www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-man-arrested-charged-making-threats-merriam-webster-inc-use-rcna25756?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma&fbclid=IwAR31YKHc8Vp-MaifGOXEwptC3DeNkdHH0RcBD2PUog2jYhkvAtBwNdKukwg
California man arrested and charged after making threats against Merriam-Webster, Inc. for use of gender-inclusive definitions
Legal JusticeWhat makes you state so definitively that the offender is a man?
They will charge this guy but let shoplifters off free.
What a stupid comparison.
Merely because it's in a dictionary doesn't mean it's factual.
What? A dictionary isn’t a book of facts it’s a book of definitions.
Trump voter
Put that in your Funk & Wagnalls.
Dictionaries and science are both descriptive, not prescriptive. This man would do well to learn both of those facts.
He probably doesn't understand those words.
”Readin' don't never not done nothing for not nonebody. Never not no one, didn't about no reason not never. And by God they never not ain't gonna will!”
This same exact dude will tell you the ‘N’ word is just a word, why you gettin so upset?
I think adding a defenition of “literally” to mean “figuratively” was way worse haha
The English language is a live language and it will continue to change dramatically overtime as our use of certain phrases, nouns, pronouns and verbs change overtime. Granted, it can be frustrating but if you speak to any historical linguist, they will find the frustration to be amusing given the historical precedence supporting the ostensibly “disruptive” changes in a language at any given point in the language’s history.
That's the standard riposte, yes. But this isn't a natural evolution of language. It's engineering by fiat from a self-selected, elite minority. I don't particularly care about it and CA guy is a dummy, but let's not pretend this is just natural course language change. Absent the tumblr-primed university gender theory wonks, no one would care to do any of it. Including most trans women, who are reasonable and don't think they're identical to biological women.
What we're seeing is the product of moral entrepreneurs engaging in weirdo copypasta activism. I personally think our language will bounce back. This is a fad. Fads pass.
Thanks Jordan. But agreed lol.
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2.1y
20 yrs when thousands are detransitioning and suing parents and doctors, hard to say.
Entry number 712341 in Things that will never happen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020
Lol "never"
Funny, because here it says only about 3% of trans people ever detransition and the remaining 97% are completely fine with their transition.
Or will you just wave around a single case as evidence of a mass wave of people de-transitioning?
Well you said never in 20 years but it's already occurring so idk why that's a tough to swallow pill. Also 97% you sure? I thought suicide was such a major problem with trans? If thats solved now great.
What is already occurring? Some major de-transitioning movement among the trans community? Are you seriously extrapolating from a single case that there is some major de-transitioning wave?
Furthermore, suicide has absolutely nothing to do with this statistic, and people who undergo sex-affirming procedures are far less likely to commit suicide.
Before you go around spewing your mind out online, make sure you actually know the statistics.
Lawsuits. Already occurring. Leave it to the trans lobby to misunderstand something and gaslight someone they're talking to lmao.
Christ alive, what are you even talking about at this rate?
You mentioned a single instance, and the lawsuits you refer to are exceedingly rare.
And now you are just pulling random crap out of nowhere and barely elaborating.
Whatever kid, I have more important things to do with my life.
Not condoning violence of any kind....but in order to have free speech...it has to to be free to EVERYONE...Even this jagaloon.
Free speech is a right that the government can't take away, it says nothing about people or private businesses.
He's free to say whatever he wants. What he says may have consequences, though. Threats are a vocalization of future violence. That's what's being penalized.
Agreed, but threats are not covered by free speech.
It would be great if..... You all deserve...... I wish someone would..... I'm paraphrasing...but looked to me like all of his threats were written like this..? Either way...a nutt job😁
“It is absolutely sickening that Merriam-Webster now tells blatant lies and promotes anti-science propaganda. There is no such thing as ‘gender identity.’ The imbecile who wrote this entry should be hunted down and shot,"
That’s one of his posts. We’ll see what the court says, but that seems fairly threatening to me.
Nut job for sure though.
I do agree that freedom of speech should protected though. Threats are a tricky grey area that our society has chosen to exclude from that protection though. For better or for worse. I tend to think better.
Same with clear and present danger.
That's pretty banal, honestly
Everyone is an it now, congratulations!
what a fucking hill to die on!
I disagree with the way reddit handled third party app charges and how it responded to the community. I'm moving to the fediverse! -- mass edited with redact.dev
Florida man frowns.
Seriously people just need to get laid or or get a job or both in that order.
Or both at the same time.
Prostitution.
Or at the very least, smoke a blunt.
As far as I can tell, it wasn't even changed, it was just appended:
1 a (1) : of, relating to, or being the sex that typically has the capacity to bear young or produce eggs
(2) botany : having or producing only pistils or pistillate flowers
b : having a gender identity that is the opposite of male
c : made up of usually adult members of the female sex : consisting of females
d : characteristic of girls, women, or the female sex : exhibiting femaleness
e : designed for or typically used by girls or women
f : engaged in or exercised by girls or women
g : having a quality (such as small size or delicacy of sound) sometimes associated with the female sex
If you really have an issue with trans people, there's nothing stopping you from continuing to use definition 1 a (1). And likewise, in 1 b, Merriam-Webster is just recognizing the common usage of female being associated with gender identity. To do otherwise would be to ignore the reality that language has indeed evolved in common usage.
This guy is literally threatening to kill the messenger.
Is the same definition used for the word male? Because that would be quite a logic loop.
From passing laws banning math books to this insanity. I say again, where I am and how did I get here?
Let the days go by
Let the water hold me down
Why give a shit about such meaningless bullshit. You don’t like them don’t use them. Simple. It’s not worth going to jail for
Because at some point you might be forced to use them.
.... which is worth going to jail to prevent?
Hardly what I said 😆
I mean who would actually enforce that?
Any job that includes writing. I get irrationally frustrated with they/them as a gender neutral singular in my work since it's plural and can impact the meaning of a legal document. He/she or one are more clear, but I've lost that battle at this point.
One of my non-profit clients has spent the last year developing their gender inclusive writing guidelines and employee handbook. Everybody on the videoconferences has their preferred pronouns after their names. I would prefer to be focusing on their mission rather than discussing internal gender dynamics and the possible fallout from an improper pronoun. Part of it has to do with the righteous indignation of keyboard warriors. IDK, it just feels like a lot of people who aren't stakeholders grandstanding for inclusivity points or something. Reductive rules made by committee. It can feel a little suffocating. I support inclusiveness, and am happy to use whatever pronouns people prefer, but think that the amount of energy focused on the issue right now is out of proportion with the problem (on both sides).
It’s fucking ridiculous
There have been cases in Canada. Just look up Bill C-16
If I am ever in a place where they try to enforce that pronouns bullshit I would rather not bother with the people who would make something out of it
There's a case where it's a father being charged because his daughter had an operation. Not always easy to dissociate from those people
Sounds like a very extreme example. And I bet the mother is behind it
The fact that the Justice system can be used by her in that way should be worrisome to every sane person
Oh yeah that is terrifying. There are plenty of things that need to be fixed and that is one of them
OH NO
Anyway
Who exactly is coming to force anyone to use a specific noun or pronoun? And what punishments will they dole out if not followed? And who will this apply to? Lots of really hard-hitting questions to be asked here...
The Marxists, the commies, the socialists, the fascists, the antifacists, the Christians, the Buddhist, the Muslims, the atheists, the black, the whites...
Anyone that you can tack a label on in the name of hate.
If you look at Canada you can see a possibility of how this could end up. Bill C-16 (aka the compelled speech law) forces people to use pronouns under penalty of imprisonment.
https://www.independentsentinel.com/father-jailed-in-canada-for-using-incorrect-pronouns/
Agreed. We cannot allow academics to be politicized or reality will become skewed. The people trying to spark divisiveness are hard at work institutionalizing problems with no solutions. A while back a bunch of English royals institutionalized a fallacy we now call "race." Which is absolutely not a thing yet here we are. Leadership in DC are all about creating problems to divide us.
The people trying to spark divisiveness
Says the person that is a part of the same party as the guy that made threats to a dictionary for being inclusive.
Username checks out
Don’t use the dictionary?
My knowledge transcends that of a common dictionary. I invent my own words and definitions: Merriam ain't got nothing on me.
I don’t see any point in the dictionry anyway /s
No one takes MW seriously anyway. Oxford does definitions based on actual etymology, science, etc., and doesn’t add all the slang and wokeness and whatever else. MW will throw anything in there if enough weirdos on the internet say something.
Pretty sure MW is the one that stopped defining literally the right way because so many morons use it meaning figuratively, for example.
Whoops Oxford has that definition, too. Guess you'll have to find a new source to justify being a curmudgeonly prescriptivist.
Linguistics are descriptive, not prescriptive. Regardless of your feelings, the word "literally" is now used so widely to mean "figuratively", even in professional settings, that someone wanting to understand that usage should be able to find it in the dictionary.
Are people morons for calling things "cool" when they aren't simply lower-than-average temperature?
I don't think using the dictionary was this cats problem.
No the pronouns. If he doesn’t like them don’t bother. It’s not worth all what he did.
Pronouns make his brain go dumb. Any pronouns.
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2.1y
If you use a pronoun in a definition, you include non binary pronouns.
For example, instead of saying he/she, you might say he/she/they, or even better, just use they. It functions as both a singular and plural third person pronoun in English.
They is plural. I know I've lost this battle, but we have a single gender neutral: "one"
As long as it’s just the dictionary and not like a novel where gendered pronouns help keep the story and characters straight.
I totally agree with you on this. I am an avid reader of the stories posted on r/HFY, and a couple times the they/them pronouns have honestly confused me, especially because the stories have aliens.
For example, when a character named Andy started being referred to as they/them, I had to go back and look for a description of Andy the alien/human. I thought perhaps this character was a group of aliens who shared a collective consciousness. Happened with a few human characters as well in other stories.
I have nothing against non-binary people (or aliens). I understand that it's the author's right to design and describe characters as they wish. However, it seems to be a new trend in (at least the HFY) writing, and not only seems forced, but also disrupts the flow of the actual story.
Sometimes when this character exists, the author will, after having used the they/them pronoun multiple times, halt the plot of the story and have an interaction where said character explains to the other characters that their sex is neither male nor female.
For aliens, I can imagine how this may be something common, but as for the human characters, I get the feeling the author puts them in to try to be more unique, or perhaps in order to appeal to a larger fan-base. Not really my style, but to each their own.
I'm with you. The nongendered use in writing seems impossibly imprecise:
They spoke with them and agreed they in the other room should be invited to join them and others at the wedding but decided not to demand they attend the reception, as their opinion of them wasn't particularly positive.
That is a mess of a sentence. I know it may seem extreme, but over the course of a story, or a novel, it all can pile up quick.
It’s “impossibly imprecise” because you wrote it that way. Its just pragmatics abuse in a scenario involving multiple subjects of the same pronoun. You’re intentionally refusing to use any names or descriptors, which exist specifically for this reason.
What if they're gay though
Only 34 years old and already so full of hate and ruined his life. Pathetic
Sad too, you know something made him that way. :(
His father for sure.
We can't say for sure.
Damn. Dictionaries are worse than I thought.
You got a laugh out of me!
Not Florida Man, that's surprising
Well what is California if not the Florida of the Pacific?
Arizona is West Florida, not California.
They won't stop moving here.
*Laughs in Seattle*
That’s probably the only similarity
I actually just watched this YouTube video about candy flavors and how the American standard flavors came to be.
Apparently back in the early days California and Florida had quite a bit in common as they were producing most of the fruits during the “American fruit rush”
Kinda interesting but yeah as much as California pisses me off sometimes I’ll take my chances here than dealing with the bath salt zombies.
Palm trees and drug addicts
Trumper gonna trump.
It’s so funny their quick show of wit was referring to non-idiots as snowflake. They are just as delicate but are also armed and/or violent about defending their beliefs.
They aren’t snowflakes, they’re just drips
No. I strictly identify as “they”. Don’t make me pull a California Man VS Dictionary on you😐
When the language is perceived by either side as a weapon this is the consequence. Not condoning just recognizing.
Singular they has been used as gender neutral in English since the 14th century. This is not new. This is not political. This is just simple grammar.
The right winged extremists are trying to oppress other people. Those people are saying, "Just let me do my own thing." But sure, yeah, those two things are equal.
I find it imprecise in legal writing since "one" or the name or a title (like "Buyer") does it without the confusion. I've lost this fight already, though. Interesting that criticism only began in the 1800s.
There is more of a need for a non-gendered pronoun now more than ever because of the internet. Pronouns are handy. There is a reason they are continually used.
When you speak to someone online, very often you don't know their gender. If you don't know gender, what pronoun should you use for when referring to them? What would be natural and accurate and fit the situation?
Some people like "he/she", but frankly "they" is simpler and more natural. Many people wouldn't even notice that I used singular they twice in the previous paragraph because it just flows. It feels right.
We need a non-gendered pronoun. The fact that it also shows respect to non-binary people is just a bonus.
Agreed.
Hopefully the judge throws the book at him
Not California Man, Conservative man. One is trendy, the other is insane.
They're laboratory mice Their genes have been spliced
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2.1y
Imagine choosing this hill to die on.
Orange County. Not surprised.
No no no. You send threats for their definition of “literally”
Also their definition of a sandwich includes a hot dog.
That’s so wrong. It’s clearly a taco
What's the context?
Look it up- one of the definitions is “not the literal meaning” and that makes me mildly upset
I don't know if it'll make you feel better or worse, but literally is only the most recent addition to the contranym family, language has been a disaster for as long as we've had it.
Stay hydrated.
Rest. Your body needs to heal.
Sip warm liquids.
Add moisture to the air.
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Stop trying
Nobody asked you
You KNOW that this dude heard about the definitions from someone else. There's no way in hell that someone this stupid has ever cracked open a dictionary in their entire life.
While this guy is an asshole and I don't agree with him at all, how is this an arrestable offense?
Welp we found the guy that's going around threatening everyone ;)
I threaten random people on the street daily
He stight up said he would “bomb your offices for lying.” ....allegedly.
That could mean anything come on now
Bomb: transitive verb "to attack with or as if with bombs"
your: adjective "of or relating to you or yourself or yourselves especially as possessor or possessors"
office: noun "a place where a particular kind of business is transacted or a service is supplied"
for: preposition "because of"
lying: adjective "marked by or containing untrue statements"
According to Merriam-Webster.
Inconclusive.
Did you read the article?
Tbh no ngl
Appreciate the honesty
My apathy knows no bounds articles are too long
You didn’t graduate from elementary school?
It took a few tries but i did eventually
Then why would you ever think to leave a comment if you don't know what you're talking about or can't be bothered to read past the headline?
Cuz i wanted to mostly
Threatening to murder people is breaking a law.
"So what are you in for?" "I ripped out a guy's spleen. You?" "Sent death threats to a dictionary publisher."
When eighteen-year-old anti-draft protestor Robert Watts said back in August 1966 "I am not going. If they ever make me carry a rifle the first man I want to get in my sights is L. B. J," the Supreme Court held that his words could not be interpreted as a true threat against the President.
My guess is the FBI felt pressured to make an arrest here but this case is not going to be an easy win for the government as it is difficult to prove what this guy said isn’t just rhetorical. Me wishing death upon another person, however evil and crude, is protected speech. This guy is a hateful piece of shit that deserves to be locked up hopefully they are able to prove he made real threats.
True, however in this case the threat was made directly to the potential victim, not a comment to third party. And the offense is only one count of interstate communication of threats to commit violence, which is pretty straightforward - either he did or he didn’t. He probably should take a plea if they offer him one.
You're not entirely correct here. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the laws about threats to life and limb is that they revolve around intent, specificity and reasonableness. If a court finds that you have made a credible threat on someone's life you can even be sentenced for intent to commit murder, which is a pretty serious offense. In the Robert Watts case, I imagine that the rhetorical and political nature of the threat is what protected him from prosecution.
I’m not a lawyer either and it’s entirely possible I’m wrong. But from the article which quoted the supposed threats they appear to be more like ill wishes I don’t see explicit threats where he is expressing his intent to commit harm or serious bodily injury. He is definitely expressing the wish or desire for harm to befall them so the government will have to prove that this qualifies as a threat and isn’t just rhetorical. It’s also possible that the article doesn’t have all the information and the government has additional quotes which are clear threats.
So he's being charged with interstate transmission of communications to injure the person of another provides for a sentence of up to five years in prison. I'm guessing it wasn't a crime back in lbj times, and frankly I think it's probably specifically protected political speech.
I think you can straight up say things that would be illegal or a form of harassment for private citizens, that don't apply to political office holders. Like you can mail Biden 100 letters daily that he's a piece of shit, he can't charge you for harassment. But you probably would if you're sending it to a CEO or business owner or some other powerful person
"said he would “bomb your offices for lying.” "
The others sound like ill wishes but the bomb one sounds like intent.
I missed this, that seems like the only possible credible threat
I would absolutely agree with that assessment but the article doesn’t provide the full quote so I can’t assume it has not been taken out of context. For all we know he said something like “I wish someone would bomb your offices for lying” which could then be argued as rhetorical speech.
His case hasn't been tried yet, so who tf knows?
Man, these type of people are getting increasingly stupid and increasingly dangerous.
All my lefties should get a gun
downright irresponsible not to at this point
Someone needs to be able to defend themselves against the loonies
Way ahead of ya 😉
Dito 🔫
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2.1y
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