements perhaps
I am actually intelligent though. I have an English degree and I am a qualified teacher. I work as a lecturer at a college. I’m also a musician and can play guitar, bass, drums, keys and do music production. I am very well read and arguably smarter than the majority of my inner circle.
I wouldent consider anyone who got an English degree to be smart. That's actually one of the worst choices one can make for their career. U could of read books on ur own and got a degree in something with an employable skillset. Teacher is gonna be the only thing u qualify for.
Well, I needed the English degree to train to be an English teacher so.
I wish you luck, English teaching pool is quite large and the pay is ass for the hassle of dealing with kids who likely won't appreciate what your teaching. Teachers get abused by society and the government but mostly English and history. Y'all should have easier lives but teachers get the short end of the stick.
Ha yeah for sure. Once I got qualified I actually moved into teaching Performing Arts for that reason. And I teach in a college so I don’t have to deal with annoying kids.
Yeah the way you just spoke gives me big red flags.
Good for you. What kind of “red flags”?
There's no point in having a conversation with you because you won't suddenly understand it. It's hard enough to get a point across to people who aren't narcissistic. Whatever I say will not change any perspective that you have. Your mind is set.
If you’re not able to articulate yourself in a comprehensible manner that sounds like a you problem.
I can't tell if you're doing a bit or actually believe the things you're saying. It's delusion.
You're hot, you're smart (you're a theatre teacher at a college LOL), you're funny, you're just the best thing ever!
Most people find that lame because it lacks humility. Lots of people are smart, lots of people are funny, lots of people are good-looking. Your high self-opinion(if you're actually a narcissist) is a coping mechanism for how fragile and vulnerable you actually feel and that is blatantly obvious to any well-adjusted adult.
Most people find it charming and funny actually. Everyone loves a bit of arrogance and self-assuredness.
And yes I am hot, smart and funny. That’s not me being arrogant, it’s just me staring actual facts about myself. Sorry if you can’t handle confidence because you’re so insecure about your own shit.
Very well said. Unfortunately it didn't get through to them and never will.
That's cool.
They're
Theyr not giving a shit about grammar
It's just my ocd.
According to the Cleveland Clinic between 0.5 and 5% of the U.S. population is a true textbook narcissistic personality. It's just a buzz word today and out of hand.
True, everyone and their ex is a narcissist these days. People love to throw the word around to describe anyone remotely abusive or not very pleasant. Not all narcissists are abusers and not all abusers are narcissists.
A narcissist believes they are greater than others. They are usually living in a world of delusion where they believe they are entitled to things they don’t deserve.
Gaslighting is tricking someone into believing something occurred when in actuality did not. For instance, someone could gaslight you into thinking you said something when you didn’t.
One thing I’d say is that these words get thrown out a lot. People tend to use these words to paint a narrative of being victimised. Whether it’s true or not, that’s the real question.
that’s not really gaslighting, if I can chime in here. Gaslighting typically is done with the intention of undermining the victim’s ability to understand reality, their critical thinking skills, their confidence, and their sanity. It builds a narrative where the victim of the gaslighting has created any present problems and any resulting abuse is their fault. Gets complicated because a lot of times this can be projection on the abuser’s end, and they avoid responsibility because the gaslit victim takes responsibility. Something to look out for- gaslighting does not stop just because you take responsibility, it will continue because the goal is to confuse and undermine you.
To clear up confusion I'd like to remark that neither of you are incorrect. Magari and Moist are both referring to gas lighting. Magaris definition refers to the literal act of gas lighting, while Moists definition refers to the overall "event" of a gaslighting situation. The distinction is fairly important as Moists definition refers to a situation in many or enough individual "gaslighting" events occured to create an sysmetic problem for the relationship. So you're both right. One is an act and one is the overall form of manipulation. I'm also not an expert, just referring to very basic internet definitions. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gaslighting It can be especially important in this context especially if the OP is considering whether or not they are actively in a state of manipulation or if they have done a few single events that were individual events of gas lighting but not necessarily part of an overall manipulation strategy. Which usually ends up that way anyways, but if you can catch yourself early enough you can prevent yourself from spiraling and using those gaslighting techniques as every day tactics.
Edit: One point is that by using a strict definition of gaslighting as being an extended form of manipulation over time can make it difficult to deal with the beginning. For instance, a person should be willing to make complaints about an individual example of gaslighting, even if it is not part of an overall manipulation strategy, especially if it is a sign that such a manipulation strategy is in place.
To also jump in-as a victim of someone who gaslit for a very very long time (I stayed 13years…)
I literally felt like I was going crazy. I’d tell my (ex) partner this and he’d just tell me that “you’re sick because normal people don’t feel/think that way “
I have adhd and asd -wasn’t aware of it at the time. I just thought I was broken.
He took advantage of that and my memory issues and used it against me for years.
I thought it couldn’t be him because he loved me so very much. It HAD to be me.
So OP if you’re feeling anything like what I’ve described-you may be the victim. If you’re husband is telling you the he feels like I’ve described above-it may be you who’s manipulating.
Contrary to popular belief- a lot of people with NPD or ASPD usually aren’t aware they have a disorder so they are not hurting you on purpose -it gets murky and I don’t want to go into too much here because I don’t know if it follows the conversation. I just jumped in.
thank you for clarifying
narcissism is a diagnosable mental disorder characterized by overinflated feelings of self worth and lack of empathy or sympathy for other people’s thoughts, feelings, and emotions. you can google it and look at the DSM-V definition (diagnostic and statistical manual for diagnosing mental illnesses). gaslighting is denying or changing a series of events and projecting the false reality onto another person. essentially, it’s aggressively telling another person that something either did happen or didn’t happen the way they remember it for personal benefit. a common trait of a narcissist. that’s great you’re in therapy and trying to work on yourself. i am concerned though that your husband may actually be the one with narcissistic tendencies.
Narcissists and Borderlines don't necessarily gaslight because they benefit somehow, they don't really think that way. Their mind simply split, as a protection mechanism. For example you can ask as politely as you can for your spouse to pick up her socks from the kitchen, because you have guests this evening, and they will split and ask you why you haven't washed dishes last Thursday before going to bed. They will feel attacked for not picking up the socks from the kitchen. That is part of their protection mechanism not to feel guilty for something they do, and avoid blame and criticism. It is a way to maintain the upper hand and also not correct their behavior. They will create chaos when the other person comes with any requests, no matter how benign they are, if they shatter their self delusional image of perfection, by throwing with mud on others.
based on the (textbook) definitions of narcissism given in these comments, we need to recognize that it’s a spectrum. EVERYONE has narcissistic tendencies. Sure, some are so narcissistic that they warrant npd diagnosis, but we all need to look in the mirror and identify the ways in which we need to grow in humility, rather than just pointing fingers and operating under the DELUSION that we are innocents.
Narcissism was named after Narcissis, who was so enamored of himself that he spent all of his time admiring his reflection. Ironic, then that narcissists hate having a mirror held up to their own behaviors.
And your comment is accurate. We all have narcissistic traits, it's normal and healthy to like yourself and want to take care of yourself.
My therapist said one time, if you were a narcissist -you wouldn't be worried you're a narcissist. You can gaslight and have traits without being a person with a full blown disorder, but likely your therapist will help shed light on that.
Only narcissist I've ever known sh*t gold and could do no wrong.
I was raised by a narcissist. He thought he is greater than everyone. He was fluent in lies and delusions to keep up his greatness. Anything tarnishing his self image was an act of war. He was never aware that is lies were obvious to everyone. He was physically and verbally abusive because he lacked the relationship and communication skills to achieve certain outcomes. I moved out of my parents home soon after it was legal for me to do so. I suffered years and even today I am hindered to some extent mentally emotionally because of my upbringing. I have difficulty with relationships of all kinds because I’ve just internalized my feelings for so long I fell behind developing the people skill. It’s actually difficult to love people to me.
There's a lot of internet pop psychology bullshit about NPD.
Long story short: we are people who struggle to maintain a stable and realistic sense of positive self-esteem.
That is it.
That is what a narcissist is.
It is NOT synonymous with asshole, abuser, gaslighter, cheater - although those behaviors may be more common among unaware/unhealed pwNPD, those are not what define the disorder.
Isn’t that definition what BPD is also? I’m diagnosed with BPD potentially NPD as well because I think every negative thing people say is about me
25-40% of pwBPD have comorbid NPD. Our disorders aren't that different at heart. 💜
BPD and NPD overlap a lot, so I'd say that you do your own independent research and think if it resonates or not. Again, don't let the label define you and your experience. And the last part is probably anxiety and insecurity (which is frequent in people with cluster B)
BPD is primarily a disorder of unstable mood than self image, the thing is having one of these aspects working dysfunctionally can have a domino effect on the other. Which can make them look quite similar. The internal process is different though and like the other guy mentioned, they are common to have together.
I’m pretty sure one of the diagnostic criteria for BPD is unstable self image, right? That’s mainly what my problem is, along with unstable mood and obsessive thinking patterns (I have ocd)
Yeah I would say the unstable mood is more prevalent though. There's actually discussion currently happening to rename it to "emotionally unstable personality disorder" or "emotional dysregulation disorder" because of this.
Well done. Good basic definition. They're quite pathetic people who have to build up a sense of (real or imagined) sense of grandiosity to protect their very fragile core self. They were often treated very poorly as children and haven't learned how to create a healthy self worth.
most likely if you are even worried about being a narcissist then you probably aren't one.
NPD is like they genuinely just hold themselves to an imaginary standard and think they’re better than everyone else.
They basically lack empathy and are completely fake. They’re bullies who pretend to be victims.
They gaslight, lie, and just are 2 face scumbags.
They’re about as emotionally intelligent as a toddler, I’d say borderline/actually antisocial is a good way to think about it. A selfish lying toddler.
sometimes the accuser is the narcissist ; you should both go to therapy just to be sure
if youre genuinely interested in seeking truth , you're probably not a narcissist
I’m starting to think that narcissism is just the norm.
to be honest i don’t know people who aren’t narcissistic
These questions can be answered on YouTube or Google but the quick answer is a selfish person that doesn't have empathy.
Gaslighting is when u change the history of something that happened in the past. This can make someone question their own sanity if you do it to someone enough. Pretty cruel. An example is if you took keys off the table and the other person asked if u took them and u say u didn't. If this keeps happening over time or changing the past repeatedly etc it can make that person question the past or second guess themselves.
If you're questioning all this more likely you're not. Most narcissist...and I mean pretty much all think they're fine and need 0 changes to themself. Most lack introspection but bc there are records online of ppl that are narcissistic and have looked into themselves it is possible. I'd start by watching vids on YouTube and see if you relate to actual narcissists or signs n symptoms of them on Google etc.
about 40% of narcissists actually do seek therapy (~2% of population is diagnosed, ~5% is expected to have it). for depression this is about 33%.
if you question you're a narcissist knowing the criteria, there is probably some truth to it as you are recognising you relate to the diagnosis.
True
People with NPD can and often do have empathy. Lack of concern for others is only 1 of a number of diagnostic criteria, not all of which have to be met to diagnose someone as suffering from NPD.
The most common feature of NPD is a feeling of grandiosity or being somehow special. Which seems to be born of a very fragile sense of self.
Because of this they rarely ever seek diagnosis or treatment because they feel there is nothing wrong with them, it's just other people that aren't up to scratch. Even if they do realise a problem, the fragility of their ego and severe sensitivity to criticism makes it extremely difficult to seek help.
When they do come across mental health professionals it tends to be as a result of substance abuse or some other unavoidable reason (crime, antisocial behaviour etc).
But people with NPD really can have normal levels of empathy. However, others still aren't likely to be as important as they themselves consider themselves to be.
Gaslighting is just a new term for bullshitting you. Lying for the sake of lying. To manipulate you into thinking a certain way.
Narcissists are people who only view others as objects to use for money or sex. They do not see a future with you. They only see you as something to use before moving onto to something better. A lot of women these days can be categorized as this.
That’s not what a narcissist is. A narcissist is a person whose entire view of the world is from the perspective of a false, grandiose version of themselves. Yes narcissists are highly transactional but so is everyone.
There's a difference between transactional and what I'm talking about. These people feel entitled to your goods and labor just because they exist. You only exist to serve them.
Yep, every interaction for them is about affirming their own fake greatness. It’s different from people who are just selfish because normal people can be humbled and learn to be better while narcissists can’t conceptualize a world that their false self isn’t the center of.
This is only one type of narcissist, and only one example of their possible behavior. It's not the definition of a narcissist.
Do you think that the social media age encourages, perpetuates and profits off of narcissistic tendencies in women ?
Like the whole "main character syndrome" that most women seem to be suffering from today?
Women are pursued by men a lot more than men are pursued by women. It used to be just villages, small towns, cities. But now, men are forced to compete men across the world for these women.
Wouldn't you be a narcissist if you had tons of women trying to sleep with you all the time? I regularly sign up to overseas dating apps. The amount of attention I get from women is insane.
Theres an interesting conversation to be had in how much self governance/self awareness must one have to not allow themselves to become a narcissist or act in such ways
Is narcissism a fundamental trait innate in human nature sitting dormant waiting to be expressed given the right conducive environment?
How much blame can you place on a narcissist? Is it a medical disorder or a feature of the human condition?
I think today its easy to see that this trait is easily exploited and taken advantage of much at the narcissists expense, regardless of whether they're even aware of it or would admit to themselves
Oh damn, thank you so much!! Now that I realize that being sexually desirable and receiving attention from men makes one a narcissist as long as they're a woman, I can finally seek the treatment I desperately need. ❤️
...I mean, if the shoe fits.
You said it, not me aha
Yes, self-awareness is such a beneficial thing.
Agreed, please practice having some.
If you asked that question to yourself.. you probably are not a narcissist.. Sure check with a therapist to confirm.
Therapy may be covered by insurance to some extent.
I tend to agree with this. OP is doing therapy and questioning their narcissistic tendencies, it’s usually a tell. True narcs don’t get therapists and question themselves like that.
You can’t be a narcissist if you stop and think “am I a narcissist bad person?” Because no narc would even consider it. So Op is fine
this is misinformation, about 40% of narcissists seek help (2% is diagnosed, 5% is expected prevalence). people with NPD do go to therapy and question what's wrong.
Someone posted this in r/narcissticspouses and it was very helpful: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4GEubrulLR/?igsh=dGtkNW9sdjhyMzhq
Not what Twitter, Tiktok or Reddit tells you.
It is a very very small percentage of the overall population and of that there is a very very small percentage that would be considered harmfully narcissistic
...that last part isn't correct.
And even if it were, that's not a real argument given the absolute devastation a true narcissist can cause. That's like saying you shouldn't worry about serial killers bc they're not very common.
But it’s true though, serial killers aren’t very common so you shouldn’t worry about them
Oh. You're a 21 yr old dude. It's cool. I get it.
Says someone who is either not a woman or a very privileged one. Lmaoooooo.
Of course you do, bc they exist! Lololol. How is that even an argument?
Because risk is relative and you don't have the resources to mitigate all of them.
You might feel that serial killers are particularly dangerous because the things they do are so titillatingly awful that they're prolific in the media. But you're much more likely to die painfully in a car accident or by cancer.
You can choose to be worried about serial killers, and it's not weird that you do. But it may be a level of emotional effort that is disproportionate to the actual risk (unless you are in a particularly vulnerable sub group, such as drug addicted, homeless or a sex worker).
It’s just statistics, there’s a lot of true crime content these days so people think they’re more common than they actually are. Media breeds paranoia. There’s a lot of content out there that women use to victimize themselves. Also a lot of prolific serial killers targeted men and boys, so it’s not just women.
If he's told you that you're a narcissist who gaslights, it's pretty much all but guaranteed that one of you is. Also, depending upon where you live, there's options for low income people seeking therapy. Where I live, my cities college runs a program that I was once able to get into, and I wasn't even a student. Or a lot more employers nowadays have employee assistance programs to where you can speak with a professional. Might be worth looking into you because if he is in fact the one gaslighting you, you need to know it so he can't take advantage of you.
My ex wife who cheated on me beat the shit out of me gaslighting and telling everyone I was the one who abused her...
Can you explain just one conversation you've had that made your husband say you're gas lighting or a narcissist?
It's a Greek myth. Nobody is a word. Let's pretend a person can be a word, and play this out. Ever see a Daffodil? They look pretty, but get droopy and die in springtime, just before the sun comes out?
People just get extremely numb to all their potential, and all of the things they could be thankful or proud about, and capitalise upon. It's a bad habit of living internally. A human being can absolutely entertain themselves and their own mind by being alone and doing nothing.
It's a good reason why people need people, to snap ourselves out of it. Our human thoughts are threat and opportunity based, and very visual. You can't be relied upon to pursue opportunity unless you feel some threat or external stimuli (the lack of, or action of love). The limitations of the human mind mean that you're unlikely to worry about non-immediate threats unless you get good at trying. People don't necessarily want to get good at trying. If you let them, people will feel threatened by direct threats, and their parent not giving them everything they need and want on top of that. We can absolutely do the minimum, we can absolutely die from it. We can absolutely try to make people we meet our parents.
Somebody who doesn't feel loved enough, and uses their mind to turn inwardly to look for an ability to love themselves. These are people in touch with, and perhaps, prey, to their emotions. Narcissus rejected all advances of love in his life, staring at himself in the water. In some tellings it is because he mistook the water for a lover, pulled a tantrum at not being able to be with himself or meet somebody like himself or whatever. In other tellings, he couldn't understand why nobody loved him, and tried to get to the bottom of it, stood gazing into a pool of water, looking for imperfections, frozen, until he died alone.
All this to say sometimes it's just not about us, and we're not the problem, nor it's solution. Self-importance is a relative term. If somebody calls another person a narcissist, generally they're saying, "this person isn't as important to me as they are to themselves".
When two people agree on who's a narcissist they're saying "we don't need this person". When a community agrees on who is a narcissist, the plans for their murder begin.
You aren't a narcissist because you are here trying to figure out if you are a narcissist or not. A person who is in fact a narcissist would NEVER even remotely entertain the idea that they aren't the greatest person on the planet and could do no wrong. It takes A LOT for a narcissist to admit they aren't perfect.
As for gaslighting, that is what your husband is doing by making you think that you are a narcissist. Gaslighting is when you tell someone that they don't know about something when they do. A very simple example, lets say you need to meet your husband at 10:30, so you take the bus and arrive at 10:15 to meet your husband. You wait, and at around 10:45 you see your husband get off the exact same bus (obviously he is late) and he looks around for you briefly then stands in a place "waiting" for you. You then approach him and he immediately says "I have been here for over half an hour, honey, why are you so late?" And he sticks to that "truth" adamantly and will not budge. Does everything he can to try and convince you that you DID NOT arrive at 10:15 and that he has in fact been waiting for you. That is gaslighting. Now people do gaslight each other ALL THE TIME (misremembering things mostly), however it is only really considered gaslighting when you do it intentionally to assert dominance and control over someone else's life.
First part is a harmful myth that keeps people from getting help. A lot of narcissists probably question if they are a narcissist when they see symptoms.
First part is a harmful myth that keeps people from getting help.
It's not really a myth when it's quite literally one of the diagnosing tools......
A lot of narcissists probably question if they are a narcissist when they see symptoms.
This would quite literally contradict the actual disorder. You are in fact the one perpetuating a misconception, the same one that OP is dealing with. OP might be an ass hole who has some narcissistic tendencies, but not actually be a narcissist. Everyone, EVERYONE has narcissistic tendencies to varying degrees, usually we just call them ass holes instead of narcissists. An actual narcissist, as in a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) does in fact find it hard to even entertain they have a problem. It is actually one of the most commonly expressed and identified criteria for the diagnosis. There are a total of like 9 criteria, and the inability to self-reflect is actually a MANDATORY criteria for the diagnosis.
Calling ass holes narcissists has become an every increasing trend that not only spreads misinformation, but also lessens the severity of the implication of actually having NPD. People with NPD end up becoming incredibly self destructive and try to take everyone around them down with them. By labeling every selfish ass hole as a narcissist, it makes it harder for someone who has NPD to actually be able to realize (they are capable of it, just not easily) that they do in fact have a problem.
Agree with everything you’re saying except i do think narcissists can question their own narcissism and that’s what helps them get diagnosed. Maybe I misunderstood what you’re saying idk
I am not saying they can't, I am saying it's not easy for them to do it.
Pretend for a second that you are someone who believes they can do absolutely no wrong and that you are better than everyone else. And someone (who you see as a lesser) says, "hey I think you are a a narcissist." You really think that is enough to make you, again someone who thinks they are perfect, stop and reevaluate themselves? Or are you just going to dismiss them as being jealous of how amazing and perfect you are?
True ok I thought u meant nobody who goes and gets diagnosed does so because they question themselves and I was like huhhh isn’t that how people get diagnosed. I think I’m a narcissist sometimes bc if somebody calls me a narcissist or accuses me of manipulation I take a step back I see what they’re saying ya know? To what extent it is true and to what extent it is because of jealousy or personal grievance
If you take a step back right upon confrontation, you are not one. It takes a lot for an actual narcissist to self-reflect.
Maybe I am a narcissist and I just took so many psychedelics that my brain is forced to take a step back lol. Psychedelics always show me the parts about myself that I don’t like and the parts about myself that I love. Without having had the negative experiences on psychedelics I’d probably be a much worse person.
What exactly are these boundaries that he’s being an impossible asshole about?
Because he could be the one gaslighting you, and because of his manipulation, you probably don’t see it.
Per Prof. Sam Vaknin, a narcissist is someone who failed to develop a sense of self when transitioning from 'child of a parent' to 'independent adult'. This has led to a weird 'shared fantasy' where they can't distringuish between themselves and the outside world.
Dr. Romani points out the difference between someone with OCD and a narcissist with OCD, is the narcissist will insist other people carry out the rituals that give them piece of mind, rather than carrying them out themselves. (Again, this is an indicator that the narcissist lacks a sense of self and see their environment as an extension of themselves)
I kind of have a personal checklist for determining if someone Im dealing with "Have enough narcissistic traits to become a problem"...
If they don't get the emotional reaction they want, they begin 'iterating' through different manipulation tactics.
Regardless how well you maintain the relationship with them, it always feels like they have something to be pissed about. (Shared fantasy and 'snaptshotting')
They seem to enjoy causing unnecessary drama (narcissistic supply / sadistic supply).
Narcissists don't suffer from cognitive dissonance. They can hold conflicting beliefs without issue, and this is one of the major contributors to why they're so easily triggered: even if you 100% agree with them its still possible to piss them off.
Gaslighting is when you remember something one way, but the manipulator insists it happened a different way.
Irl example:
Ex: "Do you ever think people without degrees are less than human?"
Me: "Why tf is this a thing. Why are you coming up with this!? Nah. Stop it."
A few days later...
Me: "Ok, what's going on with you? A few days ago you mentioned people without degrees are less than human. Where is this behavior coming from? You weren't like this a month ago."
Her: "WHAT!? Why would I say something like that!? That never happened!" Bullllllsh-t!
They 'retcon' past events to try to make you question your memories.
Gaslighting is purposefully lying or manipulating something so the other person feels crazy. For example, when one knows a situation happened one way and they are being called out on it they would just lie & say “That didn’t happen”. They do things that deny actual reality until the other person starts questioning it.
Both gaslighting and narcissism are terms though that are so overly used that they are diluting the horrific trauma they cause. Just because someone perceived a situation differently doesn’t mean they are gaslighting the other person, for example. It has to be where the gaslighter is doing it either to hurt the other person or to run away from responsibility for doing something wrong. It’s an incredibly horrific thing to do especially when done often. It basically says to the other person their feelings not only don’t matter but if they express them then the pain will be amplified ten fold because now they are hurt, completely alone in that pain and left to feel crazy for it. It’s a really dark form of manipulation and control whether or not the gaslighter realizes how badly what they are doing sucks or not. Do you lie to get out of situations where you know you were wrong? Do you constantly tell your husband “I didn’t say that” when you know damn well you said it. Do you try to fuck with him by doing mean stuff like moving shit around in the house and then when he questions it you say “Nope. It’s always been like this?” Those are the questions you need to answer yourself. If yes, then you are emotionally abusive.
As far as narcissism is concerned there are people with narcissistic traits or behaviors that are common with people with NPD yet they aren’t narcissists. They usually are just really selfish assholes & don’t think enough about anyone else to even know if others are being hurt by their actions.
Clinically a narcissist is about half a psychopath. They have concern for themselves and feelings for themself but not others. While a psychopath has no feelings about themself or others.
Most real narcissists and gaslighters have no willingness to ask if they are the problem or seek therapy.
However a real narcissist and gaslighter will certainly tell you that YOU are the narcissist and gaslighter. That's what gaslighting is.
social terms to win an argument and persecute someone
Do you or your husband work for pay?
Nearly every employer provides a benefit called the “Employee Assistance Program” or EAP.
It covers the employee AND anyone residing in the employee’s home.
They give six or more FREE visits at a time. You tell them ONE problem at a time and keep going back for each separate problem.
So when you call for an appointment- ask for help finding out if you are a narcissist. Then finish those appointments and call again to talk about gaslighting. Call again to talk about boundary setting. Call again to talk about the next bullying technique you have uncovered.
Gaslit is not what you think it is
Psychologist here. Narcissists, as others said, are people who have narcissistic personality disorder. This is defined in the DSM but you can’t really use the DSM if you haven’t been trained on it. You need a professional evaluation to be sure.
NPD is very rare. Personality disorders in general are. You most likely don’t have it. You can also have traits from the disorder without having the full blown disorder. He may just be trying to describe things he thinks are selfish, which is fair. Everyone is selfish at times!
Here are some traits, explained simply, that could indicate you are likely to have it if you were to get a formal diagnosis: 1) an inflated sense of self. So think of a person who maybe inflates their successes in an unreasonable way. A person who implies they teach at a university when really they are an admin staff there. 2) A very low self esteem. 3) If they have children, the children are often expected to dote on the parent, not the other way around. 4) Everything can be interpreted to be about the person with npd. So let’s say the person with NPD has a kid, and the kid is in trouble at school. The person with NPD is likely to get very defensive, as if their parenting is what is being discussed, not the kid’s behavior.
Hope this helps!
According to research it is people who cannot feel shame.
Shame is an important social emotion, it regulates behavior and modulates the social collective “good.”
Narcissists are raised by parents who are either abusive, absent or narcissists themselves. The child, lacking the ability to deal with such rejection and fear, creates a “false self”. The real self (the one who is deemed inadequate and shameful) is stuffed into a closet in their mind. The false self is created and because it’s not real, does not experience shame.
This is why narcissists can get so far ahead in life. All signals that they are “off the mark” are discarded and ignored. They are made of teflon. Notice how some famous people, politicians, etc believe they are above the law and blame others for their mistakes? This is the reason.
Narcissistic people are unaware of the false self vs real self and so tend to move on quickly when someone gets close to them enough to glimpse the real self. They also tend to move on when people stop believing their fake self and act accordingly.
Relationships with narcissists are difficult because they cannot change (they don’t receive signals that their behavior is hurtful). Any shame directed at them is amplified and directed right back at you. People who live with narcissists are often low on self esteem because their needs are never met, they are always in the wrong, and they have to put up with bad behavior to get even a little love
Just know that pop psychology is watered down. It's better to evaluate your relationship on the basis of mutual respect and communication rather than some standard promoted on the internetz or by your own peers for that matter.
If your husband is being a dick despite yall are trying to connect, then he's just a dick. Or your tolerance for dick-like behavior is diminished and y'all are no longer compatible.
It sounds like your husband is a gaslighting narcissist.
No narcissist would ever come here to understand themselves better, and projecting their own faults onto others is a staple of narcissists.
https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1519417-overview?form=fpf#a1
Gas lighting is not acknowledging someone's experience of the actual reality of something by directly denying or covertly ignoring the other person's reasonable concerns. It makes them feel crazy and as a result allows the manipulator to take control over them and what they think and thus how they behave.
Personally I hate the new uprising of people labeling everyone a narcissist ...Don't agree ..narcissist. Want an excuse to refuse accountability...narcissist. or quite literally anything else people just throw the word around like candy nowadays. I SPENT 7-8 years with my exwife trying my damn hardest to keep us going and to take care of her and her whole family and yet when I spoke out against it ...all of a sudden I'm a narcissist and I apparently only care about myself. It's all bullshit ..and more often then not the ones who claim others are narcissists are the actual narcissist!!
Look up DreamOfThe2ndAttention on Instagram. He talks a lot about narcissistic abuse and gaslighting, and how common and easy it is for narcissists to portray their victims as the abuser.
Maybe your husband is right but…. You said he’s trying to convince you that you are a narcissist? And gaslighting? And he doesn’t respect your boundaries ?
Your husband might be projecting. Perhaps he is trying to persuade you that you are the narcissist to cover for his own narcissistic behavior.
The fact that you are going to therapy, and working on yourself, suggest to me you aren’t a narcissist. Narcissists don’t do that. They don’t admit their faults, they don’t take responsibility, and they definitely don’t try to change in any enduring way.
Is your husband going to therapy? Can he articulate where his shortcomings are and what he is working on? Do you feel heard and listened to, and like your husband is trying to work towards your happiness in addition to your own?
If you answered no to all these problems, your husband is the narcisssts and engaging the emotional abuse of blaming you for having feelings and boundaries.
I doubt that you're a narcissist from this post. Narcissists don't second guess themselves. They don't wonder if there is something wrong with them, and they don't go to therapy.
What a narcissist DOES do is try to convince everyone around them that they are the problem-- kind of like what your husband is doing to you.
The fact that you are seeking help and asking for advice pretty much tells me you aren't a narcissist. A narcissist is diagnosed based on having Lack of Empathy (only caring about yourself with little, to no, regard for the feelings of others), a sense of entitlement (you think you deserve the best of the best and think others, spouses, children, or parents, should take care of you and your every need), inflated sense of self- exaggerates achievements or out right lies about achievements- need for constant admiration (usually a narc will juggle several lovers at the same time), and one of the main symptoms is thinking you know everything (which is why most narcs don't seek help. They don't think they need help)
I find that as a rule of thumb, the more often someone is labeling people around them narcissists, the more likely it is that the only narcissist around them is in the mirror.
A true narcissist doesn’t want the people around them to care about themselves/speak up for their needs/have boundaries, so as a result they see these behaviors as unacceptable in others so there must be something wrong with THEM. So they see “narcissists” every where they don’t see A VICTIM.
It's what girls call guys they want to leave to make everyone agree with them and give them sympathy
Are you capable of recognizing when you’ve done something wrong and apologize for it? If so you’re probably not a narcissist. All the narcissists I know can not accept responsibility for their actions and blame everyone else around them. They’re also typically master manipulators
If you're taking the time to ask about it and explore whether you are one or not, you're most likely not. A narc possesses no self awareness or capacity to explore any concept of them ever being the problem. I'd be willing to bet that he is though.. 🚩🚩
https://youtu.be/lLsH2NJD1Vo?si=B-wO__TwSo79wTK3 Check this link. The Dr in the video is very thorough and talks about what narcissism is extensively on her channel.
I told mine that I was lonely because I didn’t feel like I was allowed to have any friends outside our home and she told me I must be a narcissist. I was dumbstruck at the accusation. Am I? How could I be? My phones algorithm picked up the word and now…. I see I was being gaslit the entire time. Anytime I tried to express my feelings or say I didn’t like something that was happening, I was told it was because I was defective. I threw the word back at her later and her response was “how can I have sex with you if you call me that?” To me, that confirmed she was projecting. Only you can figure out your relationship dynamics and it could just be poor communication habits you’ve both inherited. That all being said… I don’t believe you are the narcissist if you are questioning if and how you are the narcissist.
There's a great podcast - InSight: Exposing Narcissism - that features two therapists reading letters from people with narcissists in their lives. There is one episode exactly about your question. I was married to a narcissist, and agree with others that if you're wondering if you are one, you're most likely not.
Narcissists don't like to be wrong, and they lack empathy for others. If you are worried about hurting your husband's feelings, you are not a narcissist. If you are willingly going to therapy, you are not a narcissist.
Here's a link to the podcast - https://insightpodcast.com
Best of luck to you!
Thats something a narcissicst would say.
My ex wife.
Every woman's ex boyfriend/husband.
Well a huge symptom of narcissism is projection. Narcissists often call other people around them narcissists, especially when they are held accountable by that person. So immediately this makes me wonder if your husband is a narcissist and he is projecting
Some people exhibit narcissistic traits, because we’re all wired to be a bit selfish for our own survival.
Someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder should be diagnosed by a psychiatrist, but, these are people who are image obsessed.
Think of a man who divorces his wife after 20 years because she doesn’t look as good as she did when they first met. Because her looking good makes him look good. But, he will lie and say she “went crazy” so that he won’t “look” like the bad guy.
They’re charming to everyone except those closest to them. Their spouses and children they treat like garbage but everyone else thinks they’re such a “nice guy”
I’m on here all the time as a psychiatrist saying that “narcissist” being misused is my #1 pet peeve in the WORLD. 😂 😂girls have gotten way into pseudo-psychology with attachment styles, love languages, and co-opting actual psychiatric terms and just bestowing them on exes that they need to blame for a relationship not working out. Men I’m sure do this too but it is MUCH more prevalent among women.
When you disagree and fight that does not make him a narcissist. A jerk is not a narcissist. I don’t even think people have the slightest clue what it means. If you argue a point and think you’re right or advocate for your own boundaries you’re suddenly a narcissist 😂.
Look in the DSM-5 there are 9 criteria and one needs to display at least 5 of them over the majority of their life from a young age to be classified a narcissist. It’s like 1/300 men and 1/800 women. Most of you will never date a narcissist so just chill
Narcissists don't typically wonder if they're the one who has the problem. Ever. For any reason. They blame shift everything on to someone else, and make absolutely sure too write a narrative to put someone else to blame. Even if they feel like crap on the inside, even in a forum like this they would more likely rant about their husband being an asshole.
It's possible for anyone to have narcissistic defense mechanisms. Sometimes, I think because we strive to prove to the world that we are worthy of love, and try to be high achievers, and garner recognition for our good traits, people can also project their own negative experiences onto us. The truth is none should have to feel like they need to prove that they are worthy, that probably comes from neglect and abuse, too, but when others see these bids for affection as a threat I think it can be because of their own paradigms as well.
If you don't know what a narcissist is it's more likely you have never met one. Including your husband. And that's lucky.
They are the devil, incarnate.
A narcissist is someone that reddit hates, usually a man.
Gaslighting is essentially lying about something having convinced yourself you’re not lying.
A narcissist knowing they are gaslighting is very difficult, almost unheard of. If you were both you wouldn't know. Basically think about all the times you were wrong. If you struggle to, that's a red flag for narcissism. Think about all the times you were wrong and you made your partners feel like it was actually them that were wrong for calling out your bs, that's a red flag you are gas lighting. That's the cliff notes version.
Can OP be a narcissist if she is concerned about her husbands comments and has scheduled therapy to understand herself better? Wouldn’t a narcissist just blame him as being wrong and tell him to see a therapist?
It means your probably don't have sex when he wants to, but you expect him to do things you want when he doesn't want to. Then you probably consider these two situations to be different and make him feel bad for even equating the two situations
This is so based and hateful. Way to be unhelpful.
What was hateful?
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There’s a big difference between someone who has narcissistic traits or acts like an asshole, and someone who actually has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Please don’t believe the media stigma, we’re not all abusive assholes.